Question for the board..

[acehole]

Could we or do you want to...

Trade down in the first round retaining a first round (Possibly twice) and then trading that for Matt Cassel?

Go...

[Night Train]

I think it's a moot point because the Pats want Cassel. Brady is still a huge question mark for next season.

[HHURRICANE]

Could we or do you want to...

Trade down in the first round retaining a first round (Possibly twice) and then trading that for Matt Cassel?

Go...

This is exactly the thread that makes us Bills fans look stupid.

Matt Cassell is not winning us any extra games.

If we get a TE, Center, and 2nd WR QB will be the least of our issues.

[Dozerdog]

If we traded Trent Edwards for Cassel straight up at the begining of the year, the Bills will still be a sub-500 team and the Pats would still be 11-5 or even better.

[DraftBoy]

The Pats would never deal Cassel inter division.

[TacklingDummy]

We don't need another QB this year.

The Bills need to trade some value for picks this year. Address C, DE, TE, LB, RB, WR through the draft and trades.

Then in 2010 the Bills can draft a QB with their Top 5 pick.

[Dujek]

If we traded Trent Edwards for Cassel straight up at the begining of the year, the Bills will still be a sub-500 team and the Pats would still be 11-5 or even better.

Correct. If Edwards had Moss and Welker to throw to and had that running game and o-line to support him he'd have put up similar numbers to Cassel.

QBs can put a team over the top, and a bad QB can drag a team down, but likewise a poor supporting cast can ruin a good QB.

[Ickybaluky]

First of all, it would never happen.

Secondly, the Pats are going to want more than a 1st for Cassel.

[MikeInRoch]

People shouldn't even respond to threads like this. Don't encourage them.

[justasportsfan]

Correct. If Edwards had Moss and Welker to throw to and had that running game and o-line to support him he'd have put up similar numbers to Cassel.


Doubt it. McDaniels is a major reason for both Brady and Cassels success. In the meantime, Trent is blaming Turk.

[THATHURMANATOR]

This is exactly the thread that makes us Bills fans look stupid.

Matt Cassell is not winning us any extra games.

If we get a TE, Center, and 2nd WR QB will be the least of our issues.
I am with you 100%.

[acehole]

First of all, it would never happen.

Secondly, the Pats are going to want more than a 1st for Cassel.

I think it would kill the pats and improve the bills in one move.

I have seen enough of Trent Edwards.

The pats have a choice when they franchise sombody?

If we are willing to give what the asking price is I thought that was that.

This is not a stupid post hhurricane...you need to review the ones you start every 5 min.

Brady is a question mark and reports are that he might not come back...you take cassel you kill the pats while at the same time ending up with the best qb in the afc east.

This is not a stupid question...what is stupid is going into next year with trent Edwards holding your franchise by the balls.

[acehole]

Correct. If Edwards had Moss and Welker to throw to and had that running game and o-line to support him he'd have put up similar numbers to Cassel.

QBs can put a team over the top, and a bad QB can drag a team down, but likewise a poor supporting cast can ruin a good QB.


Yes I have often said this and was labeled a licker.

[acehole]

People shouldn't even respond to threads like this. Don't encourage them.


Read the post...it was a posed question...not we need to do this.

[bigbub2352]

Bad move,
Cause then you are giving a 1st round or more to a team that went 11-5 with a back QB, also Cassell could be like so many other QBs and be a one yr wonder, i am just saying i dont htink we have seen enough of Trent yet and can give him an honest assesment until u give him so real weapons in the passing game
Also NE would us the draft pick on a nobody and they will turn into the best player who ever lived

[MikeInRoch]

It was a dumb question, not worth of cluttering up the board with.

[jamze132]

The Pats would never deal Cassel inter division.
Why not?

[Dujek]

Doubt it. McDaniels is a major reason for both Brady and Cassels success. In the meantime, Trent is blaming Turk.

You just proved my point...

A good OC and system makes the NE QB look good, a bad OC and system makes Trent look bad.

Thanks for trying though.

[DraftBoy]

Why not?


Well you have a guy who just led you to 11-5, so why would you trade a proven QB to a division rival to improve them? Unless their new GM plans to lose his job quickly. You never ever trade anybody to a division rival that could significantly upgrade their team. And imo, this is a stupid idea to even think about. Cassel has a similar skill set to Edwards and while he is more developed and a better player as of now but he doesnt give us all that much extra in the long run that Edwards doesnt. Personally Im not sold on Cassel outside of New England but that's all we have right now to go on.

[DraftBoy]

You just proved my point...

