Hakeem Nicks is "top 15 pick"

[psubills62]

According to rotoworld.com:

"National Football Post scout Wes Bunting doesn't believe there's 'any way' UNC WR Hakeem Nicks will fall past the top 25 picks in the draft.

Bunting admits that Nicks lacks 4.4 speed, but spring training could bump his forty time up and his routes are better than any draft-eligible. We believe Nicks is a top-15 pick. His ball skills and after-catch ability are outstanding."


I'm a fan of Nicks, but I'm a little dubious as to whether he's a top-15 pick.

[DraftBoy]

Don't see it right now. He could sneak into the first round with an amazing combine and workout but I don't see it if he runs an expected 4.55.

[Tatonka]

i saw him drop some easy passes this year too though.. his hands reminds me of chris chambers or braylon edwards.

[OpIv37]

doesn't he have injury issues too?

[DraftBoy]

You may be thinking of Brandon Tate of UNC Op.

[Tatonka]

it doesnt matter anyway.. if we take a WR with our first pick i will ****ing puke.

[DraftBoy]

it doesnt matter anyway.. if we take a WR with our first pick i will ****ing puke.

Why? We badly need a #2 WR to help Evans out and with no TE worthy of the #11 we need another playmaker badly. A guy like Maclin would be a great pick for us.

[FlyingDutchman]

I dont think Maclin is that good. At least not 11th pick good. Kinda agree with Tatonka, the only WR worth taking in the top 20 is obviously Crabby IMO

[OpIv37]

Why? We badly need a #2 WR to help Evans out and with no TE worthy of the #11 we need another playmaker badly. A guy like Maclin would be a great pick for us.

I'm with Tatonka on this one.

No doubt this team would benefit from a good receiver, but WR is only a weakness right now whereas C, DE and arguably LB are glaring holes. I could maybe see it if there is a great WR on the board while there is no one of value at those other three positions, but even then it would seem a little Detroit-esque.

[madness]

There's a decent crop of FA veteran WR's out there. I'll puke if we miss out one of them and have to draft a #2.

[DraftBoy]

I dont think Maclin is that good. At least not 11th pick good. Kinda agree with Tatonka, the only WR worth taking in the top 20 is obviously Crabby IMO

Currently a top 15 pick and if he runs a sub 4.4 40, he'll likely be gone before our pick. The reason the kid is so valuable is because he's young 21, he has great size 6'1 or 6'2, good leaping ability, is an explosive playmaker, and this year showed a lot of WR polish in working hard on his routes and becoming more than just an amazing returner and gimmicky WR. He could go to Oakland if he runs a good 40.


I'm with Tatonka on this one.

No doubt this team would benefit from a good receiver, but WR is only a weakness right now whereas C, DE and arguably LB are glaring holes. I could maybe see it if there is a great WR on the board while there is no one of value at those other three positions, but even then it would seem a little Detroit-esque.

Its not about just filling a weakness to fill one. You named three positions (C, DE, and OLB) in which there will possibly be nobody of good value to take at 11 to fill those. And you want to pass on a game breaker on Maclin to pick who exactly? To reach on a DE, or to take an ILB to slide Poz outside and hope that works out? Why? That makes less sense then taking a #2 (in my mind future #1 WR).

[DraftBoy]

There's a decent crop of FA veteran WR's out there. I'll puke if we miss out one of them and have to draft a #2.

Who would you like as a #2? I wouldnt mind a guy like Furrey or taking a stab at Floyd but I dont see a lot of good names out there.

[madness]

Who would you like as a #2? I wouldnt mind a guy like Furrey or taking a stab at Floyd but I dont see a lot of good names out there.

and Toomer!! :snicker:

I honestly don't mind drafting a WR if we can't trade back or if it's the BPA but I still think the Bills missed the boat last year picking up a vet WR and TE. I feel we need at least one of those in order to make an immediate impact on offense.

[FlyingDutchman]

Currently a top 15 pick and if he runs a sub 4.4 40, he'll likely be gone before our pick. The reason the kid is so valuable is because he's young 21, he has great size 6'1 or 6'2, good leaping ability, is an explosive playmaker, and this year showed a lot of WR polish in working hard on his routes and becoming more than just an amazing returner and gimmicky WR. He could go to Oakland if he runs a good 40.



numbers can say all they want. I watched probably about 70% of Mizzou games, and while theres no denying hes a talented athlete, I just dont think he will become that big of a playmaker at the next level, therefore I dont think hes worth the pick. Sounds a lot like Devin Thomas situation from last year.

