Whatever happened to Turk?

[Mr. Miyagi]

I thought he knew what was wrong with our offense last season, and that his playcalling will be smart and aggressive, and will make proper adjustments by the way each game goes.

This is what he told us before the season, and what he showed us in the first 6 games.

Then he turned into Steve Fairchild.

WTF happened?? A guy just doesn't change like that.

[OpIv37]

he probably got Dicked.

[patmoran2006]

I dont know.. but the mere fact that Jauron admits to making the playcall in the Jets game shows he took duties away from Turk.

That combined with speculation that Trent Edwards is not a fan of Turk probably spells doom for him.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Why isn't Trent a Turk fan?

He can't pronounce his name like Marshall Faulk and Emmitt Smith?

[patmoran2006]

I have heard more than once that Trent and Turk do not see eye to eye.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I have heard more than once that Trent and Turk do not see eye to eye.
I wonder why that is.

[Mitchell55]

I thought he knew what was wrong with our offense last season, and that his playcalling will be smart and aggressive, and will make proper adjustments by the way each game goes.

This is what he told us before the season, and what he showed us in the first 6 games.

Then he turned into Steve Fairchild.

WTF happened?? A guy just doesn't change like that.




Turks playcalling is around Dicks coaching style. Dick is conservative so the playcalling has to be conservative. Dick also doesnt give Turk any freedom at all.

[madness]

That's why. Trent wanted Turk to free himself from Dick.

[justasportsfan]

I thought he knew what was wrong with our offense last season, and that his playcalling will be smart and aggressive, and will make proper adjustments by the way each game goes.

This is what he told us before the season, and what he showed us in the first 6 games.

Then he turned into Steve Fairchild.

WTF happened?? A guy just doesn't change like that.


all the aggressive talk he did in the offseason eventually meant, he'd get aggressively conservative and aggressively predictable.

Fairchild tried to run a Martz system without the right personel. Turk was the opposite, the tried to run a dink and dunk system that made Lee Evans useless running short routes.

[Mr. Pink]

Here's what happened to Turk.

An injured rattled Trent Edwards and JP Goneman.

When Trent was competent and consistent we looked great...when he wasn't, we looked terrible. When that bum who has no job anymore was back there, we looked terrible.

[justasportsfan]

When Trent was competent and consistent we looked great.... vs. weak teams. Early in the season teams didn't have much tape on Trent and Turks system. Eventually they figured them out. Hell even Stevie Wonder knew when we were running or when we were passing. He was preditable. He barely knew what playaction was.

Turk was so predictable that the only way he could change things up was to steal a play here and there from the fins or Panthers as the season went on.

[justasportsfan]

Trent has stated publicly that teams would show them something different that they didn't gameplan for. Who's fault is that, The players? Who job is it to make the adjustments on playcalling on gameday when it happens, the players?

Was it the players fault when someone called to run the ball with 30 secs left in the first half last sunday, The players? That was absolute proof that coaches are in charge of putting players in situations to succeed BY MAKING THE RIGHT CALLS.

[Mr. Pink]

vs. weak teams. Early in the season teams didn't have much tape on Trent and Turks system. Eventually they figured them out. Hell even Stevie Wonder knew when we were running or when we were passing. He was preditable. He barely knew what playaction was.

Turk was so predictable that the only way he could change things up was to steal a play here and there from the fins or Panthers as the season went on.


Sure they were weak teams...but you can only beat who you play.

To simply dismiss how well he and the offense looked in the first six weeks, outside of AZ, does the team a great disservice

You want to throw the weak teams out of the equation, can I throw the good teams out? Can I simply dismiss that we looked like crap against the Pats in the first meeting, because they're good? Or the Phins? Or the Jets?

Apparently the Chiefs and Broncos missed the film sessions to figure him out though.

[OpIv37]

Trent has stated publicly that teams would show them something different that they didn't gameplan for. Who's fault is that, The players? Who job is it to make the adjustments on playcalling on gameday when it happens, the players?