A good OC and system makes the NE QB look good, a bad OC and system makes Trent look bad.

Thanks for trying though.


Its not that simple people arguing its all coaching or its all talent are both equally wrong.

[PECKERWOOD]

The Pats would never deal Cassel inter division.

There is a chance that the Pats might deal Cassel intergalactically.


http://blogs.ccrtvi.com/media/478/20071126-beastieboysmolen2.jpg

[Dujek]

Fair point, but Josh McDaniels along with the offensive weapons the Patriots have would make any QB more likely to succeed.

[jamze132]

Well you have a guy who just led you to 11-5, so why would you trade a proven QB to a division rival to improve them? Unless their new GM plans to lose his job quickly. You never ever trade anybody to a division rival that could significantly upgrade their team. And imo, this is a stupid idea to even think about. Cassel has a similar skill set to Edwards and while he is more developed and a better player as of now but he doesnt give us all that much extra in the long run that Edwards doesnt. Personally Im not sold on Cassel outside of New England but that's all we have right now to go on.

So he's a proven QB now because he led his team to 11-5? He still missed the playoffs. And there is this guy named Derek Anderson who played QB for Cleveland last year that took his team to the playoffs out of nowhere.

As for trading a "proven" QB within the division, it has been done before. Remember the Pats traded us Bleadsoe because they were going to go with Brady? I know you do...

[DraftBoy]

So he's a proven QB now because he led his team to 11-5? He still missed the playoffs. And there is this guy named Derek Anderson who played QB for Cleveland last year that took his team to the playoffs out of nowhere.

As for trading a "proven" QB within the division, it has been done before. Remember the Pats traded us Bleadsoe because they were going to go with Brady? I know you do...


Yea when you finish 6 games over .500 and come within another team losing of being in the playoffs you're proven. To think either he or Anderson is not, is a little ridiculous imo. That's not to say they are going to be All-Pro but that they are proven NFL caliber starting QB's. Something Trent has shown glimpses of but not proven yet.

Comparing trading a young and entering the prime years of his career in Matt Cassel to an over the hill Dre Bledsoe is ridiculous and you know it.

[DraftBoy]

Fair point, but Josh McDaniels along with the offensive weapons the Patriots have would make any QB more likely to succeed.


I agree with that, play calling, and situational coaching are huge elements imo, but Cassel has shown he has the ability to make the plays that McDaniels called.

[Ickybaluky]

And there is this guy named Derek Anderson who played QB for Cleveland last year that took his team to the playoffs out of nowhere.

No, he didn't.


As for trading a "proven" QB within the division, it has been done before. Remember the Pats traded us Bleadsoe because they were going to go with Brady? I know you do...

Because Bledsoe was a flawed player and they knew it. If Bledsoe hadn't been hurt, you would have seen Brady later that year anyway.

[chernobylwraiths]

Fair point, but Josh McDaniels along with the offensive weapons the Patriots have would make any QB more likely to succeed.

Losman?

[PECKERWOOD]

No, he didn't.



Because Bledsoe was a flawed player and they knew it. If Bledsoe hadn't been hurt, you would have seen Brady later that year anyway.

Bledsoe has a shot at the HOF, imo. He was definitely our best QB since Kelly, I don't regret trading for him one bit.

[Ickybaluky]

Losman?

I think they could do the same for Losman as they were able to do with Rohan Davey.

[Ickybaluky]

Bledsoe has a shot at the HOF, imo. He was definitely our best QB since Kelly, I don't regret trading for him one bit.

He may get to the HOF if he buys a ticket.

Otherwise, no shot. The guy put up some decent numbers early in his career, but he was a big-game choke who played his poorest against good competion.

I mean, how many HOF player were benched and lost their jobs 3 different times?

[acehole]

It was a dumb question, not worth of cluttering up the board with.

An opinion from someone who added nothing.

[chernobylwraiths]

He may get to the HOF if he buys a ticket.

Otherwise, no shot. The guy put up some decent numbers early in his career, but he was a big-game choke who played his poorest against good competion.

I mean, how many HOF player were benched and lost their jobs 3 different times?

Only benched twice, and one wasn't as much a benching as letting the kid try to keep winning.

[justasportsfan]

You just proved my point...

A good OC and system makes the NE QB look good, a bad OC and system makes Trent look bad.

Thanks for trying though.
what are you talking about? I've always said coaching is one of the biggest reasons for a teams success. I've always said Tren and our players would've been so much better if BB was our HC.


you must've mistaken my post for td's or fty's.

