Drayton Florence remains in talks with Bills....

[BILLSROCK1212]

IF FLORENCE RETURNS, CROMARTIE GOES ON THE BLOCK
Posted by Mike Florio on March 2, 2009, 9:49 p.m.
At a time when the football world is waiting for an indication as to whether the San Diego Chargers will attempt to trade running back LaDainian Tomlinson, the Chargers could be plotting another move.

According to Kevin Acee of the San Diego Union-Tribune, cornerback Antonio Cromartie will be placed on the block if the team manages to re-sign cornerback Drayton Florence, a free agency departure a year ago.

Cromartie, a first-round pick in 2006 whose stock dropped after he suffered a torn ACL in July of what would have been his final year at Florida State, is signed through 2010.

The concern is that Cromatie’s production slid after a solid 2007 season (he won the first PFT Darrell Green Award) that prompted the team to let Florence walk via free agency to the Jaguars.

It remains to be seen whether the Chargers swap out Cromartie for Florence; we’re told that Florence remains in talks with the Chargers and the Bills.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/category/rumor-mill/

[THATHURMANATOR]

Can this guy play safety? I dont see why we need another corner

[DraftBoy]

two 2nd year players, and McGee is a pending FA.

[Nighthawk]

IMO, not a pressing need...we NEED to address other positions.

[THATHURMANATOR]

two 2nd year players, and McGee is a pending FA.
I am more than fine with Leodis,Corner, Mcgee, Youboty.

Can Florence play Safety?

I would rather address another guard, TE, and OLB.

[DBrown77]

I am more than fine with Leodis,Corner, Mcgee, Youboty.

Can Florence play Safety?

I would rather address another guard, TE, and OLB.

and we may, most likely 3rd tier guys. Except for TE as there is not a good enough one available. save TE for the draft

[DraftBoy]

I am more than fine with Leodis,Corner, Mcgee, Youboty.

Can Florence play Safety?

I would rather address another guard, TE, and OLB.

Im glad you are but its apparent the Bills FO is not I guess. Though at this point Id put more stock into your talent eval skills than Brandon and Co.

There was talk of maybe moving him to FS but I dont see it myself. He doesnt have great size or speed. Just average really.

[homeslice5484]

we could still keep greer.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Im glad you are but its apparent the Bills FO is not I guess. Though at this point Id put more stock into your talent eval skills than Brandon and Co.

There was talk of maybe moving him to FS but I dont see it myself. He doesnt have great size or speed. Just average really.

Ok another question. Do you feel he could or would be a better FS than Simpson?

If so I could be ok with it. He could play FS and be insurance at Corner as well.

[DraftBoy]

Ok another question. Do you feel he could or would be a better FS than Simpson?

If so I could be ok with it. He could play FS and be insurance at Corner as well.

Eh, he's got decent cover skills, his tackling skills are sub par. I think he'd be an improvement but probably only because Simpson was that bad, not because he's much better.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Eh, he's got decent cover skills, his tackling skills are sub par. I think he'd be an improvement but probably only because Simpson was that bad, not because he's much better.
an upgrade is an upgrade I guess.

Hey what about TEs in the draft?

[DraftBoy]

an upgrade is an upgrade I guess.

Hey what about TEs in the draft?


Deep and athletic. I can name 7 TE's who can come in and start from Day 1 for us, imo. That's including Pettigrew by the way.

[Buddo]

It's probably a situation where if Greer re-signs, Florence will go back to the Chargers, but if Greer decides to go elsewhere, then Florence may get a bit more $ from the Bills to come to Buffalo (more than he's so far been offered that is).
For all that I like what we do have in the way of Corners, McGee will be a FA next year. Also, we did need the amount we had with Greer, due to the injuries people picked up. We will likely need another decent corner from where we are atm, for this year. Florence or (preferably) Greer, fill that need.
IIRC, isn't Youboty going to become a FA next year also?

[DraftBoy]

It's probably a situation where if Greer re-signs, Florence will go back to the Chargers, but if Greer decides to go elsewhere, then Florence may get a bit more $ from the Bills to come to Buffalo (more than he's so far been offered that is).
For all that I like what we do have in the way of Corners, McGee will be a FA next year. Also, we did need the amount we had with Greer, due to the injuries people picked up. We will likely need another decent corner from where we are atm, for this year. Florence or (preferably) Greer, fill that need.
IIRC, isn't Youboty going to become a FA next year also?

I think so, plus he has never played a full season either. So that leaves us with McGee who is good but at times inconsistent and two 2nd year players.

[Ickybaluky]

I think so, plus he has never played a full season either. So that leaves us with McGee who is good but at times inconsistent and two 2nd year players.

Bill Belichick loves McGee. He has gone out of his way to praise him many times, and always lists him when he talks about preparing for the Bills.

