So some new guys in charge at OBD

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I don't have inside knowledge. But from the way things are shaping up now, I could see more evidence why Marv has left.

Addressing OL in free agency was big on Marv's plan. They went out and gave crazy money to Dockery.

Also a few other FA Marv brought in didn't pan out. I'd guess the wind of change was blowing in OBD and Marv decided to go out gracefully.

So who's calling the shots. Is it Modrak? Wasn't he supposed to have more say in football related matters, including free agency in the new structure Wilson announced last year?

[patmoran2006]

LOL. . A "few" of his FA's didnt pan out?
Here is a list of the FA's we signed during Levy's two years as GM.

2006<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
WR Andre Davis<o:p></o:p>
S Matt Bowen<o:p></o:p>
WR Peerless Price<o:p></o:p>
OG Tutan Reyes<o:p></o:p>
RB Anthony Thomas<o:p></o:p>
FB Alan Ricard<o:p></o:p>
QB Craig Nall<o:p></o:p>
TE Robert Royal<o:p></o:p>
OC Melvin Fowler<o:p></o:p>
OT Aaron Gibson<o:p></o:p>
DB Kiwaukee Thomas<o:p></o:p>
OL Matt Morgan<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
2007<o:p></o:p>
OT Langston Walker<o:p></o:p>
OG Jason Whittle<o:p></o:p>
OG Derrick Dockery<o:p></o:p>


That is DISPICIBLE. Bowing out gracefully is the least he could do. But blame it on Ralph, Levy was in over his head.. how the same regime continues minus Marv after this mess, is beyond me.

[yordad]

Hey, Walker is solid!

[bigbub2352]

i agree completely and John guy which i wrote a thread about is as much to blame as the GMs who keep him on the job, Tom D's guy who is still here
what a joke

[TacklingDummy]

LOL. . A "few" of his FA's didnt pan out?
Here is a list of the FA's we signed during Levy's two years as GM.

2006<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
WR Andre Davis<o:p></o:p>
S Matt Bowen<o:p></o:p>
WR Peerless Price<o:p></o:p>
OG Tutan Reyes<o:p></o:p>
RB Anthony Thomas<o:p></o:p>
FB Alan Ricard<o:p></o:p>
QB Craig Nall<o:p></o:p>
TE Robert Royal<o:p></o:p>
OC Melvin Fowler<o:p></o:p>
OT Aaron Gibson<o:p></o:p>
DB Kiwaukee Thomas<o:p></o:p>
OL Matt Morgan<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
2007<o:p></o:p>
OT Langston Walker<o:p></o:p>
OG Jason Whittle<o:p></o:p>
OG Derrick Dockery<o:p></o:p>


That is DISPICIBLE. Bowing out gracefully is the least he could do. But blame it on Ralph, Levy was in over his head.. how the same regime continues minus Marv after this mess, is beyond me.

Can you list the other 31 teams Free Agent signing during that period so we have something to compare it to. Thanks.

[patmoran2006]

Can you list the other 31 teams Free Agent signing during that period so we have something to compare it to. Thanks.
I can, but I won't.

Gonna go out on a limb and GUESS that most teams have signed better FA's than the Buffalo Bills.

[TacklingDummy]

I can, but I won't.

Gonna go out on a limb and GUESS that most teams have signed better FA's than the Buffalo Bills.
And Im going to go out on a limb that if you look at most teams free agent signings that most of them don't work out. Of course there are always the exceptions. But I am sure that the majority don't work out.

[patmoran2006]

And Im going to go out on a limb that if you look at most teams free agent signings that most of them don't work out. Of course there are always the exceptions. But I am sure that the majority don't work out.
There is ONE FA on that list over two years that is even SERVICABLE! and thats walker.

In fact, he and Royal are the only two even on the ROSTER, and Royal is probably gone soon.

[TacklingDummy]

2006 Lions:

Shaun King
COREY BRADFORD
DAN CAMPBELL
QB JOSH McCOWN
RB ARLEN HARRIS
QB JON KITNA
Rex Tucker
LB Paris Lenon
G Barry Stokes
T Courtney VanBuren
S Idrees Bashir
WR MIKE FURREY
G Tyrone Hopson
WR Brett Fischer
DT Damian Gregory
DT Cleveland Pinkney
DT TYOKA JACKSON
DB JAMAR FLETCHER
DE Claude Harriott
G Ross Verba

2007 Lions:

DE DEWAYNE WHITE.
DE COREY SMITH.
CB Travis Fisher
RB T.J. Duckett
WR Shaun McDonald
G ZACH PILLER.
G Edwin Mulitalo
WR Marcus Robinson
WR Cliff Russell

[yordad]

There is ONE FA on that list over two years that is even SERVICABLE! and thats walker.

