Coaches Influences on Player Decisions

[billsfanone]

This may be more rhetorical, but on the average, how much influence does a coach have in deciding on player needs, who to pickup, etc?

I ask because Jauron has proven that he's a loser throughout his career. And a few posters are pointing out that he has some lousy teams.

I argue that a better coach would work through and gameplan around any shortfalls. And a coach with some stones would make sure the FO picks up players he needs to succeed.

[OpIv37]

How much formal authority depends on the team and the coach's relationship with the GM. But any GM that's worth a damn is going to listen to the coach as far as the necessary personnel. Not doing so is simply idiotic.

I think it's wrong to blame Jauron entirely for the lack of talent around him, but it's also wrong to completely exonerate him. He had to have some influence, especially during the first two years in Buffalo when Marv was here.

As far as not getting the most out of his players, well, I think that's a clear failure on the part of Jauron. Poz and Whitner are both playing out of position. Bryan Scott sat on the bench for half a season while Ko Simpson ran around like a chicken with his head cut off. Steve Johnson sat behind Roscoe and James Hardy. When Losman was the QB, there were never any designed QB draws. There are probably more but these come immediately to mind.

[justasportsfan]

just look at the PAts. No mater who they put in, they perform. They execute.

Again you will have posters that will argue with facts. They will argue with proven success (BB success no matter who the players are ) using proven failures (Jaurons entire career) .

[Nighthawk]

This may be more rhetorical, but on the average, how much influence does a coach have in deciding on player needs, who to pickup, etc?

I ask because Jauron has proven that he's a loser throughout his career. And a few posters are pointing out that he has some lousy teams.

I argue that a better coach would work through and gameplan around any shortfalls. And a coach with some stones would make sure the FO picks up players he needs to succeed.

This is dead on! Jauron is at fault for not only coaching, but the players on the field. He may not have 100% say in who he coaches, but to believe he has none is just foolish.

[Mr. Pink]

Basically here's the coaches input on the talent.

Hey I need a new guy at LB, RB, TE, C, CB, DT.....

Then the talent evaluators, Modrak, Guy, Brandon etc go out and pick who they think best fits that position through their scouting expertise.

There's simple reasons for this...the head coach doesn't have time to do the scouting work, either college or pro. That's why you have a top college scout and a director of pro player personnel. Those are the guys who ultimately decide which players to bring in to help the organization.

Now you could also have this situation come up...let's revisit the 2006 NFL draft for an example. Modrak talks to Dick "Hey Dick, we're on the clock and we know you need a DT and a S for the scheme...we think they're about equal overall...which do you want more?" Ngata vs Whitner. Now, the thing is like I said Dick doesn't have time nor is it his job to know who's better of the two. He's told a S or a DT and makes the decision based on which player is more important to the scheme.

Now the problem becomes this... You can't get the best out of a guy who has no work ethic, desire or heart. No matter who the coach was, you weren't getting more out of McCargo than what we got. No matter who the coach was, the Chargers weren't getting anything more out of Ryan Leaf.

About Steve Johnson. He was a 6th round pick. He has to EARN the right to crack the lineup and he has to really impress to do so. Why? The franchises investment in him is nowhere near what it is with Hardy or Parrish. If you saw Johnson from day 1 leapfrog Hardy on the depth chart then you get backlash, "well why did you waste that pick on him, if you're just starting a 6th round pick ahead of him anyways? Are you that stupid?" Same example goes with Scott vs Ko. Or Greer vs Youboty. Or Poz vs Digi. You get the point.

Hopefully that all makes sense.

[justasportsfan]

About Steve Johnson. He was a 6th round pick. He has to EARN the right to crack the lineup and he has to really impress to do so. Why? The franchises investment in him is nowhere near what it is with Hardy or Parrish. If you saw Johnson from day 1 leapfrog Hardy on the depth chart then you get backlash, "well why did you waste that pick on him, if you're just starting a 6th round pick ahead of him anyways? Are you that stupid?" Same example goes with Scott vs Ko. Or Greer vs Youboty. Or Poz vs Digi. You get the point.

Hopefully that all makes sense.


Colston had to earn it in his first year? NO. Coach saw him at camp, coach put him in. Nuff said.

[Mr. Pink]

Colston had to earn it in his first year? NO. Coach saw him at camp, coach put him in. Nuff said.

Really?

Maybe you can explain why he only started 12 games as a rookie then?

[madness]

Really?

Maybe you can explain why he only started 12 games as a rookie then?

There were articles on how fast he was progressing during his rookie season as well.

