Draft Defense

[Bill Cody]

Of the 4 teams left:

Pitt #1 rated defense
Baltimore #2 rated defense
Philadelphia #3 rated defense

Add to that the Buffalo climate which can make counting on offense to win risky at best and it says we need to draft D until we have the talent level of the 3 teams above. People can talk about coaching and it's a factor but if anyone wants to argue we have the talent level of those 3 teams they are clueless. Getting that talent has to be job 1. Is Modrak up to the challenge? Doesn't look like it does it? We need to upgrade our talent evaluators before we worry about who the coach is.

[BuffaloBillsStampede]

One thing they all have in common is they blitz the hall out of the QB. Do we ever blitz? Mitchell is perfect for blitzing and I think POZ is pretty good there too, but we use them completely wrong.

[justasportsfan]

Of the 4 teams left:

Pitt #1 rated defense
Baltimore #2 rated defense
Philadelphia #3 rated defense

.
you need coaches.

[Bill Cody]

you need coaches.

We have no pass rush. Great defenses can get pressure without blitzing, and can get extreme pressure with blitzing. We get no pressure without blitzing and even with blitzing it's not great. Scheme is important but you've got to have the talent. We need pass rushers. Or are you saying Lebeau or Johnson could come to Buffalo and turn our collection of white DE's into a top 5 D? Ridiculous.

[justasportsfan]

We have no pass rush. Great defenses can get pressure without blitzing, and can get extreme pressure with blitzing. We get no pressure without blitzing and even with blitzing it's not great. Scheme is important but you've got to have the talent. We need pass rushers. Or are you saying Lebeau or Johnson could come to Buffalo and turn our collection of white DE's into a top 5 D? Ridiculous.
I agree.

Dick Lebeau did that when he was here . He made our D tops. When he went back to Pitts , he made their D no. 1.

[Bill Cody]

I agree.

Dick Lebeau did that when he was here . He made our D tops. When he went back to Pitts , he made their D no. 1.

So we have as good players on D as Pitt? Tell me you're joking please.

[justasportsfan]

So we have as good players on D as Pitt? Tell me you're joking please.
Did I say that? NO.

Why don't we have better players than they do or at least close to it when our coaches had 3 years to do so ? Who decided to start Ko Simpson or keep Wilson and get rid of Jim Leonard? Leonard may not be a Palumalu but he seems to be doing better than any of our safeties .

Who decided to keep Kelsay and pay him that huge amount? I'm sure Dick had a hand in that.

One things for sure, they have better coaches than we do. Our Dick couldn't hold their Dicks jock.

[Bill Cody]

Did I say that? NO.

Why don't we have better players than they do or at least close to it when our coaches had 3 years to do so ? Who decided to start Ko Simpson or keep Wilson and get rid of Jim Leonard? Leonard may not be a Palumalu but he seems to be doing better than any of our safeties .

Who decided to keep Kelsay and pay him that huge amount? I'm sure Dick had a hand in that.

One things for sure, they have better coaches than we do. Our Dick couldn't hold their Dicks jock.

We don't have the talent now we had when Lebeau was here, you know that. I agree great coaching helps. But at the end of the day you still can't turn chicken **** into chicken salad. Our safeties or corners will never look great until we add some pressure players, period.

[justasportsfan]

We don't have the talent now we had when Lebeau was here, you know that. I agree great coaching helps. But at the end of the day you still can't turn chicken **** into chicken salad. Our safeties or corners will never look great until we add some pressure players, period.
I don't disagree with that. My problem is that I doubt the brains behind this team are able to make proper judgement in choosing the right talent if our talent now supposedly sucks.

the brains of this team including the coaches had 3 years to build this team. We reggressed. They are slowly making Donahoes decisions look competent. If our talent sucks then whos to blame for bringing them in? Whos' to say they won't make the same mistake in this years draft?

Who decided to get rid of the talent from Donahoe's era?

[BuffaloBillsStampede]

I really want to switch to a 3-4 defense, and I would be willing to sit through a couple rebuilding years to do so. It just seems like the 3-4 is way more disruptive than most other defenses and especially the cover 2 which has got to be the worst defense. Cover 2 pretty much means if you dont create a turnover then you might as well give them at least 3 points per drive.

