My Monday FA Open Thread

[patmoran2006]

Wont be posting a lot today, I have a lot of work to catch up at my "regular ole' job". Thanks for the props lately from nearly everybody, and for the few who never have anything nice to say; let me just state that I am not nor have I EVER claimed to be any kind of a "NFL Insider". Im a former full-time and current part-time writer for Scout.com and a couple other smaller projects. I do have a lot of friends in the media, and a couple of credible contacts and from time to time I'm able to gather some information that's reliable and I pass it along. THis happened to be the case over the past 10 or so days. So if anyone thinks that I conduct myself like I'm Peter King or Adam Schefter: I assure I know I'm not. My gig is writing articles and from time to time I'm able to break a little news in the process.

Anyway:

8:56am: Roy Williams is still looking for a job at SS and would rather play in a 4-3 defense so he can play closer to the line, per various reports. While a Williams role at SS would help a Buffalo run defense and move Whitner fulltime to FS, I really don't see it happening. I think Buffalo's free agency plan from now to the draft is pretty clear-cut, and in no particular order, going by the people they've brought in, they're hoping to address these areas now.

1) Linebacker
2) Left Guard
3) Insurance at Running Back.

Considering they already got the most talented WR on the market, an upgrade at center and an upgrade at Backup QB (Anything is an upgrade over Losman)-- if they could fill those holes that would be a tremendous offseason.

Draft-wise.. Who knows. Alot of these tweener DE/OLB's, I'm not sure how they fit into this Bills defense. If wet get a OLB like I expect in FA, I would think we'd be looking to draft a pure DE who can pass rush. Maybe that comes with the 11th pick, but maybe not. I'm not a fan of it right now, but maybe the team does take Pettigrew with the 11th pick.

[patmoran2006]

9:02am: I did talk to Tim Graham over the weekend. I asked him to look a little further into Marshawn Lynch, as I was thinking that these hosts of RB's they've had visiting may be indication the team may be looking to move either he or Jackson.

Graham told me that he spoke to a higher up with the Bills and that moving Lynch this year is not in their plans in any fashion.

[mybills]

and they shouldn't move Lynch this year, so good!

[venis2k1]

YAY!!! Lynch is our best player, trading him would be like 2 steps forward, 5 steps back.

[X-Era]

Good!

I want to see us give him a chance to grow up and straighten himself out.

Id love to hear if they are currently trying to, or are working on offering a contract to someone.

I really think we will round out a few spots quickly now that we know how much we have left to spend.

[Saratoga Slim]

I don't think the type of RBs we've been bringing in are guys that you look to as replacements for your franchise RB. They're guys that you look to to fill in for a few weeks in case your franchise guy gets his ass suspended. I highly doubt there's a serious plan to trade Lynch.

[patmoran2006]

Well there is little doubt Lynch is gonna earn a suspension, so it's good to see the Bills being proactive to find a RB to backup Jackson during his absence.

[Coach Sal]

Wont be posting a lot today, I have a lot of work to catch up at my "regular ole' job". Thanks for the props lately from nearly everybody, and for the few who never have anything nice to say; let me just state that I am not nor have I EVER claimed to be any kind of a "NFL Insider". Im a former full-time and current part-time writer for Scout.com and a couple other smaller projects. I do have a lot of friends in the media, and a couple of credible contacts and from time to time I'm able to gather some information that's reliable and I pass it along. THis happened to be the case over the past 10 or so days. So if anyone thinks that I conduct myself like I'm Peter King or Adam Schefter: I assure I know I'm not. My gig is writing articles and from time to time I'm able to break a little news in the process.

No need to qualify what it is you do or don't do, Pat.

You do a great job and have brought a ton of valuable info to Bills fans. If people don't recognize that, that's their problem, not yours.

It's sometimes hard for people like us to be taken seriously simply because Internet media is so clouded with so many others who give this form of media a bad reputation. All someone needs is an electrical outlet and keyboard and they can put whatever they want out there.

So, we have to work even harder than people in the mainstream print, TV, and radio sports media world to get our stories out there.

You do a great job of getting good info out to Bills fans, which is why we're all here in the first place.

Keep up the great work. I'll be peeking in today from time-to-time to see if you have anything interesting.

[patmoran2006]

9:15am: This is not a report but an opinion based on common sense. I think there's little doubt the Bills are taking a DE early in the draft. Does anyone find it interesting that Jason Babin was brought in for a visit? This can't be good news for Kelsay. They're the same type of player, and Babin is obviously a lot cheaper.

Don't forget, the Bills are in negotiations to extend Jason Peters, and I would think they want to lock up Fred Jackson long term.

If they're still going to be active with FA as Russ Brandon claims, that cap room is going to go quickly. Maybe the Bills are looking to unload a bigger salary and Kelsay could fit the bill.

[homeslice5484]

what was all that news about cutler? I know it prob will never happen but id take him over edwards anyday. Especially with edwards being so gunshy.

[clumping platelets]

Kelsay for Waters :nod:

[Chewytie]

Kelsay for Waters :nod:
Yes. YES!

