I"m predicting Bills will release high priced vet tomorrow (Thursday)

[patmoran2006]

I have reason to believe the BIlls are very close to releasing a high priced veteran tomorrow before free agency. And it may be that his name would rhyme with "Mockery"

LOL, well not laughing.. Seriously.. Dont be the least bit surprised if you see a "big" name Bill getting cut tomorrow.

YOu heard it hear first, beeothces!! (that's my professionalism speaking)

[Michael82]

I really can't see them giving up on Dockery. Number 1, our Guard depth is pathetic. and he's our best Guard. Plus, we don't save any money by cutting him....

[ZacGriffi~82]

Murphy randomly threw in a line about the Bills getting ready to release a high priced vet before free agency on the 11:00 news. He knows something.

[Michael82]

Come on Chris Kelsay. Take one for the team..... :pray:

[hammerbillsfan]

YOu heard it hear first, beeothces!! (that's my professionalism speaking)

that's the booze talking :boozer:

[Michael82]

hmmm, if we cut him, maybe it means that we want to make Jason Brown our LG.

[Coach Sal]

He signed a 7-year deal in 2007 and we gave him a $16million signing bonus.

That means almost $2.3 mil counts against the cap each year (not incluing his salary).

He's played 2 of the 7 seasns so far, which leaves 5 years of the bonus still not counted.

5 years x $2.3 mil = $11.5 million accelerates into this year's cap if he is cut.

Am I missing something? Correct me if I'm wrong on this.

[Coach Sal]

If there was a "high priced vet" released, looking over the contracts, I think Ryan Denney could be a candidate.

I'd say he qualifies as a "high priced vet" at $2.4 mil. He also only has one year left on his deal. So, that's all that would really count against the cap anyway, and he's not exactly a cornerstone player.

[clumping platelets]

His cap savings would be about $350,000 if released. Not all his bonus money was signing bonus and bonuses could only be amortized 6 yrs when he signed. About half was roster bonuses

[Coach Sal]

3/2/2007: Signed a seven-year, $49 million contract. The deal contains $18.5 million guaranteed, including a $16 million signing bonus. $8.1 million of the signing bonus was paid immediately. 2009: $2.75 million, 2010: $4.5 million, 2011: $5.65 million, 2012: $6.575 million, 2013: $6.775 million, 2014: Free Agent

But even though they paid it "immediately" as far as cash, doesn't it it still get spread evenly throughout the length of the deal for cap purposes?

Other candidates (don't know of all these figuires are right, just going by the raw numbers and math)?
--Ryan Denney (save $2.4 mil cash this season; hardly any cap hit)
--Robert Royal (save $1.5 mil cash this season; about $3.2 mil cap hit)
--Aaron Schobel (save $3.5 mil cash this season; but close to $10 mil cap hit)
--Chris Kelsay (save $3 mil this season; $4 mil cap hit)
--??

[clumping platelets]

$3 million roster bonus counts $3 million on the cap in the year paid.

Only signing bonuses (and signing bonuses labeled as option payments) are amortized. But the CBA dictates yrs of amortization. Signing bonuses rec'd in 2009 can only be amortized for 5 yrs

[Michael82]

With the "uncapped" year coming next year....does this change the rules in cuts and free agent signings? Are there certain rules that no long apply?

[clumping platelets]

Yes, it would be better for you to google that right now

[Coach Sal]

$3 million roster bonus counts $3 million on the cap in the year paid.

Only signing bonuses (and signing bonuses labeled as option payments) are amortized. But the CBA dictates yrs of amortization. Signing bonuses rec'd in 2009 can only be amortized for 5 yrs

OK. So, outn of his $16 mil signing bonus, $8.1 was paid - and counted - right away.

That still leaves $7.9 mil in bonuses over the 6-years of amortization. That equals $1.31 mil counting against the cap per year (7.9 divided by 6).

He's played 2 of those years. That leaves 4 years amortization remaining.

If he gets cut, those 4 years get accelerated into this year's cap.
So, 4 x $1.3 mil = $5.25 mil counted againt cap.

He is scheduled to make $2.75 mil this year.
5.25 - 2.75 = $2.5 million cap hit total.

What am I doing wrong?

[methos4ever]

Sal,
Don't forget his salary, which they could have guaranteed for the first few years, thus also involved in that bonus.

