PDA

View Full Version : The case against Ralph in the HoF



Ebenezer
02-02-2009, 06:45 AM
This was a letter I wrote last week for the front page that we had ready to go should RW not have been voted into the HoF. I still stand by my conclusions.

Here is a letter I have written to Ralph Wilson should he NOT be voted into the HOF on Saturday. Please publish it only IF he is not voted in. Should he make it then I will simply ask for three hours of my life back. LOL. It's long but I think worth it. Please chime in on its content. Thanks.

January 31, 2009

Ralph Wilson, Jr.
Owner, Buffalo Bills
One Bills Drive
Orchard Park, NY 14127

Dear Mr. Wilson,

It is with regret that I inform you that the selection committee for the Pro Football Hall of Fame has failed to vote in favor of your induction into their esteemed Hall. As is the case every year, the competition for selection was intense and I am sure that you will agree that this year’s inductees are well qualified and will represent the NFL well in the Hall. Speaking as one of many Bills fans, and as a fan since 1971, I can understand the committee’s decision and, for one, completely agree. You are not qualified to be in the esteemed Hall of Fame.

It is always difficult to enter the Hall of Fame as an owner. In many ways you have been the ideal owner of a professional football team. It has been admirable the way you started a team from scratch, kept it located in one city for almost 50 years, won two American Football League (AFL) titles and, proudly, was represented in four consecutive Super Bowls; all noble accomplishments. You were instrumental in the formation, development and success of the AFL. You are almost single handedly credited with saving the Oakland Raiders when it looked like that franchise was about to fold in the late 1960s. That move probably saved the AFL and eventually forced a merger with the NFL. You foresaw problems in the latest Collective Bargaining Agreement with the player’s union that many of your fellow owners failed to see and as time has proved you were correct. Your list of accomplishments is strong and under ordinary circumstances would be more than worthy of induction into the Hall. However, there are too many reasons, as listed below, that show your incessant meddling and why you do not deserve to be in the Hall.

The very beginning. Upon being granted the franchise you initially wanted to place the team in Miami. There was nothing wrong with that decision but from the beginning Buffalo was not your original selection. Complicating this was the drought of the 1970s in which the Bills failed to defeat the Dolphins and quite often were thoroughly embarrassed by the outcomes. Throughout that time you did little to nothing to produce a product on the field to prevent this.

The hiring and firing of Lou Saban – twice. For his time Lou Saban was the best football coach in the AFL. He almost single handedly resurrected a floundering franchise twice; first in the early 60s and again in the early 70s. Despite his success you made his working conditions so terrible that he was unable to do his job. After success you single handedly fired Saban, as many fans viewed it without just cause. It was your choice to fire him but your failure to replace him with anybody of competence turned the franchise each time into a complete joke for several years.

Propping up the Oakland Raiders. As was mentioned earlier you deserve credit for doing what was necessary to help the Raiders during their tough times. However, the trade of Darryl Lamonica was always a questionable move. Rumors were rumors but after it was disclosed that you helped the Raiders this trade almost looked like a matter of convenience to better help the Raiders. Understandable but your own franchise suffered in the long run. Jack Kemp was at the end of a wonderful career and Lamonica would have been the ideal replacement. Considering what it meant to the AFL losing Lamonica was forgivable; failing to replace him was not.

One playoff appearance between 1967 and 1980. The ultimate success of a franchise is measured by how often it makes the playoffs and, with some luck, wins a championship. After you fired Saban the first time the Bills went into a tail spin that lasted 14 years. During that time your team managed to make the playoffs only once. That resulted in an uninspired drubbing at the hands of the Pittsburgh Steelers. Again, had it not been for Lou Saban that one playoff game might never have happened. Previous coaches that you hired felt comfortable making O.J. Simpson into a returner and a decoy. Had it not been for Saban Simpson’s potential would never have been realized and there would not have been a 2000 yard season. To appear in one playoff game and to lose it, over the course of 30% of the team’s history is unforgivable.

The unknown threat to move the team to Seattle. Rumors have persisted for years that you may have had a deal with the city of Seattle to move the Bills there around the second Lou Saban ear. According to those rumors you pulled out of the deal and Seattle later was awarded the Seahawks. If there is any credence to these rumors it further shows that your commitment to the city of and fans in Buffalo was weak at best.