[Saratoga Slim]

what was all that news about cutler? I know it prob will never happen but id take him over edwards anyday. Especially with edwards being so gunshy.

Cutler is not going anywhere. And neither is Edwards--for this season at minimum.

[Saratoga Slim]

Wont be posting a lot today, I have a lot of work to catch up at my "regular ole' job". Thanks for the props lately from nearly everybody, and for the few who never have anything nice to say; let me just state that I am not nor have I EVER claimed to be any kind of a "NFL Insider". Im a former full-time and current part-time writer for Scout.com and a couple other smaller projects. I do have a lot of friends in the media, and a couple of credible contacts and from time to time I'm able to gather some information that's reliable and I pass it along. THis happened to be the case over the past 10 or so days. So if anyone thinks that I conduct myself like I'm Peter King or Adam Schefter: I assure I know I'm not. My gig is writing articles and from time to time I'm able to break a little news in the process.

Anyway:

8:56am: Roy Williams is still looking for a job at SS and would rather play in a 4-3 defense so he can play closer to the line, per various reports. While a Williams role at SS would help a Buffalo run defense and move Whitner fulltime to FS, I really don't see it happening. I think Buffalo's free agency plan from now to the draft is pretty clear-cut, and in no particular order, going by the people they've brought in, they're hoping to address these areas now.

1) Linebacker
2) Left Guard
3) Insurance at Running Back.

Considering they already got the most talented WR on the market, an upgrade at center and an upgrade at Backup QB (Anything is an upgrade over Losman)-- if they could fill those holes that would be a tremendous offseason.

Draft-wise.. Who knows. Alot of these tweener DE/OLB's, I'm not sure how they fit into this Bills defense. If wet get a OLB like I expect in FA, I would think we'd be looking to draft a pure DE who can pass rush. Maybe that comes with the 11th pick, but maybe not. I'm not a fan of it right now, but maybe the team does take Pettigrew with the 11th pick.


I must have missed this, but do we have confirmation that Hangartner is our new C? I wasn't ready to cross "C" off as a need. My impression was that Hangartner has played both C & G, thus I wasn't really clear what our plans were for him.

[Michael82]

Kelsay for Waters :nod:
HELL YEAH! I would do it in a heart beat and would even toss in a late round pick if I needed to.

[Coach Sal]

I must have missed this, but do we have confirmation that Hangartner is our new C? I wasn't ready to cross "C" off as a need. My impression was that Hangartner has played both C & G, thus I wasn't really clear what our plans were for him.

He pretty much confirmed he's going to play center, and that's where he's most comfortable.

Plus, considering we're losing both centers from last year, I'm sure the first priority was C over G.

Unless a guy like Mack or Unger is there in round 2 and we grab him - AND he can play right away - I can't imagine Hangartner lining up at Guard opening weekend.

[Saratoga Slim]

He pretty much confirmed he's going to play center, and that's where he's most comfortable.

Plus, considering we're losing both centers from last year, I'm sure the first priority was C over G.

Unless a guy like Mack or Unger is there in round 2 and we grab him - AND he can play right away - I can't imagine Hangartner lining up at Guard opening weekend.

My guess is that Mack is gone, but Unger is there. I wouldn't be opposed to that pick even with Hangartner on the roster. Hangartner's versatility will make him useful even if he's eventually supplanted at C.

[jimbohastle51]

i wouldnt be surprised at all if deshaun foster was signed by the end of the day or tomorrow. he was the other RB targeted besides kevin jones, and now that jones has signed they can wrap foster up. i havnt seen a single other visit besides buffalo for foster so i am sure he will be a cheap insurance policy with decent upside if he is really needed for a 4 game span. also i wouldnt be surprised if June is brought in as well. now that they have signed T.O. they will try to assemble the best team around him to try to make a run to the playoffs so i would think june would be the best fit for our D unless they choose peterson but i think it will be one of those 2. i also think that if we do not trade for waters (which i think is a long shot now that cassel is in KC and they need to protect there 14 million dollar QB), kendall simmons will be our guy. he is coming off a achilles injury so he will be reasonably cheap with alot of upside and can compete with chambers at LG which is obviously what they want. also remember they arlready went as far as to give simmons a physical and they wouldnt do that unless they were seriously considering signing him.

[alohabillsfan]

Very little chance of trading Kelsay due to the obviously grossly overpaid contract... He would have to agree to a new contract that cuts his pay to that of a burger flipper.

[TigerJ]

9:15am: This is not a report but an opinion based on common sense. I think there's little doubt the Bills are taking a DE early in the draft. Does anyone find it interesting that Jason Babin was brought in for a visit? This can't be good news for Kelsay. They're the same type of player, and Babin is obviously a lot cheaper.

Don't forget, the Bills are in negotiations to extend Jason Peters, and I would think they want to lock up Fred Jackson long term.

If they're still going to be active with FA as Russ Brandon claims, that cap room is going to go quickly. Maybe the Bills are looking to unload a bigger salary and Kelsay could fit the bill.
Of all the name players on the defensive line, I agree Kelsay is the most vulnerable. It would not surprise me in the least to see the Bills dump Kelsay. He just doesn't make enough big plays to justify his salary.