Belichick loves versatile guys, so McGee's return ability appeals to him. He also likes smaller, athletic CB who aren't afraid to tackle. McGee fits the profile of a lot of CB Belichick has coached, like current Patriot Ellis Hobbs or former Jet Ray Mickens.

[DraftBoy]

Bill Belichick loves McGee. He has gone out of his way to praise him many times, and always lists him when he talks about preparing for the Bills.

Belichick loves versatile guys, so McGee's return ability appeals to him. He also likes smaller, athletic CB who aren't afraid to tackle. McGee fits the profile of a lot of CB Belichick has coached, like current Patriot Ellis Hobbs or former Jet Ray Mickens.

My biggest issue with McGee is that one game he looks great, he attacks the ball and is aggressive in coverage and the next week he sits back and looks timid. McGee can go to NE if he wants next off season he has a bad habit of biting on the double move and he's not the type of player who scares me when I see him line up opposite of my team. His tackling though is very good as are his return abilites.

[Ickybaluky]

My biggest issue with McGee is that one game he looks great, he attacks the ball and is aggressive in coverage and the next week he sits back and looks timid. McGee can go to NE if he wants next off season he has a bad habit of biting on the double move and he's not the type of player who scares me when I see him line up opposite of my team. His tackling though is very good as are his return abilites.

I understand what you are saying, but I just thought I would throw that in there. He is one of the players that Belichick gets excited about when he is asked a question. Usually, it is a sign he really admires the guy, and if that guy ever becomes a FA he will go after him. Wes Welker was like that. Jason Taylor was another.

[DraftBoy]

I understand what you are saying, but I just thought I would throw that in there. He is one of the players that Belichick gets excited about when he is asked a question. Usually, it is a sign he really admires the guy, and if that guy ever becomes a FA he will go after him. Wes Welker was like that. Jason Taylor was another.

Oh I know and I see what BB sees him, Im just saying I dont understand the admiration. Hard to argue with a guy who has the recent record that BB does in player evals.

[Ickybaluky]

Oh I know and I see what BB sees him, Im just saying I dont understand the admiration. Hard to argue with a guy who has the recent record that BB does in player evals.

I think he has a soft spot for midget CB with return ability. He has coached a ton of them.

Of course, he let Samuel go. I guess nobody is perfect.

[DraftBoy]

I think he has a soft spot for midget CB with return ability. He has coached a ton of them.

Of course, he let Samuel go. I guess nobody is perfect.

Yea thats the opposite of me. I prefer bigger physical CB's like Rodger-Cro with SD.

[Mahdi]

two 2nd year players, and McGee is a pending FA.
McGee, Mckelvin, Youboty, Corner is a solid quartet of CBs. Best 4 in the AFCE. Florence struggled in Jacksonville.

However if we can swing a deal for Cromartie that would be awesome. He could actually come in and play FS for us.

[DraftBoy]

McGee, Mckelvin, Youboty, Corner is a solid quartet of CBs. Best 4 in the AFCE. Florence struggled in Jacksonville.

However if we can swing a deal for Cromartie that would be awesome. He could actually come in and play FS for us.
I dont see how in any way thats the top 4 CB's in the AFCE.

NYJ has Revis and Sheppard as their top two which blows our starters out of the water.

If we could land Cro and move him to FS, I would actually praise OBD for a good move for once.

[Mahdi]

Oh I know and I see what BB sees him, Im just saying I dont understand the admiration. Hard to argue with a guy who has the recent record that BB does in player evals.
You dont see the admiration. McGee covers every team's top WR every game and does it without a pass rush. He returns, he is top 5 in terms of a tackling CB in the league and I have never heard a negative thing come from him. Team player. Too bad we dont have more McGees on the team.

[Mahdi]

I dont see how in any way thats the top 4 CB's in the AFCE.

NYJ has Revis and Sheppard as their top two which blows our starters out of the water.

If we could land Cro and move him to FS, I would actually praise OBD for a good move for once.
Shepp has been riding the bench for 2 seasons. McGee is not far from Revis. Revis had a real defense playing in front of him. McGee had enough time covering WRs to strike up conversation. Mckelvin is going to be a special player, he showed us glimpses of that in limited time last season.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Yeah I wasn't thinking Sheppard was so special. Scott of course.

[DraftBoy]

Mcgee also has the nickname burnt toast for a reason he is widely inconsistent and has an issue biting on the double move.

I don't really care about his return ability because we can replace that.

He may cover other teams top Wrs but he doesn't shut them down. He is a #2 CB on most teams but on ours he"s a #1.

As for Lito Sheppard he started all 11 games he played in 07 and only this year did he move to nickle back.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

The problem with Lito while a good corner, he is always injured. That's why he fell out of favor in Philly, just not that tough.

