Pats and Chiefs should be investigated for collusion

[Coach Sal]

There only two possible explanations for this.
1. Stupidity
2. Collusion

And we all know Belichick 'aint stupid.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afceast/0-6-0/Why-would-Pats-turn-down-12th-pick-for-Cassel-.html

[Coach Sal]

The "we'd rather have a 2nd round pick than #12 overall" defense has to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard!

[SquishDaFish]

They def had a deal way in advance

[yordad]

No doubt.

[Ickybaluky]

The "we'd rather have a 2nd round pick than #12 overall" defense has to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard!

I guess you will have to point out to me exactly where the Pats said that.

This article explains it better:

LINK (http://blogs.nbcsports.com/home/archives/2009/03/on-cassel-pats-werent-waiting.html)

The Pats already had an agreement with the other offer came. The idea they would turn down greater compensation is ludicrous.

[SquishDaFish]

They had a deal with Pioli prob when Pioli left. Screw the Pats

[madness]

I guess you will have to point out to me exactly where the Pats said that.

This article explains it better:

LINK (http://blogs.nbcsports.com/home/archives/2009/03/on-cassel-pats-werent-waiting.html)

The Pats already had an agreement with the other offer came. The idea they would turn down greater compensation is ludicrous.

Either way, something definitely smells fishy.



Mort and I have exchanged a few e-mails on the subject. Here is how he broke down the proposed three-way deal:

This one defies logic, but a source I really trust tells me it's true: The Broncos were willing to offer their own first-round pick (12th overall) to the Patriots for Cassel. Obviously, it was conditional upon Cutler being traded and Tampa Bay was the most likely destination, the Bucs willing to part with their first- and third-round picks.
But Belichick never embraced a trade with the Broncos, even though it was a head-scratcher on the value part (second-rounder versus a first-rounder). It suggests two or three speculative thoughts:

Belichick has always valued second-round picks (he now has three) and didn't want to be stuck at No. 12 financially for whatever reason;
Belichick had an agreement with Pioli all along and wouldn't break his word;
Belichick isn't about to help another former assistant.The Broncos sensed resistance all along, which is why they held the Bucs, Lions, Vikings, etc., at arm's length and allows McDaniels his plausible deniability on trading Cutler (and logic supports his denial).
However, despite intense efforts to keep this run at Cassel under wraps, enough damage has been done that Cutler may now be on the block.
The Broncos/Cutler aspect of the trade was reported by the Boston Globe. A Patriots' leak? Why? To mess with McDaniels?

[Nighthawk]

Does this really surprise anybody? There definitely was some "old boys" dealing going on with that deal.

[Forward_Lateral]

I don't understand how it's collusion. Aren't teams allowed to have trade talks whenever they want?

[Goobylal]

Why does anyone care? I'm glad they got a 2nd rounder and not a 1st rounder. Although I'm pissed they were able to trade Cassel at all. I think he'll end up being another Scott Mitchell when all is said and done.

[TigerJ]

Of course, from the prespective of the Bills, Bill Belichick with and extra #12 overall pick is much more onerous than a Bill Belichick with an extra second rounder. At the same time, if he were to get in trouble for that, so much the better.

[DraftBoy]

Why should we get pissed off about this? The Pats took less for their players. Im happy that it happened this way.

[billogic99]

Is anyone else not amazed at the number of times BB is involved with something that just doesn't seem to be above board?? It's like every 6 months or so we hear BB was involved with something different that makes people question him. BB has already had a lifetime of controversy in just the past 6 years. I'm sick of it.

[billogic99]

Why should we get pissed off about this? The Pats took less for their players. Im happy that it happened this way.

It's not about what they took, it's about yet another controversy.

[Goobylal]

Is anyone else not amazed at the number of times BB is involved with something that just doesn't seem to be above board?? It's like every 6 months or so we hear BB was involved with something different that makes people question him. BB has already had a lifetime of controversey in just the past 6 years. I'm sick of it.
The allegations of "extra frequencies" were shut-down right quick.

