How great would Jared Cook look in a Bills uni now?

[X-Era]

You add a pass receiving threat at TE, we have a very dynamic offense.

BTW, Im not hung up on Cook, I think Beckum, Ingram, maybe Nelson can add that receiving dimension.

MY second favorite (for just the receiving part) is Beckum.

I like Pettigrew a lot, I like Coffman. But both are more all around TE's. I really want the receiving threat.

[DraftBoy]

Eh, we need complete players not 1 dimensional ones. I have the same issue with Cook I do with Johnson, Brown and Orakpo.

[Mahdi]

Eh, we need complete players not 1 dimensional ones. I have the same issue with Cook I do with Johnson, Brown and Orakpo.
Every team needs to have all-around players. Players that are solid in several aspects of their game. But you also need a few players that are great or spectacular at at least one thing so you can take advantage of it and use it to create match up problems. The Bills have a ton of all-around players and are really lacking in the "Great" department.

Adding players like Cook or Nelson or Orakpo or Brown or Johnson would make us a complete team. It's like we have all the food ready but there's no salt or spices on it.

[X-Era]

Every team needs to have all-around players. Players that are solid in several aspects of their game. But you also need a few players that are great or spectacular at at least one thing so you can take advantage of it and use it to create match up problems. The Bills have a ton of all-around players and are really lacking in the "Great" department.

Adding players like Cook or Nelson or Orakpo or Brown or Johnson would make us a complete team. It's like we have all the food ready but there's no salt or spices on it.

It looks like we may need to move up from 2, maybe even above 20 if we want him!

Right now that seems like too much to get him, but maybe he continues to rise

http://www.middletownjournal.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/pro/2009/03/08/ddn030909spbigcweb.html

[DraftBoy]

Every team needs to have all-around players. Players that are solid in several aspects of their game. But you also need a few players that are great or spectacular at at least one thing so you can take advantage of it and use it to create match up problems. The Bills have a ton of all-around players and are really lacking in the "Great" department.

Adding players like Cook or Nelson or Orakpo or Brown or Johnson would make us a complete team. It's like we have all the food ready but there's no salt or spices on it.

I agree that you need those types of players but those are players you add later when your team just needs to get over that hump. We are not close to that right now. But we also disagree there on the current talent level of this team.

Nelson is an accomplished blocker its not his fortay but he is far better technique wise than Cook, who when he throws his next block it will be his first.

[Mahdi]

I agree that you need those types of players but those are players you add later when your team just needs to get over that hump. We are not close to that right now. But we also disagree there on the current talent level of this team.

Nelson is an accomplished blocker its not his fortay but he is far better technique wise than Cook, who when he throws his next block it will be his first.
Whether a TE is a good blocker or not coming out of college I think has more to do with the way they are used on their college teams than with their actual ability to block. Yes, some have more of a blocking attitude but a lot of TEs known for being receiving TEs came into the NFL and became adequate to good blockers. Winslow being an example, Olsen, Keller has become an every down guy also.

Blocking can be coached up... you can't coach talent though.

[DraftBoy]

Whether a TE is a good blocker or not coming out of college I think has more to do with the way they are used on their college teams than with their actual ability to block. Yes, some have more of a blocking attitude but a lot of TEs known for being receiving TEs came into the NFL and became adequate to good blockers. Winslow being an example, Olsen, Keller has become an every down guy also.

Blocking can be coached up... you can't coach talent though.

All of those guys blocked in college, Cook did not. Your comparisons are not accurate to Cook. Olsen and Keller particularly.

Also being known as a receiving TE does not mean you cannot block or don't block. Cook is a receiving TE who struggles as a blocker, Winslow was a receiving TE who was passable as a blocker. Not a great blocker but he knew what to do, his assignment and he was technically sound unlike Cook.

[Mahdi]

All of those guys blocked in college, Cook did not. Your comparisons are not accurate to Cook. Olsen and Keller particularly.