In fact, he and Royal are the only two even on the ROSTER, and Royal is probably gone soon.I give your report an "I" for incomplete but interesting.

[DraftBoy]

I think its safe to say "The Tripod of Doom" experiment should be over already! Unfortunately its not...

[DraftBoy]

2006 Lions:

Shaun King
COREY BRADFORD
DAN CAMPBELL
QB JOSH McCOWN
RB ARLEN HARRIS
QB JON KITNA
Rex Tucker
LB Paris Lenon
G Barry Stokes
T Courtney VanBuren
S Idrees Bashir
WR MIKE FURREY
G Tyrone Hopson
WR Brett Fischer
DT Damian Gregory
DT Cleveland Pinkney
DT TYOKA JACKSON
DB JAMAR FLETCHER
DE Claude Harriott
G Ross Verba

Kitna, Lenon, Furrey were all great signings for them that year.

Kitna is a good QB, Furrey was a 1000yd+ WR and Lenon recorded 121 tackles as their starting MLB this season. They by far kicked our ass in FA gets. What's your point?

[patmoran2006]

2006 Lions:

Shaun King
COREY BRADFORD
DAN CAMPBELL
QB JOSH McCOWN
RB ARLEN HARRIS
QB JON KITNA
Rex Tucker
LB Paris Lenon
G Barry Stokes
T Courtney VanBuren
S Idrees Bashir
WR MIKE FURREY
G Tyrone Hopson
WR Brett Fischer
DT Damian Gregory
DT Cleveland Pinkney
DT TYOKA JACKSON
DB JAMAR FLETCHER
DE Claude Harriott
G Ross Verba

2007 Lions:

DE DEWAYNE WHITE.
DE COREY SMITH.
CB Travis Fisher
RB T.J. Duckett
WR Shaun McDonald
G ZACH PILLER.
G Edwin Mulitalo
WR Marcus Robinson
WR Cliff Russell
You’ve got to be kidding me?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

For starters, there are a couple of players that did very well for <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Detroit</st1:place></st1:City> on that list. For another, the mere fact that you have to go to the Detroit Lions to try and give a comparison is indicative on how pathetic this front office and our FA signings have been.<o:p></o:p>

[GreedoII]

One of the worst FA list in NFL history!! Good post Pat.

[DraftBoy]

You’ve got to be kidding me?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

For starters, there are a couple of players that did very well for <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Detroit</st1:place></st1:City> on that list. For another, the mere fact that you have to go to the Detroit Lions to try and give a comparison is indicative on how pathetic this front office and our FA signings have been.<o:p></o:p>

What's sad is that he has no idea what he's talking about considering that with Kitna, Furrey, and Lenon in 2006, you can add Dewayne White, Edwin Mulitalo, Shaun McDonald, and Travis Fisher to their good signing from their 07 class.

TD what the hell is your point aside from further proving Pat right?

[TacklingDummy]

For another, the mere fact that you have to go to the Detroit Lions to try and give a comparison is indicative on how pathetic this front office and our FA signings have been.
So its fair to compare a struggling team the past 10 years to a team that hasn't been struggling?

The Bills have not been struggling because they have had poor Free Agent signings. They have been struggling because of poor drafts.

[patmoran2006]

DeWayne White, in only 12 games had 6.5 sacks and 3 FF last year, which would’ve led the Bills in both categories. .he’s a solid FA pickup.

[TacklingDummy]

What's sad is that he has no idea what he's talking about considering that with Kitna, Furrey, and Lenon in 2006, you can add Dewayne White, Edwin Mulitalo, Shaun McDonald, and Travis Fisher to their good signing from their 07 class.

TD what the hell is your point aside from further proving Pat right?

It seems that you are the only one who thinks Detroit's free agents signings are have been good. Kitna, Furrey? :rolleyes:

Facts are that most Free Agent signings don't work out. Spin it all you want.

