My OffSeason Wish List is Currently 4 Deep

[patmoran2006]

These are the guys, at least at this time I'd really like to get our hands on.

We have cap room, Ralph said we dont have the talent and kept our bum Head Coach, which would supposedly mean we're going to active in FA.

And since our front four is a joke, I"m assuming we're going to cut the hell out Chris Kelsay freeing up even more cap money.

Anyway

1- Jason Brown, C (Balt)- best OL in Free Agency, I think at least.

2- Bertrand Berry, DE (Ariz)- 11-year vet but can still reck havoc, would be a tremendous stop gap DE while either Ellis develops and/or we draft a DE early in April.

3- Bo Scaife, TE (Tenn)- SOLID all around TE, if he played in a different system he'd have more catches, and he's a solid blocker.. Would be a tremendous asset for Edwards.

4- Angelo Crowell, LB (Buff)- I'd like to bring him back. I dont think Arizona lets Dansby hit the market, and even if he did someone will throw too much money at him. SCott (Ravens) isn't much better than Crowell, IMO and would cost far more.

We also obviously need a backup QB; I dont really give a **** about any of the backups that are scheduled to become FA. Im sure Buffalo will be very patient with that.

[PECKERWOOD]

I'm sorry Pat but Scott is ALOT better than Crowell and that's coming from one of the biggest Skoob's floating around here and even I can see that.

I didn't know that Scaife is a FA, I would like that signing alot but I have some concerns that you will see when you read further on..

I really like Brown as well, add a FA like Brandon Jones in there and we're golden.

Berry would be nice as well, although I would prefer it if we focued our funds on Suggs and Brown, with a veteran WR like Brandon Jones from TEN and then we could draft a TE like Coffman. I don't think that Scaife would be a big enough upgrade to justify cutting tides with Royal.

[Marvelous]

So Ellis or a draft pick would be better then Chris Kelsay? I don't understand how anyone could not put all the facts into the situations before saying "Suck or Bust."
--I had hoped for more form Kelsay once Schobel went down but as soon as I/WE saw rRyan Denney suck-ass it became obvious that Kelsay was gonna struggle due to NO-HELP from the other side...I'm all for upgrading, but isn't Kelsay reliable as long as we have talent on teh other side?

--Any chance Schobel comes back and dominates again? If he does then IMO Kelsay improves automaticaly. right?
---I like getting Bert Berry from Cards, maybe he oculd mean teh end of Ryan Denney. And with a roatation of Schobel,Berry & Kelsay & rookieor/Ellis then IMO we are super improved already.

[superbills]

So Ellis or a draft pick would be better then Chris Kelsay? I don't understand how anyone could not put all the facts into the situations before saying "Suck or Bust."
--I had hoped for more form Kelsay once Schobel went down but as soon as I/WE saw rRyan Denney suck-ass it became obvious that Kelsay was gonna struggle due to NO-HELP from the other side...I'm all for upgrading, but isn't Kelsay reliable as long as we have talent on teh other side?

--Any chance Schobel comes back and dominates again? If he does then IMO Kelsay improves automaticaly. right?
---I like getting Bert Berry from Cards, maybe he oculd mean teh end of Ryan Denney. And with a roatation of Schobel,Berry & Kelsay & rookieor/Ellis then IMO we are super improved already.

Schobel and dominate should never be used in the same sentence. When has he ever?

[jimbohastle51]

These are the guys, at least at this time I'd really like to get our hands on.

We have cap room, Ralph said we dont have the talent and kept our bum Head Coach, which would supposedly mean we're going to active in FA.

And since our front four is a joke, I"m assuming we're going to cut the hell out Chris Kelsay freeing up even more cap money.

Anyway

1- Jason Brown, C (Balt)- best OL in Free Agency, I think at least.

2- Bertrand Berry, DE (Ariz)- 11-year vet but can still reck havoc, would be a tremendous stop gap DE while either Ellis develops and/or we draft a DE early in April.

