Realistic Mock Offseason

[psubills62]

Some of this are guys that I actually want, but mostly it's guys that I could see Buffalo going after to fill the holes. Note that this isn't my ideal offseason, simply what I think could very possibly happen. I also didn't specifically go through Buffalo's RFA's and UFA's, just named a few off the top of my head.

Re-sign:
Fred Jackson to a long-term deal
Kirk Chambers
Gibran Hamdan
Duke Preston
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p> </o:p>
Sign:
Brad Meester, C, <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on">Jacksonville</st1:City>: Maybe not the best center prospect in FA, but he is solid and headed the <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Jacksonville</st1:place></st1:City> rushing attack for the past 9 years.
<o:p> </o:p>
Mike Furrey, WR, <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Detroit</st1:place></st1:City>: A good slot possession WR. He can replace the unproductive Parrish in the slot while Steve Johnson continues to develop on the outside at flanker, with Reed moving inside to also be in the slot.
<o:p> </o:p>
Kyle Boller, QB, Baltimore: People compare him to Losman, but you just have to compare their career stats to know how dissimilar they are. They have similar playing styles, but Boller’s stats actually improved from year to year, unlike Losman. He’d be a solid backup.
<o:p> </o:p>
Jovan Haye, DT, TB: Young, had a great season two years ago, fills the 4<SUP>th</SUP> DT spot.
<o:p> </o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Mock Draft:
1. Brandon Pettigrew, TE: A lot of people will be unhappy with this. He’ll improve our offense, but not in the way people hoped.
2. <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Paul Kruger</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">DE</st1:State></st1:place>: Very athletic, our new DL-coach could help him with his technique (seems to be his main weakness). Good pass rusher, but anchors well against the run.
3. Michael Hamlin, S: I personally don’t think Whitner is good at FS, but Hamlin is good depth at SS. I think Bryan Scott can handle the starting duties at SS, with Whitner at FS. Hamlin is good against the run, and he’s not a liability in coverage.
4. AQ Shipley, C: A very good run-blocker who quickly gets to the second level. Dominated during his senior year. Need a good backup behind Meester since he’s missed games due to injuries the past two years.
5. Jarrett Dillard, WR: A small slot WR who will replace Mike Furrey after a year or two. Similar size to Parrish, but has better hands and better route-running skills.
6. Louis Vasquez, OG: Fits with our large, practically immobile OL. We need depth at the position and Vasquez can provide that.
7. Zack Follett, OLB: Decent blitzing LB, good for special teams.


Any comments? I usually can't find enough scouting reports on specific players to get an accurate read on them, so some of my summarized profiles on the guys could be wrong.

Let me know if you think this isn't realistic. I know most people won't be happy with Pettigrew in the first, but I can just see it happening, depending on who is gone when we pick at 11.

[PECKERWOOD]

Ok, that's a little TOO realistic for comfort.

[psubills62]

Ok, that's a little TOO realistic for comfort.

Haha so which ones would you be upset with? I'm guessing Pettigrew is one...

I think it's a bunch of guys who would improve our team in general, but none of them are really stars that would give us an identity - sort of like what's happened the last few offseasons.

[PECKERWOOD]

Haha so which ones would you be upset with? I'm guessing Pettigrew is one...

I think it's a bunch of guys who would improve our team in general, but none of them are really stars that would give us an identity - sort of like what's happened the last few offseasons.

I don't know, if Ralph is as egotistical and maniacal as we all think he is then I expect him to make an "in your face" type of statement this offseason. I'm not sure why, maybe it's because we are 26 million under the cap but I feel something BIG coming this offseason. That offseason would just upset our fanbase a whole lot more, imho. Sorry, wish I could give you pats on the back but I don't feel it will go that way.

[X-Era]

Some of this are guys that I actually want, but mostly it's guys that I could see Buffalo going after to fill the holes. Note that this isn't my ideal offseason, simply what I think could very possibly happen. I also didn't specifically go through Buffalo's RFA's and UFA's, just named a few off the top of my head.

Re-sign:
Fred Jackson to a long-term deal
Kirk Chambers
Gibran Hamdan
Duke Preston
<o:p> </o:p>
Sign:
Brad Meester, C, <st1:city w:st="on">Jacksonville</st1:city>: Maybe not the best center prospect in FA, but he is solid and headed the <st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Jacksonville</st1:place></st1:city> rushing attack for the past 9 years.
<o:p> </o:p>
Mike Furrey, WR, <st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Detroit</st1:place></st1:city>: A good slot possession WR. He can replace the unproductive Parrish in the slot while Steve Johnson continues to develop on the outside at flanker, with Reed moving inside to also be in the slot.
<o:p> </o:p>
Kyle Boller, QB, Baltimore: People compare him to Losman, but you just have to compare their career stats to know how dissimilar they are. They have similar playing styles, but Boller’s stats actually improved from year to year, unlike Losman. He’d be a solid backup.
<o:p> </o:p>
Jovan Haye, DT, TB: Young, had a great season two years ago, fills the 4^th DT spot.
<o:p> </o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Mock Draft:
1. Brandon Pettigrew, TE: A lot of people will be unhappy with this. He’ll improve our offense, but not in the way people hoped.
2. <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on">Paul Kruger</st1:city>, <st1:state w:st="on">DE</st1:state></st1:place>: Very athletic, our new DL-coach could help him with his technique (seems to be his main weakness). Good pass rusher, but anchors well against the run.
3. Michael Hamlin, S: I personally don’t think Whitner is good at FS, but Hamlin is good depth at SS. I think Bryan Scott can handle the starting duties at SS, with Whitner at FS. Hamlin is good against the run, and he’s not a liability in coverage.
4. AQ Shipley, C: A very good run-blocker who quickly gets to the second level. Dominated during his senior year. Need a good backup behind Meester since he’s missed games due to injuries the past two years.
5. Jarrett Dillard, WR: A small slot WR who will replace Mike Furrey after a year or two. Similar size to Parrish, but has better hands and better route-running skills.
6. Louis Vasquez, OG: Fits with our large, practically immobile OL. We need depth at the position and Vasquez can provide that.
7. Zack Follett, OLB: Decent blitzing LB, good for special teams.