The tirade in front of the People’s Express Gate. Time has passed and I don’t remember exactly what year it was but I remember watching the news one night and you were being “interrogated” by the press. You, understandably, got annoyed. Your anger, though, was not limited to the press at hand. Your comments addressed all of the media and the fans of Buffalo. You attitude towards the fans was personally insulting. I was a teenager but I remember for the first time being disenfranchised. Being the owner does not give you the power to be abusive to the fans.

Chuck Knox. Much the like hiring of Saban (twice) you are to be credited with bringing in Knox after he got frustrated in Los Angeles. The Knox Era started slowly but was a refreshing change from the early and mid-70s. The Bills made the playoffs twice and won for the first time since 1966 won a playoff game. However, you made it almost impossible for Knox to continue here and he couldn’t wait to leave. Again, it was not the loss of Knox that was the problem. It was the failure to bring in a suitable replacement that drove the Bills closest to the lowest point in their history. It would be until 1990 before the Bills won another playoff game. One playoff win in 24 years is not the sign of a successful owner.

The Glory Years. Younger fans are quick to praise you for the resurrection of the Bills in the late 80s. Prior to that, loyal fans had to endure Hank Bullough. How you came to the conclusion the Bullough was a suitable NFL coach is still a wonder. How you allowed him to remain coach for more than a season can never be explained. The franchise teetered on the brink of being a minor league team. Fortunately for you, you hired Terry Bledsoe as the new General Manager. Blesdoe was a nice man but he didn’t have time to prove he was a quality football man. Shortly after being hired Bledsoe suffered a heart attack and had to relieve himself of his GM duties. His duties were given to a young up and coming executive with knowledge, vision and a plan. Bill Polian. Polian led the Bills to their Glory Days. Mr. Wilson, I am sorry. You do not get credit for the unfortunate health complications that fell Terry Bledsoe. If it were not for Bledsoe’s heart attack and the demise of the USFL (which with Polian’s connections provided a pipeline to quickly improve the team) there might not have been any “Glory Days”. That point may never be proved but the argument can be made. Polian led the Bills to their Glory Days but with just reason you fired him.

After firing Polian you stayed in house and promoted John Butler to GM. Fortunately for you the football department didn’t bolt and the team was able to rebound and make a short playoff run in the late 1990s. However, during this time you were unable to work with Butler and Coach Wade Philips. Your meddling led to Butler torpedoing the 2000 draft and Philips to eventually force your hand and fire him. The result was a gutting of the football department. The Glory Years were over without a Super Bowl win. For all the failures of the 70s, the 90s made up for it. However, how much credit goes to you and how much to Polian and Butler is up for discussion. Yes, you deserve credit for allowing Polian and Butler to do what he had to do financially to make the Bills a winner. However, as I am sure you know people do not advance in this world for simply “doing their job” which is what you did during that time.

The current state of Affairs. Beginning in 2000 the Bills have floundered in mediocrity. It has been nine seasons since the Bills played in a playoff game – the longest drought in team history. Since 1988 you have indirectly held the threat of relocation over the heads of fans and local politician. There have been many positive things to happen over that time. Politicians have worked with you and secured funding for improvements to the stadium and continued yearly payments to offset costs. You recently secured a deal with the Rogers Centre to play one home game there for each of the next five years while putting over $75 million into your bank account. To your credit the team is fiscally sound and despite the teams record on the field the fans consistently sell out the home games and faithfully support the team. However, that is a testament to them – not to you.

The largest failure and biggest insult to the fans, of your tenure as Bills owner has been the failure to lock in the future of the team. We, as Buffalonians, understand that the economy of Western New York is not ideal for the upscale future of the NFL. However, we do not need to read in out of town newspapers just how bad you think it is. Truth or not, your failure to give any credit to the fans for supporting the team despite the poor economy of the area is an insult to those who continue to buy tickets and faithfully fill the home stadium, named for you, at every home game – a direct slap in the face. You have promised that the team will not move during your lifetime but you have done nothing, at least that disclosed to the public, to secure the team’s future in Buffalo. As far as fans know when you pass away the team will be put up for sale by your family, bought for the highest price and moved. Is that anyway to reward the fans who have supported your team for almost 50 years? I say not.