3- Bo Scaife, TE (Tenn)- SOLID all around TE, if he played in a different system he'd have more catches, and he's a solid blocker.. Would be a tremendous asset for Edwards.

4- Angelo Crowell, LB (Buff)- I'd like to bring him back. I dont think Arizona lets Dansby hit the market, and even if he did someone will throw too much money at him. SCott (Ravens) isn't much better than Crowell, IMO and would cost far more.

We also obviously need a backup QB; I dont really give a **** about any of the backups that are scheduled to become FA. Im sure Buffalo will be very patient with that.

agreed except the only way i want brown is if we dont get birk. i would like to see us get birk then draft a center to learn under him. but for what we will spend crowell is as good as it gets (he has already said he wants to come back, and his best buddy mitchell is on our team) and good call on scaife not only would he be a major upgrade but the kid is a raising star the past 2 years and its better to get him while he is still coming up than trade for a proven star like gonzo and pay 6-7 million a year for a tight end. scaife would be a deal while still being everything we need and more.

[Mahdi]

These are the guys, at least at this time I'd really like to get our hands on.

We have cap room, Ralph said we dont have the talent and kept our bum Head Coach, which would supposedly mean we're going to active in FA.

And since our front four is a joke, I"m assuming we're going to cut the hell out Chris Kelsay freeing up even more cap money.

Anyway

1- Jason Brown, C (Balt)- best OL in Free Agency, I think at least.

2- Bertrand Berry, DE (Ariz)- 11-year vet but can still reck havoc, would be a tremendous stop gap DE while either Ellis develops and/or we draft a DE early in April.

3- Bo Scaife, TE (Tenn)- SOLID all around TE, if he played in a different system he'd have more catches, and he's a solid blocker.. Would be a tremendous asset for Edwards.

4- Angelo Crowell, LB (Buff)- I'd like to bring him back. I dont think Arizona lets Dansby hit the market, and even if he did someone will throw too much money at him. SCott (Ravens) isn't much better than Crowell, IMO and would cost far more.

We also obviously need a backup QB; I dont really give a **** about any of the backups that are scheduled to become FA. Im sure Buffalo will be very patient with that.
The only one of those that might actually happen is Crowell. Brown is going to be targeted by at least 15 teams, Scaife is not that great and I think a TE will be targeted in the draft which is deep at TE. Bertrand Berry is too old, we already have an aging DE or 2, we need to draft the best possible DE.

[patmoran2006]

So Ellis or a draft pick would be better then Chris Kelsay? I don't understand how anyone could not put all the facts into the situations before saying "Suck or Bust."
--I had hoped for more form Kelsay once Schobel went down but as soon as I/WE saw rRyan Denney suck-ass it became obvious that Kelsay was gonna struggle due to NO-HELP from the other side...I'm all for upgrading, but isn't Kelsay reliable as long as we have talent on teh other side?

--Any chance Schobel comes back and dominates again? If he does then IMO Kelsay improves automaticaly. right?
---I like getting Bert Berry from Cards, maybe he oculd mean teh end of Ryan Denney. And with a roatation of Schobel,Berry & Kelsay & rookieor/Ellis then IMO we are super improved already.
I did not say that Ellis or a draft pick woudl be better than Kelsay (although how much less production could they give). I said sign Berry and groom Ellis and a draft pick under him.

And why would Berry mean the end of Denney? Denney is more effective than Kelsay, and cheaper to boot.

[Jan Reimers]

These are the guys, at least at this time I'd really like to get our hands on.

We have cap room, Ralph said we dont have the talent and kept our bum Head Coach, which would supposedly mean we're going to active in FA.

And since our front four is a joke, I"m assuming we're going to cut the hell out Chris Kelsay freeing up even more cap money.

Anyway

1- Jason Brown, C (Balt)- best OL in Free Agency, I think at least.

2- Bertrand Berry, DE (Ariz)- 11-year vet but can still reck havoc, would be a tremendous stop gap DE while either Ellis develops and/or we draft a DE early in April.