[Bill Cody]

I don't disagree with that. My problem is that I doubt the brains behind this team are able to make proper judgement in choosing the right talent if our talent now supposedly sucks.

the brains of this team including the coaches had 3 years to build this team. We reggressed. They are slowly making Donahoes decisions look competent.

Coaches don't draft. If we drafted as well as NE or Philly or NYG or Pitt we'd be sniffing the playoffs even with so so Jauron. Let Parcells run this team for a year and we'd be in the hunt.

[justasportsfan]

Coaches don't draft. If we drafted as well as NE or Philly or NYG or Pitt we'd be sniffing the playoffs even with so so Jauron. Let Parcells run this team for a year and we'd be in the hunt.


Coaches don't draft but they do have input or they have no business being at the combine.

They don't draft but they sure can turn a very inexperienced qb in Cassel into a better qb than Trent just like they were able to make their depleted rb stable no. 6 in the NFL and yet we end up no 14 only because Lynch is able to move the ball with 3-4 defenders riding on his back.

[jamze132]

I would like to say that considering the elements that the Bills play in during the winter months, defense should be the #1 part of our team. The cover 2 needs to go away. Period. I would like to run a 3-4 as most QBs in the NFL don't have their best games against consistently.

I do think we need to draft with a "defense first" attitude right now as well as make key acquisitions through FA to build the best defense possible.

Defense wins championships.

[Bill Cody]

Coaches don't draft but they do have input or they have no business being at the combine.

They don't draft but they sure can turn a very inexperienced qb in Cassel into a better qb than Trent just like they were able to make their depleted rb stable no. 6 in the NFL and yet we end up no 14 only because Lynch is able to move the ball with 3-4 defenders riding on his back.

Cassell is a good player. If and when NE is satisfied that Brady can play next year they will trade him and get a #1 pick back and rightly so. Bill Bellichick handled his own drafts in Cleveland and he got fired. He has had a lot of help from Pioli in NE.

[justasportsfan]

Defense wins championships.Agreed.



I would like to say that considering the elements that the Bills play in during the winter months, defense should be the #1 part of our team. The cover 2 needs to go away. Period. I would like to run a 3-4 as most QBs in the NFL don't have their best games against consistently.

I do think we need to draft with a "defense first" attitude right now as well as make key acquisitions through FA to build the best defense possible. .

It's not going away which is why it's useless to draft a stud player when the system sucks.

[justasportsfan]

Cassell is a good player. no one here will admit they thought that when Brady went down. He only became a good player because the coaches knew how to turn him into one.


If and when NE is satisfied that Brady can play next year they will trade him and get a #1 pick back and rightly so. Bill Bellichick handled his own drafts in Cleveland and he got fired. He has had a lot of help from Pioli in NE. If Pioli drafted guys like Cassel and Brady in the later rounds, it means he didn't think much of them. BB is the one responsible teaching and molding them into the players they are today.

[PECKERWOOD]

We should draft another undersized, sneaky athletic, white DE this year with our 1st pick.

[Bill Cody]

no one here will admit they thought that when Brady went down. He only became a good player because the coaches knew how to turn him into one.
If Pioli drafted guys like Cassel and Brady in the later rounds, it means he didn't think much of them. BB is the one responsible teaching and molding them into the players they are today.

The talent was always there with Cassell that's why he was recruited to USC. They don't recruit slugs. But the kid never played so how could you know what you had? Seriously, who drafts a QB that never played in college, even in the 7th round? Someone who knows what they're doing obviously. Sure he's been well coached. But put a flying Elvis on JP's helmet and he'd still be a guy with poor mechanics, slow reads and no sense for pressure- you can't coach that.
Brady went late because he barely weighed 200 lbs coming out of college and his arm strength was suspect. He worked his ass off in the gym and improved his arm strength significantly also. But noone ever called him dumb. His accuracy was always good and his leadership was good. He played well against elite competition.

