2009 Draft sucks for what we need so we better be active in FA.

[HHURRICANE]

I actually think the Bills might have to take TE at #11.

DE and Center look pretty weak.

Maybe LB.

Thoughts?

[Mahdi]

DE and C are very deep this year...what you talkin about?

Orakpo, Johnson, Brown ( my favorite), Hardy are all first round DEs

Mack, Luigs, Caldwell, Shipley, Unger, Wood... all are top C its a very deep class.

[ddaryl]

I honestly can not say. I don't know who's who in college football.

None the less we need to bring in talented FA's to solve the majority of our problems at DE OLB C QB and TE/WR

[DraftBoy]

I can honestly say you either have absolutely no idea about what you are talking about or are just posting random crap.

[Mahdi]

I honestly can not say. I don't know who's who in college football.

None the less we need to bring in talented FA's to solve the majority of our problems at DE OLB C QB and TE/WR
Simply not going to happen. First of all its a weak FA class at DE, WR and TE. C is actually a strong FA group so the only major acquisition I see the Bills making on the FA market this year is either Saturday, Brown or Birk, other than that maybe a SS like Sean Jones.

The only OLB i see us signing is Crowell.

[Pinkerton Security]

this is a pretty deep class for center, from waht I hear...

[Jan Reimers]

Since we need to win NOW, our over all philosophy should be to use the draft for postions (DE, DT, LB) where players have the best chance to make an immediate impact, and to sign FAs at positions (WR, C) that generally take players 2-3 years to develop.

We don't need a lot of projects or long shots.

[bigbub2352]

I would not b mad if we went after Brown C from Balt in FA and Berry from AZ DE, cause the same regime is gonna bring the trio of white boyz at DE and tell us the position is stable

We need a pass catching TE as much as we need a pass rush our O is still pathetic Greisam is my choice at 11 it mite be early for him but he looks to be solid as long as his off feild crap is ok

[Mahdi]

I would not b mad if we went after Brown C from Balt in FA and Berry from AZ DE, cause the same regime is gonna bring the trio of white boyz at DE and tell us the position is stable

We need a pass catching TE as much as we need a pass rush our O is still pathetic Greisam is my choice at 11 it mite be early for him but he looks to be solid as long as his off feild crap is ok
Question that has to be asked is what position do we have a better chance to fill in the second round....

There is a high probability that all the top DEs will be gone by the second round however there should still be a TE prospect available near our pick in the second round that we can either wait for or trade up for.

My pick at #11 no matter who is on the board is Everette Brown. He's the perfect Cover 2 DE.

[T-Long]

How can you say there is no DE or C talent in this draft? This is the PERFECT draft for our needs.

They have to go DE though with pick #11. The TE's will all be there at 11, but there is no way we can pass up the pass rusher we need for the next 4-5 seasons

[colin]

de's and dt's often take a couple years to come on strong, lbs tend to make a big splash right away.

the old from wake forest (who would make our corps crow, poz, and him, sick) and in the second maybe the best interior blocker would be my choice.

imo we need a playmaker in the pass rush and on o from FA

[patmoran2006]

Simply not going to happen. First of all its a weak FA class at DE, WR and TE. C is actually a strong FA group so the only major acquisition I see the Bills making on the FA market this year is either Saturday, Brown or Birk, other than that maybe a SS like Sean Jones.