Was it the players fault when someone called to run the ball with 30 secs left in the first half last sunday, The players? That was absolute proof that coaches are in charge of putting players in situations to succeed BY MAKING THE RIGHT CALLS.

don't forget using 6'6" Hardy as a decoy and throwing to 5'9" Lee Evans or 5'-3" Roscoe Parrish in the red zone. Or constantly getting plays in late which forces the use of timeouts. Or any number of other transgressions.

Does the QB play suck? Yes. But don't let that mask the coach's faults.

[Jan Reimers]

Everything Dick touches dies a slow, painful death. RIP, Turk.

[Mr. Pink]

Trent has stated publicly that teams would show them something different that they didn't gameplan for. Who's fault is that, The players? Who job is it to make the adjustments on playcalling on gameday when it happens, the players?

Was it the players fault when someone called to run the ball with 30 secs left in the first half last sunday, The players? That was absolute proof that coaches are in charge of putting players in situations to succeed BY MAKING THE RIGHT CALLS.

Trent has said a bunch of idiotic things thus far which I'm not happy about. You posted something else he stated earlier in the year about him not taking accountability for his own actions if I remember correctly...

Here's another example. "oh oh oh, well I completely sucked because, uh uh uh uh, well, uh uh uh, that's not the game tape I studied." Teams don't just change their philosophy and scheme for one game. What Trent saw is what other teams saw too. If he can't process that info, that's on him, not the coaches.

And about that run call...there was plenty of time to run the ball one more time, run the players off and get the FG unit out...and kick the FG before time expired. The refs stated that they had a ball ready to be spotted with 9 seconds left. Plenty of time man...remember when Denver beat us in week1 rushing their FG unit out with time running out? They didn't have a problem. Oh wait, that's because their players aren't undisciplined morons who decide playing a game of grab ass with the opposition is more important than scoring points.

Which goes back to my point that's held firm for weeks/months now....other teams can execute simple basic calls...what we did Sunday isn't something that has never been done before, we just can't execute it. Or we run QB sneaks on 4th and 1 and watch either QB fumble...other teams do that. We run a rollout pass that Losman fumbles away and we lose. Other teams throw in the same situation without problems. We run a 4th and 1 FB dive that got blasted as a call, yet the very next week Miami ran the same play and succeeded. Other teams get into what they consider is FG range, run three times to run clock and make the other team take TOs....yet Dick does this vs Cleveland and gets blasted for the choice all over this board for it.

We simply cannot execute elementary basis football 101 decisions. That's not coaching...that's a combination of heart, desire, work ethic and talent.

[Mr. Pink]

don't forget using 6'6" Hardy as a decoy and throwing to 5'9" Lee Evans or 5'-3" Roscoe Parrish in the red zone. Or constantly getting plays in late which forces the use of timeouts. Or any number of other transgressions.

Does the QB play suck? Yes. But don't let that mask the coach's faults.


Yeah, about that.

One week we throw that fade to Evans and he makes a highlight reel catch and everyone is clamoring oh what a great call, great catch, great play, great execution. Sweet!

Then we try the very same play and Losman doesn't throw the ball to the proper spot and it's a bad play call.

[justasportsfan]

don't forget using 6'6" Hardy as a decoy and throwing to 5'9" Lee Evans or 5'-3" Roscoe Parrish in the red zone. Or constantly getting plays in late which forces the use of timeouts. Or any number of other transgressions.

Does the QB play suck? Yes. But don't let that mask the coach's faults.

We drafted Hardy because of his height but instead we call a fade out for Lee in the REDZONE vs. a taller cb? ? The wasn't genius, that was stupid. Lee never had an advantage in that situation. If it was 50 yards out thats a different story.

don't know why some people here can't see that.

[justasportsfan]

Yeah, about that.

One week we throw that fade to Evans and he makes a highlight reel catch and everyone is clamoring oh what a great call, great catch, great play, great execution. Sweet!

Then we try the very same play and Losman doesn't throw the ball to the proper spot and it's a bad play call.
read my reply to OP.

[justasportsfan]

Teams don't just change their philosophy and scheme for one game. .
haha! WRONG! The PATS do it all the time and if it isn't working they know how to make gameday adjustments. You should watch football sometime.