[justasportsfan]

The talent was always there with Cassell that's why he was recruited to USC. They don't recruit slugs. But the kid never played so how could you know what you had? Seriously, who drafts a QB that never played in college, even in the 7th round? Someone who knows what they're doing obviously. Sure he's been well coached. But put a flying Elvis on JP's helmet and he'd still be a guy with poor mechanics, slow reads and no sense for pressure- you can't coach that.
Brady went late because he barely weighed 200 lbs coming out of college and his arm strength was suspect. He worked his ass off in the gym and improved his arm strength significantly also. But noone ever called him dumb. His accuracy was always good and his leadership was good. He played well against elite competition.

In other words he had potential. So did Trent coming out of HS. Trent was touted as the best qb coming out of HS.

If they can turn Cassel into a good qb, I have no doubt they could do the same with Trent which means, they have the coaches, we don't.

[Bill Cody]

In other words he had potential. So did Trent coming out of HS. Trent was touted as the best qb coming out of HS.

If they can turn Cassel into a good qb, I have no doubt they could do the same with Trent which means, they have the coaches, we don't.

They also have a top 5 O line and a top 5 receiving corps. Do we?

[justasportsfan]

They also have a top 5 O line and a top 5 receiving corps. Do we?

whos fault is that? Didn't they have 3 years to do so? It sure didn't take the fins 3 years to have a better O than us.

Who chose our players?

BB would easily make the talent we have better than what they are now under this coaching staff.

You keep insisting that Trent is smart and yet he looked like an idiot vs. weaks D's like the browns.

[Bill Cody]

whos fault is that? Didn't they have 3 years to do so? It sure didn't take the fins 3 years to have a better O than us.

Who chose our players?

BB would easily make the talent we have better than what they are now under this coaching staff.

You keep insisting that Trent is smart and yet he looked like an idiot vs. weaks D's like the browns.

That's the biggest problem- the players. I keep repeating myself but I'm not getting through. We need to upgrade our talent and job 1 is to draft defense. That's the way to win. Do we have the talent evaluators to compete with the top teams? Obviously not. That's why I would've been more interested in us grabbing Pioli than replacing Jauron. Can we win a championship with Jauron? Probably not but Cowher or whoever isn't winning with the team as is, he just isn't. And as I said about TE, the jury's out and what he is. But I think you stick with him for now and HOPE he develops this year. If not we start over again.

[justasportsfan]

That's the biggest problem- the players. I keep repeating myself but I'm not getting through. We need to upgrade our talent and job 1 is to draft defense. That's the way to win. Do we have the talent evaluators to compete with the top teams? Obviously not. That's why I would've been more interested in us grabbing Pioli than replacing Jauron. Can we win a championship with Jauron? Probably not but Cowher or whoever isn't winning with the team as is, he just isn't. And as I said about TE, the jury's out and what he is. But I think you stick with him for now and HOPE he develops this year. If not we start over again.


you can't get through because you keep forgetting who chose to bring in and keep players. Our FO and coaches. Yeah we need need more players but I don't trust our decision makers after 3 years of having a losing record.

I would've started again now. Why prolong the agony? If you haven't realized Jauron isn't a sb coach by now, you never will. He may take us to the playoffs but the goal is the sb.

I defended Dick and gave him the benefit of the doubt for 3 years. He hasn't delivered and the results are bad.

You are one of those I guess who's satisfied with mediocrity if you can even call 3 losing seasons that.

[superbills]

no one here will admit they thought that when Brady went down. He only became a good player because the coaches knew how to turn him into one.
If Pioli drafted guys like Cassel and Brady in the later rounds, it means he didn't think much of them. BB is the one responsible teaching and molding them into the players they are today.

This is true to a degree, but it also means that a guy like Pioli is capable of finding players in the later rounds who have NFL-caliber ability and have the smarts to handle a system like Belichik's. I think the lesson here is you can't pair great players with poor coaching and expect to win, and vice versa. You need both. Sadly, the Bills are lacking in both areas.

[Bill Cody]

you can't get through because you keep forgetting who chose to bring in and keep players. Our FO and coaches. Yeah we need need more players but I don't trust our decision makers after 3 years of having a losing record.

I would've started again now. Why prolong the agony? If you haven't realized Jauron isn't a sb coach by now, you never will. He may take us to the playoffs but the goal is the sb.

I defended Dick and gave him the benefit of the doubt for 3 years. He hasn't delivered and the results are bad.