Most people, especially as they approach 90 years old, are interested in how their legacy will be viewed. I am sure that you feel your legacy of being the only owner of the Bills and keeping them in one city will prove to be strong. However, should you pass and the Bills end up leaving the Western New York area it will be a blemish to your legacy that will wipe away all the good you think you have done. You have been rewarded with a stadium named after you, a field house named after you and riches beyond your wildest dreams for a $25,000 investment you made in 1959 yet you are failing in doing the one thing that will ultimately thank the loyal fans of the Buffalo Bills and lock in a positive lasting legacy. Of all the things listed above THAT is truly and deeply unforgivable and should be held in disdain.

There have been many positives that as Bills fans through the years we are thankful and prideful about. Not every team will win a Super Bowl and regrettably you have not been rewarded for your attempts. Sadly though, Mr. Wilson, it is your interminable meddling and failure to do what is right for the team on the field that has failed to produce long term results or a Super Bowl win and has shown you are not a quality owner. The ultimate failure to secure the future of the team in Buffalo is the last piece of proof needed showing you are not a Hall of Fame owner.

Truly, much of what you have done is worthy of consideration for the Hall of Fame, which you have had. I agree, however, with the committee. You are not Hall worthy. I may sound like just another scorned fan but please let me say this. I will continue to buy a season ticket. I will not decrease one bit the support I have shown since I was six. I will continue to spend my hard earned money and put it in your pocket. However, this is not in tribute to you. I will continue to support this team because I am a fan. A fan of the team and a fan of Buffalo. I will continue to do all I can to secure the future of the Bills in Buffalo – something that as of this time as far as we know you have not done. And for that, and the persistent way in which you have dangled the future of this franchise in front of us fans since at least 1988 if not earlier, Mr. Wilson, you are not Hall worthy and I will do all I can, even after you pass, to ensure that you never make the Hall of Fame. Mr. Wilson, prove me wrong. Prove me wrong and make me eat these words by securing the future of the Bills in Buffalo. Arrange a deal that allows you to own the team until you die but that allows the team to pass to somebody who will keep them in Buffalo. Seal your legacy and write your ticket to the Hall of Fame. Until then, I will rally to keep you out of the Hall. Even after you pass I will send these words to those who will hold your fate and hope that they will continue to fail to put you in the Hall. Mr. Wilson, do the right thing and truly and finally, thank the people that have supported YOUR team since 1959.

Sincerely,

lukabrossi
02-02-2009, 06:47 AM
...nice read.

The Spaz
02-02-2009, 06:59 AM
Too bad he is in and you will like it....

lukabrossi
02-02-2009, 07:01 AM
were all takin it like *****es.

chernobylwraiths
02-02-2009, 07:03 AM
Yeah, like they would print that Eb. :rolleyes:

Jan Reimers
02-02-2009, 08:03 AM
Great job, Eb. My biggest problem with Ralph, by far, is his refusal to secure the Bills' future in Buffalo, which shows his absolute disdain for the fans and taxpayers who have made this franchise a success.

BuffaloBillsStampede
02-02-2009, 08:23 AM
Honestly I dont know why you would even post this. We should all just be happy for the guy and not talk about why he doesnt deserve it.

jamze132
02-02-2009, 08:54 AM
Now that was a lesson in how to complain properly! Nice job. :bf1:

yordad
02-02-2009, 09:01 AM
You da man Ebs. Interesting, and nicely written.

Ebenezer
02-02-2009, 10:18 AM
Too bad he is in and you will like it....
too bad he does not deserve it as an "owner"...people want to argue contributor and they may have a point but he has treated the fan like crap for 50 years.

Block "O"
02-02-2009, 10:36 AM
He's already in but keep complaining assclowns. Uhhhh, you do realize without Ralph Wilson no one in their right mind would have brought an NFL franchise to Buffalo. So we all would have been browns, steelers, jets, or giants fans.

Ebenezer
02-02-2009, 10:42 AM
He's already in but keep complaining assclowns. Uhhhh, you do realize without Ralph Wilson no one in their right mind would have brought an NFL franchise to Buffalo. So we all would have been browns, steelers, jets, or giants fans.
I'm 43...I wouldn't have known the difference...and I am looking at it objectively...he could have put the team in Tulsa and ignored it just as much. Team placement has nothing to do with it...what he hasn't done with it does.