And about that run call...there was plenty of time to run the ball one more time, run the players off and get the FG unit out...and kick the FG before time expired. The refs stated that they had a ball ready to be spotted with 9 seconds left. Plenty of time man...remember when Denver beat us in week1 rushing their FG unit out with time running out? They didn't have a problem. Oh wait, that's because their players aren't undisciplined morons who decide playing a game of grab ass with the opposition is more important than scoring points..


wow! You ar so obviously clueless. Dicipline if the coaches responsibility. It's simple basic common knwledge you can't grasp?


Which goes back to my point that's held firm for weeks/months now....other teams can execute simple basic calls...what we did Sunday isn't something that has never been done before, we just can't execute it. Or we run QB sneaks on 4th and 1 and watch either QB fumble...other teams do that. We run a rollout pass that Losman fumbles away and we lose. Other teams throw in the same situation without problems. We run a 4th and 1 FB dive that got blasted as a call, yet the very next week Miami ran the same play and succeeded. Other teams get into what they consider is FG range, run three times to run clock and make the other team take TOs....yet Dick does this vs Cleveland and gets blasted for the choice all over this board for it.

We simply cannot execute elementary basis football 101 decisions. That's not coaching...that's a combination of heart, desire, work ethic and talent.

we can't execute because we don't have the coaches that know how to make players execute. It's that simpe. If you don't understand that you're beyond help.

Like I've stated, Bobby April can make his players execute for the most part no matter who they are. He's the only proven coach on this team and his unit has been the only CONSISTENT thing here for years.

[Mr. Pink]

read my reply to OP.

So was it a bad call when it worked too?

If the ball is thrown properly by Losman in the situation, it has no chance at being picked off. It was a terrible throw where only the DB had a chance to make a play on the ball.

[Typ0]

don't forget using 6'6" Hardy as a decoy and throwing to 5'9" Lee Evans or 5'-3" Roscoe Parrish in the red zone. Or constantly getting plays in late which forces the use of timeouts. Or any number of other transgressions.

Does the QB play suck? Yes. But don't let that mask the coach's faults.


those passes were called but the choice on who to throw to was done by the QB. It wasn't the coaching staff calling decoy plays. The playcalling has not at all been conservative and I like the way the games have been called for the most part. But don't forget the QB is making a lot of choices on the field based on what the defense is doing on that particular play...and our QBs have made some damn poor choices. You can't just throw the coaches under the bus because the QB is playing with his head up his ass or his name is Lossman.

Just like the fated QB rollout call that lost the JETS game...well it was really a quick pass to the fullback in the flats. JP is the one that decided to do the rollout and turn the ball over there. It makes me sick how so many people are just looking for a scapegoat instead of looking at the problem....and then they are going to be pacified by a coaching change. Maybe that is the problem with this team and not RW at all! Yeah, he's too preoccupied with the marketing not realizing that will all fall into place by concentrating on fielding a winner...but the truth is his preocccupation is because the fans respond to that crap!

[DraftBoy]

haha! WRONG! The PATS do it all the time and if it isn't working they know how to make gameday adjustments. You should watch football sometime.



Gameday adjustments are not the same thing as what Trent was speaking to or what FTY was talking about. They were talking about philoophical changes in the way the D played. I dont buy that Trent didnt see that on the tape. You got countless hours of tape to study, and you're telling me that you did your due diligence and still you got saw all new stuff? I can't buy that, I think part of its on the coached and part of it is on Trent.

[justasportsfan]

So was it a bad call when it worked too?

If the ball is thrown properly by Losman in the situation, it has no chance at being picked off. It was a terrible throw where only the DB had a chance to make a play on the ball.

It was a bad call when you call it in the redzone when your wr is smaller than the cb. Lee is a speester that is great at stretching the field. Not in the redzone.

[justasportsfan]

Gameday adjustments are not the same thing as what Trent was speaking to or what FTY was talking about. They were talking about philoophical changes in the way the D played. I dont buy that Trent didnt see that on the tape. You got countless hours of tape to study, and you're telling me that you did your due diligence and still you got saw all new stuff? I can't buy that, I think part of its on the coached and part of it is on Trent.

