It's a darned good thing...

[WG]

...that we didn't trade Bryson!!

If I were GW, I'd have absolutely no hesitations about starting Bryson vs. the Jets.

Henry has shown me NOTHING against 4 teams that he should have had 30 carries for 200 yards against. The man certainly can't be counted on to gain yards on the ground.

[RedEyE]

They didn't play him tonight (maybe 3 plays). Stewart sat out for the Lions as well.

[Novacane]

It's not Henry's fault! The running game has looked really bad by all the backs. I am an optimist but I am starting to get a bad feeling about this season. I was thinking 10-6 but I have changed that to 6-10 after watching the pre-season.

[casdhf]

Bryson did less than Henry....at least Henry held onto the ball

[JefftheBillsfan]

lets not forget that it already has been pointed out on a diff. thread that we are running outside too much which is better suited for bryson. once the season starts i would have to think gilbride will get henry his 20 carries between the tackles. if you want to talk a replacement for TH.....how about sammy morris?

[WG]

I'm thinkin' 5-11 or even 4-12 based on what I've seen.

Honestly, I didn't see the game tonight as I was busy trying to prepare for this trip tomorrow w/ a blown out knee. Everything took 3 times longer to accomplish.

But I went through the PBP and found little to get excited about.

Henry, while he may have had only 3 carries, only lost a yard on all three. He's 20 carries for 30 yards apart from the Minnesota game and 27 for 80 with it. He has a long of 17. Back that one single run out and he's 19 for 13 or 26 for 63 (2.4 ypc)

I'm not at all optimistic about any aspect of this team other than STs and Drew. But Drew's gonna get creamed when we finally play some good teams for real, w/o a running game.

I like Drew. He's really won me over so far and is easily better than what we had last year. But I still think we would have been far better had we used the cash to sign 2 DTs and another starting OL-man that it now looks like we need.

I really think that signing Chandler and making those changes would have resulted in a 10-6+ season. But as long as some think that getting a single position player is more important than shoring up the two lines, which is widely held as the key to winning games in the NFL, then I guess we reap what we sow.

Again, please don't misconstrue this as anti-Bledsoe b/c it certainly isn't. If Drew doesn't play well in the RS then this deal will have been a total bomb though. But what I'm saying is simply that the lines are more important than a single QB.

[Novacane]

Sammy Morris fumbled on the goal line! He better hope that does not cost him a job.

[Novacane]

I don't think it is that bad WYs. Once the O line gells and I think it will ( the talent is there) they offense will be good. 6-10 with a lot of close high scoring losses.

[WG]

"Bryson did less than Henry....at least Henry held onto the ball"

Maybe cas. But Bryson's had little time w/ the first unit. You can't judge one guy w/ the full compliment in there and another w/ 4,2,1,2 carries in 4 games w/ the 2nd team.

Henry, I've said all along needs to shake this inconsistency thing he had last year. He hasn't done it. Unless he comes out of the gates gangbusters v. the Jets, a team who's rushing D sucked last year, then he should be replaced vs. Minnesota. I don't care how well he played the first time vs. Minnesota. Not all teams have the cruddy D that Minnesota has. Most are vastly superior, especially those in our division.

If Henry doesn't put up against the Jets, then the Minnesota game will be the perfect game to check out Bryson.

[Cntrygal]

:eek: are you on painkillers??? :eek:


Originally posted by Wys Guy
I'm not at all optimistic about any aspect of this team other than STs and Drew. But Drew's gonna get creamed when we finally play some good teams for real, w/o a running game.

I like Drew. He's really won me over so far and is easily better than what we had last year. But I still think we would have been far better had we used the cash to sign 2 DTs and another starting OL-man that it now looks like we need.



:biggrin:

[casdhf]

He may have had little time with 1st unit, but what time he did have wasn't impressive at all. Combined, I hink he had 0 or negative yardage and that fumble. He's a change of pace back, nothing more

[WG]

So, what? Henry's impressed you???

I'm running on the notion that Henry would be among the worst two or three RBs in the league this season if he plays as he has.