The only OLB i see us signing is Crowell.
I totally disagree with you about DE being a weak FA class.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
For starters, there is a chance Julius Peppers becomes a <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">UFA</st1:place></st1:City>. Being franchised isn’t a sure thing, since if that happens then Jordan Gross hits the free agent market. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t expect <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Carolina</st1:place></st1:City> to not deal with Peters before FA begins, but its at least a possibility. Bertand <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Berry</st1:place></st1:State> could be a great short term stop-gap while Chris Ellis develops (hopefully) or we take a DE earlier in the draft. Antonio Smith is another DE from <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Arizona</st1:place></st1:State> who still has a good amount of upside. Maybe Chris Canty becomes a sought after DE, though he played in a 3-4 at <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">dallas</st1:place></st1:City>. There might not be a lot of depth, but if the Bills are willing to pay they can land a good FA at DE.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
I agree about WR. TJ Who’s Your Momma will be franchised, and I think Antonio Bryant will be as well if no long term deal is worked out. <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Buffalo</st1:place></st1:City> needs to get like a decent vet #3 WR not only for competition but if Hardy stays hurt and/or Johnson doesn’t take that next step. Id like to see them bring in someone like a Hank BAskett or Nate Washington for that role. I dont think Buffalo NEEDS to spend alot of money at WR via FA.
<o:p> </o:p>
I have thought, and still think Tight End is the most important position on offense right now, when you factor in our offensive philosophy, or at least what it SHOULD be (strong running game, lots of intermediate routes in the middle for QB Trent Edwards). I would love to get Scaife (<st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Tenn</st1:place></st1:State>)<o:p></o:p>

But I would still prefer a strong DE at #11 right now over anything else, and coming back with a center in round 2, if we don’t sign Jason Brown, the top FA in the market I realistically want Buffalo to get. Yer right this is a deep draft Center class. But if you get Jason brown you dont have to worry about center. Bring back DUke to be a backup.

But if you take a DE at #11, what do you do with the rest? Everything I've read says Schobel and Kelsay aren't getting cut, and Denny is coming back. Already got Ellis on the roster. If we take a DE at 11, I would think someone has to go.

[methos4ever]

Keep in mind too that Hardy won't be ready until training camp with his late season ACL tear - so it would behoove us to get a receiver in FA and the draft.

C is deep both at FA and Draft.

DE wise, it's stacked in the draft. We could, could mind you come away with two stud de's in one draft if we committed the resources (1st and a say 4th) to it.

[Mahdi]

I totally disagree with you about DE being a weak FA class.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
For starters, there is a chance Julius Peppers becomes a <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">UFA</st1:place></st1:City>. Being franchised isn’t a sure thing, since if that happens then Jordan Gross hits the free agent market. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t expect <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Carolina</st1:place></st1:City> to not deal with Peters before FA begins, but its at least a possibility. Bertand <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Berry</st1:place></st1:State> could be a great short term stop-gap while Chris Ellis develops (hopefully) or we take a DE earlier in the draft. Antonio Smith is another DE from <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Arizona</st1:place></st1:State> who still has a good amount of upside. Maybe Chris Canty becomes a sought after DE, though he played in a 3-4 at <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">dallas</st1:place></st1:City>. There might not be a lot of depth, but if the Bills are willing to pay they can land a good FA at DE.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
I agree about WR. TJ Who’s Your Momma will be franchised, and I think Antonio Bryant will be as well if no long term deal is worked out. <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Buffalo</st1:place></st1:City> needs to get like a decent vet #3 WR not only for competition but if Hardy stays hurt and/or Johnson doesn’t take that next step. Id like to see them bring in someone like a Hank BAskett or Nate Washington for that role. I dont think Buffalo NEEDS to spend alot of money at WR via FA.
<o:p> </o:p>
I have thought, and still think Tight End is the most important position on offense right now, when you factor in our offensive philosophy, or at least what it SHOULD be (strong running game, lots of intermediate routes in the middle for QB Trent Edwards). I would love to get Scaife (<st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Tenn</st1:place></st1:State>)<o:p></o:p>

But I would still prefer a strong DE at #11 right now over anything else, and coming back with a center in round 2, if we don’t sign Jason Brown, the top FA in the market I realistically want Buffalo to get. Yer right this is a deep draft Center class. But if you get Jason brown you dont have to worry about center. Bring back DUke to be a backup.

But if you take a DE at #11, what do you do with the rest? Everything I've read says Schobel and Kelsay aren't getting cut, and Denny is coming back. Already got Ellis on the roster. If we take a DE at 11, I would think someone has to go.
Carolina will keep both Gross and Peppers.

Antonio Smith is not an edge rusher, he is a power end who weighs in at 285. He is a 3-4 DE and thats how the Cards use him.