3- Bo Scaife, TE (Tenn)- SOLID all around TE, if he played in a different system he'd have more catches, and he's a solid blocker.. Would be a tremendous asset for Edwards.

4- Angelo Crowell, LB (Buff)- I'd like to bring him back. I dont think Arizona lets Dansby hit the market, and even if he did someone will throw too much money at him. SCott (Ravens) isn't much better than Crowell, IMO and would cost far more.

We also obviously need a backup QB; I dont really give a **** about any of the backups that are scheduled to become FA. Im sure Buffalo will be very patient with that.
This is like 100 lawyers going over a cliff. A good start.

[patmoran2006]

The only one of those that might actually happen is Crowell. Brown is going to be targeted by at least 15 teams, Scaife is not that great and I think a TE will be targeted in the draft which is deep at TE. Bertrand Berry is too old, we already have an aging DE or 2, we need to draft the best possible DE.
when you say that TE is deep in the draft, do you mean as in we'd take a potential franchise TE in the first or second round.. Or are you talking about yet another long term "project" like Fine or Schouman?

WE need a TE via FA or the draft who can come in and matter from day one.

[HHURRICANE]

Let me help this thread:

1) Ellis will never, ever, develop into a pass rushing threat. I saw enough in one season to tell me we can cut him now and save the pain.

2) Anyone holding out hope that our 2 white starters, both well in their 30s, who were completely healthy in 2007 and combined for 9 sacks, need to rethink their theory.

Please re-read #2!! Kelsay and Schobel were both healthy and combined for 9 sacks. That's our fearsome ends!!

[Jan Reimers]

Let me help this thread:

1) Ellis will never, ever, develop into a pass rushing threat. I saw enough in one season to tell me we can cut him now and save the pain.

2) Anyone holding out hope that our 2 white starters, both well in their 30s, who were completely healthy in 2007 and combined for 9 sacks, need to rethink their theory.

Please re-read #2!! Kelsay and Schobel were both healthy and combined for 9 sacks. That's our fearsome ends!!
I agree, HH, but I don't think age is the major factor so much as lack of talent. Schobel will turn 32 at the beginning of next season, while Kelsay will not turn 30 until midseason.

[PECKERWOOD]

Get what you can for Schobel while he still has value.

3rd round pick anybody?

[ddaryl]

Get what you can for Schobel while he still has value.

3rd round pick anybody?

If Schobel can return I'd rather keep him over Kelsay or Denney, but We need someone much better then Schobel as our star end

[Mahdi]

when you say that TE is deep in the draft, do you mean as in we'd take a potential franchise TE in the first or second round.. Or are you talking about yet another long term "project" like Fine or Schouman?

WE need a TE via FA or the draft who can come in and matter from day one.
Im talking about drafting a second round TE with a DE in the first.

[Mahdi]

If Schobel can return I'd rather keep him over Kelsay or Denney, but We need someone much better then Schobel as our star end
Schobel at this point would be so much better if he was our second best DE.

[DraftBoy]

Ill pass on Berry, he adds nothing to the defense that we don't already have really. Its just another mediocre acquisition.

Id also target Karlos Dansby, yes I know 30 other teams will be after him, but we need a big name offseason move and I hope he'll be it.

[Mahdi]

Ill pass on Berry, he adds nothing to the defense that we don't already have really. Its just another mediocre acquisition.

Id also target Karlos Dansby, yes I know 30 other teams will be after him, but we need a big name offseason move and I hope he'll be it.
Would rather have a healthy Crowell than Dansby. If he is healthy he could have a huge impact for us next year playing behind Stroud and would cost half as much as Dansby. Plus I like Crowell in coverage and he already knows the system.

[DraftBoy]

Would rather have a healthy Crowell than Dansby. If he is healthy he could have a huge impact for us next year playing behind Stroud and would cost half as much as Dansby. Plus I like Crowell in coverage and he already knows the system.


Without a doubt Dansby, its not even close.