Don't forget, last year he only had 3 or so good games. After that they all sucked for the most part.

No, Bryson at least needs to be given a chance. Henry running the way he has is gonna lose every game for us if he's allowed to carry the ball if he doesn't improve immensely immediately.

[mchurchfie]

I'll tell you what..with all of the wish-wash, with plenty of potential, running backs we have had in the past 5 years or so, it sure makes you appreciate Thurman Thomas that much more. Especially his vision for the holes. That is a weak point with all of these guys so far. The one with the best vision for the hole, in my opinion, is Huntley. He very well could work himself into a starting role as the season goes along. he is also a better receiver than Henry. Bryson is a good receiver also, but has really bad vision and anticipation of the hole and tends to bounse it outside too much. I agree with casdhf, he is a good change of pace runner.

[Patrick76777]

Don't look at the stats....watch the game. Henry did his usual -2 and 0 yard carries. Bryson didn't put up fantastic numbers but you could tell the difference when he was out there. He hit the hole hard, ran well up the middle and outside and made a couple of nice catches. problem is, we didn't run the ball nearly enough. This team wants to throw the ball and it shows. We need to stick with the run game. IMO, far to much 1st down passing. We need a guy (Bryson) to get at least 3 yards on 1st down and shorten the field.

[Patrick76777]

My main point is that stats lie. If you watched the game you noticed that Bryson was clearly the better player last nite.

[lordofgun]

Can I change my mind about Bryson again? :D

[Patrick76777]

Henry had one good drive all preseason. Against Minn when he ran right up the gut. I think that's the only thing he can do. He'll hurt us. Remember this guy is not a first round draft pick. We were hoping to find a gem and I don't think we did. give the ball to Bryson.

[lordofgun]

It doesn't look like we're going to be running much anyway. We don't need any running backs. Just cut 'em all.

[doug45]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
I'm thinkin' 5-11 or even 4-12 based on what I've seen.



You may be correct, I was thinking maybe 8-8 or even better but at this point 8-8 would be pretty good.

[Patrick76777]

good point, penalties have put us in alot of 1st and 2nd and longs. This caused us to pass often early. Thus hurting many of the running stats.

[lordofgun]

I still think anything short of .500 will be a disappointment.

[Patrick76777]

Originally posted by doug45




You may be correct, I was thinking maybe 8-8 or even better but at this point 8-8 would be pretty good.


Don't believe it. We'll be rough early, but it gets easier later on in the season. Look for a slow start and a VERY strong finish. Don't be surprised to see a 2-3 start. But a finish around 9-7. Which will put us in a nice position for next year. Of course that's just my thought. I've always said it. Not much separates the good and the bad in this league. Momentum is huge. Luck is bigger. Anything can happen.

[lordofgun]

Originally posted by Patrick76777
Anything can happen.

Pats proved it last year.

[Patrick76777]

Yes....not to sound hooky but they did. And they did it with Schemes and luck. I'm not even looking for a Superbowl this year. But there is NO reason why this team can't make the playoffs. With Drew as our QB, we'll have a chance to win ANY close game. Plus we're not the only teams with weaknesses. They all have them. We just watch 4 absolutely meaningless preseason games and start thinking we're the worst team in the league.

[casdhf]

Morris was better than Henry and Bryson. Maybe he should be the man

[colin]

Wys, you really need to stop trying to analyze preseason games you did not even see. We had so many first down penalties that we could not run, and it was preseason, the games don't count you know.

You should especially stop trying to justify some stats like Bryson's numbers (did not play with the 1st team etc.), while taking others at face value.

Preseason, does not count.

[justasportsfan]

If no one should count preseason then why are they saying we are 0-4 :D

[timfromjersey]

hey,

Maybe....we should let Larry Centers run the ball! Yeah... that's the ticket. At least we know he's good for 3.4 ypc.

You guys might be overexerting your thinking processes and hitting the panic button a little to early on this one.

Look, with the addition of new offensive lineman via FA signings and draft, plus the unsettled condition of whose playing where because of injuries and retirements, if you add a new offensive coordinator to the mix, it means your just gonna have to wait for thing to come together, no?

