Arizona...

[Typ0]

Arizona gets an MVP caliber performance from the QB position and suddenly they have to play one game, at home, for a trip to the Superbowl. Go figure.

[Typ0]

Look at them now. They got MVP play from the QB position and they are playing, at home, for a trip to the superbowl.

[warsawbassman]

yeah.........remember when the Lions, Card's, and Bills were the 3 "loser" teams of the 2000's..............ahhhhhh the good ol' days

[SabreEleven]

2 out of 3 ain't bad...

[Turbo.GUN.Hawk!]

So you are basically saying all we need to go to the Superbowl is to get Mike Gandy back to Buffalo?

[SquishDaFish]

Did you need 2 threads to say the same damn thing?

[Typ0]

no...an MVP QB.

[Typ0]

Did you need 2 threads to say the same damn thing?


hmmm...I thought I looked and the other thread was missing. My mistake.

[OpIv37]

Well, we're not going to get MVP play out of the QB any time in the foreseeable future, so we need to find a coach who can win despite that.

And BTW, don't make me go down the list of teams that have won with average QB play again. Having an MVP QB is not the only way to win football games, and it doesn't guarantee winning. Case and point: Rob Johnson, Brad Johnson, Doug Williams, Mark Rypien and Trent Dilfer have Super Bowl rings. Jim Kelly and Dan Marino do not.

[Typ0]

Well, we're not going to get MVP play out of the QB any time in the foreseeable future, so we need to find a coach who can win despite that.

And BTW, don't make me go down the list of teams that have won with average QB play again. Having an MVP QB is not the only way to win football games, and it doesn't guarantee winning. Case and point: Rob Johnson, Brad Johnson, Doug Williams, Mark Rypien and Trent Dilfer have Super Bowl rings. Jim Kelly and Dan Marino do not.


all of the guys you cited played mistake free above average QB for their teams to win. Williams and Rypien don't even belong in that group. Rob Johnson got his ring riding the pine. No coach is going to overcome poor QB play.

[lukabrossi]

Ther superbowl Bills lost to the Giants with a quarterback named Hostetler.........remember him? Yeah, neither do I.....a fly-by-night, poor man's Phil Simms and yet, he's got a superbowl ring.
What about Mark Rypien?.........are you kidding me?.....Mark Rypien?......unbelieveable.
And yet the Bills couldn't beat either one of these teams for a superbowl win, with nameless and obviously forgetful quarterbacks. The Bills had a good team back then....and we still believe that the present day Bills are gonna go to the big dance anytime soon?........WAKE UP.

[DraftBoy]

They got a rookie CB who is playing out of his mind right now too helping to match up v. the other teams #1 WR part of the time. You may know his name...DRC.

2 playoff games:
10 Tackles, 2 INT,1 PD leading to another INT.

He's not the lone reason they are winning, a lot of it right now is coaching and Warner but he's playing extremely well for a rookie in the playoffs.

[Typ0]

Hos in the superbowl: 20-32, 222yds, 1td, no turnovers.

And you guys are smoking some serious grass trying to refute my arguements with Rypien. During the SB season he threw for 3,564 yards and 28 touchdowns with 11 interceptions. He was the SB MVP for christ sakes. You're going to tell me the difference between that performance and Rob Johnson, JP Losserman, Trent Edwards or Drew Bledsoe is negligible? Like hell. Any of those four QBs and the redskins are 8-8 that year except maybe Bledsoe who might get them another win or two but choke in the playoffs.

Face it guys, the QBs you want to use to make your arguements had stellar seasons at least for themselves in all cases when their teams won the superbowl. There has NEVER been an occurrance of a team overcomming consistently crappy play from the QB to win the SB. NEVER!

[DraftBoy]

Hos in the superbowl: 20-32, 222yds, 1td, no turnovers.

And you guys are smoking some serious grass trying to refute my arguements with Rypien. During the SB season he threw for 3,564 yards and 28 touchdowns with 11 interceptions. He was the SB MVP for christ sakes. You're going to tell me the difference between that performance and Rob Johnson, JP Losserman, Trent Edwards or Drew Bledsoe is negligible? Like hell. Any of those four QBs and the redskins are 8-8 that year except maybe Bledsoe who might get them another win or two but choke in the playoffs.

Face it guys, the QBs you want to use to make your arguements had stellar seasons at least for themselves in all cases when their teams won the superbowl. There has NEVER been an occurrance of a team overcomming consistently crappy play from the QB to win the SB. NEVER!

Ravens in 2000 with Dilfer;

134-226, 1502 yards, 12 TD, 11 INT, 8 Fumbles

That's pretty consistent crappy QB play if you ask me.