[TigerJ]

I must have missed this, but do we have confirmation that Hangartner is our new C? I wasn't ready to cross "C" off as a need. My impression was that Hangartner has played both C & G, thus I wasn't really clear what our plans were for him.The Bills will draft a center, but it's probably not going to be the top center in the draft. I think they will start Hangartner, and it will remain his job to lose during the season. the guy they draft will be under zero pressure unless Hangartner gets injured or stinks.

[Mahdi]

The Bills will draft a center, but it's probably not going to be the top center in the draft. I think they will start Hangartner, and it will remain his job to lose during the season. the guy they draft will be under zero pressure unless Hangartner gets injured or stinks.
I think the Bills will draft one of the C prospects and move them to Guard.

[X-Era]

I think the Bills will draft one of the C prospects and move them to Guard.

Unger would be a smart move then.

[Mahdi]

Unger would be a smart move then.
I actually think there are a few who could slide to G easily. My Favs are actually Caldwell and Luigs. Caldwell is actually a clone of LeCharles Bentley.

[madness]

I think the Bills will draft one of the C prospects and move them to Guard.

I could definitely see that happening.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

Ya if Unger, Mack or Wood are on the board in the 2nd I def see this happening. Since we run the zone, Unger may be the best fit at guard for us. I'd rather see Mack or Wood. Though the man I really want is Levitre, athletic enough to pull but strong enough to push the pocket. That dude is nasty mofo as well. I do think that out of all the prospects they will take Herman Johnson though, not my fav prospect but would be pissed if we take him. The bills love big guys and he's the biggest one in the draft.

[patmoran2006]

Hangartner was signed with the full intention of being the starting center this year.

The Bills will land a guard before this process is over, I just have no idea who it's going to be.

The organization pretty much stated Chambers was not resigned to be the left guard.

[homeslice5484]

i wonder if we will sign a starting LB and LG soon......after that we really need to work on depth at LB and Safety and OLINE

[patmoran2006]

Ya if Unger, Mack or Wood are on the board in the 2nd I def see this happening. Since we run the zone, Unger may be the best fit at guard for us. I'd rather see Mack or Wood. Though the man I really want is Levitre, athletic enough to pull but strong enough to push the pocket. That dude is nasty mofo as well. I do think that out of all the prospects they will take Herman Johnson though, not my fav prospect but would be pissed if we take him. The bills love big guys and he's the biggest one in the draft.
I don't see that happening. I see them going pass rusher/tight end in the first two rounds, not sure what order. And then I see A LOT of Offensive line selections in the third round and beyond.

This a team with precious little OL depth right now. At this time, besides four starters they only have Chambers and Bell under contract (I believe)

There is no backup center on the roster, and there isn't a single guard (I dont think anyway) currently on the roster.

If he doesnt find a chance to start elsewhere (He's visited with the Raiders) I wouldn't be surprised to see Duke Preston brought back for an interior backup role.

[patmoran2006]

i wonder if we will sign a starting LB and LG soon......after that we really need to work on depth at LB and Safety and OLINE
I'm not saying safety isn't important but nowhere as important as other positions. They do have several safeties under contract, including Whitner, Simpson, Scott, Wilson and Wendling.

If they find a guy they really like in FA or draft, then sure. But I wouldn't count on it.

I've said this before. I"m not as uncomfortable with Scott starting as a lot of others.

[homeslice5484]

preston is good depth

[patmoran2006]

11:38AM: I'm going through the usual channels to try and get in contact with Josh Reed. I'm looking forward to getting a few quotes about the Owens contract and how he perceives his role in this offense.

Then again I shouldn't be too excited. He's one of the worst interviews I've EVER had.

[homeslice5484]

i dont mind scott..i do think lb is a need we need to address soon, as is LG

[homeslice5484]

i was at the jets game in New Jersey sitting behind Scott's dad. Scott broke up that TD pass right below us. He is not bad, although I would prefer an upgrade. Simpson had a rough year.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

I don't see that happening. I see them going pass rusher/tight end in the first two rounds, not sure what order. And then I see A LOT of Offensive line selections in the third round and beyond.

This a team with precious little OL depth right now. At this time, besides four starters they only have Chambers and Bell under contract (I believe)

There is no backup center on the roster, and there isn't a single guard (I dont think anyway) currently on the roster.

If he doesnt find a chance to start elsewhere (He's visited with the Raiders) I wouldn't be surprised to see Duke Preston brought back for an interior backup role.

True but this is what I'm hoping for. We can still grab a passing catching Tightend in the 3rd cause I truly believe Coffman, Casey, Beckum or Ingram will be there. No doubt in my mind.

[DraftBoy]

If we are going to OC and move him to OG then my pick would be Luigis in Round 3. He is the best guy to play OG out of all the OC's. Good athleticism, great technique, and tenacity.