OpIv37
02-02-2009, 10:45 AM
He's already in but keep complaining assclowns. Uhhhh, you do realize without Ralph Wilson no one in their right mind would have brought an NFL franchise to Buffalo. So we all would have been browns, steelers, jets, or giants fans.

So, without Ralph, we wouldn't have had to endure 10 years of losing to the Dolphins (ok, I'm too young to remember that but it still happened), 4 straight super bowl losses, wide right, the Music City Mirage, a 10 year playoff drought, being New England's ***** for the last decade, blowing a 5-1 start to finish last in the division, losing to Pittsburgh's back ups in a game that kept us out of the playoffs, constant embarrassment in nationally televised games (especially that Dallas debacle), Mike Williams, Rob Johnson, Todd Collins, Mike Mularkey or 0 for 43 on Super Bowls?

GO RALPH!

Philagape
02-02-2009, 10:46 AM
Only the greatest players get in the Hall of Fame.
Only the greatest coaches get in the Hall of Fame.
And only the greatest owners should get in the Hall of Fame. If merely founding a franchise is enough, then all 32 founders should get in.
Therefore there is no way in hell Ralph should get in as merely the owner of the Buffalo Bills.
As a founder of the AFL, that's another debate. But as a team owner/founder, no way.

Block "O"
02-02-2009, 10:47 AM
So, without Ralph, we wouldn't have had to endure 10 years of losing to the Dolphins (ok, I'm too young to remember that but it still happened), 4 straight super bowl losses, wide right, the Music City Mirage, a 10 year playoff drought, being New England's ***** for the last decade, blowing a 5-1 start to finish last in the division, losing to Pittsburgh's back ups in a game that kept us out of the playoffs, constant embarrassment in nationally televised games (especially that Dallas debacle), Mike Williams, Rob Johnson, Todd Collins, Mike Mularkey or 0 for 43 on Super Bowls?

GO RALPH!

LMAO not for nothing but you sound like you need to get laid bro.

Philagape
02-02-2009, 10:51 AM
Uhhhh, you do realize without Ralph Wilson no one in their right mind would have brought an NFL franchise to Buffalo.

So you're saying Ralph is not in his right mind. Good call!

OpIv37
02-02-2009, 10:56 AM
LMAO not for nothing but you sound like you need to get laid bro.

well, lack of sex notwithstanding, I still speak the truth. This team's performance has ranged from mediocre to dismal, save a two year span in the 60's and a 4 year span in the early 90's.

Philagape
02-02-2009, 10:57 AM
Saying Ralph should get in because he brought football to Buffalo ... that's an argument for our Wall of Fame. Outside of Buffalo, who cares?
Except for four glorious years, the Bills have been a national laughingstock (two secondary championships don't count). And because even in those years they still didn't win it all, that solidified their reputation as lovable losers.
Founding a franchise isn't enough ... an owner should oversee a historically great franchise to be considered (as a team owner).

chernobylwraiths
02-02-2009, 11:06 AM
I'm surprised we haven't blamed Ralph for the AIDS virus, 9/11, Buffalo's terrible economy and Freddie's donuts going under.

Lowest average ticket prices in the NFL. Yeah, he just wants to make money and screw the fans.

Has he been a great owner? No, not great. But this argument that he doesn't deserve to be in because his team isn't winning every year? He's in, mainly because of his contributions to the game. To argue against his enshrinement because you don't think he should go in as an owner is as ridiculous as those arguing what helmet or jersey a player will go in with.

Wally The Barber
02-02-2009, 11:25 AM
Ah, frustrated Buffalo Bills fans do not get a vote.

Ralph Wilson is in the hall, Deal With it!

Philagape
02-02-2009, 11:29 AM
I'm surprised we haven't blamed Ralph for the AIDS virus, 9/11, Buffalo's terrible economy and Freddie's donuts going under.

Lowest average ticket prices in the NFL. Yeah, he just wants to make money and screw the fans.

Has he been a great owner? No, not great. But this argument that he doesn't deserve to be in because his team isn't winning every year? He's in, mainly because of his contributions to the game. To argue against his enshrinement because you don't think he should go in as an owner is as ridiculous as those arguing what helmet or jersey a player will go in with.