[DraftBoy]

It seems that you are the only one who thinks Detroit's free agents signings are have been good. Kitna, Furrey? :rolleyes:

Facts are that most Free Agent signings don't work out. Spin it all you want.

That is by far one of your stupidest statments of all time.

[DraftBoy]

DeWayne White, in only 12 games had 6.5 sacks and 3 FF last year, which would’ve led the Bills in both categories. .he’s a solid FA pickup.

Stats do not matter damnit! TD said they suck, so they obviously suck that is all that matters!

[TacklingDummy]

How the hell did New England ever do it?

2006 New England

Signed wide receiver Reche Caldwell, who had been with the San Diego Chargers.

Signed cornerback Eric Warfield, who had been with the Kansas City Chiefs.

Signed safety Mel Mitchell, who had been with the New Orleans Saints.

Signed safety Tebucky Jones, who had been with the Miami Dolphins

; signed linebacker Barry Gardner, who had been with the New York Jets;

signed linebacker Jeremy Loyd, who had been with the St. Louis Rams.

Jarvis Herring
Keon Jackson
Sam Smith
Corey Mays
Freddie Roach
Pierre Woods
Vernell Brown
Gemara Williams
Erik Davis
Matt Shelton
Remi Ayodele
Brian Barthelmes
Corey Bramlet
Kader Drame
tackle Randy Hand

[TacklingDummy]

That is by far one of your stupidest statments of all time.

The truth is stupid?

Kitna blows, so does Furrey.
And it is fact that most free agent signings don't work out.

There is nothing stupid about the statement, can't say the same about the response.

[TacklingDummy]

Stats do not matter damnit! TD said they suck, so they obviously suck that is all that matters! DeWayne White would be the exception. In my very first post about this subject I said there are always exceptions.

[justasportsfan]

How the hell did New England ever do it?


coaching

[Bulldog]

I just wish Buffalo had WR's that suck and can still amass a 1,000 YDS in a season.

[TacklingDummy]

I just wish Buffalo had WR's that suck and can still amass a 1,000 YDS in a season.

yeah because his 845 yards and 1 TD reception the past 2 years is so impressive. He has Buffalo Bill written all over him. Has the Bills poor play the past 10 years lowered the fans standards that much?

[DraftBoy]

The truth is stupid?

Kitna blows, so does Furrey.
And it is fact that most free agent signings don't work out.

There is nothing stupid about the statement, can't say the same about the response.

1000yd WR's suck now? So Evans sucks to. I love your logic here! Please continue its just so damn entertaining. What about Lenon? Mulitalo?

[patmoran2006]

The truth is stupid?

Kitna blows, so does Furrey.
And it is fact that most free agent signings don't work out.

There is nothing stupid about the statement, can't say the same about the response.
Agreed most FA dont work out.

You just used a horrible example with Detroit.

and though most dont work out, most teams at least hit a few doubles. We drew a few walks at best.. Its only been three years, and Walker is now currently the ONLY player we signed who's even on the ****in team.

[TacklingDummy]

1000yd WR's suck now? So Evans sucks to. I love your logic here!

This reminds me of how acehole use to pimp Losman's 11th QB rating 3 years ago. :lol: Who give's a crap what someone did 3 years ago? This is a what have you done for me lately league. And what has Furrey done lately? The answer is real easy, let's see if you know it.

[TacklingDummy]

Agreed most FA dont work out.

You just used a horrible example with Detroit.

and though most dont work out, most teams at least hit a few doubles. We drew a few walks at best.. Its only been three years, and Walker is now currently the ONLY player we signed who's even on the ****in team.

Agreed. :clap:

Detroit is not a bad example, most of their Free Agent signings didn't work out either, as Buffalo's and New England's didn't.

Give me an A draft over an A Free Agent signings any day.

[Mr. Pink]

This reminds me of how acehole use to pimp Losman's 11th QB rating 3 years ago. :lol: Who give's a crap what someone did 3 years ago? This is a what have you done for me latly league. And what has Furrey done lately? The answer is real easy, let's see if you know it.

Yes but the year they signed him, he made a big impact.

Comparing the Lions over the past three years and us is laughable.

Even with Matt Millen they made a better impact via FA than we did.

[TacklingDummy]

Comparing the Lions over the past three years and us is laughable.



I'd love to compare the Bills to Pittsburgh, New England, Indy, NYG, Phila, Dallas, Tenn.

