4-3 DE, 3-4 OLB, or even strongside 4-3 OLB?

[X-Era]

Whats the heck is the difference?

Id like someone to tell me why Chris Browns comment on this isnt spot on...

http://blogs.buffalobills.com/2009/02/03/an-excellent-thought/

[DraftBoy]

Well for one his comments aren't supported at really by history. He's making an observation that is unsupported. 4-3 DE's take a lot more technique and need a lot more strength than 3-4 OLB's. Who can rely a lot more on athleticism than based on technical abilities.

Willie McGinnest made a relatively successful transition from 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB, but as for the reverse I can't say I can think of somebody right now.

The fact of the matter is that the skill sets are different, different assignments are needed, and the switches are not nearly as seamless as CB makes it out to believe. A lot of it is coachable changes but you certain guys are better suited for certain positions and to make them play out of position will hurt them. See Michael Huff in Oakland who is better suited for FS but has been forced to play SS in Oakland. Another example would be to take a player like Aaron Curry and play him inside LB in a 3-4 D. Can he do it? Of course he can but is it where he is at his best? No, I prefer to put players where they are the best and not try and mold them to fit my system. For the most part it doesnt work out when you do that.

[X-Era]

Well for one his comments aren't supported at really by history. He's making an observation that is unsupported. 4-3 DE's take a lot more technique and need a lot more strength than 3-4 OLB's. Who can rely a lot more on athleticism than based on technical abilities.

Willie McGinnest made a relatively successful transition from 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB, but as for the reverse I can't say I can think of somebody right now.

The fact of the matter is that the skill sets are different, different assignments are needed, and the switches are not nearly as seamless as CB makes it out to believe. A lot of it is coachable changes but you certain guys are better suited for certain positions and to make them play out of position will hurt them. See Michael Huff in Oakland who is better suited for FS but has been forced to play SS in Oakland. Another example would be to take a player like Aaron Curry and play him inside LB in a 3-4 D. Can he do it? Of course he can but is it where he is at his best? No, I prefer to put players where they are the best and not try and mold them to fit my system. For the most part it doesnt work out when you do that.

I agree that you dont have them change positions if you dont have to.

Thats why guys like Everette Brown makes sense right where they are. Why make a DE into a OLB if you dont have to. a 3-4 OLB will have to cover TE's maybe even WR's from time to time... how much do we know about how well Brown can do that? And again, his frame is big enough to support another 10 lbs easy.

Its not just about him, theres plenty of players like this Maybin, Orakpo, and others.

[DraftBoy]

I agree that you dont have them change positions if you dont have to.

Thats why guys like Everette Brown makes sense right where they are. Why make a DE into a OLB if you dont have to. a 3-4 OLB will have to cover TE's maybe even WR's from time to time... how much do we know about how well Brown can do that? And again, his frame is big enough to support another 10 lbs easy.

Its not just about him, theres plenty of players like this Maybin, Orakpo, and others.
I never mentioned Brown. Guys switch positions in college all the time that's different and you know that because its a developmental thing. Look at a kid like Jarron Gilbert from SJSt. He's 6'2, 280 and has played LB, DT, DE, TE at SJ St. He projects as a DT in the NFL. Some guys dont even play a position in college and get switched out there. For instance every year there are slow footed OT's moved to OG. Moving positions in college and going into the pros is ok. But after that its risky business.

Guys like Brown, Maybin, Orakpo, English, Campbell, Johnson, and others have all had times in the past year or two that they have shown the ability to be the stand up OLB. I can think of two instances for both Johnson and Brown where they were stand up DE's and dropped into coverage.

You seem to be stuck on this weight thing and for me its not just about putting on 10 lbs none of the top DE's have the strength at the POA to stand up to being stone walled by a guy who could be 50 pounds heavier. I dont want a DE whose going to just rush 10 yards upfield and alot of these guys (especially Johnson and Brown) don't have good bull rush moves. Jackson is the best bull rusher of the group but he's also slower and less athletic. For me pass rush is only one aspect of what I want out of my 4-3 end. If you have a 4-3 end (like we do know) who only rush right up field then you lose any kind of corner containment to that side. I dont want that again, can these guys put the requisite weight and time in the film room and on the field to become 4-3 DE's? Im sure they could, but do I want to take that kind of chance at 11? Im not sure of that at all.

[DraftBoy]

I agree that you dont have them change positions if you dont have to.