[PECKERWOOD]

The only 2 WR's that I would even consider at #11 is Maclin and Crabtree.

[psubills62]

I'm agreeing with DraftBoy on this one. He's completely right.

I think something people ignore is this: we need playmakers, and we need playmakers on offense. Yeah, our pass rush wasn't that great. But our defense as a whole wasn't that bad, whereas our offense stunk.

Maclin ran very similar routes at Mizzou as we'd want him to run. He ran short routes where they just get him the ball and watch him do the rest.

And FYI, Maclin would be value at #11 - pretty much every draft rankings I've seen has him as a top ten player. I know people don't believe that WR's make much of a difference their first year, but I believe they have a bigger role than rookie DE's and C's do.

Besides, unless Curry is there, out of the positions C, OLB and DE, the only one I'd consider filling at 11 is DE and that's if Orakpo or Brown is there.

[psubills62]

I'm with Tatonka on this one.

No doubt this team would benefit from a good receiver, but WR is only a weakness right now whereas C, DE and arguably LB are glaring holes. I could maybe see it if there is a great WR on the board while there is no one of value at those other three positions, but even then it would seem a little Detroit-esque.

I guess I just don't see how WR isn't a glaring hole. Steve Johnson exceeded expectations for a 7th rounder, but that isn't saying much. I don't really feel like assuming he'll go from getting 200 yards in a season to getting 800 yards in a season.

Hardy has an injury and won't have much effect on this coming season. Parrish is just terrible as a WR and should be replaced this year. Reed is good, but what if he gets injured again? Besides, his contract is up fairly soon. And he's dependable, but he's just not the #2 we need. This offense needs help, and needs more help than a receiving TE or a C can give. Edwards needs weapons that he can trust. Right now it seems as though he only trusts Reed for the most part.

[User Manuel]

It'll depend on his combine. If he is a workout monster he'll rise big.

[Tatonka]

Why? We badly need a #2 WR to help Evans out and with no TE worthy of the #11 we need another playmaker badly. A guy like Maclin would be a great pick for us.

because we have hardy and johnson and reed and parrish.. we dont need ANOTHER high round draft pick at wr.. if you think that a rookie is just going to come in an out play them, your wrong.. not to mention we need OL, DT, DE, LB, and Safety all worse.

****, we mine as well take a RB at 11 while we are at it.. hell.. Best available player right?

:rolleyes:

[DraftBoy]

because we have hardy and johnson and reed and parrish.. we dont need ANOTHER high round draft pick at wr.. if you think that a rookie is just going to come in an out play them, your wrong.. not to mention we need OL, DT, DE, LB, and Safety all worse.

****, we mine as well take a RB at 11 while we are at it.. hell.. Best available player right?

:rolleyes:

Hardy is out almost all of next year, you got a 7th Round pick you are expecting to be our #2, who got less than 30 catches last season??

No I think that a rookie can help bridge the gap that was so woeful this year and also help because he could be a gamebreaker and used in numerous ways.

If you want to name some players likely available that are worth the 11th pick at the positions you mentioned then please do so but, keep in mind Orakpo, Curry, and Brown are all likely to be gone now. Are you advocating reaching?

[Tatonka]

how bout we not assume that Orakpo, curry, and brown are "likely" to be gone until after .. i dont know.. oh say.. the combine and workouts maybe??

[DraftBoy]

how bout we not assume that Orakpo, curry, and brown are "likely" to be gone until after .. i dont know.. oh say.. the combine and workouts maybe??

Why? Following basic trends in past years, team needs and players current rankings its a decent base to judge off of. To just close our eyes and plug our eyes and say "Lalalalala" till it happens doesnt make much sense either. We need to be constantly watching as the situation changes and evaluating what players are rising, falling and what our best options are to maximize the value of the 11th pick.

[Tatonka]

your right.. taking a wr with the first pick and depending on a rookie wr to take the team to the promise land while we have at least 4 other positions that are CLEARLY in much worse shape is ideal.. it is brilliant.. it has worked awesome for the lions too.

[DraftBoy]

your right.. taking a wr with the first pick and depending on a rookie wr to take the team to the promise land while we have at least 4 other positions that are CLEARLY in much worse shape is ideal.. it is brilliant.. it has worked awesome for the lions too.


