Does this team have what it takes for a Cup run?

[chernobylwraiths]

This the the question we all have to ask ourselves. Please don't bring the stale old, "once the playoffs start, it's anybody's game" line either. We have seen Cup runs before, and we have seen all of them fall short. They all fell short because of something the Sabres lacked at the time that the other team didn't.

Now for me, there are four components for a Cup win. I believe you need at least three of these to have a legitimate chance to win the Stanley Cup. You need balanced scoring, good special teams, very good goaltending and the mentality to do what it takes to win (let's call this team toughness).

I believe that the Sabres only have two out of the four. I think they are pretty balanced scoring wise. Maybe it is because they don't have a legitimate superstar on the team that can carry them (Vanek still has a ways to go). They have a pretty good penalty kill when they aren't allowing shots from the point. It's kind of funny because I hate their penalty kill. It is almost their philosophy IMO that they allow the other team to control the puck in the zone as long as they don't get an open look at the goalie. You see other penalty kills attacking our players (maybe it is just our players, but I'll get to that), but we kind of just sit back and allow them to keep the puck once they have control in our zone. It baffles me that we are a good penalty kill team.

On the power play however, we often struggle. With Connolly on the power play, he gives us a player that is somewhat feared when he has the puck. He is so deft with it attacking him will often take people out of position and open up someone. If Connolly can stay healthy, and that is a HUGE if, then the Sabres could have a decent power play. However, without him, the Sabres often look lost and have no true QB on the power play. I can only take seeing Roy try to pass the puck through 2 or 3 defenders so many times, and Vanek, though he is decent with the puck is really mostly dangerous tipping the puck around the net. If Gaustad just had a little more touch around the net, he could be a force, the power forward this team has craved forever, but dreams are more for the Lotto. So we have a very good penalty kill and a possible decent power play with Connolly and a very mediocre one without.

Now for that intangible, team toughness. Nobody in their right mind could say that this team has team toughness. They don't have the "whatever it takes to win" attitude. The Sabres have a handful of players with this, and they need at least half the roster. Mair, Gaustad, Ellis and Rivet can only do so much. Paille need to keep up what he started in the beginning of the year, Stafford has come on of late and Vanek takes a beating in front of the net, but we need a lot more, and we need it from our "leaders" or our better players.

Once the playoffs come, we need guys like Hecht and Pomminville to at least TRY to give a body check. Kotalik has good size and good scoring ability but he seems so disinterested sometimes it's maddening. We have a lack of guys that knew what it was to give everything they had. We have lost McKee, Grier, Dumont (though I wanted him gone at the time, I would take him over Kotalik in an instant) and Drury and replaced them with guys from the farm. Young guys don't usually know what has to be done and needs someone to show them the way. Unfortunately, I don't think they have enough people on this team to show them.

Just my opinion.

[Ebenezer]

I think they have enough in them to upset somebody but I think they are too inexperienced, and the game changed in the last two years, to make a deep run. That being said, after last years's debacle I'll take a playoff series win.

[chernobylwraiths]

Damn, I forgot about the goaltending.

As far as I am concerned, goaltending is the strongest part the Sabres have to the puzzle. Sure Ryan Miller can have a stinker and can let the occasional soft goal in, but he seems to come through more often then not when challenged and in pressure situations (last year's shootouts notwithstanding). He has an even keel and doesn't let his emotions get the best of him. That's very good for a guy who isn't the most athletic goalie in the league and relies on being in the right position at the right time. It requires good concentration and intelligence to know the angles which he has. He will never be Domenic Hasek, but he can be great in his own right. Like any good goalie though, he will need help from his defense. Whether he gets that help or not though is a mystery.

[Nighthawk]

I agree with the notion that they are nowhere near a cup winning team. Don't forget, they also don't have a goalie who has shown the ability to really lead this team. I'm not saying he can't or won't, but he hasn't shown this on a consistent basis. This team lacks heart, grit and like you stated, "a desire to do whatever it takes" and those missing ingredients have been around for a few years, so it's not because they're young or inexperienced. This team is what it is and that isn't good enough. If this FO does nothing to change the dynamic of that lockerroom, then we will be lucky to make the playoffs.

[chernobylwraiths]

I think they have enough in them to upset somebody but I think they are too inexperienced, and the game changed in the last two years, to make a deep run. That being said, after last years's debacle I'll take a playoff series win.

I'm not one to say that I wouldn't take one either, but I don't think inexperience is the thing we lack the most that would help us get over the top.

I also think that they have to bring more to the table than they have lately. Miller has been very good lately but the team only seems to be playing half to two thirds of a game. They don't have the talent to do that like they did two years ago and if they try that crap in the playoffs, they won't make it out of the first round.

[chernobylwraiths]

I agree with the notion that they are nowhere near a cup winning team. Don't forget, they also don't have a goalie who has shown the ability to really lead this team. I'm not saying he can't or won't, but he hasn't shown this on a consistent basis. This team lacks heart, grit and like you stated, "a desire to do whatever it takes" and those missing ingredients have been around for a few years, so it's not because they're young or inexperienced. This team is what it is and that isn't good enough. If this FO does nothing to change the dynamic of that lockerroom, then we will be lucky to make the playoffs.