[SeatownBillsFan21]

I think your correct but i dont think it will be Doc not this off season anyways more like Denny or Kelsay or even Schobel 1 of our over paid over rated white boys

[clumping platelets]

2007:

Dockery rec'd $8.1 million as signing bonus amortized at $1.35 million over 6 yrs

He also rec'd a $4.4 million roster bonus

2008:

He rec'd a $3.5 million roster bonus

2009:

He's due a $1.75 million roster bonus on Friday


The "guaranteed" money was the bonus money rec'd in the 1st 2 yrs. That equalled $16 million

He has roster bonuses in every yr of his 7 yr deal.

[jamze132]

I would rather cut Kelsay and Denney.

[patmoran2006]

If there was a "high priced vet" released, looking over the contracts, I think Ryan Denney could be a candidate.

I'd say he qualifies as a "high priced vet" at $2.4 mil. He also only has one year left on his deal. So, that's all that would really count against the cap anyway, and he's not exactly a cornerstone player.
This wouldnt surprise me either, especially if they're looking to get a guy like Antonio Smith, Bertrand Berry or Chris Canty.

[mybills]

I like Denney. :(

[BlackMetalNinja]

Kelsay or Denney seem much more likely, and less painful.

[realdealryan]

I thought Denney had a much better season than Kelsay. I figure that Kelsay and Rob Royal are gone, and I might be way off base here, but how much is Spencer Johnson making?

[clumping platelets]

If they cut someone today, it's likely someone with a roster bonus due Friday

Dockery $1.75 million
Spencer Johnson $2.5 million
Kelsay $600,000
Schobel $3.5 million

[patmoran2006]

Telling ya.. Jason Brown may be our next left guard. I think Dockery goes bye bye today.

But I want it to be Kelsay.

[floridajoe]

There is really no reason to release Denney. He doesnt have a high salary and is a good backup. There is room on this team for another DE without cutting Denney. Now, if you think we're getting TWO new DEs, then a cut will have to be made. But I see them carrying 5 DEs this year, one of which will be Denney.

[realdealryan]

If they cut someone today, it's likely someone with a roster bonus due Friday

Dockery $1.75 million
Spencer Johnson $2.5 million
Kelsay $600,000
Schobel $3.5 million
Thanks for the confirmation; I thought he was going to get some money - but then again, I am full of cold medicine.


Telling ya.. Jason Brown may be our next left guard. I think Dockery goes bye bye today.

But I want it to be Kelsay.

Preston, Saturday, Meester in the middle?

[patmoran2006]

Thanks for the confirmation; I thought he was going to get some money - but then again, I am full of cold medicine.



Preston, Saturday, Meester in the middle?
I think Saturday would would have to get blown away to come to Buffalo. Pittsburgh is interested in him, I think.

It's very possible our next center could come via the draft-- but I'm really not into having a rookie center starting.

I do expect Preston to be brought back, hopefully as a backup to all three interior positions.

[floridajoe]

If they cut someone today, it's likely someone with a roster bonus due Friday

Dockery $1.75 million
Spencer Johnson $2.5 million
Kelsay $600,000
Schobel $3.5 million

What about their 2009 salaries? Do we have actual numbers on these?

[clumping platelets]

Cap Page will be posted soon :nod:

[yordad]

Murphy randomly threw in a line about the Bills getting ready to release a high priced vet before free agency on the 11:00 news. He knows something.You mean you didn't hear it here first? :eek:

[Wally The Barber]

I believe it will snow in Buffalo during the winter

[M]

I hope it's not Dockery. He didn't have a lot of help this year. Hold Out wasn't up to par until late in the season and we all know how our center faired.

[Pinkerton Security]

If they cut Denney i'll be pissed. Hes cheaper than Kelsay, and they are the same player: "high-motor" guys that are solid against the run and get like 2 sacks a year. The only difference to me is that Denney is taller and therefore is better at both of their patented "whap the ball down because im too crappy to actually get near the QB" moves.

