Heres a few guys some rooted against us grabbing

[X-Era]

last year... And then they went and showed why they were worthy:

DeSean Jackson- Yeah, he cant play :rolleyes:

Eddie Royal- Hes not worth a 2nd round pick :rolleyes:

I would take either one of them over Hardy at this point.

Maybe this year we can try to not out think ourselves, and get playmakers regardless if they arent prototypical height or size.

Guys like Orakpo, and Brown come to mind.

Playmakers make plays... period.

[LtFinFan66]

It's easy to make that call after the fact:rolleyes:

[X-Era]

It's easy to make that call after the fact:rolleyes:

Yes, it is.

But you can also take a look at how I felt about both before the draft.

The point isn't about whether we made the right choice or not... its more about some of us trying so hard to point us away from some playmakers because they arent prototypical size.

You could then head down the road of second guessing guys who do have the prototypical size but have some issues like heart.

[FavresShoulder]

Obviously, but the point is the ability of this front office to evaluate talent is sub-standard. There were other receivers available who are now contributing that the Bills could've had instead of Hardy.

[X-Era]

Obviously, but the point is the ability of this front office to evaluate talent is sub-standard. There were other receivers available who are now contributing that the Bills could've had instead of Hardy.

My point is that both these guys looked more like the playmakers we needed than Hardy. But they werent tall enough.

That seems like a really weak ass excuse right about now.

[MikeInRoch]

Judging a Wide Receiver after one year is certainly a great idea.

[X-Era]

Judging a Wide Receiver after one year is certainly a great idea.

No judge, no jury, no nothing.

I simply said that I would take either over Hardy right now.

Thats a straight up comparison of two guys against another when all were rookies.

The better point is that some had these guys WAY below Hardy before the draft.

[Mr. Pink]

Hindsight is definitely 20/20

But

Throughout the past decade we can do this on every single draft pick we've made.

At some point you have to stop and question the talent evaluators that we continue to move forward with year after year for their moves.

[Mitchell55]

Im sorry to say it but look at miami. They were blasted for not taking Quinn and look at how they turned out with ginn. Alot better than Quinn in Cleveland.

[Mahdi]

last year... And then they went and showed why they were worthy:

DeSean Jackson- Yeah, he cant play :rolleyes:

Eddie Royal- Hes not worth a 2nd round pick :rolleyes:

I would take either one of them over Hardy at this point.

Maybe this year we can try to not out think ourselves, and get playmakers regardless if they arent prototypical height or size.

Guys like Orakpo, and Brown come to mind.

Playmakers make plays... period.
In a year from now you can be looking back at this thread thinking how glad you are that we drafted Hardy.

How do you know he wont have a breakout season next year and become a dominant WR? Just like we didnt know how much better Desean and Eddie were going to be this year.

[Mr. Pink]

In a year from now you can be looking back at this thread thinking how glad you are that we drafted Hardy.

How do you know he wont have a breakout season next year and become a dominant WR? Just like we didnt know how much better Desean and Eddie were going to be this year.


I can guarantee you we won't be saying that next year.

In fact, you can probably even make the very same guarantee.

It's simple....Hardy likely won't play much next year, if at all. Torn ACL = he's probably done for the year.

With that injury and the position he plays, his career might even be basically over. Never to amount to the fruition it possibly could have.

Thing is from what we saw in him, it's not really a major blow to our offense.

And injury not withstanding, Hardy was outperformed by guys like Davone Bess.

[superbills]

Im sorry to say it but look at miami. They were blasted for not taking Quinn and look at how they turned out with ginn. Alot better than Quinn in Cleveland.

Ummm...Quinn has hardly played. You're comparing a QB to a WR. The WR has started since day 1 of being drafted. Quinn has barely seen the field. This comparison is way off.

[John Doe]

It's simple....Hardy likely won't play much next year, if at all. Torn ACL = he's probably done for the year.

With that injury and the position he plays, his career might even be basically over. Never to amount to the fruition it possibly could have.


I doubt that his career is over due to the torn ACL - there are plenty of young players that have come back from them.

Ronnie Brown had one last year and looked pretty good this season.

McGahee came back from much worse.

Michael Irvine had a pretty good career after suffering one in his first season.

[homeslice5484]

we got stevie johnson, he will play over hardy next year

[Tatonka]

My point is that both these guys looked more like the playmakers we needed than Hardy. But they werent tall enough.