Yes because that is exactly what I said...but we could follow your strategy and take another John McCargo...let's see here Lions took Calvin Johnson and were able to deal Roy Williams and now have 2 1st Round picks in a very good draft class, or we could go the route and have a fat slob on our team who can't even pass a physical...hmmm which route should we go...decisions, decisions.

[Luisito23]

Top 25 yes...Not 15.

[Tatonka]

there is nothing even remotely close to calvin johnson in this draft.

[jamze132]

Why? We badly need a #2 WR to help Evans out and with no TE worthy of the #11 we need another playmaker badly. A guy like Maclin would be a great pick for us.
They take too long to develop in general. With the #11 pick in the draft I am looking for someone who can start immediately.

[psubills62]

there is nothing even remotely close to calvin johnson in this draft.

LOL then you must not know much about the draft. Crabtree has a very different playing style from Calvin Johnson, but he's primed to be a VERY, very good WR in the NFL. Great routes, great hands, very physical.

[psubills62]

They take too long to develop in general. With the #11 pick in the draft I am looking for someone who can start immediately.

Yeah, you're right. A first-round draft pick who gets over 700 yards his first year in the NFL, like Lee Evans, Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, Dwayne Bowe, Santonio Holmes, etc. wouldn't help our offense at all.

Wide receivers do often take time to develop. But there are also plenty of WR's who do VERY well their first year. I didn't even mention second-round picks like Boldin, Desean Jackon, etc. who had an impact their first year. If you get the right guy, they CAN start immediately. Just not project guys like Hardy.

[jamze132]

Yeah, you're right. A first-round draft pick who gets over 700 yards his first year in the NFL, like Lee Evans, Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, Dwayne Bowe, Santonio Holmes, etc. wouldn't help our offense at all.

Wide receivers do often take time to develop. But there are also plenty of WR's who do VERY well their first year. I didn't even mention second-round picks like Boldin, Desean Jackon, etc. who had an impact their first year. If you get the right guy, they CAN start immediately. Just not project guys like Hardy.
Well getting the "right guy" is the hard part.

I would rather spend that #11 pick on defense and get that **** straight.

[DraftBoy]

Well getting the "right guy" is the hard part.

I would rather spend that #11 pick on defense and get that **** straight.

Going defense in the first does not mean that **** is straightened out though. You still gotta get that "right guy".

[jamze132]

Going defense in the first does not mean that **** is straightened out though. You still gotta get that "right guy".
Yeah, and at #11, a WR isn't that "right guy".

[DraftBoy]

And you can say this with confidence because our offense was oh so potent last season that somebody actually feared us??

If you don't like the idea that's fine but to act like its the wrong move when we have a hole at almost every position doesn't make sense.

[justasportsfan]

Why? We badly need a #2 WR to help Evans out and with no TE worthy of the #11 we need another playmaker badly. A guy like Maclin would be a great pick for us.
we just drafted HArdy and look how he turned out under this coaching staff. No matter who we bring in our coaches won't know what to do with them anyways.

We'll can take the best talent and waste it because of our play not to lose philosophy.

[DraftBoy]

we just drafted HArdy and look how he turned out under this coaching staff. No matter who we bring in our coaches won't know what to do with them anyways.

We'll can take the best talent and waste it because of our play not to lose philosophy.

Hardy is hurt for basically all of next year and needs to be replaced.

Based on your logic we should draft nobody...that doesnt make any sense.

[justasportsfan]

Hardy is hurt for basically all of next year and needs to be replaced.

Based on your logic we should draft nobody...that doesnt make any sense.
we should not draft another top wr because like hardy he won't conbtribute under this staff. If we want impact , we should grab one with experience who doesn't need to be developed by this moronic staff.

IMO we should drat another position and just continue to use/develop Steve Johnson.

Then again, after Shouman and Fines, we'll probably waste another pick on a TE who won't pan out anyways.

[DraftBoy]

we should not draft another top wr because like hardy he won't conbtribute under this staff. If we want impact , we should grab one with experience who doesn't need to be developed by this moronic staff.

IMO we should drat another position and just continue to use/develop Steve Johnson.

Then again, after Shouman and Fines, we'll probably waste another pick on a TE who won't pan out anyways.

So if you have no faith in the staff then why should we pick/sign anybody? They'll just suck when they get here in your opinion. We may as well forfeit next year too.

[madness]

we just drafted HArdy and look how he turned out under this coaching staff. No matter who we bring in our coaches won't know what to do with them anyways.