Any comments? I usually can't find enough scouting reports on specific players to get an accurate read on them, so some of my summarized profiles on the guys could be wrong.

Let me know if you think this isn't realistic. I know most people won't be happy with Pettigrew in the first, but I can just see it happening, depending on who is gone when we pick at 11.

Brad Meester is exactly the type of C signing we should expect!

Not the best available, not the worst... We will call it mediocre. The rest of your signings fit that role too.

As far as the draft, I gotta say Im not a huge fan of your top 3. Not that I dont like them, I just dont like where you take them.

Id much prefer Pettigrew in a trade down. And I think Jackson or Johnson could be had in late 1, or early 2. Hamlin isnt a bad pick for that spot but id rather go Greene in 4.

[Mitchell55]

Im being honest. I hate it. We need a DE in round 1 even though I like Kruger. We now have 2 centers in FA and draft. A safty so early for depth is bad. You dont draft for depth untill round 4-7

[psubills62]

I don't know, if Ralph is as egotistical and maniacal as we all think he is then I expect him to make an "in your face" type of statement this offseason. I'm not sure why, maybe it's because we are 26 million under the cap but I feel something BIG coming this offseason. That offseason would just upset our fanbase a whole lot more, imho. Sorry, wish I could give you pats on the back but I don't feel it will go that way.

Honestly, I could see them making a big splash for two reasons: 1) Jauron needs to win now, and 2) Ralph needs fans to believe again after retaining Jauron.

However, the Bills seem to have too many holes to concentrate on just one or two players. We'll see.

[psubills62]

Never mind...I repeated my above post because I thought my internet explorer was giving me problems.

[psubills62]

Im being honest. I hate it. We need a DE in round 1 even though I like Kruger. We now have 2 centers in FA and draft. A safty so early for depth is bad. You dont draft for depth untill round 4-7

That's fine if you hate it. I knew most people would.

So what DE do you take if Brown and Orakpo are gone, and the Bills can't trade down? Tyson Jackson maybe?

I don't see what's wrong with 2 centers. Especially considering Meester has had injuries both of the last two seasons.

Depth can be had in any round if you're extremely lacking. Wouldn't a DE in the 1st be depth, technically? Maybe Jackson would start over Kelsay, but I doubt either Orakpo or Brown would be starters by Day 1.

[PECKERWOOD]

Im being honest. I hate it. We need a DE in round 1 even though I like Kruger. We now have 2 centers in FA and draft. A safty so early for depth is bad. You dont draft for depth untill round 4-7


Your signature kind of pisses me off.

[psubills62]

Brad Meester is exactly the type of C signing we should expect!

Not the best available, not the worst... We will call it mediocre. The rest of your signings fit that role too.

As far as the draft, I gotta say Im not a huge fan of your top 3. Not that I dont like them, I just dont like where you take them.

Id much prefer Pettigrew in a trade down. And I think Jackson or Johnson could be had in late 1, or early 2. Hamlin isnt a bad pick for that spot but id rather go Greene in 4.

If Maclin, Raji, and Brown are gone by #11, I'd rather trade down too. But I don't include trades in any mocks because they're just too hard to predict.

The thing is, Meester is still an improvement over Preston. Our running game improved behind Preston, I'd guess it might improve even more behind Meester.

That's fine, I actually have Tyson Jackson as a bit of a dark horse pick at 11. You don't have to like the picks, I should end up having different ones in my ideal mock offseason.

[Mitchell55]

Your signature kind of pisses me off.

I dont have one.

[mysticsoto]

I see this as a very poor mock for us. Okay, if the top 2 DEs are gone, then go with a top DT. Stroud could use some help and though Kyle Williams tries, he just doesn't have the strength to collapse the pocket on his own. He can be blocked fairly easily. If Raji is taken, maybe we should consider Peria Jerry. He's a penetrator and can collapse the pocket.

Pettigrew is a good overall TE. He's not great and he would improve the team only marginally. Do we need a really good TE? Absolutely. Does this draft have a really good TE - not in my opinion - not 1st rd material.

If you don't like the DTs available, then consider a Safety. We'd likely have our choice of the top safety at that point (William Moore?) and though I like Byron Scott, a faster version of him would help the team alot more.