[Mahdi]

Without a doubt Dansby, its not even close.
Crowell has pretty good stats too. Im saying that Crowell is cheaper, already knows the system and has already had a lot of success, why not use the cap space elsewhere like OL and DL, I am firmly against handing out big contracts to LBs. Of course there are a few exceptions to that like Urlacher, Briggs, Brooks maybe a couple of others. Dont count 3-4 LBs though because they have the same value as DEs in a 4-3

[Michael82]

The first big name guy I would go after would be Julius Peppers. That's a splash signing that would get people excited again...

[Mahdi]

The first big name guy I would go after would be Julius Peppers. That's a splash signing that would get people excited again...
If by some miracle the Panthers let Peppers go, I highly doubt Peppers chooses Buffalo. We would have to give him the richest contract in Bills history and make him the highest paid DL in the NFL, right after we give Peters the richest contract in Bills history and a top 5 paid LT.


I hope it happens though....

[Michael82]

If by some miracle the Panthers let Peppers go, I highly doubt Peppers chooses Buffalo. We would have to give him the richest contract in Bills history and make him the highest paid DL in the NFL, right after we give Peters the richest contract in Bills history and a top 5 paid LT.


I hope it happens though....
Okay, then I'm fine with Terrell Suggs too. :up:

[PECKERWOOD]

I personally like Suggs more than Peppers. Suggs adds a versatility to this defense, we would be able to give offenses many different looks with him in the lineup.

[DraftBoy]

Crowell has pretty good stats too. Im saying that Crowell is cheaper, already knows the system and has already had a lot of success, why not use the cap space elsewhere like OL and DL, I am firmly against handing out big contracts to LBs. Of course there are a few exceptions to that like Urlacher, Briggs, Brooks maybe a couple of others. Dont count 3-4 LBs though because they have the same value as DEs in a 4-3


Who cares about stats alone though? Dansby is bigger, faster, has less injury history, and is stronger. Dansby played in a similar system and has not been a starter as long as Crowell but has put up comparable to better numbers;

Crowell:
09-NO STATS DUE TO INJURY
08-119 tackles, 3 sacks, 2 INT, 3 PD
07-82 tackles, 2 sacks, 2 INT, 5 PD
06-126 tackles, 2 sacks, 1 INT, 4 PD

Dansby:
09-119 tackles, 4 sacks, 2 INT, 5 PD, 2 FF
08-97 tackles, 3.5 sacks, 3 INT, 8 PD
07-80 tackles, 8 sacks, 0 INT, 3 PD
06-88 tackles, 4 sacks, 3 INT, 1 PD

Dansby is better in coverage, a better blitzer, and just is better. He's well worth a huge contract.

[Mahdi]

Okay, then I'm fine with Terrell Suggs too. :up:
Hey why not?

[Mahdi]

Who cares about stats alone though? Dansby is bigger, faster, has less injury history, and is stronger. Dansby played in a similar system and has not been a starter as long as Crowell but has put up comparable to better numbers;

Crowell:
09-NO STATS DUE TO INJURY
08-119 tackles, 3 sacks, 2 INT, 3 PD
07-82 tackles, 2 sacks, 2 INT, 5 PD
06-126 tackles, 2 sacks, 1 INT, 4 PD

Dansby:
09-119 tackles, 4 sacks, 2 INT, 5 PD, 2 FF
08-97 tackles, 3.5 sacks, 3 INT, 8 PD
07-80 tackles, 8 sacks, 0 INT, 3 PD
06-88 tackles, 4 sacks, 3 INT, 1 PD

Dansby is better in coverage, a better blitzer, and just is better. He's well worth a huge contract.
I agree that Dansby MAY be a better LB than Crowell but if Crowell is healthy the difference is not that big as we see in the stats. My point is that I wouldnt pay the extra 4-5 mil a season for what would equate to a minimal difference when that money can be spent elsewhere.

And Crowell can be had at a bargain cause of his injury history. If he is good to go then I would sign him to a 1 or 2 year contract and draft a OLB to groom. Teams dont win championships by signing high priced LBs.