Bertrand Berry is going to be 34 by the time next season starts, not a wise investment.

Canty is a 3-4 DE so what can he do for the Bills?

So although you disagree with the weakness of the FA class of DEs it is weak.

And Suggs will be signed or Franchised as well.


As for WR. Houshmandzadeh will be getting a big contract from someone and seeing as how the Bills just paid Lee, they wont be paying another big contract to a WR. Antonio Bryant is going to be either re-signed by the Bucs or will go to someone who will overpay for him because of what he did this season.


If/when we draft a DE the cut will be Copeland Bryan. That would give us Schobel, Kelsay, Ellis, #11 pick, Denney, which is a realistic # of DEs to carry.

[patmoran2006]

Carolina will keep both Gross and Peppers.

Antonio Smith is not an edge rusher, he is a power end who weighs in at 285. He is a 3-4 DE and thats how the Cards use him.

Bertrand Berry is going to be 34 by the time next season starts, not a wise investment.

Canty is a 3-4 DE so what can he do for the Bills?

So although you disagree with the weakness of the FA class of DEs it is weak.

And Suggs will be signed or Franchised as well.


As for WR. Houshmandzadeh will be getting a big contract from someone and seeing as how the Bills just paid Lee, they wont be paying another big contract to a WR. Antonio Bryant is going to be either re-signed by the Bucs or will go to someone who will overpay for him because of what he did this season.


If/when we draft a DE the cut will be either Copeland Bryan. That would give us Schobel, Kelsay, Ellis, #11 pick, Denney, which is a realistic # of DEs to carry.
Did you watch Berry eat alive the Falcons? I dont care how old he is, he'd be a great short term DE for Ellis or a drafted guy.

And you positive Carolina will get Peters and Gross both back?

[Mahdi]

I totally disagree with you about DE being a weak FA class.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
For starters, there is a chance Julius Peppers becomes a <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">UFA</st1:place></st1:City>. Being franchised isn’t a sure thing, since if that happens then Jordan Gross hits the free agent market. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t expect <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Carolina</st1:place></st1:City> to not deal with Peters before FA begins, but its at least a possibility. Bertand <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Berry</st1:place></st1:State> could be a great short term stop-gap while Chris Ellis develops (hopefully) or we take a DE earlier in the draft. Antonio Smith is another DE from <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Arizona</st1:place></st1:State> who still has a good amount of upside. Maybe Chris Canty becomes a sought after DE, though he played in a 3-4 at <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">dallas</st1:place></st1:City>. There might not be a lot of depth, but if the Bills are willing to pay they can land a good FA at DE.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
I agree about WR. TJ Who’s Your Momma will be franchised, and I think Antonio Bryant will be as well if no long term deal is worked out. <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Buffalo</st1:place></st1:City> needs to get like a decent vet #3 WR not only for competition but if Hardy stays hurt and/or Johnson doesn’t take that next step. Id like to see them bring in someone like a Hank BAskett or Nate Washington for that role. I dont think Buffalo NEEDS to spend alot of money at WR via FA.
<o:p> </o:p>
I have thought, and still think Tight End is the most important position on offense right now, when you factor in our offensive philosophy, or at least what it SHOULD be (strong running game, lots of intermediate routes in the middle for QB Trent Edwards). I would love to get Scaife (<st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Tenn</st1:place></st1:State>)<o:p></o:p>

But I would still prefer a strong DE at #11 right now over anything else, and coming back with a center in round 2, if we don’t sign Jason Brown, the top FA in the market I realistically want Buffalo to get. Yer right this is a deep draft Center class. But if you get Jason brown you dont have to worry about center. Bring back DUke to be a backup.

But if you take a DE at #11, what do you do with the rest? Everything I've read says Schobel and Kelsay aren't getting cut, and Denny is coming back. Already got Ellis on the roster. If we take a DE at 11, I would think someone has to go.
With all the good TEs coming out in this draft I really dont want to sign one. I think we can grab one in the second round and look for a C in the 3rd where there should be at least 1 or 2 good ones still available, there are about 6 strong C in this draft.