[BAM]

Karma's a beeeotch. 18-1.

[Kenny]

I don't understand how it's collusion. Aren't teams allowed to have trade talks whenever they want?

exactly? I mean unless this deal was done before the start of FA, I dont see why there's anything wrong? NE doesnt have to deal with TB or DEN if they dont want to.

[topher180]

As much as I can't stand Belichick, who cares. We'll never know the exact order of how all of this went down. And as someone else eluded to...I'm pretty much desensitized to his shenanigans.

[DraftBoy]

It's not about what they took, it's about yet another controversy.

Well in that case, let me rephrase...who actually gives a ****? They took a lesser deal, be happy for once.

[Coach Sal]

I guess you will have to point out to me exactly where the Pats said that.

This article explains it better:

LINK (http://blogs.nbcsports.com/home/archives/2009/03/on-cassel-pats-werent-waiting.html)

The Pats already had an agreement with the other offer came. The idea they would turn down greater compensation is ludicrous.

Not the Pats themselves. Pats fans. Graham wrote:
Several citizens of Patriot Nation have written into my AFC East mailbag and left notes in the comments section that Belichick didn't want a first-round pick for Cassel, that a second-rounder is more financially palatable.

Obviously, (even by your own comments) a lot of Pats fans are pretty stupid.

[Ickybaluky]

Not the Pats themselves. Pats fans. Graham wrote:
Several citizens of Patriot Nation have written into my AFC East mailbag and left notes in the comments section that Belichick didn't want a first-round pick for Cassel, that a second-rounder is more financially palatable.

Obviously, (even by your own comments) a lot of Pats fans are pretty stupid.

I think you can take the "Pats" out of that statement and just leave it at "fans".

A lot of fans get terribly irrational when following their teams. They invent conspiracies and form opinions with no real basis, just hypothetical scenarios.

You wrote:


There only two possible explanations for this.
1. Stupidity
2. Collusion

First of all, there can't really be collusion. The Pats had a player under contract and could trade him wherever they felt.

Secondly, there is another option. The better offer came to the table too late in the process, when the decision had already been made.

[justasportsfan]

why are we calling the rich stupid?

while the pats keep getting drafts by trading homegrown players, we can only manage to get a 4th rd for a player that we gave up picks for to move back up to draft in Mccargo only to be sent back.

there's JP and there's POZ who's mediocre at this point.

Cmon guys.

Since we ended up with Fitz to back up our unproven starter (yikes), which bust or who's career do you think we're going to ruin when we trade up for him in this years draft?

[BSXIII]

While conspiracy theories are exciting and all, the Patriots were probably in a hurry to get this resolved as time became a big factor as well. Free Agency is well underway, and they needed to get what they could, figure out their salary cap and draft situation, and move along with their offseason strategy.

Considering that Cassel is a franchised UFA, any deal would probably hinge on him signing a contract extension which would add additional time to the negotiations. The trading of Cutler and negotiating a contract for Cassel, both could have caused delays, or been deal breakers if they pulled out of the KC deal and pursued the Denver one.

The Patriots probably held onto Cassel longer than they would have liked, then took the best deal available at a deadline they set so they could still be players in free agency.

[Bert102176]

the NFL won't do anything to the Pats they could get away with anything heck they'll burn the tapes lol

[User Manuel]

I would not want to be on the hook for that 14.5 million attached to Cassell.

I frankly dont buy the fact that Pats would definately get a first for him. It was a buyers market. I think the Pats panicked when they tagged him because they thought Brady wasn't going to be ready.

Maybe, just maybe, the Pats needed to clear salary.

Dont forget, if Brady is back 14.5 million is a really tough pill to swallow for a backup.

[Dozerdog]

why are we calling the rich stupid?

while the pats keep getting drafts by trading homegrown players, we can only manage to get a 4th rd for a player that we gave up picks for to move back up to draft in Mccargo only to be sent back.

there's JP and there's POZ who's mediocre at this point.