As I stated in the other paragraph (that I forgot to add to the first post) I think they DO have what it takes in goal. He lead them to two straight Eastern Conference finals in two years. In EVERY series they played in those two years, only once would I say he might not have been the best goalie on the ice, and in that case, I think it was more or less a tie. In the year they lost to Carolina, he was the Sabres best player, period. IMO

[Nighthawk]

As I stated in the other paragraph (that I forgot to add to the first post) I think they DO have what it takes in goal. He lead them to two straight Eastern Conference finals in two years. In EVERY series they played in those two years, only once would I say he might not have been the best goalie on the ice, and in that case, I think it was more or less a tie. In the year they lost to Carolina, he was the Sabres best player, period. IMO

Not the same team and he had other players who helped him out in those runs. This team is MUCH more dependent on goaltending...and he failed miserably last year. He has to show me more consistency before I'm comfortable saying the Sabres have what it takes in goal to win a cup.

[chernobylwraiths]

Not the same team and he had other players who helped him out in those runs. This team is MUCH more dependent on goaltending...and he failed miserably last year. He has to show me more consistency before I'm comfortable saying the Sabres have what it takes in goal to win a cup.

But they severely lacked in other areas too, so why are you convinced it was because of the goaltending?

I'm not an all or nothing guy. Hasek had the same knock when he played here, that he couldn't win the big one. And it was because of him that we had our best chance to win a Cup in recent history. It was because of bad luck among other things that was the reason we lost our second best chance to the Hurricanes.

[Nighthawk]

But they severely lacked in other areas too, so why are you convinced it was because of the goaltending?

I'm not an all or nothing guy. Hasek had the same knock when he played here, that he couldn't win the big one. And it was because of him that we had our best chance to win a Cup in recent history. It was because of bad luck among other things that was the reason we lost our second best chance to the Hurricanes.

Whoa, whoa...I never said that goaltending would be the reason this team doesn't win the cup. I'm just stating that it is a component that I'm not sure is cup caliber. There are way too many other things wrong with this team to focus on the goaltending. Trust me, I don't think it will be the factor that keeps us from winning a championship...the FO's unwillingness to address the other problems will be.

[JD]

Just for mentioning the C word, we wont win it... thanks a lot

[BlackMetalNinja]

I can see them sneaking out of the first round with an upset, but I don't think they have enough to make the long haul in the postseason as the team currently is.

[Al the Bills Fan]

I think this team does not have enough depth to make it past the first round, I certainly would love to be proved wrong though

[ddaryl]

this team barely has the ability to get into the playoffs. Forget anbout a championship run.

[LABillsFan]

I think they can make it to the playoffs, but to go deep or win the cup, not a chance.

[BillsSabresB.C.T. Fan]

here's what I'm thinking,

February 10th that's when the Portland Pirates (Sabres farm team) will play the Albany River Rats at the HSBC Arena. If the Sabres are either IN or OUT of the playoff race the Sabres keep Gerbe, Kennedy, Weber up with the big team and the front office starts talking about seriously trading the big 6 UFA. Afinogenov, Connolly, Kotalik (although the Sabres are talking to his agent about a new contract) Spacek, Tallinder, Peters. they can free up 11 Million on the salary cap with getting rid of those players and will be buyers at the trading deadline (March 4th) and they go out and get a centerman and a big tough defenceman that can block shots (Jay Bouwmeester) comes to mind something that the Sabres have missed since Jay McKee left. Imagine this as our defence pairings

Rivet, Bouwmeester
Teppo, Lydman
Sekera, Butler/Weber

[OpIv37]

Good analysis, Chern, and you make a valid point with the 4 things necessary for a Cup run.

But in the case of the Sabres, I don't even think it needs to go that far. Mental toughness is the key attribute.

Look at the standings in the EC. Boston is 1st with 70 points, then Washington with 61 then the Rangers with 58. Both Washington and Boston have double digit leads in their division and will likely be one of the top 3 seeds. The Rangers lead the Atlantic and thus have the 3rd seed, but that could change as the Atlantic is tight this year. And it is possible for the Atlantic winner to catch the Caps and get the 2nd seed.

At the other end of the spectrum, the Sabres are in 7th with 51 points, and Florida is in 8th with 48. The 6th place team has 57 points.

So, if they Sabres get in, they're likely to be a 7th or 8th seed and would be hard pressed to get above 6th. The most likely opponents for that position are Washington, Boston, and the Atlantic winner (Philly, NJ, NYR).

The Sabres have only played Philly once so far and got killed, they're 2-1 against NJ and 2-0 against the Rangers, although the Rangers have played them tight. They've struggled a little with Boston but have had their successes, and they can't beat the Caps when Ovechkin plays.