[Mahdi]

Did you watch Berry eat alive the Falcons? I dont care how old he is, he'd be a great short term DE for Ellis or a drafted guy.

And you positive Carolina will get Peters and Gross both back?
Peters?

[patmoran2006]

Sorry, meant Peppers.

In one of those "Im at work, typing when I can and shrinking the screen so I'm not seen" modes

[Mahdi]

Sorry, meant Peppers.

In one of those "Im at work, typing when I can and shrinking the screen so I'm not seen" modes
O ok,,, yer a minimizer... like me....



Anyways... I can fully 1000% guarantee you that both Peppers and Gross will be Panthers for the next 5 years, barring injury or tragedy.


They just fixed their OL after moving Gross from RT to LT and drafting Otah. Gross is their best OL.

Peppers IS the Carolina defense, without him they wont go anywhere and they know it. He will be franchised or signed to a Freeney type contract.

[jamze132]

I think the Bills need to spend all the money they have available in FA to fill as many holes as possible. Then you have the ability to draft BPA.

If we suck ass in FA, we will be putting way too much stock into drafting each pick based on NEED and if that player craps out, we are SOL.

Bottom line is we got money, so ****ing spend it on players who have proven they can perform. Even if we sign the best DE or LB available through FA, I'm not opposed to drafting the same position at #11.

[Mahdi]

I think the Bills need to spend all the money they have available in FA to fill as many holes as possible. Then you have the ability to draft BPA.

If we suck ass in FA, we will be putting way too much stock into drafting each pick based on NEED and if that player craps out, we are SOL.

Bottom line is we got money, so ****ing spend it on players who have proven they can perform. Even if we sign the best DE or LB available through FA, I'm not opposed to drafting the same position at #11.
The Bills really dont need that much in order to win most of the games they lost this year.

We need a DE, TE, C in that order. FA can only help us at the C position because its weak at TE and DE anyways.

That being said if we can get a C in FA that allows us to do exactly what we need in the draft.

We should be able to get one of either Orakpo, Michael Johnson or Everette Brown with our #11 and then we can grab BPA with our 2nd round choice. Hopefully that player will be a TE because there are a few good ones in this draft as well.

We do not need to spend a lot of money in FA. What we really need to do is extend Peters and Jackson, maybe sign a C and the rest you take care of in the draft. We could also consider looking at a #2 or #3 receiver in FA depending on Hardy's progress, there arent going to be any big time WRs in FA but there are a few role player type guys that you can get that can contribute like;

Brandon Lloyd, Brandon Jones, Robert Ferguson, Michael Clayton, Drew Carter etc.

[jamze132]

The Bills really dont need that much in order to win most of the games they lost this year.

We need a DE, TE, C in that order. FA can only help us at the C position because its weak at TE and DE anyways.

That being said if we can get a C in FA that allows us to do exactly what we need in the draft.

We should be able to get one of either Orakpo, Michael Johnson or Everette Brown with our #11 and then we can grab BPA with our 2nd round choice. Hopefully that player will be a TE because there are a few good ones in this draft as well.

We do not need to spend a lot of money in FA. What we really need to do is extend Peters and Jackson, maybe sign a C and the rest you take care of in the draft. We could also consider looking at a #2 or #3 receiver in FA depending on Hardy's progress, there arent going to be any big time WRs in FA but there are a few role player type guys that you can get that can contribute like;

Brandon Lloyd, Brandon Jones, Robert Ferguson, Michael Clayton, Drew Carter etc.
I think our needs are C, DE, and TE in that order. Our offense was way worse than our defense this year. And I am a firm believer in solidifying the trenches before branching outwards.

I would like for us to "buy" the best C, LB, and DE available in FA and still draft the best DE or LB available at #11.

I have no problem bringing in another receiver through FA as long as he is an upgrade to at least someone who sees the field on Sundays.

And I totally agree about re-signing Peters and Jackson. Those two guys are going to be an integral part of this offense for years to come if the cards are played right.

[Night Train]

WTF are you talking about ? DE, OLB & C have plenty of solid options for the Bills needs.