[justasportsfan]

Really?

Maybe you can explain why he only started 12 games as a rookie then?


if you take into account where he was drafted, starting 12 games is waaaaaay more than expected. How many games did Hardy start?

[OpIv37]

Basically here's the coaches input on the talent.

Hey I need a new guy at LB, RB, TE, C, CB, DT.....

Then the talent evaluators, Modrak, Guy, Brandon etc go out and pick who they think best fits that position through their scouting expertise.

There's simple reasons for this...the head coach doesn't have time to do the scouting work, either college or pro. That's why you have a top college scout and a director of pro player personnel. Those are the guys who ultimately decide which players to bring in to help the organization.

Now you could also have this situation come up...let's revisit the 2006 NFL draft for an example. Modrak talks to Dick "Hey Dick, we're on the clock and we know you need a DT and a S for the scheme...we think they're about equal overall...which do you want more?" Ngata vs Whitner. Now, the thing is like I said Dick doesn't have time nor is it his job to know who's better of the two. He's told a S or a DT and makes the decision based on which player is more important to the scheme.

Now the problem becomes this... You can't get the best out of a guy who has no work ethic, desire or heart. No matter who the coach was, you weren't getting more out of McCargo than what we got. No matter who the coach was, the Chargers weren't getting anything more out of Ryan Leaf.

About Steve Johnson. He was a 6th round pick. He has to EARN the right to crack the lineup and he has to really impress to do so. Why? The franchises investment in him is nowhere near what it is with Hardy or Parrish. If you saw Johnson from day 1 leapfrog Hardy on the depth chart then you get backlash, "well why did you waste that pick on him, if you're just starting a 6th round pick ahead of him anyways? Are you that stupid?" Same example goes with Scott vs Ko. Or Greer vs Youboty. Or Poz vs Digi. You get the point.

Hopefully that all makes sense.

If Dick is trying to run a C2/T2 D and he took S over DT, he should have been fired on the spot, especially considering the crap we had at DT at the time.

[DraftBoy]

if you take into account where he was drafted, starting 12 games is waaaaaay more than expected. How many games did Hardy start?


But why was he good enough to start? Because a very smart scout talked to his GM and said this kid is a stud in the making and convinced his GM to take him, Peyton then saw the talent the kid had, gave him chances and eventually a starting role.

Hardy started 3 games this year.

[Mr. Pink]

if you take into account where he was drafted, starting 12 games is waaaaaay more than expected. How many games did Hardy start?

And what does that have to do with Colston exactly?

The front office in New Orleans is obviously better than the front office here.

If that's what that statement is trying to prove, you didn't need to.

Hardy simply isn't ready for the NFL yet. With his injury, he probably never will be.

[justasportsfan]

But why was he good enough to start? Because a very smart scout talked to his GM and said this kid is a stud in the making and convinced his GM to take him, Peyton then saw the talent the kid had, gave him chances and eventually a starting role.

Hardy started 3 games this year.


A good coach knew how to put him in a situation to succeed regardless of where he was drafted. Yes, sometimes you find a gem in the later rounds where you and your scouting dept didn't see. But a good coach will be able to make the adjustments. If people here think Jackson was a better rb, then he should've started. It's the coaches job to put the best players on the field.

Like I said, talent and coaching goes hand in hand.

[Mr. Pink]

If Dick is trying to run a C2/T2 D and he took S over DT, he should have been fired on the spot, especially considering the crap we had at DT at the time.

The position Whitner plays is key for the Cover 2.

If all things being equal...between Ngata and Whitner...Whitner would be the right pick.

Of course, we know now that all things weren't equal and Ngata would have more of an impact on this team.

Thing is Dick wouldn't have known that at the time.

Same thing happened in Cleveland with Ngata actually.

Savage posed the question to Crennel..."we think Ngata and Wimbley are equal talent wise...which position do you want for your scheme NT or pass rushing OLB." Crennel chose the LB.

In hindsight, it was the wrong move in Cleveland.

Don't know if that situation ever presented itself here, was just using it as an example. Hell, you could use Broderick Bunkley vs Whitner for the situation here, seeing Bunkley would have actually fit the system better.

Point is, the coach puts faith and trust in those whose expertise should be the draft. He expects them to provide him with the proper tools for success. Obviously a scout is gonna know more about individual prospects than an NFL head coach.

And, I don't think anyone can argue that the FO hasn't provided Dick with the proper tools for success here or Chicago.

[justasportsfan]

If the coaches have no influence , we wouldn't have this disscussion. Dicks job would be safe. End of story.