Also being known as a receiving TE does not mean you cannot block or don't block. Cook is a receiving TE who struggles as a blocker, Winslow was a receiving TE who was passable as a blocker. Not a great blocker but he knew what to do, his assignment and he was technically sound unlike Cook.
I really don't think it is possible to play the TE position without blocking. I have read that Cook is not a great blocker, but I have also read that he has potential and puts in the effort.

Either way, after one training camp with an NFL team he will learn.

[TigerJ]

Chris Brown thinks the same thing you do, Mahdi. He interviewd Cook at the Combine and Cook said he recognized he'd have to learn to block in the NFL.

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=171537

[DraftBoy]

I really don't think it is possible to play the TE position without blocking. I have read that Cook is not a great blocker, but I have also read that he has potential and puts in the effort.

Either way, after one training camp with an NFL team he will learn.


Do you really think blocking is that simple that a Training camp is going to tell him all he needs to know?

Cook was flexed out most of last season at South Carolina especially after McKinnley went down specifically so that he could get a clean release off the line which TE's in the normal 3 point stance don't always get.

[X-Era]

All of those guys blocked in college, Cook did not. Your comparisons are not accurate to Cook. Olsen and Keller particularly.

Also being known as a receiving TE does not mean you cannot block or don't block. Cook is a receiving TE who struggles as a blocker, Winslow was a receiving TE who was passable as a blocker. Not a great blocker but he knew what to do, his assignment and he was technically sound unlike Cook.

Hes one of the strongest TE's at the combine, makes me wonder if he just needs technique coaching.

[DraftBoy]

Hes one of the strongest TE's at the combine, makes me wonder if he just needs technique coaching.

Leif Larsen was the strongest DT at the combine when we drafted him. That means absolutely nothing to me as far as blocking goes. You dont have to be stronger to be a good blocker.

[X-Era]

Leif Larsen was the strongest DT at the combine when we drafted him. That means absolutely nothing to me as far as blocking goes. You dont have to be stronger to be a good blocker.

Leif Larsen was never considered the top DT or even the 3rd or 4th best in that draft.

Cook isnt just a strong guy, he has very very good receiving skills IMO.

I think Beckum has even more upside and he posted the strongest bench. But I think Cook is the #2 TE as of right now and due to the off the field stuff, he could even end up #1.

[DraftBoy]

Leif Larsen was never considered the top DT or even the 3rd or 4th best in that draft.

Cook isnt just a strong guy, he has very very good receiving skills IMO.

I think Beckum has even more upside and he posted the strongest bench. But I think Cook is the #2 TE as of right now and due to the off the field stuff, he could even end up #1.

I have it;
1. Nelson
2. Pettigrew
3. Coffman
4. Cook
5. Casey
6. Ingram
7. Beckum

[X-Era]

I have it;
1. Nelson
2. Pettigrew
3. Coffman
4. Cook
5. Casey
6. Ingram
7. Beckum

I know how you have it, Ive seen it before.. I just dont agree with it

[DraftBoy]

I know how you have it, Ive seen it before.. I just dont agree with it

So I shouldnt post it anymore simply because you don't agree with it?

You know my philosophy on draft prospects if they guy has a hole in a key aspect of what his position does, he's going to get graded lower. To over look Cook's inability to block or even have the fundamentals down of blocking (hand placement, foot work, and leverage) his lack of production despite being South Carolina's top target, his inexperience at TE (was converted from WR in 2006) just because the guy measures well and runs fast doesnt make any sense to me. Show me him doing his job consistently on the field and then Ill move him up until then, his bust potential is way too high. The one thing I will say about Jared is that he's a great guy with great character. Ive met him before as he played at rival HS to my own. Really down to earth and cool guy, but that only gets you so far. Im sorry but I refused to be so enamored with 40's, heights, and weights to ignore TD's, YPC, pancakes, and experience.

[X-Era]

So I shouldnt post it anymore simply because you don't agree with it?