I know our offense struggled, but it is my firm opinion that the Oline needs to work toward run blocking (get a new center that run blocks well and maybe a guard later). I think the left side can run block well if Peters is in TC on day 1! The right side needs to work on it a bit, but I think they can come around too. Use Lynch and Jackson more and less of the dink and dunk that teams are expecting and maybe we can actually have an offense. If Steve Johnson improves like I think he will, the offense will be better also.

The cover 2 needs to force turnovers to work, so we need to continue to improve that Dline until we have a sic Giants like Dline...

[kernowboy]

My draft would be

R1. Everette Brown DE
We need to get to the QB. Period
R2. Chase Coffman TE
Almost a thousand yards and 10 touchdowns
R3. Rashad Jennings RB
Lynch has problems, RBs get injured very quickly, Oxom did nothing
R4. A Q Shipley C
Small but it never hurt Jeff Faine
R5. Cody Brown OLB/DE
More help for the rush
R6. Ryan Stanchek G/T
Feet to play LT in an emergency but to be a decent LG
R7. Todd Brandstater QB
Under the radar but a clone of Edwards

In Free Agency I would go

Reggie Williams WR
What we might lose blocking with Coffman we gain it with Williams

Jake Grove C
We have too much spent on the OL, Grove is a cheaper option if he can remain fit

Mike Boley LB
If Angelo cannot get back to full fitness, we have a balanced corps

Zac Keasay FB
Why do you think Gore has so many yards? Lets get a proper quality FB in, the best we'll have had since Gash

[X-Era]

My draft would be

R1. Everette Brown DE
We need to get to the QB. Period
R2. Chase Coffman TE
Almost a thousand yards and 10 touchdowns
R3. Rashad Jennings RB
Lynch has problems, RBs get injured very quickly, Oxom did nothing
R4. A Q Shipley C
Small but it never hurt Jeff Faine
R5. Cody Brown OLB/DE
More help for the rush
R6. Ryan Stanchek G/T
Feet to play LT in an emergency but to be a decent LG
R7. Todd Brandstater QB
Under the radar but a clone of Edwards

In Free Agency I would go

Reggie Williams WR
What we might lose blocking with Coffman we gain it with Williams

Jake Grove C
We have too much spent on the OL, Grove is a cheaper option if he can remain fit

Mike Boley LB
If Angelo cannot get back to full fitness, we have a balanced corps

Zac Keasay FB
Why do you think Gore has so many yards? Lets get a proper quality FB in, the best we'll have had since Gash

Where are you seeing Jake Grove is a UFA?

[kernowboy]

http://www.walterfootball.com/freeagents2009C.php

He'll have been at the Raiders the same length of time as Losman who is also a UFA

[DraftBoy]

What about a draft of;

1. WR Maclin
2. TE Nelson
3. LB Ivy
4. DE Evans
5. OC Shipley
6. SS Langford
7. WR Turner

FA:
OLB Boley
QB Fitzpatrick
DE Montgomery
DT Cole
FS Jones

[psubills62]

I see this as a very poor mock for us. Okay, if the top 2 DEs are gone, then go with a top DT. Stroud could use some help and though Kyle Williams tries, he just doesn't have the strength to collapse the pocket on his own. He can be blocked fairly easily. If Raji is taken, maybe we should consider Peria Jerry. He's a penetrator and can collapse the pocket.

Pettigrew is a good overall TE. He's not great and he would improve the team only marginally. Do we need a really good TE? Absolutely. Does this draft have a really good TE - not in my opinion - not 1st rd material.

If you don't like the DTs available, then consider a Safety. We'd likely have our choice of the top safety at that point (William Moore?) and though I like Byron Scott, a faster version of him would help the team alot more.

I know our offense struggled, but it is my firm opinion that the Oline needs to work toward run blocking (get a new center that run blocks well and maybe a guard later). I think the left side can run block well if Peters is in TC on day 1! The right side needs to work on it a bit, but I think they can come around too. Use Lynch and Jackson more and less of the dink and dunk that teams are expecting and maybe we can actually have an offense. If Steve Johnson improves like I think he will, the offense will be better also.

The cover 2 needs to force turnovers to work, so we need to continue to improve that Dline until we have a sic Giants like Dline...

Well I should probably clarify that in my "realistic mock," I'm assuming Maclin, Brown, and Raji are all gone before we pick. If one of those three are on the board, I think the Bills would have no qualms picking any of them. I'm also not really a fan of Orakpo at this point.

Right now, I don't see many safeties being ranked as high as Pettigrew. Moore is falling fast because of a lack of coverage skills. I think Pettigrew would improve this offense more than people think.

Just FYI, I did get a C that is used to run-blocking (Meester from the Jags), and a OG later in the draft.

[psubills62]

What about a draft of;

1. WR Maclin
2. TE Nelson
3. LB Ivy
4. DE Evans
5. OC Shipley
6. SS Langford
7. WR Turner

FA:
OLB Boley
QB Fitzpatrick
DE Montgomery
DT Cole
FS Jones

See the post above - I'm doing my mock draft assuming that Raji, Brown and Maclin are all off the board.