[patmoran2006]

I believe it will snow in Buffalo during the winter
Are you saying that my prediction of us cutting Dockery today is PREDICTABLE? I was actually afraid to state it in fair of constant heckling should it not happen.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
But I would hardly call a Dockery release predictable.. In fact, I think most people would find it quite a shock.<o:p></o:p>

[Ebenezer]

Are you saying that my prediction of us cutting Dockery today is PREDICTABLE? I was actually afraid to state it in fair of constant heckling should it not happen.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
But I would hardly call a Dockery release predictable.. In fact, I think most people would find it quite a shock.<o:p></o:p>
Pat, if everyday you predict the Bills are going to release a high priced veteran you just might be right someday....maybe.

[psubills62]

Hey clump, what are the cap numbers like if the Bills release Parrish? Just curious...

[Ebenezer]

Hey clump, what are the cap numbers like if the Bills release Parrish? Just curious...
why would they do that?

[ddaryl]

why should we release any player until we sign that players replacement.

We won't release anyone until we have the luxury of doing that.

[psubills62]

why would they do that?

Because he's not a legitimate WR and we could easily upgrade his slot position in the draft...

[Pinkerton Security]

Because he's not a legitimate WR and we could easily upgrade his slot position in the draft...

its not a bad thought but i dont think his cap savings will be worth losing a fan favorite and arguably the best punt returner in the NFL.

[Jan Reimers]

I think it is becoming increasingly difficult for us to sign quality free agents, without throwing outrageous amounts of money at them. (Witness the Dockery and Walker signings a couple of years ago.) I think we're viewed as a cheap organization with horrible weather, that never makes the playoffs.

Honestly, what major free agent wants to come to Buffalo anymore?

[floridajoe]

I have to agree. I'm not a huge fan of Parrish but I know a lot of folks are. I don't think his roster spot is hurting us at all.

[clumping platelets]

Parrish cap savings would be about $2.25 million

[ddaryl]

Hey clump, what are the cap numbers like if the Bills release Parrish? Just curious...


he has great trade value, so before releasing such a player it would make even better sense to package him for a player or picks..

I think 31 other teams might have interest in one of the best punt returners of all time.

[clumping platelets]

Then why get rid of him?

[shelby]

We should keep Roscoe.

i keep waiting for some big announcement.....:tap:

[Mr. Pink]

Maybe we can release a couple...

Kelsay, Schobel, Denney for example!

Dock wouldn't be too big of a loss either in my opinion but maybe, just maybe, he'll perform better if we get a center worth a damn.

Too bad that with the money he makes he's supposed to be a difference maker and a guy who makes other people better and he's not.

[Yasgur's Farm]

2007:

Dockery rec'd $8.1 million as signing bonus amortized at $1.35 million over 6 yrs

He also rec'd a $4.4 million roster bonus

2008:

He rec'd a $3.5 million roster bonus

2009:

He's due a $1.75 million roster bonus on Friday


The "guaranteed" money was the bonus money rec'd in the 1st 2 yrs. That equalled $16 million

He has roster bonuses in every yr of his 7 yr deal.Thanks clump... I can actually understand this. It makes sense to let him go... Especially considering his future roster bonuses and salaries.

[psubills62]

Hm I'm a little surprised at so many people defending Parrish.

First of all, when Parrish was out, how many people really saw a huge drop off between his punt returns and Fred Jackson's? Also, it would be easy to put McGee back returning kicks and let McKelvin switch to returning punts, since that was his specialty in college.

Secondly, I'd be all for trading him. I just wouldn't be surprised if he got released. Most teams don't place the emphasis on special teams that we do, and they're happy having average punt returners.

I just don't see him offering much of anything as a receiver. He's never had more than 360 yards in a season, despite obviously having "big play ability." He runs poor routes, doesn't have great hands, and can easily be upgraded in the later rounds of this draft.

[patmoran2006]

If there is anything to go down, it will be announced before 4pm.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
That’s also the deadline for teams to tender RFA’s, and I’m positive Ellison is going to be tendered, among others I’m sure.<o:p></o:p>

[realdealryan]

Then why get rid of him?

I see the money side of it, to an extent, but who will return punts? Leonhard is gone and McLovin is going to start on defense. You'd like to pay a receiver who doesn't start less money, but he's an integral part of our awesome kicking game. I'm not quite ready to part with the guy to try and improve our offense or defense by a couple of million bucks, but ask me in December and I might sing a different tune.

[shelby]

Hm I'm a little surprised at so many people defending Parrish.