You know my philosophy on draft prospects if they guy has a hole in a key aspect of what his position does, he's going to get graded lower. To over look Cook's inability to block or even have the fundamentals down of blocking (hand placement, foot work, and leverage) his lack of production despite being South Carolina's top target, his inexperience at TE (was converted from WR in 2006) just because the guy measures well and runs fast doesnt make any sense to me. Show me him doing his job consistently on the field and then Ill move him up until then, his bust potential is way too high. The one thing I will say about Jared is that he's a great guy with great character. Ive met him before as he played at rival HS to my own. Really down to earth and cool guy, but that only gets you so far. Im sorry but I refused to be so enamored with 40's, heights, and weights to ignore TD's, YPC, pancakes, and experience.


No, its a free board. If you like I can bring my TE list up each time we discuss TE's as well.

Maybe you could review his yardage vs the rest of his team mates.

Cook has done more than Nelson has if you look at the whole picture which includes the conference they play in, etc...

Look, I have a feeling that the NFL will follow my list much closer come draft day than yours. Just a hunch.

[DraftBoy]

Maybe you could review his yardage vs the rest of his team mates.

Cook has done more than Nelson has if you look at the whole picture which includes the conference they play in, etc...

Look, I have a feeling that the NFL will follow my list much closer come draft day than yours. Just a hunch.

Why because playing on a crappy ass team he should of stood out but in fact didnt? That's not a real flattering thing in his defense.

How has Cook done more than Nelson exactly? Can you name another receiving threat on Southern Miss without looking it up? No Nelson was the main target, while Cook had an excellent WR outside of him in Kenny McKinnley. Also Nelson was a key part in helping So. Miss RB Damion Fletcher have three consecutive 1000 yd rushing seasons.

Here are some numbers for you to think about;
Nelson-4.08 Catches Per Game
Cook-2.55

We don't need a 2.5 catch TE a game we have that already in Fine. We need a guy who can exploit the seem, make tough catches, and block well. We don't need Vernon Davis.

If I honestly thought that the NFL following your list on draft day made the slightest bit of difference Id hand in my BZ badge now, but considering that where a guy gets picked means nothing compared to how they preform, Nelson could fall to Round 7 and I still like him as a better pro prospect than Cook. Who cares where a guy gets picked exactly? What does that prove?

[X-Era]

Why because playing on a crappy ass team he should of stood out but in fact didnt? That's not a real flattering thing in his defense.

How has Cook done more than Nelson exactly? Can you name another receiving threat on Southern Miss without looking it up? No Nelson was the main target, while Cook had an excellent WR outside of him in Kenny McKinnley. Also Nelson was a key part in helping So. Miss RB Damion Fletcher have three consecutive 1000 yd rushing seasons.

Here are some numbers for you to think about;
Nelson-4.08 Catches Per Game
Cook-2.55

We don't need a 2.5 catch TE a game we have that already in Fine. We need a guy who can exploit the seem, make tough catches, and block well. We don't need Vernon Davis.

If I honestly thought that the NFL following your list on draft day made the slightest bit of difference Id hand in my BZ badge now, but considering that where a guy gets picked means nothing compared to how they preform, Nelson could fall to Round 7 and I still like him as a better pro prospect than Cook. Who cares where a guy gets picked exactly? What does that prove?

Just for reference:

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showpost.php?p=2827168&postcount=23

You also could take a look at who had better YPC in 08.

The main thing Nelson has is consistency across his years.

Cook also plays in a much stronger conference as I said.

My point about what NFL teams do, is that they will do what they will do and it really doesn't matter much at all how any fan on a fan board rates these guys.

I watched Cook a lot. I like his game alot. Just that easy.

I also think that guys Like Ingram, and Beckum could be very good too.

[DraftBoy]

Just for reference:

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showpost.php?p=2827168&postcount=23

You also could take a look at who had better YPC in 08.

The main thing Nelson has is consistency across his years.