Ticket prices are low because otherwise there wouldn't be a team. As a businessman, he recognizes his market. Which is good business, but for football, well, we've seen the results.
Ralph has given us 50 years of Wal-Mart football. We have low ticket prices, and we've gotten what we pay for.

He didn't make it just as an owner, but for what he did for the AFL and by extension, the NFL. By that criteria, a case can be made for him.
But even in this thread, we see the "without Ralph there's no football in Buffalo," which is irrelevant to him being in the HOF.

Night Train
02-02-2009, 11:33 AM
Lamonica (married) was traded because he was nailing Tom Days sister, who was black. That would have been a major scandel in White Catholic Buffalo and he was traded.

Wilson made the move to Seattle threat because of the 1969 Cottrell Dome Stadium plan in Lancaster. That would have been a stadium for both football and baseball, but with only about 52,000 seats. Wilson said he would sue and move the team to Seattle before agreeing to that. The stadium deal fell through and MLB baseball granted Montreal (Expo's ) a franchise instead of Buffalo, who would have gotten it with the Dome stadium deal. Montreal was the backup plan. Wilson got his Rich Stadium deal in Orchard Park in 1973, which originally seated 80,020 before being redone for suites/premium seats in 1997. Far more income for him but no baseball team for us.

Wilson also wanted the original franchise in Miami back in 1960 and it took a lot of convincing from Lamar Hunt and AFL Commish Joe Foss to place the franchise in Buffalo. Some sort of scheduling conflict didn't allow him to get any stadium in Miami on Sundays. Buffalo was indeed the backup plan, since Wilson already had a winter place in West Palm Beach and badly wanted his franchise placed there.

Class dismissed.

chernobylwraiths
02-02-2009, 11:42 AM
Lamonica (married) was traded because he was nailing Tom Days sister, who was black. That would have been a major scandel in White Catholic Buffalo and he was traded.

Wilson made the move to Seattle threat because of the 1969 Cottrell Dome Stadium plan in Lancaster. That would have been a stadium for both football and baseball, but with only about 52,000 seats. Wilson said he would sue and move the team to Seattle before agreeing to that. The stadium deal fell through and MLB baseball granted Montreal (Expo's ) a franchise instead of Buffalo, who would have gotten it with the Dome stadium deal. Montreal was the backup plan. Wilson got his Rich Stadium deal in Orchard Park in 1973, which originally seated 80,020 before being redone for suites/premium seats in 1997. Far more income for him but no baseball team for us.

Wilson also wanted the original franchise in Miami back in 1960 and it took a lot of convincing from Lamar Hunt and AFL Commish Joe Foss to place the franchise in Buffalo. Some sort of scheduling conflict didn't allow him to get any stadium in Miami on Sundays. Buffalo was indeed the backup plan, since Wilson already had a winter place in West Palm Beach and badly wanted his franchise placed there.

Class dismissed.

1. don't believe it at all. I'll add that to the Nolan screwing Hasek's wife and Kelley regularly beating his wife rumors.

2. never heard this either, but looking at major league baseball right now, it would be gone by now anyway.

3. Yes, he wanted a team in Miami but when the NFL found out they were looking to place a team there, they put out signals that the NFL was going to expand and place a team in Miami. Since the AFL didn't want to have to directly compete for fans, they decided Buffalo. It is also why the Chiefs moved to KC from Dallas.

Historian
02-02-2009, 11:47 AM
to move the Bills there around the second Lou Saban ear.

Sorry...that just looks funny!

Well done Eb.

The Historian couldn't have said it any better.

Ebenezer
02-02-2009, 05:12 PM
Yeah, like they would print that Eb. :rolleyes:
our front page, chern....

Ebenezer
02-02-2009, 05:14 PM
Ah, frustrated Buffalo Bills fans do not get a vote.

Ralph Wilson is in the hall, Deal With it!

Ah yes...the "thank you for granting me the right to cheer for mediocrity and for caring so much to take my money" defense...that is the equivalent to the battered wife thanking her husband with Filet Mignon while she eats ground chuck.

PECKERWOOD
02-02-2009, 05:26 PM
:sadwalk:

SABuffalo786
02-02-2009, 06:20 PM
Great job. The old man has been a scourge on this town since the day he reluctantly came here.

If he's somewhat decent and cares about salvaging his legacy he'll announce a pending sale to a Buffalo ownership group this summer at his HOF speech.

chernobylwraiths
02-02-2009, 10:06 PM
our front page, chern....