[Michael82]

i wonder if we will sign a starting LB and LG soon......after that we really need to work on depth at LB and Safety and OLINE

If we sign Cato June or even Freddy Keiaho, our Linebacker corps is complete and actually very solid. Check it out....

Paul Posluszy, Kavika Mitchell, Cato June with....

John DiGiorgio, Keith Ellison, Alvin Bowen as depth.

[homeslice5484]

i agree...which is why i think we need to sign a LB and LG before the draft who can start...I am not too confident in their ability to draft starters at those positions.

[DraftBoy]

If we sign Cato June or even Freddy Keiaho, our Linebacker corps is complete and actually very solid. Check it out....

Paul Posluszy, Kavika Mitchell, Cato June with....

John DiGiorgio, Keith Ellison, Alvin Bowen as depth.

How do you see that as even close to solid? There is no playmaker in the entire group. Its a slight improvement over last year but its not anything write home about either.

[The Juice Is Loose]

Anybody heard anything on Jason Taylor?

I'm not sure I'd even want him. He didn't seem to make any impact last year.

I was just wondering who if anybody was kicking his tires?

Similar to Jabari, if the Patriots pursued him I'd try to steal him just so they don't get him.

[mysticsoto]

Hangartner was signed with the full intention of being the starting center this year.

The Bills will land a guard before this process is over, I just have no idea who it's going to be.

The organization pretty much stated Chambers was not resigned to be the left guard.

Pat, any chance you can try and get a scoop on what's the latest with Waters? Are they still thinking of pursuing him? Are they waiting? And if so, for what?

[Mudflap1]

How do you see that as even close to solid? There is no playmaker in the entire group. Its a slight improvement over last year but its not anything write home about either.

You've obviously forgotten about Jon Corto and Blake Costanzo...

[Mudflap1]

Pat, where did you hear that Chambers is not being looked at as the starting LG? I thought it was the opposite, that the Bills cryptically stated that they had "big plans" for him?

Jon

[Nighthawk]

If we sign Cato June or even Freddy Keiaho, our Linebacker corps is complete and actually very solid. Check it out....

Paul Posluszy, Kavika Mitchell, Cato June with....

John DiGiorgio, Keith Ellison, Alvin Bowen as depth.

The starting positions would be better, but the depth is still horrible and if an injury occured, this team would be in trouble again. I'd get rid of Ellison and DiGiorgio...neither are good enough to play in this league. Bowen got hurt, so I don't have any gauge on him yet.

[camelcowboy]

The starting positions would be better, but the depth is still horrible and if an injury occured, this team would be in trouble again. I'd get rid of Ellison and DiGiorgio...neither are good enough to play in this league. Bowen got hurt, so I don't have any gauge on him yet. hey hawk, how do you feel about Owens?

[THATHURMANATOR]

The starting positions would be better, but the depth is still horrible and if an injury occured, this team would be in trouble again. I'd get rid of Ellison and DiGiorgio...neither are good enough to play in this league. Bowen got hurt, so I don't have any gauge on him yet.
I am with you on Ellison but I don't have a Problem with Digi, plus how much money can we spend at LB?

[TigerJ]

Ya if Unger, Mack or Wood are on the board in the 2nd I def see this happening. Since we run the zone, Unger may be the best fit at guard for us. I'd rather see Mack or Wood. Though the man I really want is Levitre, athletic enough to pull but strong enough to push the pocket. That dude is nasty mofo as well. I do think that out of all the prospects they will take Herman Johnson though, not my fav prospect but would be pissed if we take him. The bills love big guys and he's the biggest one in the draft.I'm not at all sure about that. The Bills cut Dockery after all. Maybe they're thinking a little smaller and more athletic would be smarter. The Bills still have Walker, but other than himm the rest of their line is much closer to the NFL average. Peters is 325 or thereabouts. Hangartner and Butler are both 315

[Nighthawk]

hey hawk, how do you feel about Owens?

I like it...I don't like him, but they needed to make some noise and create some interest in this team and this does it. He will be a huge help to that offense. I want this team to win and he definitely will help to accomplish that.

[patmoran2006]

1:39PM: From what I'm being told, it appears that Freddy Keiaho is the Bills primary target among LB's that visited. Obviously, money plays a factor into any decision. But I'm gaining confidence that we'll have a new LB by midweek.

Not a lot going on at OBD in terms of new prospects, right now its about identifying who from visits they want to target most.

[Mudflap1]

There are only so many holes you can fill in one offseason. Poz is below average (with the hope that last year was his "rookie" season and he'll get better), Mitchell is maybe slightly above average, and Ellison is way below average. If they sign June, or even Keiaho, they are average LB's, so the Bills can say they upgraded their linebackers, and hope Poz gets better this year. Then there's improvement to hang their hat on. In the meanwhile, they are hoping McKelvin steps up, and that Florence is at least quality depth while a guy like Youboty comes back and can play some nickel back. If that happens, the Bills will be equal or maybe a little better at CB. Then they draft a pass rushing DE who hopefully can make some impact this year. The defense would then be improved. Remember, they were average statistically last year, so even a marginal improvement on the defense should make them slightly above average. Add that to a potentially strong offense that should score more points (and take a lot of pressure off the defense), and there is the hope for improvement.