Cmon guys.

Since we ended up with Fitz to back up our unproven starter (yikes), which bust or who's career do you think we're going to ruin when we trade up for him in this years draft?

The Pats are the top team in the league this decade because they draft guys nobody heard of (Cassell) with throw away picks and trade them for #1s or #2s

We take #1s and #2s and trade them away 2-3 years later for 4ths and 5ths. (McCargo, McGahee)

That's why we suck and they don't.

[Oaf]

That and we cut the highest paid lineman in football and let our corners walk after their first contract.

[Mr. Pink]

Collusion for what?

They traded the guy.

They can trade him to whoever they want for whatever they want as they had the "rights" to him.

If they wanted to send Cassel to the Broncos for a case of kicking tees they could have done that and have every right to do so.

[billogic99]

Collusion for what?

They traded the guy.

They can trade him to whoever they want for whatever they want as they had the "rights" to him.

If they wanted to send Cassel to the Broncos for a case of kicking tees they could have done that and have every right to do so.


So you think they would have passed on a 1st round pick had it been any other team but KC and Pioli? Every damn time something happens in NE it's shady. I'll guarantee NE and KC were dealing exclusively before FA began. Working out contract numbers and compensation. They just wated a few days before they did the deal to avoid trouble with the league.

Please expalin to me where the value is for NE to give up Cassel and Vrabel for a second rounder when they could have had the 13th pick and traded their lower 1st round pick for more picks? Or they could have trade the 13th pick for future compensation? Instead they give it up for a 2nd rounder only? Anywhere else on the planet that would be plain and simple stupidity, but NE does it and the reason is simply "they have the right to trade whomever they want to wherever they want? Ok sure.

[Ickybaluky]

I'll guarantee NE and KC were dealing exclusively before FA began. Working out contract numbers and compensation. They just wated a few days before they did the deal to avoid trouble with the league.

What exactly about talking trades is illegal?

You can talk trade about any player under contract at any time during the offseason, you just have to wait for the new league year to make it official. Didn't Minnesota and Houston agree on the Rosenfels trade days before FA?

Cassel signed the tender the day after it was offered, which means the Pats could negotiate with everyone and they with them about Cassel. He was just another player under contract since February 6th. They could negotiate terms.

The fact is the Pats were tight up against the cap, and it was keeping them from doing business. They couldn't wait a long time for things to play out because they needed to get Cassel off their cap. KC made an offer and they took it. If any other teams wanted to make a deal, they should tried to do it sooner. They could have called about him from any point after February 6th.

[Night Train]

The Pats dump big $ off the books and have 4 picks in the top 58 ( 3 2nd rounders )

Yeah..they're real dumb and their record proves it. :rolleyes:

[don137]

If anyone should be pissed it's Pats fans for not getting a first rounder or AFC West teams and fans because the Chiefs got two players for only a second round price tag.
As a Bills fans I am glad they did not get a first round pick for Cassel. If Bellichick wants to give away the farm that's his business. I can see if Bellichick resigned tomorrow and went to KC but he isn't.

I am more concerned about the state of the Bills right now.

[billogic99]

What exactly about talking trades is illegal?

You can talk trade about any player under contract at any time during the offseason, you just have to wait for the new league year to make it official. Didn't Minnesota and Houston agree on the Rosenfels trade days before FA?

Cassel signed the tender the day after it was offered, which means the Pats could negotiate with everyone and they with them about Cassel. He was just another player under contract since February 6th. They could negotiate terms.

The fact is the Pats were tight up against the cap, and it was keeping them from doing business. They couldn't wait a long time for things to play out because they needed to get Cassel off their cap. KC made an offer and they took it. If any other teams wanted to make a deal, they should tried to do it sooner. They could have called about him from any point after February 6th.