Cook also plays in a much stronger conference as I said.

My point about what NFL teams do, is that they will do what they will do and it really doesn't matter much at all how any fan on a fan board rates these guys.

I watched Cook a lot. I like his game alot. Just that easy.

I also think that guys Like Ingram, and Beckum could be very good too.

Yes I got you like Cook, but you haven't given an argument as to why you rate him higher except he measures out better. You conceed Nelson is more consistent, you conceed Cook is not a good blocker. Your main points are that he runs real fast, he's big, and he has a nice YPC, which in the NFL will be much harder to do given the change in speed between the NFL and SEC ball and don't talk about him playing in the SEC like that's some big deal. The SEC was down last season and even then the argument that conference disparity actually matters has proven wrong time and time again. Players succeed because they are good not because they went to a BCS school.

Ive seen a lot of Cook too, Im not impressed. He makes 1 big catch every couple of game, sorry that doesnt get me excited.

[X-Era]

Yes I got you like Cook, but you haven't given an argument as to why you rate him higher except he measures out better. You conceed Nelson is more consistent, you conceed Cook is not a good blocker. Your main points are that he runs real fast, he's big, and he has a nice YPC, which in the NFL will be much harder to do given the change in speed between the NFL and SEC ball and don't talk about him playing in the SEC like that's some big deal. The SEC was down last season and even then the argument that conference disparity actually matters has proven wrong time and time again. Players succeed because they are good not because they went to a BCS school.

Ive seen a lot of Cook too, Im not impressed. He makes 1 big catch every couple of game, sorry that doesnt get me excited.

I think its worthy to note that I have repeatedly said that I like several other guys too.

I will help form better details of why I like him:

I like his size/speed combo
I like the way he catches the ball and what he does with it when its in his hands
I like how he gets separation

But most of all, I have a gut feel that he could be really good. Its an opinion based solely on a feeling. You wont read it in a stat sheet, in the ****'s play by plays, or anywhere else. Its just a feel.

And, in my opinion, its sometimes a major part of being a fan.

Yep, I like him, yep I think hes the 2nd best Ive seen, but no I wont go on ad naseum discussing the pro and cons of their games.

Afterall, the Bills will make the decision, hes ranked right around as the #2 TE and I think that very much makes him relevant to talk about as potentially being a Bill.

[DraftBoy]

I think its worthy to note that I have repeatedly said that I like several other guys too.

I will help form better details of why I like him:

I like his size/speed combo
I like the way he catches the ball and what he does with it when its in his hands
I like how he gets separation

But most of all, I have a gut feel that he could be really good. Its an opinion based solely on a feeling. You wont read it in a stat sheet, in the ****'s play by plays, or anywhere else. Its just a feel.

And, in my opinion, its sometimes a major part of being a fan.

Yep, I like him, yep I think hes the 2nd best Ive seen, but no I wont go on ad naseum discussing the pro and cons of their games.

Afterall, the Bills will make the decision, hes ranked right around as the #2 TE and I think that very much makes him relevant to talk about as potentially being a Bill.

Yea we know you like other guys but this thread is about Cook, is it not?

Its not going on ad naseum about pros and cons, because you haven't done that, I have. Your opinion based mostly off measureables and a feeling. Which is fine, but I dont like feelings. They can't be measured and they can't be debated so I dont see how they fit in. Im very analytical, and that's how most scouts are. I can't argue your feeling or whatever it is you want to call it, because it is essentially nothing to anybody else except for you. I like Cook I think he's a great 3rd Round TE before that though Id pass all day long. His bust potential is way too high.

[X-Era]

Yea we know you like other guys but this thread is about Cook, is it not?

Its not going on ad naseum about pros and cons, because you haven't done that, I have. Your opinion based mostly off measureables and a feeling. Which is fine, but I dont like feelings. They can't be measured and they can't be debated so I dont see how they fit in. Im very analytical, and that's how most scouts are. I can't argue your feeling or whatever it is you want to call it, because it is essentially nothing to anybody else except for you. I like Cook I think he's a great 3rd Round TE before that though Id pass all day long. His bust potential is way too high.