But more work needs to be done, on both sides of the ball.

[Nighthawk]

I am with you on Ellison but I don't have a Problem with Digi, plus how much money can we spend at LB?

I'd rather have a rookie with upside then either Ellison or Digi on this roster. When he played when Poz got hurt, Digi did not impress me...not even a little. Couldn't stop the run, got ran over all the time and rarely made any plays.

[patmoran2006]

Pat, any chance you can try and get a scoop on what's the latest with Waters? Are they still thinking of pursuing him? Are they waiting? And if so, for what?
I have been trying like hell to get contact with Waters, becuase I know a front office isnt going to comment about trading a player away that hasn't happend.

The problem with Waters is that he is represented by himself.

[Nighthawk]

1:39PM: From what I'm being told, it appears that Freddy Keiaho is the Bills primary target among LB's that visited. Obviously, money plays a factor into any decision. But I'm gaining confidence that we'll have a new LB by midweek.

Not a lot going on at OBD in terms of new prospects, right now its about identifying who from visits they want to target most.

I liked Keiaho coming out of college and was one of the players I was hoping the Bills would select. He plays hard and should bring something to this team from that standpoint.

[madness]

Pat, where did you hear that Chambers is not being looked at as the starting LG? I thought it was the opposite, that the Bills cryptically stated that they had "big plans" for him?

Jon

I think it's more than a contingency plan than anything. Buffalo is usually good at having one mainly because of their failure rate on "Plan A".

I took the "big plans" as they're possibly grooming him into a starter but look to him to be one of their top backups this season. I don't think his contract is starter money but leans toward being a well paid backup.

[madness]

I am with you on Ellison but I don't have a Problem with Digi, plus how much money can we spend at LB?

A little extra if they're worth it. If not, well... see DE and the log jam we've created for ourselves.

[patmoran2006]

I think it's more than a contingency plan than anything. Buffalo is usually good at having one mainly because of their failure rate on "Plan A".

I took the "big plans" as they're possibly grooming him into a starter but look to him to be one of their top backups this season. I don't think his contract is starter money but leans toward being a well paid backup.
I think your going to see at least two OL rookies on the roster this year in backup roles.

If they get a LG in free agency, and a LB, maybe a 3rd RB they're not going to be spending more than that.. Dont forget about Peters.

TO was more than they were thinking of spending at WR, but with a one year deal it was too good to pass up.

[psubills62]

How do you see that as even close to solid? There is no playmaker in the entire group. Its a slight improvement over last year but its not anything write home about either.

How exactly do you define "solid?" Last I knew, "solid" didn't mean "great." It means...solid. Which that LB corps would be. We don't need a 5-sack, 5 INT LB to make it solid. We'd have guys who generally get the job done.

[Mudflap1]

I think your going to see at least two OL rookies on the roster this year in backup roles.

If they get a LG in free agency, and a LB, maybe a 3rd RB they're not going to be spending more than that.. Dont forget about Peters.

TO was more than they were thinking of spending at WR, but with a one year deal it was too good to pass up.

T.O. was 500K more than Coles, but Florence was probably seen as a cheap buy, so it probably evened out with what was budgeted.

[Dr. Lecter]

I think your going to see at least two OL rookies on the roster this year in backup roles.

If they get a LG in free agency, and a LB, maybe a 3rd RB they're not going to be spending more than that.. Dont forget about Peters.

TO was more than they were thinking of spending at WR, but with a one year deal it was too good to pass up.

I disagree with the last part - Coles would have gotten more in year 1 than TO.

[Mudflap1]

I have been trying like hell to get contact with Waters, becuase I know a front office isnt going to comment about trading a player away that hasn't happend.

The problem with Waters is that he is represented by himself.

Maybe that's not such a bad thing actually? Are you trying to contact him directly, one-on-one?

[Nighthawk]

How exactly do you define "solid?" Last I knew, "solid" didn't mean "great." It means...solid. Which that LB corps would be. We don't need a 5-sack, 5 INT LB to make it solid. We'd have guys who generally get the job done.

Maybe the starters would be solid, but the backups are below mediocre. This team needs to start filling the backup positions with people who can actually play when called upon.

[yordad]

Maybe the starters would be solid, but the backups are below mediocre. This team needs to start filling the backup positions with people who can actually play when called upon.I'm pretty sure most teams have backup talent, in their backup positions. If it was starter talent, they wouldn't be backups.

[psubills62]

Maybe the starters would be solid, but the backups are below mediocre. This team needs to start filling the backup positions with people who can actually play when called upon.

How are they bad depth? Both of those guys started for a year or more (Ellison's case). If you remember correctly, these guys were starters on the 2007 team that went 7-9 against a harder schedule than in 2008. I'm not saying they're better than Poz and Mitchell, but they did a good enough job to be considered backups. It's not like you're going to have Ray Lewis as depth at every LB position.