I really like your mock draft - that looks more like my ideal one. In FA, I'd like to get Boley and wouldn't mind Montgomery. However, I'd prefer to get Rocky Bernard at DT and Kyle Boller at QB. I didn't really like Fitzpatrick at any point during last season.

[kernowboy]

I'd take Boller as a QB

[ParanoidAndroid]

Honestly, I could see them making a big splash for two reasons: 1) Jauron needs to win now, and 2) Ralph needs fans to believe again after retaining Jauron.

However, the Bills seem to have too many holes to concentrate on just one or two players. We'll see.

I agree but for a different reason:

0 - 6 in the division

I'm sure that really opened some sleeping eyes.

[kernowboy]

I can't see us going after a WR with Evans, Reed, Johnson onboard and Hardy recovering. It would almost be a knee jerk panic reaction.

Consider the Lynch issue the team will avoid Pettigrew and his off-field issues like he has the plague, and there will be the likes of Coffman and Nelson available in Round 2 or lower.

For me, Raji suits the 3-4 so I'm not certain about him.

If Everette Brown or Brian Orakpo are gone, I could see us reaching for:

Aaron Maybin DE, Penn State

Peria Jerry DT, Ole Miss

James Laurinitas, Ohio St

or trading down before we ever think of going after Pettigrew

[DraftBoy]

I can't see us going after a WR with Evans, Reed, Johnson onboard and Hardy recovering. It would almost be a knee jerk panic reaction.

Consider the Lynch issue the team will avoid Pettigrew and his off-field issues like he has the plague, and there will be the likes of Coffman and Nelson available in Round 2 or lower.

For me, Raji suits the 3-4 so I'm not certain about him.

If Everette Brown or Brian Orakpo are gone, I could see us reaching for:

Aaron Maybin DE, Penn State

Peria Jerry DT, Ole Miss

James Laurinitas, Ohio St

or trading down before we ever think of going after Pettigrew

How is going WR a knee jerk reaction? You named one WR who actually does a good job consistently catching the ball. We have to find another playmaker at wideout.

Maybin and Brown are both 3-4 OLB prospects to take either and try and make them play 4-3 DE would be a mistake imo. Laurinitatis is falling hard as a rock and Jerry wouldnt be a bad pick but again your reaching.

[psubills62]

I agree but for a different reason:

0 - 6 in the division

I'm sure that really opened some sleeping eyes.

I guess I would include that in one of the reasons why Jauron needs to win now.

If the Bills make a splash, it will be different than what the Jets did last year. The Bills will go for one top guy, not four or five.

[PECKERWOOD]

How is going WR a knee jerk reaction? You named one WR who actually does a good job consistently catching the ball. We have to find another playmaker at wideout.

Maybin and Brown are both 3-4 OLB prospects to take either and try and make them play 4-3 DE would be a mistake imo. Laurinitatis is falling hard as a rock and Jerry wouldnt be a bad pick but again your reaching.

I agreed with your choice of Maclin although I prefer Orakpo over nearly anybody else at #11. I haven't seen a mock with Nelson as our 2nd round pick, every draft site I've seen he is listed as a mid-rounder. Ralph really needs to make a statement after retaining Dick Jauron, he needs to do something to excite the fanbase. Somebody predicted Haynesworth in the Bills forum and I'm going to roll with their prediction. Here is a mock offseason that would get everybody to buy season tickets again:

Draft

1.) Brian Orakpo, DE, Texas (http://www.draftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/de/Brian-Orakpo.php)

2.) Darrius Heyward-Bey, WR, Maryland (http://www.draftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/wr/Darrius-Heyward-Bey.php)

3.) Eric Wood, C, Louisville (http://www.draftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/c/Eric-Wood.php)

4.) James Casey, TE, Rice (http://www.draftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/te/James-Casey.php)

5.) Kyle Moore, DE, USC (http://www.draftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/de/Kyle-Moore.php)

6.) Jared Bronson, TE, Central Washington (http://www.draftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/te/Jared-Bronson.php)

7.) Javorskie Lane, FB, Texas A&M (http://www.draftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/fb/Jorvorskie-Lane.php)


Free Agency

Albert Haynesworth, DT, Tennessee (http://www.nfl.com/players/alberthaynesworth/profile?id=HAY746506)

Angelo Crowell, OLB, Buffalo (http://www.nfl.com/players/angelocrowell/profile?id=CRO732110)

Byron Leftwich, QB, Pittsburgh (http://www.nfl.com/players/byronleftwich/profile?id=LEF677964)

Cuts

John McCargo

Chris Kelsay

Robert Royal

Derek Schouman

---

Although Crowell may have chronic knee injuries, he can be resigned at a very cheap price. If I were the Bills I would mend my relationship with Crowell and allow him to prove himself and showcase his ability behind a DL with Orakpo, Haynesworth, Stroud, Schobel as our starters. Furthermore, Ellison would be a decent stop gap at OLB for a year if Crowell goes down again, and I haven't forgotten about Alvin Bowen, who could very well be serviceable as well, I want to see him play. I would personally be suckered into attending the usual 2 games a year like I always do, AGAIN but I think this offsesaon could push us into the playoffs and despite Haynesworth as our really only major signing, it would be a very affordable offseason overall.