[TacklingDummy]

Even with Matt Millen they made a better impact via FA than we did.

He may have even drafted better than Buffalo. It's close. Buffalo has a slight advantage.

[Mr. Pink]

He may have even drafted better than Buffalo. It's close. Buffalo has a slight advantage.


Sad but true...sad but true.

[DraftBoy]

This reminds me of how acehole use to pimp Losman's 11th QB rating 3 years ago. :lol: Who give's a crap what someone did 3 years ago? This is a what have you done for me lately league. And what has Furrey done lately? The answer is real easy, let's see if you know it.

No its not, its about the impact the player made for the team. He made a huge one, got hurt and now may never be back in the league again due to age, and injury. It happens all the time. You picked a horrible comparison and you admitted to such, move on.

[Mr. Pink]

I'd love to compare the Bills to Pittsburgh, New England, Indy, NYG, Phila, Dallas, Tenn.

It's no contest, each one of these teams have brought in at least ONE impact player via FA for a few seasons....

We've brought in one solid player.

[TacklingDummy]

You picked a horrible comparison and you admitted to such, move on. When did I admit this? Example was not horrible, most of Detroit's free agent signings did not work out. I said in my very first post there would be exceptions.

As far as Furrey is concerned, big deal. He's nothing special.

[SeatownBillsFan21]

Thanks for reminding me how awful this FO is and the mistakes they have made.That said the FO has got to be freeing up money for a HUGE off season i just hope the right guys are pulling the trigger.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Thanks for reminding me how awful this FO is and the mistakes they have made.That said the FO has got to be freeing up money for a HUGE off season i just hope the right guys are pulling the trigger.

I'm not down on Modrak as much as most on this board. From the bits and pieces of signs, it looks like he's the main guy now making football decisions in OBD. Remember the interview he gave from the combine when he said in a matter of fact way that he thinks the core talent is above what they showed last year. I don't believe I've seen him making this kind of statement - statements that is easily a slap on the coaching staff - any where during his career: not in Pittsburgh (too much ego heads above him, the Rooneys, Cowher, TD), not in Phily. He's just more assertive these days.

He has a good track record, in Pitt and in Phily. So I hope the old Ralph finally saw a little light and turned to him more and pushed Marv out of the door. My long standing guess is that Ralph really wanted Modrak to be the GM, but as we know Modrak always shied away from that, so instead of bringing some power guy (real GM) in, Ralph decided to put the figure head in this young marketing guru Brandon where the real football personnel decision is made by Modrak.

[justasportsfan]

I'm not down on Modrak as much as most on this board. From the bits and pieces of signs, it looks like he's the main guy now making football decisions in OBD. Remember the interview he gave from the combine when he said in a matter of fact way that he thinks the core talent is above what they showed last year. I don't believe I've seen him making this kind of statement - statements that is easily a slap on the coaching staff - any where during his career: not in Pittsburgh (too much ego heads above him, the Rooneys, Cowher, TD), not in Phily. He's just more assertive these days.

He has a good track record, in Pitt and in Phily. So I hope the old Ralph finally saw a little light and turned to him more and pushed Marv out of the door. My long standing guess is that Ralph really wanted Modrak to be the GM, but as we know Modrak always shied away from that, so instead of bringing some power guy (real GM) in, Ralph decided to put the figure head in this young marketing guru Brandon where the real football personnel decision is made by Modrak.Same here. I thnk Tom was given limited roles in the past which is why he suposedly worked or chose to work from home.

He was reported to being present at the Ralpy / Dick meeting. I can only assume that Ralph told Modrak , "Get Dick the players and you're running the show now " which could explain why he's very visible and all over bb.com being interviewed at the combine, etc.etc.

[SeatownBillsFan21]

Well i hope that he makes some good moves. the fans will come if they bring in some bigger names to get people talking playoffs its now or never for RW and hes gotta know that so spend and nail the draft and we might be talking playoffs

[jmb1099]

Few thoughts on the thread in general:
1) Obviously hindsight being 20/20 Marv didn't do well
2) We all hoped he would
3) Insert any team name and failure is higher than success
4) Marv doesn't get "a pass" because of that, but it is what it is
5) We need to do better, at least to the level of successful teams around the league (thank you captain obvious)
6) Releasing Dockery and Royal means we're either going to try something big, or that we have zero clue how to manage an NFL team
7) Given our recent past I'd say we have no clue, but I hope to be wrong

[cookie G]

LOL. . A "few" of his FA's didnt pan out?
Here is a list of the FA's we signed during Levy's two years as GM.