[TacklingDummy]

I'm pretty sure most teams have backup talent, in their backup positions. If it was starter talent, they wouldn't be backups.

That's not entirely true. Look at Michael Turner in SD and Fred Jackson in Buffalo. Those are just 2 examples of players that should be starters but were forced to play backup.

[Michael82]

1:39PM: From what I'm being told, it appears that Freddy Keiaho is the Bills primary target among LB's that visited. Obviously, money plays a factor into any decision. But I'm gaining confidence that we'll have a new LB by midweek.

Not a lot going on at OBD in terms of new prospects, right now its about identifying who from visits they want to target most.
I prefer June, but I could go for Keiaho. He's a good tackler. :up:

[jimbohastle51]

1:39PM: From what I'm being told, it appears that Freddy Keiaho is the Bills primary target among LB's that visited. Obviously, money plays a factor into any decision. But I'm gaining confidence that we'll have a new LB by midweek.

Not a lot going on at OBD in terms of new prospects, right now its about identifying who from visits they want to target most.
as much as i dont see him as a sure fire upgrade over ellison i have to say that when they signed owens to 6.5 guaranteed (and your right pat they didnt intend to spend that much on a WR, even though coles would have gotten 6 million per season it would have been probably half in incentives not all guaranteed) 4 million sign bonus and 2.5 paid throughout the season i figured that keiaho would be the guy because he will be a really cheap base salary and honestly you wont even notice his salary on our cap. he'll probably get a 4 year deal with like 2 million in the first year and a 850k cap hit and the rest in bonus probably. and foster wont even cost a million, he didnt in san fran last year, and he didnt really improve his status so with those to small signings we should have enough cash to get a really nice guard, again a kendall simmons or a trade for waters would deffinatly be able to get worked in as well as signing peters if keiaho and foster are our 2 LB, and RB answers. also if we sign kieaho dont rule out a LB in the first round. where we are picking i dont think a pass rusher we will take will be there and we wont take a TE at 11 so if mauluga is there they might just take him, i know they are extremely high on him, as i am sure you already know pat.

[THATHURMANATOR]

STOP ARGUING ABOUT FREAKING BACK UP LINEBACKERS ALREADY.

[Michael82]

TO was more than they were thinking of spending at WR, but with a one year deal it was too good to pass up.

I disagree. They were offering Coles over $6 million per year and that deal was for like $20 million, so with their cash to the cap...Owens is cheaper. Don't forget that they also saved money for Greer, but ended up getting Florence for cheaper too.

[jimbohastle51]

I prefer June, but I could go for Keiaho. He's a good tackler. :up:

i as well prefer june, but keiaho will get peanuts compared to june and we need the money to bring in a starting guard or pay waters his 3million(+) salary.

[jimbohastle51]

STOP ARGUING ABOUT FREAKING BACK UP LINEBACKERS ALREADY.

well one of these backup linebackers will be starting for us on sundays :) or it will be a rookie LB take your pick, i am open to debating either LOL!!!

[THATHURMANATOR]

well one of these backup linebackers will be starting for us on sundays :) or it will be a rookie LB take your pick, i am open to debating either LOL!!!
Or we sign another Linebacker...

[THATHURMANATOR]

If anyone brings up back up linebacker again I am going to shut this site down for 1 hour.

[patmoran2006]

I disagree. They were offering Coles over $6 million per year and that deal was for like $20 million, so with their cash to the cap...Owens is cheaper. Don't forget that they also saved money for Greer, but ended up getting Florence for cheaper too.
yeah but nobody knows the details.. Base salaries could've been backloaded so that if in 1-2 years he really slowed down he could get cut easier.

[homeslice5484]

regardless who, we need a LB that is better than Ellison and a starting LG before the draft.

[Mski]

STOP ARGUING ABOUT FREAKING BACK UP LINEBACKERS ALREADY.

STOP TYPING IN CAPS ALREADY. or i will bring up the back up linebackers again!

[clumping platelets]

yeah but nobody knows the details.. Base salaries could've been backloaded so that if in 1-2 years he really slowed down he could get cut easier.

Coles deal is likely only a 2 yr deal or maybe even a 1 yr deal

2009: $1.9 million
2010: $4.65 million
2011: $6.4 million
2012: $6.4 million

[Dr. Lecter]

STOP TYPING IN CAPS ALREADY. or i will bring up the back up linebackers again!

What do you think of Corto?

[Mski]

What do you think of Corto?:doh: isnt he the kid from WNY?

[jimbohastle51]

yeah but nobody knows the details.. Base salaries could've been backloaded so that if in 1-2 years he really slowed down he could get cut easier.

thats exactly what they did. i am sure we basically offered him a 1 (its was a 3 year but basically it was structured to be a 1 year in case we have a losing season and coaches change or he doesnt produce) year deal at somewhere around 5 million guaranteed with around a million in incentives so he got what he missed out on with the jets. the bengals offer i am sure is more like a one or 2 year deal if we had the chance to really look at it.

[patmoran2006]

regardless who, we need a LB that is better than Ellison and a starting LG before the draft. Im confident we'll get both before the draft.