First of all, when Parrish was out, how many people really saw a huge drop off between his punt returns and Fred Jackson's? Also, it would be easy to put McGee back returning kicks and let McKelvin switch to returning punts, since that was his specialty in college.

Secondly, I'd be all for trading him. I just wouldn't be surprised if he got released. Most teams don't place the emphasis on special teams that we do, and they're happy having average punt returners.

I just don't see him offering much of anything as a receiver. He's never had more than 360 yards in a season, despite obviously having "big play ability." He runs poor routes, doesn't have great hands, and can easily be upgraded in the later rounds of this draft.

i understand your thinking, but i don't want my # 2 RB returning punts. There has also been a lot of speculation that McGee may not be a Bill next season.

[billogic99]

Patmoran 2006 is psychic......

http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/02/26/bills-free-up-cap-space-by-releasing-dockery/

[clumping platelets]

I cursed him cuz I got his jersey :mad:

[clumping platelets]

I still have a Stroud and Moorman jersey :scared:

[TacklingDummy]

If they cut someone today, it's likely someone with a roster bonus due Friday

Dockery $1.75 million
Spencer Johnson $2.5 million
Kelsay $600,000
Schobel $3.5 million

Keep Dockery, cut the other 3.

Schobel won't last the season.

[DBrown77]

Nice prediciton Pat! dead on

[M]

:sadbye: At least I hope they sending the centers with him.

[User Manuel]

I am so pissed now, Moran gets all of the credit and i called this on February 9th!!!!

[Dujek]

Good call Pat.

And Lawesome...

[ddaryl]

http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/02/26/bills-free-up-cap-space-by-releasing-dockery/


The Bills will have to accelerate $5.4 million against their cap, but a big contract is off their books. And Dockery is on the market.


the Dockery move makes absolutly 0 sense to me. It costs us 5.4 million in cap space to cut Dockery, and now we have a massive hole to fill at LG and 5.4 million less in cap space to fill it.

[patmoran2006]

I have reason to believe the BIlls are very close to releasing a high priced veteran tomorrow before free agency. And it may be that his name would rhyme with "Mockery"

LOL, well not laughing.. Seriously.. Dont be the least bit surprised if you see a "big" name Bill getting cut tomorrow.

YOu heard it hear first, beeothces!! (that's my professionalism speaking)

you are welcome.

Every now and then, I do talk to someone and find out something LEGIT.

[realdealryan]

you are welcome.

Every now and then, I do talk to someone and find out something LEGIT.

That's it? *still hoping for cussing told-you-so tirade*

[Al the Bills Fan]

Good Job Pat!

[patmoran2006]

The Bills are saving $26.5 million over the life of Dockery's contract by cutting him right now.


Hmmm. A pure football move, or a big financial move?

[floridajoe]

The Bills are saving $26.5 million over the life of Dockery's contract by cutting him right now.


Hmmm. A pure football move, or a big financial move?

I think its safe to say its a little of both

[Michael82]

The Bills are saving $26.5 million over the life of Dockery's contract by cutting him right now.


Hmmm. A pure football move, or a big financial move?
That means it gives them more cash to the cap money. I think that they are trying to free up some big money for a couple starters tomorrow...... :pray:

[HHURRICANE]

I have reason to believe the BIlls are very close to releasing a high priced veteran tomorrow before free agency. And it may be that his name would rhyme with "Mockery"

LOL, well not laughing.. Seriously.. Dont be the least bit surprised if you see a "big" name Bill getting cut tomorrow.

YOu heard it hear first, beeothces!! (that's my professionalism speaking)

You get mega kudos!!!!!

[X-Era]

The Bills are saving $26.5 million over the life of Dockery's contract by cutting him right now.


Hmmm. A pure football move, or a big financial move?
I gotta think cash to cap works in reverse too.

Yes, we may have a cap hit for this move, but his money is off our books and to me that means we now can spend an additional chunk of change from a cash to cap standpoint.

[X-Era]

That means it gives them more cash to the cap money. I think that they are trying to free up some big money for a couple starters tomorrow...... :pray:

:pray:

[Marvelous]

Isn't even mentioning CAP/MONEY ******ed since we don't spend withing 20 mill of the cap? So who the h*ll cares if we save or take the hit.