[mysticsoto]

I agreed with your choice of Maclin although I prefer Orakpo over nearly anybody else at #11. I haven't seen a mock with Nelson as our 2nd round pick, every draft site I've seen he is listed as a mid-rounder. Ralph really needs to make a statement after retaining Dick Jauron, he needs to do something to excite the fanbase. Somebody predicted Haynesworth in the Bills forum and I'm going to roll with their prediction. Here is a mock offseason that would get everybody to buy season tickets again:

Draft

1.) Brian Orakpo, DE, Texas (http://www.draftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/de/Brian-Orakpo.php)
2.) Darrius Heyward-Bey, WR, Maryland (http://www.draftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/wr/Darrius-Heyward-Bey.php)
3.) Eric Wood, C, Louisville (http://www.draftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/c/Eric-Wood.php)
4.) James Casey, TE, Rice (http://www.draftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/te/James-Casey.php)
5.) Kyle Moore, DE, USC (http://www.draftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/de/Kyle-Moore.php)
6.) Jared Bronson, TE, Central Washington (http://www.draftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/te/Jared-Bronson.php)
7.) Javorskie Lane, FB, Texas A&M (http://www.draftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/fb/Jorvorskie-Lane.php)


Free Agency

Albert Haynesworth, DT, Tennessee (http://www.nfl.com/players/alberthaynesworth/profile?id=HAY746506)
Angelo Crowell, OLB, Buffalo (http://www.nfl.com/players/angelocrowell/profile?id=CRO732110)
Byron Leftwich, QB, Pittsburgh (http://www.nfl.com/players/byronleftwich/profile?id=LEF677964)

Cuts

John McCargo
Chris Kelsay
Robert Royal
Derek Schouman

---

Although Crowell may have chronic knee injuries, he can be resigned at a very cheap price. If I were the Bills I would mend my relationship with Crowell and allow him to prove himself and showcase his ability behind a DL with Orakpo, Haynesworth, Stroud, Schobel as our starters. Furthermore, Ellison would be a decent stop gap at OLB for a year if Crowell goes down again, and I haven't forgotten about Alvin Bowen, who could very well be serviceable as well, I want to see him play. I would personally be suckered into attending the usual 2 games a year like I always do, AGAIN but I think this offsesaon could push us into the playoffs and despite Haynesworth as our really only major signing, it would be a very affordable offseason overall.

Two TEs in the draft? Why? I like most of your picks, but would keep Schouman, and draft a backup OG with the 2nd TE pick...maybe Cornelius Lewis? Your scenario also leaves us without a backup Center. I'd resign Preston.

[DraftBoy]

Two TEs in the draft? Why? I like most of your picks, but would keep Schouman, and draft a backup OG with the 2nd TE pick...maybe Cornelius Lewis? Your scenario also leaves us without a backup Center. I'd resign Preston.

I like Lewis a lot!

I also think you have Casey going too low, I think he's a 3rd Round prospect and Id grab if he was available to us. Im not a big fan of DHB, make it Kenny Britt or Hakeem Nicks and Id be sold on Rounds 1 and 2. Kyle Moore doesnt impress me, make that a S prospect like Langford, and we still need LB depth.

[Mahdi]

What about a draft of;

1. WR Maclin
2. TE Nelson
3. LB Ivy
4. DE Evans
5. OC Shipley
6. SS Langford
7. WR Turner

FA:
OLB Boley
QB Fitzpatrick
DE Montgomery
DT Cole
FS Jones
Who's rushing the passer...?

[DraftBoy]

Who's rushing the passer...?

Schobel, Montgomery, Evans, Kelsay/Denney for the most part. Probably Ellis a little too, and Boley is a good blitzer and Mitchell an even better one. Just because I didnt choose to grab a 3-4 OLB and make him play 4-3 DE does mean taking a guy like Evans won't help out our pass rush a good bit.

Evans in 07 had 54 Tackles, 21.5 TFL, 12.5 Sacks, 5 FF, and 3 PD

He has 1st Round talent but a character and injury issue.

[Mahdi]

Schobel, Montgomery, Evans, Kelsay/Denney for the most part. Probably Ellis a little too, and Boley is a good blitzer and Mitchell an even better one. Just because I didnt choose to grab a 3-4 OLB and make him play 4-3 DE does mean taking a guy like Evans won't help out our pass rush a good bit.

Evans in 07 had 54 Tackles, 21.5 TFL, 12.5 Sacks, 5 FF, and 3 PD

He has 1st Round talent but a character and injury issue.
Yer not even stating facts right there. Since when are Orakpo, Brown and Johnson 3-4 OLBs? They played DE in college not OLB. Just because draft guys say they can play as OLBs doesnt mean they cant continue playing DE.

Its amazing how stuck on that idea you are when there is no factual basis to tag them as purely 3-4 OLBs.

The main reason they are being seen as potential 3-4 guys is because they are top 10 picks and there are 4 teams in the top 10 that use the 3-4 that need pass rushers so its more of a convenience thing to peg them as 3-4 OLBs.

But when you compare their size, production, speed, and experience as college players it all points to DE more than it does OLB.

[DraftBoy]

Yer not even stating facts right there. Since when are Orakpo, Brown and Johnson 3-4 OLBs? They played DE in college not OLB. Just because draft guys say they can play as OLBs doesnt mean they cant continue playing DE.