[homeslice5484]

Im confident we'll get both before the draft.

I trust ya....cause if they dont we are screwed...wont find that starting talent plus DE and TE in one draft.

[Raptor]

R.Brandon said Saturday on Sirius that the Bills had lined up more visits this week, any word on with whom?

[Mudflap1]

Im confident we'll get both before the draft.

What starting LG then? Kendall Simmons is the only LG I've seen brought in, and we haven't heard boo in ten days. Waters would be great, but we haven't heard anything other than several days ago that there could be trouble in paradise in K.C. and nothing since.

[homeslice5484]

anyone else think we should have gone after a better vet qb incase edwards goes down?

[THATHURMANATOR]

done
STOP TYPING IN CAPS ALREADY. or i will bring up the back up linebackers again!

[DrGraves]

anyone else think we should have gone after a better vet qb incase edwards goes down?

I do. I mean theres no way Fitzpatrick could be worse than J.P. but that certainly doesn't meant he would be able to carry the reigns either..

[jimbohastle51]

fitzpatrick had chad johnson and housh and didnt do anything but loose games, not a good plan B

[madness]

fitzpatrick had chad johnson and housh and didnt do anything but loose games, not a good plan B

No, the rest of the team did that for them.

[Mudflap1]

What's the deal with Vonnie Holiday? He would be better than Kelsay... unless he's got chronic injuries or something.

[jimbohastle51]

What's the deal with Vonnie Holiday? He would be better than Kelsay... unless he's got chronic injuries or something.

i dont know if holiday is in buffalo's interest because we are taking a pass rusher high in the draft and i don't know if they want to bring a free agent in and then not have a roster spot for a high draft pick, or they will have to cut someone. chris ellis is unfortunately not getting cut, and schoebel they are hoping returns to form, ryan denney is cheap and they need him on run downs as well as he does bat alot of balls down at the line of scrimmage, and then there is kelsay who every bills fan knows should be cut, but again unfortunately the coaching staff loves the guy and will give him every benefit of the doubt even though he couldnt get 9 sacks in a season if he was on the giants front that sacks everybody LOL!

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Thanks again Pat for all of your efforts. Much appreciated.
(BTW: if you haven't seen it, please look at my earlier thread "Just Sent The Following..." --I hope I didn't mess up your relationship with Graham by mentioning you).

As I stated in another thread, at this point, I believe that the Bills' first priority MUST be securing the services of a LG who can give them at least above average play at the position.

Having TO gives the Bills a one year window of opportunity to take this team to the next level (not SB perhaps, but playoffs), but to take advantage of that they must protect Edwards--he can't be on his butt or getting hit as he throws half the time. As of now, the Bills will need to add at least two interior offensive linemen to the roster just to replace players that are gone. They can't rely on a rookie being able to come in and give them the play that they will need on Day One, so one of those interior linemen will have to be a veteran, whether they acquire him through free agency or the draft. The other spot can be filled by a rookie and, as Pat said, they may draft more than one to compete for spots on the roster and PS.

But, getting a veteran LG has to be their top priority now.

However, bringing in a veteran LG and inking Peters to a contract extension is going to be expensive. Combining that with the additions of Coles, Fitzpatrick, Florence and Hangartner, that probably means the Bills won't have a whole lot of money to spend filling their other needs in free agency.

As a result, the Bills may be forced to "wait out the market" for some of the players they have brought in, especially the LBs, until the market for their services dries up (meaning that maybe a couple of them sign elsewhere) and their price drops because there is no market remaining for them to the point where they will accept what the Bills can offer. Since there aren't as many teams that play the Tampa 2 as there used to be, this could happen with June or Keiaho--but how soon remains to be seen. As a result, the Bills could still end up getting a possible upgrade at OLB, but it may take awhile to happen.

As far as Ellison, DiGiorgio, the linebacking corps, and the defense are concerned, I would like to point a couple of things out to those who seem to think that the Bills really need to make drastic upgrades:

1.) Despite playing the entire season without the player that they projected to be their starting SLB and having Ellison starting at that position and playing all but one game without their best pass rusher, with losing their starting CBs for a total of nine games and being forced to start a rookie at that position to replace them and playing a rookie as their nickelback for much of the season, and with a first year starter in Poz at MLB and losing Digiorgio, their back up MLB for the season, the Bills still finished 14th in total defense and scoring defense and 13th in passing defense.

2.) And, that was with an offense that struggled, especially in the games that JP Losman played in, but also in some of the games that Edwards started (particularly when J.Reed was hurt).

3.) At one point last season I listed all of the back-up OLBs on every team in the NFL and less than a half dozen were shown to have at least one potential starter or quality veteran starter with more games started than Ellison. The results were or would have been similar with DiGiorgio. Most teams carried rookies or special teams specialists, like Corto, on their roster at the LB position.