Thought you meant you sent it into the BN. It was too long to print.

Block "O"
02-03-2009, 02:20 AM
Who's the pussy who keeps giving me negative feedback because I hate liberals. Be a man and leave your name ya ***.

feldspar
02-03-2009, 10:57 AM
I'm 43...I wouldn't have known the difference...and I am looking at it objectively...he could have put the team in Tulsa and ignored it just as much. Team placement has nothing to do with it...what he hasn't done with it does.

Ebenezer, you have over 60 thousand posts on this board. You probably think about the Bills in your sleep. Why do you hold so much animosity for the man who is responsible for what seems to be a huge chunk of what you think about in your free time all day?

Ralph was a pioneer in this league. A pioneer. Not only does he love the team you love, he is responsible for it's exsistence. Say what you want about the way he runs the team (especially lately), but the man deserves a certain amount of credit and respect.

And he is getting it...but you don't like it. Doesn't make sense to me. You love the candy but hate the candy maker. 50 years of Buffalo Bills football because of Mr. Wilson...lot of history there, and it wasn't all bad. It's not like a bad actor getting the Academy Award; he's actually done a lot...a lot for the sport.

Ebenezer
02-03-2009, 11:21 AM
Ebenezer, you have over 60 thousand posts on this board. You probably think about the Bills in your sleep. Why do you hold so much animosity for the man who is responsible for what seems to be a huge chunk of what you think about in your free time all day?

Ralph was a pioneer in this league. A pioneer. Not only does he love the team you love, he is responsible for it's exsistence. Say what you want about the way he runs the team (especially lately), but the man deserves a certain amount of credit and respect.

And he is getting it...but you don't like it. Doesn't make sense to me. You love the candy but hate the candy maker. 50 years of Buffalo Bills football because of Mr. Wilson...lot of history there, and it wasn't all bad. It's not like a bad actor getting the Academy Award; he's actually done a lot...a lot for the sport.
I don't disagree...he has done a lot for the sport...I acknowledged that...he has done little for the Bills...it is like the guy who is the President of the Baseball Little League but forgets to teach his own kid how to pitch. As an owner he is not HoF worthy. By your criteria all owners are worthy.

feldspar
02-03-2009, 11:40 AM
I don't disagree...he has done a lot for the sport...I acknowledged that...he has done little for the Bills...it is like the guy who is the President of the Baseball Little League but forgets to teach his own kid how to pitch. As an owner he is not HoF worthy. By your criteria all owners are worthy.

You can blame who you want, and the man at the top is probably the most responsible. But how can you say that Ralph Wilson has done NOTHING for the Bills? He has done EVERYTHING for the Bills that has ever been done for the Bills. Not good enough to win the big game, but we really should have won the first SB against the Giants. We had a very good team for a while there.

Aside from his accomplishments for the league that we all agree on, including helping save the Raiders organization, Ralph's running of the Bills is frustrating for sure. I agree with that. We are a team that everyone knows won't go after somebody like Julius Peppers, who we could sure use, because he is out of our price range. WTF does that even mean? We do go with what doesn't work boneheadedly all the time, and that's true. We stuck with Joe Ferguson as the cornerstone of our offense for 12 years. Sorry if you disagree, but Fergy was not cut out to be a franchise QB.

And by my criteria, all owner are not worthy. Who else has owned a team for 50 years? The length of time for his "service" to the league is not something you can overlook. It's shouldn't be the deciding factor as to his induction into the Hall, but it IS a factor. 50 years is a long time to make some crucial mistakes, too...letting Pat Williams go, etc.

Inductees into the Hall don't necessarily have to come from the most successful organizations. Ralph has done a lot for the sport, again. 50 years is a long time, and it's easy to focus on the negatives of his ownership when the Bills haven't made the playoffs in 9 years. But the positives are sure there.

The Hall is all about history, and Ralph is a big part of history...soon he will BE history. Let the old man enjoy it.

madness
02-03-2009, 12:14 PM
Ralph has done as much, if not more, than any owner in the Hall right now.

DynaPaul
02-03-2009, 10:09 PM
Awesome letter Ebenezer! That should get a full page ad in the NY Times.