Its amazing how stuck on that idea you are when there is no factual basis to tag them as purely 3-4 OLBs.

The main reason they are being seen as potential 3-4 guys is because they are top 10 picks and there are 4 teams in the top 10 that use the 3-4 that need pass rushers so its more of a convenience thing to peg them as 3-4 OLBs.

But when you compare their size, production, speed, and experience as college players it all points to DE more than it does OLB.


No that's not even close to true and all Im doing is stating facts. In fact its so much fact that guys like Mayock, McShay, Kiper, and just about every other expert agrees with that assessment. Orakpo can play 4-3 DE but may be better suited as a 3-4 OLB. Brown in no wa can play 4-3 DE, he played at 225!! Rumor is he's had to bust his butt just to get to 240, that's a LB size not DE.

Its not convienent and has nothing to do with who is drafting up top, its all about their size. They are Suggs sized, which is who they are all most commonly compared to.

Notice this is Mayock's latest rankings released 6 days ago, would you care to see the DE rankings;
1 Tyson Jackson LSU
2 Paul Kruger Utah
3 Robert Ayers Tennessee
4 Michael Bennett Texas A&M
5 Michael Johnson Georgia Tech

So where did Brown, Orakpo, and Maybin go???

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story?id=09000d5d80dff358&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

[Mahdi]

No that's not even close to true and all Im doing is stating facts. In fact its so much fact that guys like Mayock, McShay, Kiper, and just about every other expert agrees with that assessment. Orakpo can play 4-3 DE but may be better suited as a 3-4 OLB. Brown in no wa can play 4-3 DE, he played at 225!! Rumor is he's had to bust his butt just to get to 240, that's a LB size not DE.

Its not convienent and has nothing to do with who is drafting up top, its all about their size. They are Suggs sized, which is who they are all most commonly compared to.

Notice this is Mayock's latest rankings released 6 days ago, would you care to see the DE rankings;
1 Tyson Jackson LSU
2 Paul Kruger Utah
3 Robert Ayers Tennessee
4 Michael Bennett Texas A&M
5 Michael Johnson Georgia Tech

So where did Brown, Orakpo, and Maybin go???

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story?id=09000d5d80dff358&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true
So because Mayock says these guys are OLB we have to believe thats all they can do?

I'll give you some names also:

Gaines Adams
Cliff Avril

Both were recently projected by Mayock as 3-4 OLBs. Both are succeeding as DEs.

Manny Lawson
Kamerion Wimbley

Both were supposed to have HUGE impacts as OLB prospects according to Mayock. Both have failed to do that. They were DEs coming out of college and very good ones at that.

Few more names for you:

Robert Mathis: 6-2 245: Pro Bowl DE

Aaron Schobel 6'4 243 Pro Bowl DE

Osi Umenyiora 6'4 260 Pro Bowl DE

Michael Strahan 6'5 255 Pro Bowl DE

Derrick Burgess 6'2 260 Pro Bowl DE

Jason Taylor 6'5 244 Pro Bowl DE

All these weight categories you speak of obviously dont make a difference at the NFL level.

Bottom line any of the players I named for you could have been successful in either system or busts in either system. Just because one is thinner and taller and one is shorter and thicker or whatever the case is it doesn't mean they are pigeon holed to play in only one scheme.

They are pass rushers and difference makers plain and simple and you draft them no matter what system you run. If they were already LBs then obviously asking them to play with their hand in the dirt for the first time at the NFL level is risky but all these guys have played as DEs. To play in the NFL they will just have to make adjustments like any other college player does at their respective positions.

[DraftBoy]

So because Mayock says these guys are OLB we have to believe thats all they can do?

I'll give you some names also:

Gaines Adams
Cliff Avril

Both were recently projected by Mayock as 3-4 OLBs. Both are succeeding as DEs.

Manny Lawson
Kamerion Wimbley

Both were supposed to have HUGE impacts as OLB prospects according to Mayock. Both have failed to do that. They were DEs coming out of college and very good ones at that.

Few more names for you:

Robert Mathis: 6-2 245: Pro Bowl DE

Aaron Schobel 6'4 243 Pro Bowl DE

Osi Umenyiora 6'4 260 Pro Bowl DE

Michael Strahan 6'5 255 Pro Bowl DE

Derrick Burgess 6'2 260 Pro Bowl DE

Jason Taylor 6'5 244 Pro Bowl DE

All these weight categories you speak of obviously dont make a difference at the NFL level.

Bottom line any of the players I named for you could have been successful in either system or busts in either system. Just because one is thinner and taller and one is shorter and thicker or whatever the case is it doesn't mean they are pigeon holed to play in only one scheme.

They are pass rushers and difference makers plain and simple and you draft them no matter what system you run. If they were already LBs then obviously asking them to play with their hand in the dirt for the first time at the NFL level is risky but all these guys have played as DEs. To play in the NFL they will just have to make adjustments like any other college player does at their respective positions.