That seems like a really weak ass excuse right about now.

are you trying to say that hardy didnt look like a playmaker in college?

i think your full of ****.

[PECKERWOOD]

I think we were worried as fans that Jackson would have been another Shaud Williams.

[Marvelous]

last year... And then they went and showed why they were worthy:

DeSean Jackson- Yeah, he cant play :rolleyes:

Eddie Royal- Hes not worth a 2nd round pick :rolleyes:

I would take either one of them over Hardy at this point.

Maybe this year we can try to not out think ourselves, and get playmakers regardless if they arent prototypical height or size.

Guys like Orakpo, and Brown come to mind.

Playmakers make plays... period.

The Bills are also stupid for passing up on Terrell Davis
:rolleyes:

[jmb1099]

So is the whole point in starting this thread an attempt to obtain some kind of recognition or vindication or something?
Hardy tore his Acl, who could have predicted that happening? I know he dropped some catchable passes before that as did other rookies (and vets for that matter) this year. Our main issue is coaching and management... fix that and we're in business

[Night Train]

We should have drafted Joe Montana in Round 2 of 1979.

I called it.

[X-Era]

are you trying to say that hardy didnt look like a playmaker in college?

i think your full of ****.

NO, Im saying that I liked both Jackson and Royal better. And so far, I still do.

[X-Era]

So is the whole point in starting this thread an attempt to obtain some kind of recognition or vindication or something?
Hardy tore his Acl, who could have predicted that happening? I know he dropped some catchable passes before that as did other rookies (and vets for that matter) this year. Our main issue is coaching and management... fix that and we're in business

I could care less about any of that.

My point is that we should be looking for playmakers redardless of things like prototypical size. Both DeSean and Royal make that point, they are flat out players.

Mark my words, you will here some people saying we shouldnt draft such and so just because they dont have prototypical size or speed even when they have proven more on the field.

[yordad]

Yeah, good thing we didn't draft DRC (cb). He had prototypical size and speed. Did he even make the Cards team?

[DraftBoy]

Your point doesnt fit because both Jackson and Royal have good QB's throwing them the balls and onyl Royal went to a team with a #1 comparable to ours in Marshall. Also the system both play in is different from ours, Philly likes the pass a lot despite having a good RB, and Denver is a ZBS WCO scheme which is also different from ours. Also both Jackson and Royal were more polished than Hardy coming out, Jackson started more than Hardy did and cooled off significantly after his bye week having only three games with 5 of more catches, no games of 100+ receiving yards and only one TD. Royal stayed more consistent. Both players have excelled rookie expectations by far, but lets keep in mind that its year 1, hell Donnie Avery had a hell of a year, did anybody call him as the top WR to be taken? Give guys like Sweed, Thomas, Kelly, Hardy and others a year or two and then revisist this. Until then its just another attention thread.

[mysticsoto]

Your point doesnt fit because both Jackson and Royal have good QB's throwing them the balls and onyl Royal went to a team with a #1 comparable to ours in Marshall. Also the system both play in is different from ours, Philly likes the pass a lot despite having a good RB, and Denver is a ZBS WCO scheme which is also different from ours. Also both Jackson and Royal were more polished than Hardy coming out, Jackson started more than Hardy did and cooled off significantly after his bye week having only three games with 5 of more catches, no games of 100+ receiving yards and only one TD. Royal stayed more consistent. Both players have excelled rookie expectations by far, but lets keep in mind that its year 1, hell Donnie Avery had a hell of a year, did anybody call him as the top WR to be taken? Give guys like Sweed, Thomas, Kelly, Hardy and others a year or two and then revisist this. Until then its just another attention thread.

Actually, I believe I might have mentioned it to you...that he might be worth a low 1st rounder... :D I know I ranked him much higher than you did.

Nevertheless, your pt still stands. Philly has a pass happy offense...of course *ANY* WR on their team is going to be made to look good. Royal did surprise a bit, but none of that means that Hardy won't be a playmaker in the future. Rookie years are never indications of what a player is going to be throughout his career.

[justasportsfan]

last year... And then they went and showed why they were worthy:

DeSean Jackson- Yeah, he cant play :rolleyes:

Eddie Royal- Hes not worth a 2nd round pick :rolleyes:

I would take either one of them over Hardy at this point.