[chernobylwraiths]

I think they could do the same for Losman as they were able to do with Rohan Davey.

They would have to win the SB again then.

twice

[Ingtar33]

Cassel makes robo-sack Johnson look mobile. The guy gets sacked at a higher rate then Rob Johnson ever did.

no thank you.

[acehole]

Cassel makes robo-sack Johnson look mobile. The guy gets sacked at a higher rate then Rob Johnson ever did.

no thank you.


Well at least he gets up after them.

We need more then Trent EDWARDS at the qb position.

I think he (Matt) is the best fit available right now.

When he is off the table we should go for 2nd best....

I think we should follow suit with all of our postions of need.

I think we go after suggs and so forth if we want to build a contender.

At the very least the Bill should be showing interest to increase the offer that NE has to offer him. It would help if we tie up resources for them....

[Ickybaluky]

Cassel makes robo-sack Johnson look mobile. The guy gets sacked at a higher rate then Rob Johnson ever did.

no thank you.

That doesn't take into account how much he improved as the season progressed. Not just in sacks, but everything:

First 8 games:

156-for-233 (67.0%, 6.7 Yds/Att)

7 TD, 7 Int, 83.4 QB Rating

28 sacks, 34 rushes for 101 Yds (3.0 Avg), 0 TDs

Second 8 games:

171-for-283 (60.4%, 7.5 Yds/Att)

14 TD, 4 Int, 94.4 QB Rating

19 sacks, 39 rushes for 169 Yds (4.3 Avg), 2 TDs


Cassel improved consistently as the year progressed. He is a much different QB now than he he was in September.

[jamze132]

Yea when you finish 6 games over .500 and come within another team losing of being in the playoffs you're proven. To think either he or Anderson is not, is a little ridiculous imo. That's not to say they are going to be All-Pro but that they are proven NFL caliber starting QB's. Something Trent has shown glimpses of but not proven yet.

Comparing trading a young and entering the prime years of his career in Matt Cassel to an over the hill Dre Bledsoe is ridiculous and you know it.
I simply reminded you that trades within the division aren't impossible from happening.

And about the "proven" QB thingy, we could argue about this all day but I don't have time to. But I will say there are one-hit wonders out there in the NFL. Not saying either player I mentioned is though...

[jamze132]

Because Bledsoe was a flawed player and they knew it. If Bledsoe hadn't been hurt, you would have seen Brady later that year anyway.

Everyone could see that coming...

[Philagape]

Its not that simple people arguing its all coaching or its all talent are both equally wrong.

THANK YOU

[Mitchell55]

Acehole. You are a *******. You keep on making dumb ass trade senerios that you know will never happen just because you are mad that Trent took JPs job. Trents our starter, Cassell will never be here.

[acehole]

Acehole. You are a *******. You keep on making dumb ass trade senerios that you know will never happen just because you are mad that Trent took JPs job. Trents our starter, Cassell will never be here.

Wrong.

We need 2 starter at qb...we have 1/2 of one now.

Getting a RFA qb who can take a hit is not dumb .

What is dumb is going from 7-9 with a qb who never played
a full year in his career and hoping he changes and we improve.
I think the Bills are more then interested in cassel and any other
starting caliper qb they can get their hand on....

Dick Juron and the entire organization is not going to be hostage to Trents tendencies.

I got news for you people plan B is coming....and chances are he will play very soon in 2009...and you people better pray it is cassel or someone of equal talent or we will be talking draft in October again.

[acehole]

Yea when you finish 6 games over .500 and come within another team losing of being in the playoffs you're proven. To think either he or Anderson is not, is a little ridiculous imo. That's not to say they are going to be All-Pro but that they are proven NFL caliber starting QB's. Something Trent has shown glimpses of but not proven yet.

Comparing trading a young and entering the prime years of his career in Matt Cassel to an over the hill Dre Bledsoe is ridiculous and you know it.


This is a near perfect post.

[X-Era]

Could we or do you want to...

Trade down in the first round retaining a first round (Possibly twice) and then trading that for Matt Cassel?

Go...

Abso-frikkin-lutely not!

Cassel sucks, and you want to trade a 1st for him?

Let a stupid team screw that one up.... Thanks, but Ill stick with our own QB who cant get us to the playoffs.

[acehole]

Acehole. You are a *******. You keep on making dumb ass trade senerios that you know will never happen just because you are mad that Trent took JPs job. Trents our starter, Cassell will never be here.


PS I never said cassel will ever be here. I asked a question.

[acehole]

Abso-frikkin-lutely not!