Dick agreed with Trents assesment.

I'm sure Trent saw something but problem is, who tells Trent what to do in practice and what to look for.?Is it not the coaches?

The difference between Cassel and Trent is that Cassel has better coaches even though Trent has more experience.

Anyone who thinks Trent would be the same qb under BB is clueless.

[DraftBoy]

Dick agreed with Trents assesment.

You can't tell me that Trent is less experienced than Casel that he doesn't know what he sees. The difference here is that Cassel has a better coach than Trent.

Anyone who thinks Trent would be the same qb under BB is clueless.


Of course Dick agreed thats his job, who in their right mind throws their own QB under the bus?

Who is talking about Cassel? Stay on the topic, don't try and bring other points in to help support your own thesis. The fact is that no team changes their entire philosophty from time to time, so Trent saying they did something he hasnt seen before means that either he didn't do the tape work, or the coaching staff didn't give it to him. Im betting its a little of both.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

For once I agree with Justasportsfan, Turk is exposed as why he was merely a QB coach for so long.

He took over Fairchild's system, opened up more (like giving the QB audible option) and runs with it. During the course of the year I can see that he crossed out plays that doesn't fit our QB and those we don't do well.

You can see even in a bit of raiders game and more obvious in Rams game that teams started to catch on. Against weak teams, we can still execute well. But overall, we have never added any meaningful twist and changes making defenses to scratch their heads. In the meantime, the defenses are getting better and better against our known plays and schemes. How many times did you see there are guys having a clear run at our QB without having anyone assigned to block them at all? Now compare that to our own defense and see how many times we get that kind of chances (and in league wide)?

Getting play coming late simply means indicision on play calling, which I somewhat expected out of a 1st OC, but I expected him to get better, not worse.

I agree with others that I see Edwards got a little tired of Turk at the end. And I believe Jauron tried to take some of the playing calling over to himself because of that. The problem is the OC designed the plays. There is not much a HC could do in certain situations. Often it makes it worse (delay).

Looking back for Jauron, he knew he had a problem with Turk's system in the mid to late season. There isn't time to invent new wheels. So he started to participate in play calling, which I'm not sure helped or made it worse.

[justasportsfan]

Of course Dick agreed thats his job, who in their right mind throws their own QB under the bus?

Who is talking about Cassel? Stay on the topic, don't try and bring other points in to help support your own thesis. The fact is that no team changes their entire philosophty from time to time, so Trent saying they did something he hasnt seen before means that either he didn't do the tape work, or the coaching staff didn't give it to him. Im betting its a little of both.


SO it falls into my point. Its the coaching. Seems to me Dick is caught between his annointed OC and his annointed QB who don't see eye to eye. You need to tell guys like FTY it is coaching.

I was talking about Cassel to prove that coaches can make adjustments based on who their player is and his background , experience or lack thereof. The can device a plan every week depending on the team they are playing and make gameday adjusments if they have to.

[DraftBoy]

SO it falls into my point. Its the coaching. Seems to me Dick is caught between his annointed OC and his annointed QB who don't see eye to eye. You need to tell guys like FTY it is coaching.

I was talking about Cassel to prove that coaches can make adjustments based on who their player is and his background , experience or lack thereof. The can device a plan every week depending on the team they are playing and make gameday adjusments if they have to.

No its not all coaching you are choosing to excuse Trent for any potential fault and assume its coaching. Im not willing to make that concession. Its the fault of both the player and the coaches. Not merely just one of them.

[Mr. Pink]

SO it falls into my point. Its the coaching. Seems to me Dick is caught between his annointed OC and his annointed QB who don't see eye to eye. You need to tell guys like FTY it is coaching.

I was talking about Cassel to prove that coaches can make adjustments based on who their player is and his background , experience or lack thereof. The can device a plan every week depending on the team they are playing and make gameday adjusments if they have to.

And you fail to see my point.