Your threads are becoming more ******ed by the day.

[Mahdi]

I think our needs are C, DE, and TE in that order. Our offense was way worse than our defense this year. And I am a firm believer in solidifying the trenches before branching outwards.

I would like for us to "buy" the best C, LB, and DE available in FA and still draft the best DE or LB available at #11.

I have no problem bringing in another receiver through FA as long as he is an upgrade to at least someone who sees the field on Sundays.

And I totally agree about re-signing Peters and Jackson. Those two guys are going to be an integral part of this offense for years to come if the cards are played right.
I dont understand how you figure C to be a higher priority than DE seeing as how we didnt get a wiff of QBs all year, yet our C position improved as the year went on. Preston actually looked like an NFL caliber C at the end of the season, our DEs looked weak from week 1 to week 17. You can get away with average C play but you dont go anywhere without a pass rush.

DE is far and away the most pressing need.

[Night Train]

Preston actually looked like an NFL caliber C at the end of the season
Your dead on that DE is our biggest need but Preston was every bit the swinging door Fowler was at Center.

We have a huge need at Center.

[Mahdi]

Your dead on that DE is our biggest need but Preston was every bit the swinging door Fowler was at Center.

We have a huge need at Center.
I dont deny that we could definitely use an upgrade at C, but Preston in the last 3 or 4 games of the season was dominant. He handled both Kris Jenkins and Vince Wilfork.

There's no way Jackson ran for 136 without Preston taking care of Wilfork.

[Tatonka]

I can honestly say you either have absolutely no idea about what you are talking about or are just posting random crap.

it is definately the first one of those two options.

[jamze132]

I dont understand how you figure C to be a higher priority than DE seeing as how we didnt get a wiff of QBs all year, yet our C position improved as the year went on. Preston actually looked like an NFL caliber C at the end of the season, our DEs looked weak from week 1 to week 17. You can get away with average C play but you dont go anywhere without a pass rush.

DE is far and away the most pressing need.
Regardless, I'm hoping we get the best C and DE available through FA.

[HHURRICANE]

Bertand <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Berry</st1:place></st1:State> could be a great short term stop-gap while Chris Ellis develops (hopefully)

I have a better shot at making the olympics than Ellis "developing". You must have been drunk when you wrote this.

[Bone]

Aaron Curry or Everette Brown would have a tremendous impact on our D.

[Pinkerton Security]

I have a better shot at making the olympics than Ellis "developing". You must have been drunk when you wrote this.

you're dead wrong, yet again.


I dont deny that we could definitely use an upgrade at C, but Preston in the last 3 or 4 games of the season was dominant. He handled both Kris Jenkins and Vince Wilfork.

Idk about dominant, but i do have to say i dont remember seeing many major blunders by him, though I admittedly was paying far less attention than I was earlier on in the year.

[jaycorp51]

I would love to see us take a run at Bart Scott. The guy plays with an attitude, something this team is sorely missing. The other guy I would like to see the FO look at is Jason Brown from the Ravens. Rumor has it that Miami is interested in him as well, so it may take a little extra money to gain his interest, but with those additions, I believe we can really focus on DE and then TE, WR etc.

[psubills62]

I have a better shot at making the olympics than Ellis "developing". You must have been drunk when you wrote this.

Just out of curiosity, why doesn't Ellis have any shot at developing? Since I'm assuming you're not Michael Phelps.

As someone pointed out on another board, Justin Tuck had 10 tackles his first year. I guess that means he didn't develop, right? I'm not saying Ellis will be Tuck, but it does take a year or two to adjust to the NFL level. It's stupid to say a guy who just finished his rookie year has no chance at developing.

And I agree with everyone else...you obviously have ZERO clue about the draft. It's loaded at DE, C and WR (yes, we still desperately need a WR, I'm not counting on Steve Johnson to save this franchise). Maybe you'd like to do a little thing called "research" before you make yourself look like a fool.

[DraftBoy]

Well to be fair top both players Tuck was a physical specimen coming out and was considered more of a project than Ellis.