There are a lot of questions with this team and the preseason is not going to provide us with the answers.

We should have maintained quarded optimism from the get-go. I'm shooting for a late season push to 9-7 which may or may not make the playoffs.

[Butch]

I am still waiting for someone to make the case that Bryson has proved to be a better option than Henry.

[HenryRules]

Don't hold your breath Butch. It can't be done. I'm still waiting for someone to make the case Bryson is better than Huntley.

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
I'm running on the notion that Henry would be among the worst two or three RBs in the league this season if he plays as he has.
First, if Bryson plays as he has, he would be far and away the worst RB in the NFL - 1.9 ypc?? ouch. That's .5 ypc worse than Henry if you take away Henry's best run. And if you take away Bryson's longest carry, which seems to be acceptable to do with TH according to everyone, Bryson has a great average of 1.3 ypc.

Second, how could Henry be the second or third worst in the NFL. As a rookie and while missing the better parts of 4 games, he still finished 23rd in rushing yards behind last year's line. That doesn't make him great at all, but with improved line play (which hopefully we will eventually see) and improved playcalling (which we have already seen), I can definitely see Henry up in the top 15 or so in rushing yards.

Third, as far as Henry having his best games against the worst defenses, how is that any different than Bryson? His big games came against Atlanta, who gave up almost 5 ypc and the Jets who gave up 4.5 ypc.

Finally, there were two defenses last year that both Henry and Bryson started against - the Jets and the Dolphins.
Henry's stats - 38 for 200 (5.3 ypc) and 1 TD.
Bryson's stats - 40 for 123 (3.1 ypc) and no TD's.

In case you're curious, Huntley also had one game each against the Jets and Miami. His numbers:
26 for 101 (3.9 ypc) and no TD's.
As I've been saying all along, looks like it should be Henry then Huntley with Bryson out of the picture, not Henry then Bryson and definitely not Bryson then Henry.

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
Not all teams have the cruddy D that Minnesota has. Most are vastly superior, especially those in our division.


I disagree with the statement that our division is especially strong against the run.
The Jets gave up 4.5 ypc last year, so they would have to improve a ton this year just to be respectful, and I don't think they've done that.
New England gave up 4.3 ypc and I don't think their defense has improved much at all.
Miami gave up 3.9 ypc and again, I don't think their D is remarkably better than last year's.

I'd say that the AFC West, AFC North, and the NFC East all have better rush D's than the AFC East and most of the other conferences are at least competitive with ours. The AFC East is at best in the bottom half in rushing defense and at worse possibly last.

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by Wys Guy

No, Bryson at least needs to be given a chance.

What has Bryson done to deserve this chance?
In comparison to Huntley, he has done nothing at all (this preseason or in his career).
Compared to Morris, Bryson has done worse this preseason, and similary overall - except Bryson is older and has already been beaten out for a shot at the starting job by Morris (two years ago).
Perhaps Henry should be replaced, but if so, if the Bills want to have any success at all, Bryson is the last guy I'd want to be replacing him.

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by Patrick76777
My main point is that stats lie. If you watched the game you noticed that Bryson was clearly the better player last nite.

Bryson had 3 carries and fumbled the ball. IMO, hanging on to the ball is one of the most important qualities for a starting back. I was not impressed with any of the backs last night, including Bryson.

[timfromjersey]

HenryRules,

I have to disagree with your statement that the Jets have done nothing to improve their rushing defense.

They got back Jason Ferguson, who is a load at nose tackle and they got Sam Cowert.

They are thin on defensive line though and haven't squared away their "3 technique" tackle position yet, so they are far from perfect.

[HenryRules]

Tim, I agree the Jets defense has improved, and I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

What I meant was that they hadn't improved enough to be in the top half of the rushing defenses (what I consider to be a respectable rush D).

[LtBillsFan66]

Forget about Bryson, we got McGahee now.

[LtBillsFan66]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
I'm thinkin' 5-11 or even 4-12 based on what I've seen.


lol

You are a pessimist wys!