Whitner - bust- moron thread 2.0 [Archive] - BillsZone.com

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Marvelous

01-01-2009, 05:44 PM

I ghosted that thread & was way to depressed afte rthe Pats game to get involved when emotions we're flared etc..
-Also, i've come to learn in my experience, not to judge a player when teh team is pooping..

--So is Donte a bust? I say no.
-Is he under-productive for the 8th overall pick? NO-DOUBT. Did he control when he was drafted? We knew he was a surprise pick and we we're like "WTF!"
-Is Donte Whitner a showbiz safety like Ed Reed or Troy Polamolu? NO
--Is it fair/realistic to jusge Whitner on stats that are not his realm? NO,it is not!

--When healthy it's kinda obvious that Whitner is a beast. In the Steve Atwater,Roy Williams mold..
--He's no different then say Pat Williams & Tim Bowens in the sense that they are not judged by sack stats. Warren Sapp & Tommy Harris are stat netting DT/NT's..But it's my honest view that Witner is not a INT guy & not a sack specialist like Milloy or Polamolu etc...

-So my bottom line is that Whitner is what he is & that's a sure tackler when healthy & a play it safe safety. & IMO it's a position that we have L-O-C-K-E-D up for years to come from him...But lets accept that if we expect stats like INT's & sacks that we are just going to be disapointed.. Right? Sure i'd like some sack stats because sack stats from a safety are just padded stats because it's not their normal stats that is sought.. But thinking of Milloy & Rodney Harrison blitzing and getting a sack stats is/was nooo biggie because they just lined up on the weak side and ran to teh QB un-avaded. So what's the skill involved there?
---We know for a fact that Whitner could easily bring down a QB...
----Is WHitner in control of the playcall for him to blitz? duh,he's not.....
---This has only 1 similarity with the Chris Kelsay perspective. That some fans expect two things form all positions,,thus meaning these fans are extreme & most likely younger....
-1- is they expect pro bowl type stats from every position..
-2- is that positions that are not por-bowl types filled, that the position must be filled by a rookie/or young guy who is being groomed,or progressed to be elite..
----My view is PHIL HANSEN! Reliability has a major place on every team...I don't demand stats from every position...

---I do recall in the previous thread about WHitner that the thread starter(PAT!)NEG-NANCY!) That Pat didn't mention, or list Whitners tackle stats..why Pat? Could you're point about WHitner being a bust still stand even though he is a tackling machine?

---I agree that the 8th pick shouldn't be used on a safety,TE, or Guard, or Center..The positions i consider non-skilled..So if we do draft these positions that high, the drafted player better be suprememly worth it..& Number 8 is too high for a Roy Williams type of safety..The LB safety should be secondary to the Ed Reed,Polamolu type...

-But since we do have Whitner,i wanna jusge him based on what he does based on his skill set,,or based on the type of player he is..Not judge him with stats that doesn't fit his style of play..That's all i'm sayin...I want more from him with INT's etc, & i wanna win more then,or the same as everyone.

Oh,,,here's his Pat Moran missing tackle stats----(Not that they are gonna make or break the argument or judgment,but they should be shown for all to have as common memory----------
-2006- 104 tackles in 14 games started
-2007-89 in 15 starts
-2008- 61 in 13 games
---I thought he came back to soon this year & his play showed that. I guess that is what prompted Pat to get pissed at him.. Esp with Scott playing awesome & him being another teams castoff etc...
-----Pat, do you dislike the kind of safety he is,,,or dislike him underachieving as the hard-hitting/tackle kind of safety?

bflobarry

01-01-2009, 07:04 PM

Whitner when healthy is a "beast"? You're drinking the kool aid, man. Whitner, when healthy, is below average. Name one significant, "wow" play that he has made in 3 YEARS?! None.

streetkings01

01-01-2009, 08:46 PM

Whitner when healthy is a "beast"? You're drinking the kool aid, man. Whitner, when healthy, is below average. Name one significant, "wow" play that he has made in 3 YEARS?! None.Maybe his definition of "beast" is average and doesn't make any plays?

Marvelous

01-01-2009, 09:09 PM

BuffaloBill06, please don't speak as if i am no longer here bro.. :smile:
---Beast = punish someone via contact..