[DraftBoy]

I agree that Dansby MAY be a better LB than Crowell but if Crowell is healthy the difference is not that big as we see in the stats. My point is that I wouldnt pay the extra 4-5 mil a season for what would equate to a minimal difference when that money can be spent elsewhere.

And Crowell can be had at a bargain cause of his injury history. If he is good to go then I would sign him to a 1 or 2 year contract and draft a OLB to groom. Teams dont win championships by signing high priced LBs.


What is your basis for saying he "MAY" be a better LB? In what way do you think he's not? I dont see any place where Crowell is a better LB.

[yordad]

I do not believe Scott is a better cover 2 OLB then Crowell. He is an inside 3-4 LB who averaged about 5 tackles per game. He had less fumble recoveries, and less interceptions then Poz did this year, so don't pull the "playmaker" card.

For comparison Crowell averaged about 8 tackles per game his last season. And, considering he is an OLB, a position that generally gets less tackles, I would say thats pretty good. In fact, he led the AFC in tackles by an OLB.

[Mahdi]

What is your basis for saying he "MAY" be a better LB? In what way do you think he's not? I dont see any place where Crowell is a better LB.
You just posted the stats yourself. There is barely a difference. Crowell has been awesome in this defense both against the run and pass, he is cheaper and has proven that he is a fit in our defense. What's your basis that Dansby is better?

[DraftBoy]

You just posted the stats yourself. There is barely a difference. Crowell has been awesome in this defense both against the run and pass, he is cheaper and has proven that he is a fit in our defense. What's your basis that Dansby is better?


Bigger, Faster, Stronger, Better Blitzer, Better in Coverage...I already laid those all out. You have shown not one thing that Crowell is better at. The stats and measureables support those points too. Dansby has more sacks, has more PD's, has more INT's. So how is Crowell in any way better?

[yordad]

Bigger, Faster, Stronger, Better Blitzer, Better in Coverage...I already laid those all out. You have shown not one thing that Crowell is better at. The stats and measureables support those points too. Dansby has more sacks, has more PD's, has more INT's. So how is Crowell in any way better?IMO, you don't spend twice as much on someone elses talent, especially when he had less tackles, 1 more pass defensed, 1 more Int, and only 2 more sacks. Considering Crowell was barely, if ever blitzed, that would make a difference right there.

Bottom line, they can either sign Crowell, who will likely cost considerably less, or they can get into a bidding war for a player who has been about equally productive.

I prefere to just sign our own guy, but Dansy is one of the few acceptable alternatives.

Also, if you want to call him bigger, go ahead. He is all of 4 pounds heavier.

[Mahdi]

Bigger, Faster, Stronger, Better Blitzer, Better in Coverage...I already laid those all out. You have shown not one thing that Crowell is better at. The stats and measureables support those points too. Dansby has more sacks, has more PD's, has more INT's. So how is Crowell in any way better?
First of all, Crowell has been playing the strong side spot, Dansby has played WLB and this season has played in a 3-4 so naturally he will have better stats because he is in position scheme wise to do that.

Second of all, even having said that the stats are not that far off, they are comparable.

Man you know football pretty well then you should know that SLB responsibilities in a cover 2 are different than a WLB in a 4-3 and a OLB in a 3-4.

Bottom line,,,, Crowell is a proven player in Fewell's system and has had COMPARABLE numbers to Dansby, Dansby being only slightly better. On the other hand Dansby will command a huge contract and we should use that cap space to fill and extend others (Peters, Jackson, Edwards, a TE, etc).

Something else to remember is that if Dansby comes he would play SLB because Mitchell is already playing the WLB spot. It would be a waste. Mitchell was the LB signing we needed to get over the hump for our LB corps, unfortunately Crowell got hurt and downgraded the unit.

[DraftBoy]

First of all, Crowell has been playing the strong side spot, Dansby has played WLB and this season has played in a 3-4 so naturally he will have better stats because he is in position scheme wise to do that.

Second of all, even having said that the stats are not that far off, they are comparable.