2006<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
WR Andre Davis<o:p></o:p>
S Matt Bowen<o:p></o:p>
WR Peerless Price<o:p></o:p>
OG Tutan Reyes<o:p></o:p>
RB Anthony Thomas<o:p></o:p>
FB Alan Ricard<o:p></o:p>
QB Craig Nall<o:p></o:p>
TE Robert Royal<o:p></o:p>
OC Melvin Fowler<o:p></o:p>
OT Aaron Gibson<o:p></o:p>
DB Kiwaukee Thomas<o:p></o:p>
OL Matt Morgan<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
2007<o:p></o:p>
OT Langston Walker<o:p></o:p>
OG Jason Whittle<o:p></o:p>
OG Derrick Dockery<o:p></o:p>


That is DISPICIBLE. Bowing out gracefully is the least he could do. But blame it on Ralph, Levy was in over his head.. how the same regime continues minus Marv after this mess, is beyond me.

He took over in January of 2006, less than 2 months before FA began. I seriously doubt he had the ability to analyze the free agent market during that time, especially considering he had to hire a head coach and assistants during that time.

Not making excuses for him, but I do doubt that he wasn't the one evaluating the pool of pro talent in 2006. Unfortunately, the guy who probably WAS doing the evaluating during that time is still here.

As far as 2007 goes, I wouldn't say that Walker "didn't pan out".

As much as Dockery has been maligned....well, I don't know if people remember how bad our OL was before 2007. I don't remember too many times over the last 8 years when a Bills' QB had 4-5 seconds to throw, like you had the last 2 years. In terms of running the ball, the Bills actually got pretty good over the last half of last season, especially to the left hand side. I'll take the line over the last 2 years to any of them over the prior 6.

And who will be evaluating the FA Oline talent? The same guy who most likely evaluated:

Melvin Fowler
Tuten Reyes
Bennie Anderson
Lawrence Smith
Trey Teague
Chris Heimburger

Unless they're going to nab a no brainer like Jason Brown, I don't feel all that comfortable about John Guy finding an up and comer.

[justasportsfan]

Few thoughts on the thread in general:
1) Obviously hindsight being 20/20 Marv didn't do well
2) We all hoped he would
3) Insert any team name and failure is higher than success
4) Marv doesn't get "a pass" because of that, but it is what it is
5) We need to do better, at least to the level of successful teams around the league (thank you captain obvious)
6) Releasing Dockery and Royal means we're either going to try something big, or that we have zero clue how to manage an NFL team
7) Given our recent past I'd say we have no clue, but I hope to be wrong
I believe MArv was a bubblehead. He gave them the blueprint of what needs to be done but wasn't part of player acquisitions or moves.

[cocamide]

The Bills suck. Why are we arguing?

[justasportsfan]

Moran really shouldn't be talking about our FA busts since he thought Tutan Reyes was a big acquisition (even got into it with ICe) and so was Andre Davis,etc.etc.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I believe MArv was a bubblehead. He gave them the blueprint of what needs to be done but wasn't part of player acquisitions or moves.

What if the talent evaluator said that Dockery is not worth the $7 mil a year price tag that he's asking for to sign right there right now? The decision goes back to the GM.

Around here in Pittsburgh, people talked about the Dockery money often last year referecing the pro-ball guard who eventually went to the Jets last year. The story was like no one believed Dockery was worth what he asked for, but Marv decided to cave in so that his goal of shoring up the O-Line can be achieved.

From certain angles, you can't say that's bad definitively. But from a long term view point, it's definitely bad.

[justasportsfan]

What if the talent evaluator said that Dockery is not worth the $7 mil a year price tag that he's asking for to sign right there right now? The decision goes back to the GM.

.
I agree. But I doubt MArv had such powers. John Guy?Russ Brandon? Could be the reason why MArv left? :idunno:

[Michael82]

I'm starting to think that Tom Modrak has more say this year. Maybe they are finally starting to weed that idiot John Guy out. I guess we'll see. Either way, it looks like they realized that talent was a problem and now they are trying to free up the money so they can sign a couple big names....