Maybe this year we can try to not out think ourselves, and get playmakers regardless if they arent prototypical height or size.

Guys like Orakpo, and Brown come to mind.

Playmakers make plays... period.


we could've brought them all in and we'd still suck because we wouldn't know what to do with them. WE drafted HArdy because of his height and did nothing with it. Hardy would've been a better player elsewhere.

[homeslice5484]

Stevie Johnson! He will be better than hardy, count on it!

[ddaryl]

I still scratch my head in regards to Hardy. All that height and he rarely used it. You have to t be questionng the coaching here, as most everyone here felt that Hardy's height would have been used much more often. Yet when we did try to go to him he tried to use finesse instead of body positioning and height advantage. Good coaching would have had him master the art of using his body and height in his rookie year IMO. Never really saw that in 2008

[jamze132]

last year... And then they went and showed why they were worthy:

DeSean Jackson- Yeah, he cant play :rolleyes:

Eddie Royal- Hes not worth a 2nd round pick :rolleyes:

I would take either one of them over Hardy at this point.

Maybe this year we can try to not out think ourselves, and get playmakers regardless if they arent prototypical height or size.

Guys like Orakpo, and Brown come to mind.

Playmakers make plays... period.
On the other hand, 32 teams skipped Fred Jackson and Jason Peters 7 times.

The draft is a crap shoot. Who's to say that DeSean Jackson or Eddie Royal would have been as successful in our offense as they were in theirs?

Who's to say Hardy won't turn into a stud when healthy? Steve Johnson was a 7th rounder and everyone seems to be high on him... Again, the draft is a crap shoot and hindsight is always 20/20.

[X-Era]

On the other hand, 32 teams skipped Fred Jackson and Jason Peters 7 times.

The draft is a crap shoot. Who's to say that DeSean Jackson or Eddie Royal would have been as successful in our offense as they were in theirs?

Who's to say Hardy won't turn into a stud when healthy? Steve Johnson was a 7th rounder and everyone seems to be high on him... Again, the draft is a crap shoot and hindsight is always 20/20.
If your looking for me to say that anyone has all the answers prior to the draft, you will be waiting a very very long time. THAT is EXACTLY my point. It is nothing but a crap shoot where no one knows what any player will turn out to be.

That is exactly why its so ridiculous for anyone to try to state anything as fact when it comes to the draft. Its flat out stupid. All the preparation in the world wont give you anything more than an educated guess. Kind of like Rhode scholars playing the lottery.

And thats also why I will say again that we ought to do everything we can to get the best damn playmakers that we can regardless of the supposed "issues" that some may try to find.

Let the supposed know it alls make claims about players. The people who speak that matter of factly end up with the biggest eggs on their faces when they are wrong.

This list was meant to simply point out that fact. That you can try to stake claim to facts about players, but until they show you what they have on the field when the bullets fly, its simply working out your vocal cords after mentaly masturbating.

[TedMock]

Your point doesnt fit because both Jackson and Royal have good QB's throwing them the balls and onyl Royal went to a team with a #1 comparable to ours in Marshall. Also the system both play in is different from ours, Philly likes the pass a lot despite having a good RB, and Denver is a ZBS WCO scheme which is also different from ours. Also both Jackson and Royal were more polished than Hardy coming out, Jackson started more than Hardy did and cooled off significantly after his bye week having only three games with 5 of more catches, no games of 100+ receiving yards and only one TD. Royal stayed more consistent. Both players have excelled rookie expectations by far, but lets keep in mind that its year 1, hell Donnie Avery had a hell of a year, did anybody call him as the top WR to be taken? Give guys like Sweed, Thomas, Kelly, Hardy and others a year or two and then revisist this. Until then its just another attention thread.

You can add 5'10" 182 lbs and 5'10" 175 lbs, respectively, to Royal and Jackson. Everybody thought they would be decent WR's. Everybody also thought Kelly, Sweed and Hardy would be decent WR's. First, it's way too early to tell. Second, nobody thought we needed another Lee Evans. The majority of the fans would have flipped out and complained that we got another 5'10" guy who won't help in the redzone. We needed a compliment to Lee Evans and the rest of our 5'10" WR corp. Sweed, Hardy and Kelly were the big-bodied redzone guys that fit the mold we were looking for. All else being equal, we had to go after a bigger guy. If we could predict who the absoulute hall of fame lock is, even better, but impossible. Some of these guys will wash out, but it will be a couple of years before we really know.