[Mahdi]

Mcgee also has the nickname burnt toast for a reason he is widely inconsistent and has an issue biting on the double move.

I don't really care about his return ability because we can replace that.

He may cover other teams top Wrs but he doesn't shut them down. He is a #2 CB on most teams but on ours he"s a #1.

As for Lito Sheppard he started all 11 games he played in 07 and only this year did he move to nickle back.
McGee has never had the advantage of a real pass rush. Schobel benefited from the coverage that McGee provided with coverage sacks. Put McGee in Giant blue and see if he is a #1 or not. The name burnt toast is given to any CB who plays without a real DL.

O and for all those arguing Greer is better than McGee...I guess the league doesn't agree cuz he is having trouble finding people value him as much as he believes. His weaknesses are known league wide.

[DraftBoy]

McGee has never had the advantage of a real pass rush. Schobel benefited from the coverage that McGee provided with coverage sacks. Put McGee in Giant blue and see if he is a #1 or not. The name burnt toast is given to any CB who plays without a real DL.

O and for all those arguing Greer is better than McGee...I guess the league doesn't agree cuz he is having trouble finding people value him as much as he believes. His weaknesses are known league wide.

You always use pass rush as the excuse. McGee does not shut anybody down and its not just because our pass rush isnt where it needs to be. Top CB's shut down opposing players top WR's from making plays period. McGee has never and will never be that guy.

[acehole]

and we may, most likely 3rd tier guys. Except for TE as there is not a good enough one available. save TE for the draft

I myself am underwhelmed.

[Ickybaluky]

O and for all those arguing Greer is better than McGee...I guess the league doesn't agree cuz he is having trouble finding people value him as much as he believes. His weaknesses are known league wide.

Greer is visiting Cleveland today and New Orleans tomorrow, according to former Bills Matt Bowen (http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/03/sources-greer-to-visit-browns-saints/). He has already visited Detroit and Tampa. I think a lot of teams have interest in him and he is going to get a good contract, but he is making sure he knows all his options first. that makes me think he is smart.

I agree McGee is a good player, though. I think size is over-rated in CB. It helps in press coverage, but other than that I'd rather have a smaller, quicker guy. I think it is a matter of scheme.

[justasportsfan]

Hard to distinguish how good or bad our cb's are when you have no pass rush.

We were ranked at 13th vs. pass and rush was 22nd.

Pass ATT 492 rush ATT 455 .

By those nos. we can say our pass D was slightly above average without any pass rush.

[Mahdi]

You always use pass rush as the excuse. McGee does not shut anybody down and its not just because our pass rush isnt where it needs to be. Top CB's shut down opposing players top WR's from making plays period. McGee has never and will never be that guy.
Pass rush and pass coverage are directly related. If you are in coverage for too long it doesn't matter who you are you will give up a completion.

[DraftBoy]

Since neither one of us can show what the average amount of time the QB holds the ball due to "our lack of pass rush" I can't go with your point. I don't remember anybody sitting back there for a long time on any consistent basis.

[Mahdi]

Since neither one of us can show what the average amount of time the QB holds the ball due to "our lack of pass rush" I can't go with your point. I don't remember anybody sitting back there for a long time on any consistent basis.
Are you kidding? QBs were sitting back there ALL day.... who are you suggesting was putting pressure on them in the first place... C'mon DB.

[DraftBoy]

Are you kidding? QBs were sitting back there ALL day.... who are you suggesting was putting pressure on them in the first place... C'mon DB.

Im not suggesting anything, Im saying that because you can't prove your point and I can't disprove it, its mute because its not a measureable one. Its all based on your or mine perception. Nobody said we were getting pressure on the QB but we sure as hell got beat a good bit on short and intermediate routes too which has little to do with pass rush since those routes take less than 3 seconds on average to develop.

[Mahdi]

Im not suggesting anything, Im saying that because you can't prove your point and I can't disprove it, its mute because its not a measureable one. Its all based on your or mine perception. Nobody said we were getting pressure on the QB but we sure as hell got beat a good bit on short and intermediate routes too which has little to do with pass rush since those routes take less than 3 seconds on average to develop.
Great Point!. We did get beat a lot on short and intermediate routes. Why is that? Notice how our CBs always give up cushion on the WRs and always play safe.... that is a by-product of not having a pass rush to rely on. Fewell knows that his DL wont generate a pass rush so he tells the CBs to play off. If our CBs played press to avoid those short throws then once the receiver beats the jam since the DL isn't getting to the QB in time, it would result in a big play for the opposing offense.

To play press man and limit the short passing game you MUST have a pass rush, otherwise you have to play it safe and let your D get bled but not beat for a big one. And that's exactly what the Bills D did all year and I dont blame Fewell. He really had no choice.

[yordad]

Mahdi is right, IMO.