[Typ0]

Ravens in 2000 with Dilfer;

134-226, 1502 yards, 12 TD, 11 INT, 8 Fumbles

That's pretty consistent crappy QB play if you ask me.


I thought it was right on average. It was average. And I bet if you look at the league historical numbers it's even above average. But we'll call it average. And this is the ONLY example and that defense was off the charts. They could win games by scoring three points! It's clearly a one in a million exception to the rule not something you use to proclaim there is any historical trend going on.

[Turbo.GUN.Hawk!]

Rob Johnson? I think you mean Brad Johnson.

I hate extremes by the way, you don't necessary need a elite qb to win a SB but you still need a capable qb. It wouldn't hurt to have an elite qb though.

[Turbo.GUN.Hawk!]

And just for the record back in 2002 Brad Johnson had the best quaterback rating of all. I think that proves that a capable quaterback in the right system with the kick-ass defense might win you something... but then again you need the right system and the kick-ass defense.

Even if Trent is the capable guy we are looking for I don't think he has the system or the defense to go anywhere.

[Mr. Pink]

Ravens in 2000 with Dilfer;

134-226, 1502 yards, 12 TD, 11 INT, 8 Fumbles

That's pretty consistent crappy QB play if you ask me.


Ravens in 2000 with a guy named Tony Banks

150-274 1578 yards 8 TD 8 INT 5 Fumbles

5-3 record with Banks...7-1 with Dilfer.


If the Ravens don't make the switch to Dilfer, they likely don't win the SB. As it was they didn't score a TD in the last 4 games Banks played.

So, while Dilfer was average, he was much better than Banks...and a major reason why the team won the SB. As much as anyone would like to discredit Dilfers performance.

[lukabrossi]

...i don't think he has the talent to go anywhere.

[justasportsfan]

Yeah, Kurt drew the entire playbook himself too and the coaches have nothing to do with it.

Kurt also singlehandedly shutdown JAke.

Typo is stil trying to blame our woes solely on the qb and attempting to tell us our coaches have nothing to do with it.

The cards made Breaston (a 5th rd draft pick) into a 1,000 yard wr only in his second year and their schemes have nothing to do with it. /sarcasm.

[Turbo.GUN.Hawk!]

I blame Mike Gandy.

[lukabrossi]

I blame myself for standing behind this team for soooooooooooooo long and refusing to read the writing on the wall, that they are going nowhere.......and yet i kept sinking my hard-earned money into a franchise that has obviously turned it's back on the fans.
I blame myself.

[Mr. Pink]

Yeah, Kurt drew the entire playbook himself too and the coaches have nothing to do with it.

Kurt also singlehandedly shutdown JAke.

Typo is stil trying to blame our woes solely on the qb and attempting to tell us our coaches have nothing to do with it.

The cards made Breaston (a 5th rd draft pick) into a 1,000 yard wr only in his second year and their schemes have nothing to do with it. /sarcasm.


I still love how you can never, ever give the talent any credit...or blame for that matter.

If a player is good it's coaching, if a player sucks it's coaching.

No player ever has any accountability for what they do according to you.

What is the HOF for in your opinion then? Players who had good coaches?

[justasportsfan]

I still love how you can never, ever give the talent any credit...or blame for that matter.

If a player is good it's coaching, if a player sucks it's coaching.

No player ever has any accountability for what they do according to you.

What is the HOF for in your opinion then? Players who had good coaches?

I've blamed Trent plenty of times. You're making up lies again. Unlike you however I can see that he's been set up to fail. He's had his faults but anyone who thinks our coaches have nothing to do with the state of this team , is clueless.

[Mr. Pink]

I've blamed Trent plenty of times. You're making up lies again.

You blame no one on this team outside of the coaches. Are you serious with this post or just dillusional?

You've stated numerous that no QB could succeed here with the merry go round of coaches. None of our defensive players can succeed because the scheme is broken. Our offense sucks because of the playcalling. etc, etc, etc.

[justasportsfan]

You blame no one on this team outside of the coaches. Are you serious with this post or just dillusional?

You've stated numerous that no QB could succeed here with the merry go round of coaches. None of our defensive players can succeed because the scheme is broken. Our offense sucks because of the playcalling. etc, etc, etc.


I blamed Trent for his performance against the browns. I have proof. I partly blamed him for other losses too. I have proof. You are a liar.

[Mr. Pink]

I blamed Trent for his performance against the browns. I have proof. I partly blamed him for other losses too. I have proof. You are a liar.


Just look in the Here's some guys rooted against thread for your REAL opinion.