Here are some better numbers for you,

Everett Brown-225
Aaron Maybin-230
Brian Orakpo-245

Only two players you listed are below 245 and play DE, Schobel is not a DE Id want to be compared to if I was an upcoming prospect. And Taylor is a good comparison but I dont see Taylor's tenacity in any of these guys. Nor do I think Maybin or Brown can maintain their speed in adding 20-30 pounds of muscle.

Also please don't tell me Wimbley been a disappointment. His rookie year he had 11 sacks. since then he has been run away from and Clevelands entire defense was bad last year. I dont think any Cleveland fans are disappointed in Wimbley. Im sure they'd like to see his production increase to what it was his rookie year but he has been far from bad.

Look you can maintain that these guys are 4-3 DE's all you want and you can trot out 6 total names (though Id say Osi and Burgess play above 260) that are obvious exceptions. For every name you can name, I can pull out 10 that were busts as 4-3 DE's. And what's more is that you know that.

Lets wait till the end of the weekend see what these guys weigh at and then see what they run.

Also its not just Mayock saying these guys are 3-4 OLB's its McShay, its Kiper, its Wright, its Coyle, its just about everybody well except for you pretty much.

[Mahdi]

Here are some better numbers for you,

Everett Brown-225
Aaron Maybin-230
Brian Orakpo-245

Only two players you listed are below 245 and play DE, Schobel is not a DE Id want to be compared to if I was an upcoming prospect. And Taylor is a good comparison but I dont see Taylor's tenacity in any of these guys. Nor do I think Maybin or Brown can maintain their speed in adding 20-30 pounds of muscle.

Also please don't tell me Wimbley been a disappointment. His rookie year he had 11 sacks. since then he has been run away from and Clevelands entire defense was bad last year. I dont think any Cleveland fans are disappointed in Wimbley. Im sure they'd like to see his production increase to what it was his rookie year but he has been far from bad.

Look you can maintain that these guys are 4-3 DE's all you want and you can trot out 6 total names (though Id say Osi and Burgess play above 260) that are obvious exceptions. For every name you can name, I can pull out 10 that were busts as 4-3 DE's. And what's more is that you know that.

Lets wait till the end of the weekend see what these guys weigh at and then see what they run.

Also its not just Mayock saying these guys are 3-4 OLB's its McShay, its Kiper, its Wright, its Coyle, its just about everybody well except for you pretty much.
We'll see what Orakpo weighs in at soon enough... but I just checked 3 sites and all of them list Orakpo at 6'4 260....

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=33734&draftyear=2009&genpos=DE

http://texas.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=36641

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2009&id=24064&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfldraft%2fdraft%2ftracker%2fplayer%3fdraftyear%3d2009%26id%3d24064

Espn has him at 6'3 1/2 255.

So im not sure where you're getting the 245 number for Orakpo.

And for the record I think Michael Johnson could/should be the pick. Orakpo is 1b for me. Either way they both have prototypical 4-3 DE size for pass rushers.

I definitely dont want Maybin because he is way too light, and Brown is going to depend on his weigh in if rumors of him at 225 are accurate then clearly too light also. Although both are 6'4 and have the frame to add weight.

Either way its Johnson and Orakpo for me.

[DraftBoy]

We'll see what Orakpo weighs in at soon enough... but I just checked 3 sites and all of them list Orakpo at 6'4 260....

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=33734&draftyear=2009&genpos=DE

http://texas.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=36641

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2009&id=24064&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfldraft%2fdraft%2ftracker%2fplayer%3fdraftyear%3d2009%26id%3d24064

Espn has him at 6'3 1/2 255.

So im not sure where you're getting the 245 number for Orakpo.

And for the record I think Michael Johnson could/should be the pick. Orakpo is 1b for me. Either way they both have prototypical 4-3 DE size for pass rushers.

I definitely dont want Maybin because he is way too light, and Brown is going to depend on his weigh in if rumors of him at 225 are accurate then clearly too light also. Although both are 6'4 and have the frame to add weight.

Either way its Johnson and Orakpo for me.

If either Orakpo or Johnson are above 260 then Im fine with that, though Id prefer Johnson due to his frame and ability. If they under Ill pass.

[Mahdi]

If either Orakpo or Johnson are above 260 then Im fine with that, though Id prefer Johnson due to his frame and ability. If they under Ill pass.
Most NFL players add at least 5-10 pounds between their 1st and 2nd season. So even if Orakpo comes in at 250 or 255 he can be used as a 3rd down pass rusher as a rookie and get worked in to 3 down football by the time he's a sophomore.

Same for Johnson.

[DraftBoy]

Most NFL players add at least 5-10 pounds between their 1st and 2nd season. So even if Orakpo comes in at 250 or 255 he can be used as a 3rd down pass rusher as a rookie and get worked in to 3 down football by the time he's a sophomore.

Same for Johnson.

If they are below 260, then no thanks and that's banking on them still putting on 5-10 while still young NFL players.

[Mad Bomber]

Here are some better numbers for you,

Everett Brown-225
Aaron Maybin-230
Brian Orakpo-245


Every site I've seen has Brown at 252, not 225.

Also, I've always seen Orakpo listed at 260.

[DraftBoy]

Every site I've seen has Brown at 252, not 225.

Also, I've always seen Orakpo listed at 260.