OK.

And just as much as Im able to come and talk about possible Bill draftees based on nothing more than feeling, you can respond to every single posters opinions on the draft.

[DraftBoy]

OK.

And just as much as Im able to come and talk about possible Bill draftees based on nothing more than feeling, you can respond to every single posters opinions on the draft.

What exactly are you trying to say?

Nobody is censoring your viewpoint or discounting it, but saying I got a feeling about guy X doesn't really tell anybody anything. I have a feeling about a lot of guys unfortunately tape doesnt support that feeling so its quickly forgotten.

I dont do feelings, they aren't logical, they aren't supported by evidence and they are usually wrong. You go with your feeling which is perfectly fine. It doesnt make you any less of a poster.

[X-Era]

What exactly are you trying to say?

Nobody is censoring your viewpoint or discounting it, but saying I got a feeling about guy X doesn't really tell anybody anything. I have a feeling about a lot of guys unfortunately tape doesnt support that feeling so its quickly forgotten.

I dont do feelings, they aren't logical, they aren't supported by evidence and they are usually wrong. You go with your feeling which is perfectly fine. It doesnt make you any less of a poster.

Maybe theres room for you to do what you do "do" and as much room for me to post what I "feel"

How about if Im allowed to simply think what I think and post it without having to defend it or be told it doesnt fit the numbers. I say that without any sort of anger, but it does seem pretty ridiculous dont you think.

Afterall, we are talking about people who we dont even know, who could very well end up being nothings to the NFL, which is a sports that we simply like to follow, with other people we dont know, on a fan board on the internet, mostly for the fun of it.

But thats just it... going back and forth like this over some TE who may or may not ever be drafted by the Bills isnt seeming like much fun.

[DraftBoy]

Maybe theres room for you to do what you do "do" and as much room for me to post what I "feel"

How about if Im allowed to simply think what I think and post it without having to defend it or be told it doesnt fit the numbers. I say that without any sort of anger, but it does seem pretty ridiculous dont you think.

Afterall, we are talking about people who we dont even know, who could very well end up being nothings to the NFL, which is a sports that we simply like to follow, with other people we dont know, on a fan board on the internet, mostly for the fun of it.

But thats just it... going back and forth like this over some TE who may or may not ever be drafted by the Bills isnt seeming like much fun.

You want to post an opinion on a player but yet not defend that opinion?? That doesnt make any sense at all. If you have an opinion on a guy and I disagree with it then you better be prepared to defend that opinion. I do the same when my opinion disagrees with other posters. This board is meant for discussion and debate, Im sorry if you don't like your opinion being called into question but everybody elses is called into question numerous times and will be its what the board is for.

Im having a blast discussing Cook, Im sorry you are not.

[X-Era]

You want to post an opinion on a player but yet not defend that opinion?? That doesnt make any sense at all. If you have an opinion on a guy and I disagree with it then you better be prepared to defend that opinion. I do the same when my opinion disagrees with other posters. This board is meant for discussion and debate, Im sorry if you don't like your opinion being called into question but everybody elses is called into question numerous times and will be its what the board is for.

Im having a blast discussing Cook, Im sorry you are not.
Actually, I can post an opinion with little or no facts at all... thats part of the ride here. Its still an opinion and will be given its just due based on what amount of credence the reader chooses to give it. If you choose to discard it because your research says something else, so be it.

But you and I both know that sometimes in the NFL those that look like they cant... do.

There is no physical reason that Cook cant learn to block, he may never become a blocker, but there is no physical reason he cant.

TE's are a breed thats hard to gauge at times. They arent as fast as WR's, and they arent as good as OL at blocking.