And I quote....

"NO ONE COULD SUCCEED HERE. HARDY WOULD BE BETTER ELSEWHERE."

[justasportsfan]

Just look in the Here's some guys rooted against thread for your REAL opinion.

And I quote....

"NO ONE COULD SUCCEED HERE. HARDY WOULD BE BETTER ELSEWHERE."


Where are we after 3 years? Have we succeeded at all after 3 years? NO. We got beaten by a team thats rebuilding. It's not like Dick is in his first year. Look where we're at after 3 years. 0-6 in the division.Last in the division.

As usual you hate the results because they are facts and all you have is your opinion.
I'll tkae the facts before I ever listen to your opinion just like "JP handed the ball to Lynch's thigh" Classic lie.

[Typ0]

Yes, and thank you. Thank you TD too as you two have nicely helped to make the point I've been trying to make all along. It's not that you need an MVP QB all along...but an MVP QB will make things look really good when without them the team is a complete failure. The bottom line is you need competence from the QB and without it everything is going to look bad.


Ravens in 2000 with a guy named Tony Banks

150-274 1578 yards 8 TD 8 INT 5 Fumbles

5-3 record with Banks...7-1 with Dilfer.


If the Ravens don't make the switch to Dilfer, they likely don't win the SB. As it was they didn't score a TD in the last 4 games Banks played.

So, while Dilfer was average, he was much better than Banks...and a major reason why the team won the SB. As much as anyone would like to discredit Dilfers performance.

[Turbo.GUN.Hawk!]

So we need a competent qb to win? Ah, I think we knew that lol.

[justasportsfan]

If the Ravens don't make the switch to Dilfer, they likely don't win the SB. As it was they didn't score a TD in the last 4 games Banks played.

So, while Dilfer was average, he was much better than Banks...and a major reason why the team won the SB. As much as anyone would like to discredit Dilfers performance.


and who made the decision to make the switch? The coaches. Coaches aren;t 100% right all the time but the good ones at least know when to pull the plug .

The coaches picked Trent. The coaches talked up Trent. The coaches decided to stay with Trent when there were other qb's to be had both in FA and draft like..... Flacco.

No one here can tell me Flacco has more experience and is more talented than Trent. The difference is, Cam Cameron vs. Turk.

[Turbo.GUN.Hawk!]

I think justasportsfan has a valid point but I would not limit myself to coaching, but to our General Manager (do we even have a GM?).

1) The owner hires a General Manager to run the team.
2) The GM hires a coach to train the team.
3) The coach hires a bunch of players to win.

So now you failed and who are you to blame?

I say the captain is responsible for the entire ship.

[justasportsfan]

I think justasportsfan has a valid point but I would not limit myself to coaching, but to our General Manager (do we even have a GM?).

1) The owner hires a General Manager to run the team.
2) The GM hires a coach to train the team.
3) The coach hires a bunch of players to win.

So now you failed and who are you to blame?

I say the captain is responsible for the entire ship.

It goes all the way to the top.

I think Ralphy would rather die with Dick as the HC than start all over again . He's too old to start all over again.

[Typ0]

So we need a competent qb to win? Ah, I think we knew that lol.

even though it's pretty clear when we got competent QB play we got W's and when we got incompetent play we got L's some people seem to think the W's are because the QB overcame the bad coaching and the L's are because the coaching was bad. We havent' had consistent & competent QB play in years. Even Bledsoe would be competent 80% of the time but blow 20% of the games which shot us in the foot.

[lukabrossi]

...we need a q.b. who doesn't play scared.

[DraftBoy]

Ummmm just to note Flacco is more talented then Trent. Better arm, better vision, better durability. Accuracy is close but I think Trent takes it. Both have ball security issues but as far as decision making goes I think its a toss up too given Trent's inconsistencies v. Flacco's growth in that department over his rookie year. At this point I'd take Flacco and not even have to think about it.

[justasportsfan]

Ummmm just to note Flacco is more talented then Trent. Better arm, better vision, better durability. Accuracy is close but I think Trent takes it. Both have ball security issues but as far as decision making goes I think its a toss up too given Trent's inconsistencies v. Flacco's growth in that department over his rookie year. At this point I'd take Flacco and not even have to think about it.
not according to our decision makers . They passsed on him and went with Trent who they said was all that and a bag of chips.

[DraftBoy]

Well our decision makers suck to begin with.

[justasportsfan]

Well our decision makers suck to begin with.

No, it's all talent. The talent is not performing and it's the players fault. The coaches' hands are tied. They are helpless in this situation. They can't do anything about it when the players they picked decides to not perform.