Story broke on Rotoworld, http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=170226

Most of those sites are based off what the team guide says for the player. The accuracy is questionable but its all we have to work off of till this weekend.

[Mahdi]

If they are below 260, then no thanks and that's banking on them still putting on 5-10 while still young NFL players.
Well yer obviously entitled to your opinion but Im 100% sure that the Bills will not draft or sign through FA and DE over 265. We play cover two not 3-4. So I highly doubt we are getting any 280 pound DEs this offseason.

[PECKERWOOD]

Orakpo, Brown and Maybin, any of those guys at #11.

[X-Era]

Orakpo, Brown and Maybin, any of those guys at #11.

So fine, none are the perfect size for the 4-3... But none will be starting year one or at best will be rotational. Any of them would certainly help as a situation pass rusher.

And what if that player overachieves and becomes the next Freeney, Mathis, or Jason Taylor... we still win.

It seems we ought to be more focused on guys like Tyson Jackson, or Michael Johnson. But if we are convinced that despite their size one of these guys helps us get lots more pressure, I think thats a move we will consider.

[PECKERWOOD]

So fine, none are the perfect size for the 4-3... But none will be starting year one or at best will be rotational. Any of them would certainly help as a situation pass rusher.

And what if that player overachieves and becomes the next Freeney, Mathis, or Jason Taylor... we still win.

It seems we ought to be more focused on guys like Tyson Jackson, or Michael Johnson. But if we are convinced that despite their size one of these guys helps us get lots more pressure, I think thats a move we will consider.

I think all three of them will be fine, obvious past history will tell you that it's highly unlikely for all 3 to be pro bowlers but still, the ability is there for them. I personally like Orakpo because he already has the size (you can't tell me he isn't 250lbs+, sorry I don't buy that) and also the work ethic is there with Orakpo. You're talking about a guy who added 50lbs of muscle since reaching Texas, what a fantastic work ethic and desire that guy has, phenomenal.


Btw, what would you think of adding a possible playmaker like Louis Murphy in the 3rd round?

[X-Era]

I think all three of them will be fine, obvious past history will tell you that it's highly unlikely for all 3 to be pro bowlers but still, the ability is there for them. I personally like Orakpo because he already has the size (you can't tell me he isn't 250lbs+, sorry I don't buy that) and also the work ethic is there with Orakpo. You're talking about a guy who added 50lbs of muscle since reaching Texas, what a fantastic work ethic and desire that guy has, phenomenal.


Btw, what would you think of adding a possible playmaker like Louis Murphy in the 3rd round?

I think the recent news of Hardy making it back by or during TC makes a WR less likely... at least a bigger named FA.

I had the Bills going after a guy like Kenny Britt. But again, it probably would take a 2nd rounder and we may need all the top picks for needs.

What we do in free agency will tell us a lot about whats left as far as needs for the draft.

But, if you look at who we have, I could argue another decent prospect such as a Louis Murphy would still be smart.

The only other concern is numbers... You know that we arent likely to get rid of Evans, Reed, or Parrish. Then you have Hardy and Johnson whom have to be high on the Bills radar for the future. Thats 5 without the recent re-signing of Jenkins.

I dont think re-signing Jenkins precludes him losing a camp battle and being let go. A.L.A. Courtney Anderson, etc...

So, I think the Hardy news makes us less likely to look at a WR at all. Thats unfortunate because Im not completely sold on Hardy or even Reed (although Reed certainly earned his keep last year).

[PECKERWOOD]

I think the recent news of Hardy making it back by or during TC makes a WR less likely... at least a bigger named FA.

I had the Bills going after a guy like Kenny Britt. But again, it probably would take a 2nd rounder and we may need all the top picks for needs.

What we do in free agency will tell us a lot about whats left as far as needs for the draft.

But, if you look at who we have, I could argue another decent prospect such as a Louis Murphy would still be smart.

The only other concern is numbers... You know that we arent likely to get rid of Evans, Reed, or Parrish. Then you have Hardy and Johnson whom have to be high on the Bills radar for the future. Thats 5 without the recent re-signing of Jenkins.

I dont think re-signing Jenkins precludes him losing a camp battle and being let go. A.L.A. Courtney Anderson, etc...

So, I think the Hardy news makes us less likely to look at a WR at all. Thats unfortunate because Im not completely sold on Hardy or even Reed (although Reed certainly earned his keep last year).



I really have given up on Parrish as a WR and I'm hoping we still may go after another WR, perhaps use Jenkins as a TC body? Or insurance incase Hardy isn't actually ready to go?

[X-Era]

I really have given up on Parrish as a WR and I'm hoping we still may go after another WR, perhaps use Jenkins as a TC body? Or insurance incase Hardy isn't actually ready to go?

Certainly a real possiblity on Jenkins.

Id agree that Parrish has lost his appeal since McKelvin is such a great returner. Id rather go with some size.

But, we re-signed him a few years back under this regime and I cant see us cutting him.

[PECKERWOOD]

Certainly a real possiblity on Jenkins.

Id agree that Parrish has lost his appeal since McKelvin is such a great returner. Id rather go with some size.

But, we re-signed him a few years back under this regime and I cant see us cutting him.


I wouldn't cut Parrish but I would definately trade him to ensure he doesn't play for a team within the division.