-Dmnit! I suck at retrieving stats & esp at looking up games & esp plays in paticular...

---Outta those 284 tackles none we're bone crunching?
-None we're 3rd down stopage?
-none we're game deciding?
-none we're him creaming the ball carrier like Winfield or Nate?
-Did He make any INT's that didn't count due to penalty?
---Why is my memory so mediocre the last 1-3 seasons? I used to remember plays from certain games etc. Is this the mediocrity of the team keeping me from retaining? :lol:
--We can't just abandon hope on him..
--Guess i'll ask both of you's and anyone else who feels similar,,,Would you feel comfier with Whitners progression if he we're drafted outside the top 10,,or better yet,outside the 1st round??

OpIv37

01-01-2009, 09:18 PM

---Beast = punish someone via contact..

but he NEVER does that. He had one good hit all year, and he got knocked the **** out in the Pats game and the Jags game trying to tackle big backs. Say what you will about his overall play, but there is no way you can legitimately claim that Whitner "punishes" or is a "big hitter" or anything to that effect. Sure tackler, yes. Big hitter or punisher- not even close.

Stewie

01-01-2009, 09:47 PM

memory is mediocre 'cause you're trying to remember stuff that never happened. he was there, that is all.

we have bigger needs.

billsfanone

01-01-2009, 09:51 PM

He is average at best. He'll do though. The team has much bigger needs.

pintonick96

01-01-2009, 09:52 PM

but he NEVER does that. He had one good hit all year, and he got knocked the **** out in the Pats game and the Jags game trying to tackle big backs. Say what you will about his overall play, but there is no way you can legitimately claim that Whitner "punishes" or is a "big hitter" or anything to that effect. Sure tackler, yes. Big hitter or punisher- not even close.

Actually if his shoulder stayed in place he woulda rocked Sammy Morris but thats just **** that happens when you play football. Ask LaRon Landry whos a pretty good safety in Washington who had the same thing happen to him.

OpIv37

01-01-2009, 10:00 PM

Actually if his shoulder stayed in place he woulda rocked Sammy Morris but thats just **** that happens when you play football. Ask LaRon Landry whos a pretty good safety in Washington who had the same thing happen to him.

you cant be serious.

Whitner's shoulder popping out was the consequence, not the cause. Even the announcers pointed out that he had his feet too far underneath him. He tried to deliver a big hit without being in the proper position and he paid the price. It's not the first time it's happened, either.

And you're right in that every defender gets run over from time to time, but Whitner gets run over more than he delivers big hits. Therefore, he is not a punisher.

Turbo.GUN.Hawk!

01-01-2009, 10:20 PM

He is average, not elite and not a bust. Sure he is not worth a 8th pick but we can't get rid of him just because he was an 8th pick. We drafted him and right now it doesn't matter whether he was an 8th pick or an undrafted free agent, he provides what he provides to the team.

So he is average, I prefer to use him as a free safety and Scott as the strong safety. Right now we have other needs, only when we are that good we should start to wonder about improving decent positions like this one, not now.

He is not a punisher by the way and he gets constantly over-run by opposing running backs when he needs to seal the deal allowing big plays.

Mitchell55

01-01-2009, 10:30 PM

I find it intresting that after Donte got layed out last week the announcers sayed one of the hardest hitters is down.

TacklingDummy

01-01-2009, 11:58 PM

Name one hard hit Whitner has layed on anyone, really just name one.

tat2dmike77

01-02-2009, 12:07 AM

Maybe his definition of "beast" is average and doesn't make any plays?

That seems to be the type of player this team wants

tat2dmike77

01-02-2009, 12:10 AM

Name one hard hit Whitner has layed on anyone, really just name one.

Chad Johnson last year. But i really think that was his first and only one of his career.

jamze132

01-02-2009, 03:22 AM

billsfanone

01-02-2009, 07:58 AM

mayotm

01-02-2009, 08:38 AM

I never heard of Whitner before his name was announced at the podium. I am still wondering what everyone's fascination with him is? Yeah, it's nice that he has the guys over to shoot the **** while trying to be a leader but ya gotta back it up on the field and he hasn't done **** thus far.I guess you don't know much about college football if you'd never heard of Whitner prior to him being drafted. Obviously, he was drafted earlier than most projected. However, he still would've been drafted in the first round.