And at that point, and on this offense, I would prefer a guy who can catch and open another reliable option than a guy who can, at best, kind of block. Lets face it, any TE going one on one against Richard Seymour will lose. And if hes going to be part of a double team on Richard (for example), I will take that match up with Jared. If he goes one on one with a LBer, I think he may do OK considering his size/strength/speed. He needs technique work, I agree. But to say that he simply will never be a good blocker just doesnt seem realistic. He could learn. Will he? Who the hell knows.

By the way, Smelley just plain stinks. Davis was much much better. I wouldnt fault Cook to much for those numbers. If anything, I think it helps his cause. He never had a decent QB throwing to him and still managed to do decent.

[Mahdi]

So I shouldnt post it anymore simply because you don't agree with it?

You know my philosophy on draft prospects if they guy has a hole in a key aspect of what his position does, he's going to get graded lower. To over look Cook's inability to block or even have the fundamentals down of blocking (hand placement, foot work, and leverage) his lack of production despite being South Carolina's top target, his inexperience at TE (was converted from WR in 2006) just because the guy measures well and runs fast doesnt make any sense to me. Show me him doing his job consistently on the field and then Ill move him up until then, his bust potential is way too high. The one thing I will say about Jared is that he's a great guy with great character. Ive met him before as he played at rival HS to my own. Really down to earth and cool guy, but that only gets you so far. Im sorry but I refused to be so enamored with 40's, heights, and weights to ignore TD's, YPC, pancakes, and experience.
The way I see it.... If the Bills can teach an undrafted TE to become a pro-bowl LT, they can probably improve a TE's blocking, especially one with as much raw skill and talent as Cook. You get a guy like Coffman, great, he can do everything well. Cook has a much higher ceiling and ability to become elite.

[DraftBoy]

The way I see it.... If the Bills can teach an undrafted TE to become a pro-bowl LT, they can probably improve a TE's blocking, especially one with as much raw skill and talent as Cook. You get a guy like Coffman, great, he can do everything well. Cook has a much higher ceiling and ability to become elite.

I never said he couldnt be taught, but for everybody who thinks this team is a TE away from having a great offense then you shouldnt want Cook. He is too raw to help this team next season. He'll have a big play or two Im sure because he has good ability but he won't be a consistent contributor. You said it yourself he is very raw. Now you and I disagree on where the talent level of the team is. You think they are better than I do, correct? So if you think they are closer to a being a Playoff team and need a TE to put the offense over the hump shouldn't you want the more complete and NFL ready guy and not the raw somewhat of a project pick?

[LifetimeBillsFan]

I think everyone in this discussion is ignoring what I consider to be the most important factor in determining which one of these TEs will end up in a Bills uni: who is still going to be on the board in Round 2 when the Bills pick?

Whether Nelson or Cook would look better in a Bills uni may be a moot point by that time because other teams may have already taken them. Similarly, if Mack (unlikely) or Ungar somehow is still on the board, it may not matter whether Nelson or Cook are still available as well.

There are seven TEs and six players at the C/OG position who have the potential to help the Bills be a better team, if not this year, then next. I would like to see the Bills get the best combination of players at those two positions that they can possibly get--and that is going to be greatly influenced by what moves the Bills make or don't make (such as making a tradedown out of the 11th pick) and what other teams do before the Bills are on the board for the second time.

Because there is no way of knowing which players will still be on the board when the Bills are ready to make that pick, I don't think that the Bills or their fans should "fall in love" with any particular player. I think it is better to try to evaluate them all and try to consider which combination of talents will be able to help the team the most, given its needs. Well, at least that's my approach.

Under the right circumstances, I'd like to see Nelson in a Bills uni. I'd also be happy to see Cook in a Bills uni if things go differently. Depending on what happens, I'd also be quite delighted to see Beckum or Ingram or Coffman or Pettigrew or Casey. To me, it all depends on who else they can get to shore up the interior of their offensive line and their pass rush as well.

It really doesn't matter who we want to see in a Bills uni more. It's who is going to still be on the board that matters most.