Long story short, it's likely that the Sabres are going to run into Boston or Washington early in the playoffs and I simply don't think they have the mental toughness to beat either team. They can't run with Washington when Ovechkin plays and they're not consistent or tough enough against Boston to beat them in a 7 game series.

If the Sabres do get in and don't have to play Boston or Washington early, I could see a first round upset. But that's as far as it's going to go.

[OpIv37]

Lindy said and they read this on the air on the Shootout last night that the Sabres want to get out of the 7th and start climbing the ladder and finish in either 6th or 5th place in the playoff race.

well that would mean catching up with NJ and Philly who are in 5th/6th, both with 57 points. We have 2 games on NJ and still play them 2 more times. We play Philly 3 times but they are a game up on us because they already beat us once.

It's possible, but only if this team plays a lot more consistently than they have so far this season.

[Ebenezer]

Guys, face it...the Sabres suck...worst franchise in the league.

[ZacGriffi~82]

The Playoffs can either expose your weaknesses or make them disappear. Players take it to another level. The Sabres might be better then we think. Players like Hecht, Pominville, Connolly and Tallinder who are having suspect years have proven they can perform in crunch time. Playoff hockey could end their slumps. At the same time they could crumble. I can't say how far they'll go in the playoffs (if they make it) because it's up to the players. It depends which team shows up.

[OpIv37]

Guys, face it...the Sabres suck...worst franchise in the league.

people are saying the Sabres aren't good enough to make a playoff run. That's a HELL of a lot different from saying they're the worst franchise in the league.

Some of us, however, have higher standards, and not being the worst franchise in the league simply isn't good enough.

[Nighthawk]

people are saying the Sabres aren't good enough to make a playoff run. That's a HELL of a lot different from saying they're the worst franchise in the league.

Some of us, however, have higher standards, and not being the worst franchise in the league simply isn't good enough.

Well said. For some reason, if you are a person who doesn't think the Sabres are good enough, then all of a sudden it is assumed you think they are the worst team in the league? Talk about reaching for an arguement. All I've ever said is that this team is not good enough as it is made up right now...I've never stated they were the worst in the league.

[BlackMetalNinja]

Well said. For some reason, if you are a person who doesn't think the Sabres are good enough, then all of a sudden it is assumed you think they are the worst team in the league? Talk about reaching for an arguement. All I've ever said is that this team is not good enough as it is made up right now...I've never stated they were the worst in the league.That sure is ALL YOU'VE EVER SAID, 4 billion times or so...

[Nighthawk]

That sure is ALL YOU'VE EVER SAID, 4 billion times or so...

Not this year. That is where you guys are wrong.

[Nighthawk]

That sure is ALL YOU'VE EVER SAID, 4 billion times or so...

Oh yeah, and all you and others seem to post is how I am always so negative. Therefore, you are also a broken record...like you like to state so much.

[BlackMetalNinja]

Oh yeah, and all you and others seem to post is how I am always so negative. Therefore, you are also a broken record...like you like to state so much.Oh... has it gotten annoying yet?

[Nighthawk]

Oh... has it gotten annoying yet?

Nope, just makes you look more ignorant.

[chernobylwraiths]

quit screwing up my good thread guys!

[Nighthawk]

quit screwing up my good thread guys!

Hey, I'm not trying to...I'm having a good old conversation and this crap keeps coming back.

[chernobylwraiths]

I think they have enough in them to upset somebody but I think they are too inexperienced, and the game changed in the last two years, to make a deep run. That being said, after last years's debacle I'll take a playoff series win.

I wondered about this. When did the game change? I see nothing in how the game has "changed" except go back to where it was prelockout.

[BillsSabresB.C.T. Fan]

Ruff, the all-time winningest coach in Sabres’ history, has a .591 playoff winning percentage and is the Sabres’ all-time leader in playoff games coached (88), and wins (52), surpassing Scotty Bowman’s mark of 18 wins (set over five seasons).
http://sabres.nhl.com/team/frontoffice/bio_ruff.htm

[Nighthawk]

Ruff, the all-time winningest coach in Sabres’ history, has a .591 playoff winning percentage and is the Sabres’ all-time leader in playoff games coached (88), and wins (52), surpassing Scotty Bowman’s mark of 18 wins (set over five seasons).
http://sabres.nhl.com/team/frontoffice/bio_ruff.htm

Yet again...what the hell does this have to do with this thread???

[BlackMetalNinja]

Yet again...what the hell does this have to do with this thread???It's really better not to feed the animals... Just look, point, and laugh... then walk away.

[Nighthawk]

It's really better not to feed the animals... Just look, point, and laugh... then walk away.

True...very true...my bad. :oops:

[User Manuel]

No, they are one more center man and a defenseman away from being a real contender in the East. Unfortunately, I dont think anyone in the east has a prayer against Detroit, Calgary or Anaheim in the Finals.

[JD]

Look at the Carolina Hurricanes. They didn't deserve the cup, but they lucked out with injuries to opposing teams. ****.. I'll take a SC win no matter how it comes!