[X-Era]

Your point doesnt fit because both Jackson and Royal have good QB's throwing them the balls and onyl Royal went to a team with a #1 comparable to ours in Marshall. Also the system both play in is different from ours, Philly likes the pass a lot despite having a good RB, and Denver is a ZBS WCO scheme which is also different from ours. Also both Jackson and Royal were more polished than Hardy coming out, Jackson started more than Hardy did and cooled off significantly after his bye week having only three games with 5 of more catches, no games of 100+ receiving yards and only one TD. Royal stayed more consistent. Both players have excelled rookie expectations by far, but lets keep in mind that its year 1, hell Donnie Avery had a hell of a year, did anybody call him as the top WR to be taken? Give guys like Sweed, Thomas, Kelly, Hardy and others a year or two and then revisist this. Until then its just another attention thread.

Ahhh, right.... the classic "its all the teams they play on" excuse. System they went to... Who the #1 is... Thats excuses to divert attention from missing the call on the them. When anyone makes statements like:

"Desean Jackson is Ted Ginn with even less polish, only playmaking he'll be doing is off the punt returns."

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=144612&highlight=jackson

Just a response to comments like: "Until then its just another attention thread."

[X-Era]

You can add 5'10" 182 lbs and 5'10" 175 lbs, respectively, to Royal and Jackson. Everybody thought they would be decent WR's. Everybody also thought Kelly, Sweed and Hardy would be decent WR's. First, it's way too early to tell. Second, nobody thought we needed another Lee Evans. The majority of the fans would have flipped out and complained that we got another 5'10" guy who won't help in the redzone. We needed a compliment to Lee Evans and the rest of our 5'10" WR corp. Sweed, Hardy and Kelly were the big-bodied redzone guys that fit the mold we were looking for. All else being equal, we had to go after a bigger guy. If we could predict who the absoulute hall of fame lock is, even better, but impossible. Some of these guys will wash out, but it will be a couple of years before we really know.
We wont know for a couple years... thats true. We will never know what they could have done for us this year... true as well.

But, I think we should have placed each players ability to play the position over size. Each one looked to be more of a playmaker IMO then Hardy was. Hardy had the size. We wanted it... so as to add a possession type to complement Evans... I can understand the thought process. I just feel that this year, there will be guys that make plays but arent prototypical size and that we should be looking at their playmaking ability over those factors.

Guys like Everette Brown are an example.

[streetkings01]

Judging a Wide Receiver after one year is certainly a great idea.Charles Rogers, Mike Williams, Robert Meachem, Dwayne Jarrett?:idunno:

[TedMock]

We wont know for a couple years... thats true. We will never know what they could have done for us this year... true as well.

But, I think we should have placed each players ability to play the position over size. Each one looked to be more of a playmaker IMO then Hardy was. Hardy had the size. We wanted it... so as to add a possession type to complement Evans... I can understand the thought process. I just feel that this year, there will be guys that make plays but arent prototypical size and that we should be looking at their playmaking ability over those factors.

Guys like Everette Brown are an example.

I can see both arguments as well. I'd rather have success over measureables any day. I don't disagree with the Bills thought process either though. Whatever works.

[JetSet24]

You guys are way off on Hardy. I am a huge big 10 fan, and I for one thought he was going to be the next Plaxico Burress.

If Hardy went to school at Michigan or Ohio State he would've been a 1st round pick for sure. He played on a horrible Indiana team, and dominated from his freshman year on.

The Indiana QB Kellen Lewis looked like a player last season when he had Hardy. Without Hardy they actually forced him to switch positions.

Just because DeSean Jackson got more headlines on ESPN doesn't mean that he was a better college player than James Hardy. The only reason Hardy slipped to the 2nd round was character concerns... which look to be legit.


Just remember.. James Hardy was the only player Big 10 teams feared on Indiana, and he still put up huge numbers.

Don't give up on him yet.

[jaycorp51]

We needed a tall red zone threat, hence the pick of Hardy.

Jackson and Royal did better because they are playing with an offensive scheme that is actually productive. You could put either one of those guys on this team and I can basically guarantee they have comparable stats to Hardy.