Thats why guys like Everette Brown makes sense right where they are. Why make a DE into a OLB if you dont have to. a 3-4 OLB will have to cover TE's maybe even WR's from time to time... how much do we know about how well Brown can do that? And again, his frame is big enough to support another 10 lbs easy.

Its not just about him, theres plenty of players like this Maybin, Orakpo, and others.
I never mentioned Brown. Guys switch positions in college all the time that's different and you know that because its a developmental thing. Look at a kid like Jarron Gilbert from SJSt. He's 6'2, 280 and has played LB, DT, DE, TE at SJ St. He projects as a DT in the NFL. Some guys dont even play a position in college and get switched out there. For instance every year there are slow footed OT's moved to OG. Moving positions in college and going into the pros is ok. But after that its risky business.

Guys like Brown, Maybin, Orakpo, English, Campbell, Johnson, and others have all had times in the past year or two that they have shown the ability to be the stand up OLB. I can think of two instances for both Johnson and Brown where they were stand up DE's and dropped into coverage.

You seem to be stuck on this weight thing and for me its not just about putting on 10 lbs none of the top DE's have the strength at the POA to stand up to being stone walled by a guy who could be 50 pounds heavier. I dont want a DE whose going to just rush 10 yards upfield and alot of these guys (especially Johnson and Brown) don't have good bull rush moves. Jackson is the best bull rusher of the group but he's also slower and less athletic. For me pass rush is only one aspect of what I want out of my 4-3 end. If you have a 4-3 end (like we do know) who only rush right up field then you lose any kind of corner containment to that side. I dont want that again, can these guys put the requisite weight and time in the film room and on the field to become 4-3 DE's? Im sure they could, but do I want to take that kind of chance at 11? Im not sure of that at all.

[TigerJ]

I'd love for the Bills to be able to draft a 6'6" defensive end who weighs 285 and runs a 4.6 40. Unfortunately, that guy doesn't exist in this draft, and the last guys who were close to those measurables (Mario Williams and Julius Peppers) were drafted a lot higher than #11. I hope they draft someone who can put some pressure on the QB somewhere in the top three rounds whether it's Brown, Orakpo, Johnson, Kruger, Ayers or whoever, but none of them is a guaranteed sure thing.

[PECKERWOOD]

Well, I would like to see him do the drills and what not before we take him at #11. If Curry is gone, Orakpo is gone, Brown is gone and nobody wants to trade down.... maybe... I was strongly opposed to this idea at first but I'm slowly beginning to realize that a player isn't a "reach" if he pans out at wherever you pick him. Who today would call Colston a reach if he were taken in the 1st round instead of the 7th? Or Tom Brady in the 1st instead of the 6th? Would anybody doubt those teams now? If Modrak is convinced that Maybin could be a stud, impact, game changing SLB then take him at #11. BTW, I like the idea of having tweeners and role players on the roster, those type of players can really be game changers if used properly. Willie McGinest was a DE that moved to LB, he was considered a tweener.. Look at Shannon Sharpe, he was considered a tweener. I think that there is a scare tag that automatically comes with the word "tweener," which shouldn't always be the case if you ask me. A good football player can play multiple positions on the field! This isn't rocket science, some people got it and some people don't.. Some people are just athletes and have a feel and a passion for the game. That's why the draft is such a crap shoot. You can't measure a person's heart, character and passion for the game.

[X-Era]

Well, I would like to see him do the drills and what not before we take him at #11. If Curry is gone, Orakpo is gone, Brown is gone and nobody wants to trade down.... maybe... I was strongly opposed to this idea at first but I'm slowly beginning to realize that a player isn't a "reach" if he pans out at wherever you pick him. Who today would call Colston a reach if he were taken in the 1st round instead of the 7th? Or Tom Brady in the 1st instead of the 6th? Would anybody doubt those teams now? If Modrak is convinced that Maybin could be a stud, impact, game changing SLB then take him at #11. BTW, I like the idea of having tweeners and role players on the roster, those type of players can really be game changers if used properly. Willie McGinest was a DE that moved to LB, he was considered a tweener.. Look at Shannon Sharpe, he was considered a tweener. I think that there is a scare tag that automatically comes with the word "tweener," which shouldn't always be the case if you ask me. A good football player can play multiple positions on the field! This isn't rocket science, some people got it and some people don't.. Some people are just athletes and have a feel and a passion for the game. That's why the draft is such a crap shoot. You can't measure a person's heart, character and passion for the game.

Add Terrel Suggs and Jevon Kearse into the "tweener" mix