It won't matter who the coaches are until you do a serious upgrade and overhaul to the scouting and GM departments.

In order for coaches to look good, you need to have talent that can compete week in and week out. When you have subpar talent, some weeks they'll play over their head, some weeks they'll play under their head and others they're "they are who we thought they were!"

[justasportsfan]

No its not all coaching you are choosing to excuse Trent for any potential fault and assume its coaching. Im not willing to make that concession. Its the fault of both the player and the coaches. Not merely just one of them.
nope I never did excuse Trent as a mtter of fact I blamed him for games he's played badly. However it's also not fair to say the coaches don't have a hand in his failures which is what I've been arguing with both FTY and TD. They think that lack of talent is the bigger problem. I say it's coaching.

Lynchs nos. are mostly because of his talent. His success is not because we have a great running scheme but simply because he has the knack of not going down and move the ball when the D has him stopped.

Bring in an OC like Josh McDaniels who knows how to use whatever players he has left on his O and you'll see a better offense from our guys.

[thenry20]

he probably got Dicked.

ROFL!!!


:rockon:

[thenry20]

those passes were called but the choice on who to throw to was done by the QB. It wasn't the coaching staff calling decoy plays. The playcalling has not at all been conservative and I like the way the games have been called for the most part. But don't forget the QB is making a lot of choices on the field based on what the defense is doing on that particular play...and our QBs have made some damn poor choices. You can't just throw the coaches under the bus because the QB is playing with his head up his ass or his name is Lossman.

Just like the fated QB rollout call that lost the JETS game...well it was really a quick pass to the fullback in the flats. JP is the one that decided to do the rollout and turn the ball over there. It makes me sick how so many people are just looking for a scapegoat instead of looking at the problem....and then they are going to be pacified by a coaching change. Maybe that is the problem with this team and not RW at all! Yeah, he's too preoccupied with the marketing not realizing that will all fall into place by concentrating on fielding a winner...but the truth is his preocccupation is because the fans respond to that crap!

The PROBLEM for this team (and has been for years is the line) because the good teams don't primarily pass in goal line situations. At least they can move the line 1 yard on each run attempt. WE CANNOT!!!

[acehole]

And you fail to see my point.

It won't matter who the coaches are until you do a serious upgrade and overhaul to the scouting and GM departments.

In order for coaches to look good, you need to have talent that can compete week in and week out. When you have subpar talent, some weeks they'll play over their head, some weeks they'll play under their head and others they're "they are who we thought they were!"

Hmm in seasons past it was just the qb.....learning is fun....

[Mr. Pink]

Hmm in seasons past it was just the qb.....learning is fun....


You just don't get it.

Even with competent QB play we go 10-6, with the limited talent base.

Any team who's mediocre, bad, average you don't need to look any further than the QB to see why.

If you have inconsistent QB play, you won't win in this league.

[acehole]

You just don't get it.

Even with competent QB play we go 10-6, with the limited talent base.

Any team who's mediocre, bad, average you don't need to look any further than the QB to see why.

If you have inconsistent QB play, you won't win in this league.

I agree....but as we all learned it takes much more then a qb to field a winner...

[Typ0]

The PROBLEM for this team (and has been for years is the line) because the good teams don't primarily pass in goal line situations. At least they can move the line 1 yard on each run attempt. WE CANNOT!!!

the poster said Jauron was an idiot for throwing the ball to Evans I merely pointed out that it was JP that threw the ball to LE. A lot of teams call that play on the goal line that's why we got Hardy in the first place. JP is the idiot not the coaching staff.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Turk is going to take the fall for his incompetant head coach, although he was nothing special that is for sure.

[acehole]

Turk is going to take the fall for his incompetant head coach, although he was nothing special that is for sure.

He really starting out very good...I was shocked at not knowing where the ball was going/.....alot of counter stuff...nice pass/run balance even short med long balls being thrown to diff guys.....then the injury...then it fell apart...maybe he came back before he was ready to show he was tough.....possible when the "Riff" happened between the players/turk/dick...I dont know but the wheels came off and that usually pionts and coaches....