LtFinFan66
02-04-2009, 05:53 AM
He's already in but keep complaining assclowns. Uhhhh, you do realize without Ralph Wilson no one in their right mind would have brought an NFL franchise to Buffalo. So we all would have been browns, steelers, jets, or giants fans.just remember where his first choice to put the team was

Ebenezer
01-18-2010, 01:39 PM
just remember where his first choice to put the team was
Miami. And he put it in Buffalo for one reason: economics...at that time, in 1959, he knew he could make more money in Buffalo than Miami.

YardRat
01-18-2010, 01:53 PM
Miami. And he put it in Buffalo for one reason: economics...at that time, in 1959, he knew he could make more money in Buffalo than Miami.

He couldn't get a lease with the Orange Bowl...If it was purely economics, and he knew at that time that that he could make more money in Buffalo, then Buffalo would have been his first choice and not Miami.

No offense, but your assertion makes zero sense.

zoneras
01-18-2010, 02:05 PM
Saban was not fired. He left of his own free will... both times. Why on earth would ralph fire him right after winning the 65 championship? He did this everywhere he went... came in, turned the team around then left. To Ralph's Credit he hired him a second time.

Beebe's Kid
01-18-2010, 02:06 PM
I showed this to my kid...I told him that this is proof that the glass is always half empty for some people, and if he isn't careful they can drag him down to their level, or close to it.

The Bills have given me years of NFL enjoyment. I wouldn't change it if I could. I have had the same heartbreak as everybody else, but I guess I will just be content to view it as a game, and at the end of the day, it is recreation.

To feel as betrayed as some do by this franchise is amazing. It has absolutely nothing to do with you. I guess at the end of the day, I am glad that I am not as tortured as some... The fact that you felt compelled to write this harangue, and even worse to hold on to it, and feel it deserved to be posted, makes me feel sorry for you. I, sincerely, hope you can find something to be happy about someday.

Ebenezer
01-18-2010, 02:53 PM
I showed this to my kid...I told him that this is proof that the glass is always half empty for some people, and if he isn't careful they can drag him down to their level, or close to it.

The Bills have given me years of NFL enjoyment. I wouldn't change it if I could. I have had the same heartbreak as everybody else, but I guess I will just be content to view it as a game, and at the end of the day, it is recreation.

To feel as betrayed as some do by this franchise is amazing. It has absolutely nothing to do with you. I guess at the end of the day, I am glad that I am not as tortured as some... The fact that you felt compelled to write this harangue, and even worse to hold on to it, and feel it deserved to be posted, makes me feel sorry for you. I, sincerely, hope you can find something to be happy about someday.
please rebut anything I said. What did I write that was false? Please write a letter supporting RW for the HoF - and putting a team in Buffalo doesn't count as a reason.

zoneras
01-18-2010, 02:57 PM
please rebut anything I said. What did I write that was false? Please write a letter supporting RW for the HoF - and putting a team in Buffalo doesn't count as a reason.


That Saban was fired. that is false in the sense that it is incorrect

Ebenezer
01-18-2010, 03:03 PM
That Saban was fired. that is false in the sense that it is incorrect
He quit the second time he was here but I am still not sure of the first...but does that make what I said about RW any less true?

YardRat
01-18-2010, 03:16 PM
Saban quit both times.

Also, the "Seattle rumors" part is iffy, at best. As are several other points you make in the article.

HOF induction's are supposed to be based on accomplishments, not unsubstantiated rumors and innuendo.

zoneras
01-18-2010, 03:19 PM
He quit the second time he was here but I am still not sure of the first...but does that make what I said about RW any less true?

Well since you made the firing of Saban twice a major piece in your argument against Wilson and it is simply not true since Saban walked away on his own both times then yes it does actually make your argument less true by definition.

But it is your opinion and you are welcome to it. I do not think Wilson is perfect but I would rather have him than Art Model and Irsay. I think he does deserve to be in the Hall of Fame.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

Historian
01-18-2010, 04:49 PM
You'll have to excuse Rat...he's our resident Wilson apologist.

Ebenezer
01-18-2010, 05:44 PM
You'll have to excuse Rat...he's our resident Wilson apologist.
there are some that think RW is a charm.

YardRat
01-18-2010, 05:46 PM
You'll have to excuse Rat...he's our resident Wilson apologist.

At least I don't make **** up and try to pass it off as fact :D