Cassel sucks, and you want to trade a 1st for him?

Let a stupid team screw that one up.... Thanks, but Ill stick with our own QB who cant get us to the playoffs.


No it was a question...but at the right price my answer is yes.

PS Cassel does not suck.

[PECKERWOOD]

3rd + 7th ---- anything more = NO THANK YOU.

When you have Moss and Welker, you had better put up some numbers.

[Dujek]

Losman?

Would be more likely to succeed in New England. I'm not saying he'd be Tom Brady, but he would have had a better chance of success than he had in Buffalo. Though his inaccuracy in the short game would hurt Losman in the NE system.

[Jan Reimers]

This is the most QB-centric place I've ever seen. We have gaping holes all over the place, the worst gameday coach in the NFL, and a FO headed by a marketing guy, yet topics like exchanging a promising 3rd year QB for a guy with one good season under his belt seem to dominate our thoughts.

[acehole]

This is the most QB-centric place I've ever seen. We have gaping holes all over the place, the worst gameday coach in the NFL, and a FO headed by a marketing guy, yet topics like exchanging a promising 3rd year QB for a guy with one good season under his belt seem to dominate our thoughts.

You are correct this team has holes.

However why does it have to be an either or prospect.

Cant we solidify (Not replace) the qb position and fill the holes?

Nobody on this board in their right mind is ok with Trent and no plan b?

Are we?

Remember I was the guy making the argument that this team has problems beyond the qb position for years....now we have both...

[X-Era]

3rd + 7th ---- anything more = NO THANK YOU.

When you have Moss and Welker, you had better put up some numbers.

Still too much in my mind.

Id give a 5th... thats about what Holcomb was worth and Holcomb could have done just as much on that team

[X-Era]

You are correct this team has holes.

However why does it have to be an either or prospect.

Cant we solidify (Not replace) the qb position and fill the holes?

Nobody on this board in their right mind is ok with Trent and no plan b?

Are we?

Remember I was the guy making the argument that this team has problems beyond the qb position for years....now we have both...

I have a problem with plan A and plan A...

No one will know if Trent can be the guy until he starts another season. Having another guy who's just as viable starts the itchy trigger that leads to QB controversies, locker room messes, and about the same record regardless.

You came this far with Trent, give him the #1 job until the eval is finished. Its too early to bring in another starter.

[acehole]

I have a problem with plan A and plan A...

No one will know if Trent can be the guy until he starts another season. Having another guy who's just as viable starts the itchy trigger that leads to QB controversies, locker room messes, and about the same record regardless.

You came this far with Trent, give him the #1 job until the eval is finished. Its too early to bring in another starter.

I gave him the starter spot...I want a viable #2.

[Mitchell55]

Wrong.

We need 2 starter at qb...we have 1/2 of one now.

Getting a RFA qb who can take a hit is not dumb .

What is dumb is going from 7-9 with a qb who never played
a full year in his career and hoping he changes and we improve.
I think the Bills are more then interested in cassel and any other
starting caliper qb they can get their hand on....

Dick Juron and the entire organization is not going to be hostage to Trents tendencies.

I got news for you people plan B is coming....and chances are he will play very soon in 2009...and you people better pray it is cassel or someone of equal talent or we will be talking draft in October again.




Trent cant take a hit? Is that a joke? There have been countless times this season that he has completed a pass while getting nailed and he almost always gets back up. Also look at Manning, Aikeman, younger Manning, and Montana. All were horrible and showed almost no promise in there 1st years. Trent has already broken 6-10 of buffalos completion records.

[lukabrossi]

I think we should trade away a 1st. rounder AND Edwards for Cassel.

[acehole]

Trent cant take a hit? Is that a joke? There have been countless times this season that he has completed a pass while getting nailed and he almost always gets back up. Also look at Manning, Aikeman, younger Manning, and Montana. All were horrible and showed almost no promise in there 1st years. Trent has already broken 6-10 of buffalos completion records.

You post is a reach at best.

[justasportsfan]

and you people better pray it is cassel or someone of equal talent or we will be talking draft in October again.
Cassel isn't that good YET that he can easily overcome our coaches' shortcomings. We'll just ruin his career.

Come to think of it, he could teach Turk what a screen pass is and how to run the ball with lesser talent like what he had in NE.

[Marvelous]

Good grief!!! Didn't you see what happened with Drew? Sure Drew is/was a deer in headlights,but i'll never accept a NE castoff again..

edit:: so NE would have 3 1st rounders??? Ace, you a Pats spy?