The fact is the Pats and Chiefs worked out a deal that best suits bioth their needs before the rest of the league could be given a chance to maybe land a player they need. I fail to see how that's any different than tampering. The reason you're not allowed to talk to a player under contract before FA's begins is to give the team he's still under contract with a chance to resign that player. By not allowing other teams to talk to Cassel or atleast make an offer you pretty much make the situation go the way you want it to go giving the advantage to only the Pats and Chiefs. That's not fair to the other teams around the league.

You say the bottom line the Pats need to clear cap space, well it doesn't matter who the Pats trade Cassel to, they would have cleared the space. I think it's further proof BB is a low life scum bag who just refuses to do things the right way. It's always something with this jerk. Look at the SB loss, he's sucj a POS he couldn't even wait till the time was off the clock before leaving the field, that was just total disrepect to the winning team and why? Cause he didn't win? What a frikin turd.

He's constantly looking to bend the rules to fit whatever it is he wants to do. He knew there were no camaeras allowed on the field or to video tape the other teams sidelines yet he does it anyways and than lies that he didn't know it was against the rules. He video tapped the Rams and Eagles walk through and then lied he didn't do that. The guy is a lier and this deal with KC was jsut more shady crap. There is no way in hell you can tell me the Pats got a better deal from KC than they could have gotten elsewhere especially since it's been reported the 13th overall pick was on the table and BB wanted a 2nd rounder more...BS!!!!!

[Mr. Pink]

Again you fail to grasp, it's a trade, they can trade a player to whatever team they want for whatever compensation they want.

There's no rule that says they have to talk to every team in the nfl.

There's no rule that they have to take the best offer given to them.

They could have traded him to the Bills for John McCargo if they wanted.

There's no tampering. There's no collusion. It's a trade.

Get over it.

[billogic99]

Again you fail to grasp, it's a trade, they can trade a player to whatever team they want for whatever compensation they want.

There's no rule that says they have to talk to every team in the nfl.

There's no rule that they have to take the best offer given to them.

They could have traded him to the Bills for John McCargo if they wanted.

There's no tampering. There's no collusion. It's a trade.

Get over it.

I don't have to get over anything this is my opinion of the situation, deal with it.

[Mad Bomber]

The Pats are the top team in the league this decade because they draft guys nobody heard of (Cassell) with throw away picks and trade them for #1s or #2s

We take #1s and #2s and trade them away 2-3 years later for 4ths and 5ths. (McCargo, McGahee)

That's why we suck and they don't.
:bf1: Exactly.

[RockStar36]

I see no issues with this deal. So they took a 2nd round pick. Maybe they didn't wan to spend more money on a first round pick when they could use that money in free agency. Seriously, what is the big deal? Is Matt Cassell even the real deal?

[trapezeus]

Belichick is like Ben from lost. He's always up to no good yet always seems to have things go his way.

the patriots excellence and the bills "lost" behavior is just too much to bare these days. We should have an over under poll on how many more years it will take before we beat the patriots.

[DraftBoy]

Belichick is like Ben from lost. He's always up to no good yet always seems to have things go his way.

the patriots excellence and the bills "lost" behavior is just too much to bare these days. We should have an over under poll on how many more years it will take before we beat the patriots.

O/U on 5 years till we sweep the Patriots. What do you have?

[RockStar36]

O/U on 5 years till we sweep the Patriots. What do you have?

Sweep? Over.

[DraftBoy]

Sweep? Over.

Im taking the under, but just barely the under. I feel as though we will completely rebuild in 2010 offseason and then by 2012 or 2013 be in good shape to make a deep playoff run.

[justasportsfan]

The Pats are the top team in the league this decade because they draft guys nobody heard of (Cassell) with throw away picks and trade them for #1s or #2s

We take #1s and #2s and trade them away 2-3 years later for 4ths and 5ths. (McCargo, McGahee)

That's why we suck and they don't.
they can turn crap into gold while we do the opposite which is why I can't call them stupid.