RedEyE

01-02-2009, 08:59 AM

He's proven to be mediocre at best. But the Bills have more glaring needs, he's been noticed as a locker room leader, and the love fest with Whitner at One Bills Drive will continue, so we might as well get used to him being there.

THATHURMANATOR

01-02-2009, 09:01 AM

SORECO AND NUMEROUS OTHERS ARE RIGHT ON. He is a servicable player, not a bust and not a stud. I still have slim hopes he will improve but he is not someone we should get rid of.

jamze132

01-02-2009, 11:59 PM

I guess you don't know much about college football if you'd never heard of Whitner prior to him being drafted. Obviously, he was drafted earlier than most projected. However, he still would've been drafted in the first round.
I do know a lot about college football but I don't follow every team, especially outside the SEC where my Gators rule. So no I didn't here about Whitner nor have I ever claimed to be a draft guru. I just like to follow the coattails of "real draft dudes" like 99.9% of everyone else on this board does.

patmoran2006

01-03-2009, 08:35 AM

Not that "Draft Experts" ranking someone mean anything, but I very much remember 2006. Whitner was projected on a lot of mock drafts to go to Miami with the 16th pick (I think). There was ONE and ONE ONLY mock/rankings that projected Whitner at 8 to Buffalo, and that was Mike Mayock from NFL Network.

90% of the mocks had us taking Ngata or Bunkley.

And I remember hearing afterwards, maybe from Modrak that Ngata wasn't the "cover two" type of DT that we needed.. Turns out that dude is maybe the sickest DT in terms of athleticism for his size that I've EVER seen play.. He drops into pass coverage sometimes!

acehole

01-03-2009, 09:37 AM

Witner is a solid player and he loves to be a bill.

We dont have many of those please dont piss on this one guys.

acehole

01-03-2009, 09:39 AM

I remember this...and then we go sign stroud...

I really wanted ngata.

and sherman......and Michael Turner....and sindey rice....oh well that is how it goes...

Not that "Draft Experts" ranking someone mean anything, but I very much remember 2006. Whitner was projected on a lot of mock drafts to go to Miami with the 16th pick (I think). There was ONE and ONE ONLY mock/rankings that projected Whitner at 8 to Buffalo, and that was Mike Mayock from NFL Network.

90% of the mocks had us taking Ngata or Bunkley.

And I remember hearing afterwards, maybe from Modrak that Ngata wasn't the "cover two" type of DT that we needed.. Turns out that dude is maybe the sickest DT in terms of athleticism for his size that I've EVER seen play.. He drops into pass coverage sometimes!

Jan Reimers

01-03-2009, 09:51 AM

We can argue about Whitner all day, but with a better front 7, he will be a better player. And we certainly have more needs on both sides of the ball, including DE, DT, LB, C, TE and WR at a minimum.

acehole

01-03-2009, 09:58 AM

[quote=Jan Reimers]We can argue about Whitner all day, but with a better front 7, he will be a better player. And we certainly have more needs on both sides of the ball, including DE, DT, LB, C, TE and WR at a minimum.[/quot

Indeed...with no pass rush up front the secondary has to hold coverage longer....and vise versa...the longer the secondary can cover the more the o line has to hold a block and impoved in the sack catagory.

We are so focused on one player here all the time....but it takes every player on deffense to do there job for a play to work.....

Witner is not bust...just an above average player on an avarage team....

madness

01-03-2009, 11:01 AM

We can argue about Whitner all day, but with a better front 7, he will be a better player. And we certainly have more needs on both sides of the ball, including DE, DT, LB, C, TE and WR at a minimum.

I also don't like how Fewell was using him in multiple positions injuries or not. I don't care how much talent a young player has, he can't learn the in's and out's of a position if he's being moved all over the field. I also think it was a stupid decision to play someone almost half the season with a seperated shoulder.

I do however like the fact that they finally moved him over to FS toward the end of the year. Hopefully he can progress at that position and flourish into the player we all expect him to be.

Turbo.GUN.Hawk!

01-03-2009, 10:57 PM

He drops into pass coverage sometimes!
Has someone been watching NFL Network's Playbook?