We'll can take the best talent and waste it because of our play not to lose philosophy.

:wtf:

[jamze132]

And you can say this with confidence because our offense was oh so potent last season that somebody actually feared us??

If you don't like the idea that's fine but to act like its the wrong move when we have a hole at almost every position doesn't make sense.
I think we need to address that position ins FA and not at #11.

Granted on paper, out offense was ranked better than our defense, I think we need to go defense heavy on this draft help produce a top 10 defense. if we can do that, it can hide some of our offensive deficiencies which are never going to be reversed under this regime. Might as well make a killer defense like we used to have.

[Tatonka]

LOL then you must not know much about the draft. Crabtree has a very different playing style from Calvin Johnson, but he's primed to be a VERY, very good WR in the NFL. Great routes, great hands, very physical.
LOL?

did you really laugh out loud there? was that really funny? funny enough that you actually laughed at your computer? interesting. I guess I don't have a great sense of humor.

I am no self proclaimed internet draft expert, but I probably watched as many if not more texas tech games then you did. I also know how to read internet draft reports and click on youtube, so I guess that makes me about as qualified as most people think they are. Crabtree looks very good.. he also doesnt look anywhere close to being the prospect that Calvin Johnson was when he came out.

to someone, crabtree might be worth a top 5 pick, but not to us.. and he is definately no calvin johnson-like prospect. Calvin's size and speed were unmatched, not only in the draft, but in the nfl. He was basically perfect in college. He aced every workout and was about as can't-miss as you can get for a WR.

and Crabtree, i think most "experts" like yourself would agree, is the best wr in the draft. Maclin look ok, and maybe Bey moves up some with some strong work outs, along with Nicks, but are you really going to sit there and tell me that you think they are going to be graded out like Calvin Johnson was? really?

LOL!! :rolleyes:

[Tatonka]

Hardy is hurt for basically all of next year and needs to be replaced.

Based on your logic we should draft nobody...that doesnt make any sense.

are we so sure about that? i mean i havent actually seen anything that says the guy is "hurt for all of next year". if tom brady, who apparently had complications with his surgery, is going to be back for training camp like they are reporting, then hardy should be back 3 months later.

im not saying hardy is the answer, but i think that saying he is "basically out all of next year" is a bit premature.

[DraftBoy]

are we so sure about that? i mean i havent actually seen anything that says the guy is "hurt for all of next year". if tom brady, who apparently had complications with his surgery, is going to be back for training camp like they are reporting, then hardy should be back 3 months later.

im not saying hardy is the answer, but i think that saying he is "basically out all of next year" is a bit premature.

Tore his ACL on 12/15/08, Didnt have the surgery till Janurary 13th. Its a 6-9 month timetable before he can even begin doing basic drills again. So that puts him back at the earliest in October to even begin to practice, he would still need time to get in game shape and test the knee out. I feel very confident in saying that he will likely not see the field in 2009, and if he does it won't be before Thanksgiving.

[Tatonka]

We may as well forfeit next year too.

we basically did when they extended Jauron.

[Tatonka]

Tore his ACL on 12/15/08, Didnt have the surgery till Janurary 13th. Its a 6-9 month timetable before he can even begin doing basic drills again. So that puts him back at the earliest in October to even begin to practice, he would still need time to get in game shape and test the knee out. I feel very confident in saying that he will likely not see the field in 2009, and if he does it won't be before Thanksgiving.

fair enough. but you dont draft for need anyway right.. just best available.. so i guess hardy and his knee really dont factor in at all.

:clump:

[DraftBoy]

Nope its a combination of need and BPA. Going to either extreme before Round 5 is a huge mistake imo.

[justasportsfan]

So if you have no faith in the staff then why should we pick/sign anybody? They'll just suck when they get here in your opinion. We may as well forfeit next year too.

Draft defense. Fewell is at least better at his job than Turd is. I doubt we'll be beating anyone with this O so might as well stock up with defensive players.

[justasportsfan]

:wtf:
Simply put, we drafted Hardy ,Steve Johnson ,Fines and all have been a waste under this coaching staff. Drafting another high pick wr isn't gonna fix anything offensively because they are going to have to develop and I have no confidence in our choaching staff when it comes to developing players. They can't even put the experienced players in good situations all the more rookies. JUst like Hardy and even Trent, they are going to be a waste.

Might as well draft defense . They should have some sort of impact .