You are one of those I guess who's satisfied with mediocrity if you can even call 3 losing seasons that.

I think we need a new GM first and foremost. IMO it really doesn't matter who the coach is if we are not going to draft the talent needed to win a championship. But I would cry no tears if we chopped off Dick. I just think it's naive in the extreme to think this problem gets fixed with a coaching change. I liken Dick to a Norv Turner. Turner isn't a championship coach either, mediocre at best but he has a better team to work with so he's in the playoffs again. Look at his record with Oakland and Washington, worse talent, worse results. Our talent is not good enough. That's mostly not the coaches fault it's the GM's and the talent scouts.

[justasportsfan]

This is true to a degree, but it also means that a guy like Pioli is capable of finding players in the later rounds who have NFL-caliber ability and have the smarts to handle a system like Belichik's. I think the lesson here is you can't pair great players with poor coaching and expect to win, and vice versa. You need both. Sadly, the Bills are lacking in both areas.


:up:

I think Pioli has the ability to see raw talent and know that their coaches can and will be able to mold them into good players when the time comes.

In our case however, we can't do anything with highly touted players out of college. :ill: Lynch is one hell of a rb who has to carry 3-4 defenders on his back to make 5 yards because we are so predicatble when we're planning to run or pass.

[Bill Cody]

:up:

I think Pioli has the ability to see raw talent and know that their coaches can and will be able to mold them into good players when the time comes.

In our case however, we can't do anything with highly touted players out of college. :ill: Lynch is one hell of a rb who has to carry 3-4 defenders on his back to make 5 yards because we are so predicatble when we're planning to run or pass.

You said Gilbride was an idiot who couldn't call plays. He called them ok last year with the Giants. Mularkey? Another idiot who sucked here and with the fins but did ok this year with Atlanta once he got a team with a good QB. Our talent has been no better than mediocre. Sure the GM has to draft the right players for the coach's system. But they need to be able to play.

[Ingtar33]

One thing they all have in common is they blitz the hall out of the QB. Do we ever blitz? Mitchell is perfect for blitzing and I think POZ is pretty good there too, but we use them completely wrong.


there is blitzing and there is blitzing.

Pittsburgh zone blitzes, which is a conservative way to do it... in fact many plays Pittsburgh rarely rush more then 4 people. the trick is zone blitzing allows you to rush 4 people and cause all sorts of chaos at the same time.

The Eagles meanwhile heavy blitz... it's what Johnson does best... the eagles under Johnson still run a mutated version of the old Buddy Ryan 46, and i don't think it would work without Dawkins.

If you look at the teams left you'll see that 3 of them run a 3-4, and mostly zone blitz.

[Lexwhat]

The Eagles meanwhile heavy blitz... it's what Johnson does best... the eagles under Johnson still run a mutated version of the old Buddy Ryan 46, and i don't think it would work without Dawkins.

This is exactly why I think the Eagles will beat the Cardinals this weekend. I'm expecting Kurt Warner turnovers.

[justasportsfan]

You said Gilbride was an idiot who couldn't call plays. He called them ok last year with the Giants. Mularkey? Another idiot who sucked here and with the fins but did ok this year with Atlanta once he got a team with a good QB. Our talent has been no better than mediocre. Sure the GM has to draft the right players for the coach's system. But they need to be able to play.
Gilbride was an idiot when he was here. The difference then and last year/now is that Coughlin vs. GW. Coughlin told him to run the ball. GW was too stupid to make offensive decisions just like Dick is too stupid to make offensive decisions that he is at the mercy of his annointed OC that has zero experience.

Mularkey is a better OC than a HC. I would've rather kept him over Turk. At least Mularkey has had success as an OC where Turk has no experience and it shows when he copies plays from other teams.

[Bill Cody]

Gilbride was an idiot when he was here. The difference then and last year/now is that Coughlin vs. GW. Coughlin told him to run the ball. GW was too stupid to make offensive decisions just like Dick is too stupid to make offensive decisions that he is at the mercy of his annointed OC that has zero experience.

Mularkey is a better OC than a HC. I would've rather kept him over Turk. At least Mularkey has had success as an OC where Turk has no experience and it shows when he copies plays from other teams.

Good post.