Man you know football pretty well then you should know that SLB responsibilities in a cover 2 are different than a WLB in a 4-3 and a OLB in a 3-4.

Bottom line,,,, Crowell is a proven player in Fewell's system and has had COMPARABLE numbers to Dansby, Dansby being only slightly better. On the other hand Dansby will command a huge contract and we should use that cap space to fill and extend others (Peters, Jackson, Edwards, a TE, etc).

Something else to remember is that if Dansby comes he would play SLB because Mitchell is already playing the WLB spot. It would be a waste. Mitchell was the LB signing we needed to get over the hump for our LB corps, unfortunately Crowell got hurt and downgraded the unit.


So in other words, there is not one thing that Crowell is better than Dansby at. Also this year Arizona ran a 4-3 and Dansby played SLB and given his stats and that whole silly pro bowl thing I guess he could maybe do it. Your defense of Crowell is basically banking on the fact that he will be considerably cheaper, not because it improves the position any, and your willing to take the risk that he will be healthy when he comes back. Im not willing to make the same risk when a viable, better and gettable option is available.

[Mahdi]

So in other words, there is not one thing that Crowell is better than Dansby at. Also this year Arizona ran a 4-3 and Dansby played SLB and given his stats and that whole silly pro bowl thing I guess he could maybe do it. Your defense of Crowell is basically banking on the fact that he will be considerably cheaper, not because it improves the position any, and your willing to take the risk that he will be healthy when he comes back. Im not willing to make the same risk when a viable, better and gettable option is available.
Ok not sure if you watch Cardinals football. I have a couple of games and they are definitely NOT a 4-3 defense. They are a 3-4 defense and just like any other 3-4 defense they mix in 4-3 looks.

Cards play with Dockett - Watson - Smith as their DL and Okeafor - Hayes- Dansby - Berry as their LBs. They also use Laboy as a OLB/DE hybrid player.

Dansby is a better blitzer because he is blitzed often. He is bigger by 4 pounds... Big deal?? Who says he is faster? And Crowell when healthy is just as good in coverage and is excellent in run D. You cant tell me that Dansby is better in those areas.... their stats are comparable as I have said 100 times. In his last full season Crowell's stats were just as good as Dansby's. Again I wouldn't pay the extra 4-5 mil for that, especially if Crowell is healthy or we can find a cheaper alternative.

[HHURRICANE]

The first big name guy I would go after would be Julius Peppers. That's a splash signing that would get people excited again...

I'm probably leaning towards Peppers over Suggs just because I think we need the size on this team.

[DraftBoy]

Ok not sure if you watch Cardinals football. I have a couple of games and they are definitely NOT a 4-3 defense. They are a 3-4 defense and just like any other 3-4 defense they mix in 4-3 looks.

Cards play with Dockett - Watson - Smith as their DL and Okeafor - Hayes- Dansby - Berry as their LBs. They also use Laboy as a OLB/DE hybrid player.

Dansby is a better blitzer because he is blitzed often. He is bigger by 4 pounds... Big deal?? Who says he is faster? And Crowell when healthy is just as good in coverage and is excellent in run D. You cant tell me that Dansby is better in those areas.... their stats are comparable as I have said 100 times. In his last full season Crowell's stats were just as good as Dansby's. Again I wouldn't pay the extra 4-5 mil for that, especially if Crowell is healthy or we can find a cheaper alternative.


The Cardinals do not just mix in 4-3 looks, they play a lot in the 4-3. Yes they do use a 3-4 system sometimes, but when in the 4-3 Dansby lines up at the SLB spot, so the main purpose of that was to disprove your point about Dansby needing to switch positions or not understand the C2 SLB .

Where do you assume 4 pounds at? Based on? I say Dansby is faster, he ran a faster time in the 40 at the combine for the draft, and just on film looks faster. I see no reason to keep Crowell if Dansby is interested in signing here.

[patmoran2006]

Charlie Casserly said today that Suggs will very likey be Franchised again.