While I will not say that Ellison is anything more than adequate as a starter at OLB (and I do hope that they are able to replace him with an upgrade in the starting lineup), he and DiGiorgio give the Bills one of the better sets of back-up LBs in the league. Let me reiterate the point that I made in my post last year: most NFL teams do NOT carry starting caliber LBs as back-ups on their roster unless it is a rookie that they believe has the potential to develop into a starter but has not reached that level yet--and, even then, there are only a small number of such rookies scattered around the league.

With Schobel coming back from his injury and McKelvin, Corner and C.Ellis expected to make the usual improvement that second year NFL players make, and, most importantly, with a potentially better offense, the Bills would/do not need to make that many moves to have a considerably better defense--a defense capable of getting them to the playoffs--in 2009, if they can stay healthy. Staying healthy and getting their injured players back at the same level that they had been playing at previously, more than anything, will be the key. After that, they must get the expected improvement from their young players.

The addition of a veteran OLB who would be an upgrade over Ellison in the starting lineup would be helpful. But, as much as that would add to the team, it is not as crucial, at this point, to the overall success of the team as making sure that they add an above average LG to help protect Trent Edwards.

I believe that they can still do both of these things and still have a few dollars left to bring in a back-up RB and maybe a blocking TE for the veteran minimum. But, I wouldn't sacrifice the opportunity to bring in a better LG in order to sign an OLB at this point.

Finally, I know that a lot of people are down on the signing of Fitzpatrick as the back-up QB. But, again, PLEASE, try to think in terms of dollars and cents.

The older, more experienced veteran QBs are either going to want more money or to go to a place where they feel that they may have a chance to compete for a starting job. With the Bills wanting to extend Peters' contract and sign a # 2 WR and having so many holes to fill, they were not going to be able to pay most of these veteran QBs what they were going to be looking for. And, being committed to Edwards, they would not be willing to let a QB come in and compete for the starting job or take over the job permanently if Edwards should miss a game or two. This limited the pool of possible back-up QBs that they could go for and that would be interested in signing with them.

Before Ferrotte got released (and even if you count Ferrotte), the Bills were looking at the likes of QBs like Boller and Fitzpatrick and maybe a couple of others (remember that Losman and Grossman are both convinced that they can be starters and are looking for spots where they can start--Garcia and Leftwich, too--and are going to want that kind of money as well).

Now, there are a couple of things that you can say about Fitzpatrick that make him somewhat more attractive than most of the other QBs in the pool that fit the Bills' circumstances: 1.) while he doesn't have a winning record and has been horrible at times when called on to start, he has shown improvement in his game during his career--he played much better overall last year in Cincy than he did in his starts in St.Louis; 2.) unlike Boller and even some of the other younger back-ups, Fitzpatrick isn't "shell-shocked" and hasn't yet shown that he simply doesn't have the capacity to "get" how an offense is supposed to work--he may not be able to execute it as well as some, but he understands it better than many; 3.) not having come into the NFL as a potential starter, he won't have designs on taking over the starting job and is less likely to be jealous of TE or create a controversy in the lockerroom or media; and, 4.) he is smart enough to be able to see things on film and communicate ideas to Edwards in a way that can help to make TE a better QB.

Now, I know that that is not going to satisfy those who will worry that Fitzpatrick won't be able to win games if he has to step in and play in place of Edwards this season. That is a legitimate concern. But, I would argue that very few, if any, of the QBs that fit what the Bills were looking for and could afford and would be willing to sign with the team would be any more capable of winning games if they had to replace Edwards this season than Fitzpatrick. Moreover, I would point out that, in order for the Bills to sign a back-up QB who would be more capable of winning games than Fitzpatrick, the team would have committed at least $ 1-2 million more dollars to the QB position than they did by signing Fitzpatrick.

Those dollars that they saved by signing Fitzpatrick may well mean that they will be able to sign an OLB that they otherwise couldn't afford to sign or that they may be able to get a little better LG than they would have had to settle for, etc. Which would you prefer that they do? Where would you prefer that they spend the money that they have to spend this offseason?

Even teams that play games with the salary cap and whose owners have unlimited resources to use for up-front bonus money have a budget. The Bills and the rest of the 40% or so of the NFL teams that are using a "cash-to-the-cap" approach to their spending not only have a budget that they must stick to, but less flexibility in the ways that they allocate their resources. Either way, however, most teams have a budget that they have to stick to and there are only so many things and so much that they can spend on those things and stay within their budget.

While it is easy for fans to say "sign this guy, re-sign that guy", "over-pay for that guy if you need to", "git 'er done!", "why didn't they sign this player rather than that one?", "they should have signed that guy", etc., few consider the fact that their team is on a budget and may only have so much in resources available to fill a number of holes in the roster. Seldom do any have the least bit of insight into what a team's plans are or what may go on behind the scenes between management, players and their agents. Fans only want to see things done to make the team better in their opinion, they rarely even consider the roadblocks that might exist that prevent things that the team may want to do from getting done or that there are limitations, some financial, but not all, that may get in the way.

So, let me say this now--again, once more: The Bills have a budget. They came into this offseason with a lot of holes to fill and only so much money to spend on filling those holes in their roster. Just like you and your personal budget matters, what the Bills spend on filling one need means that they have less left over to spend on filling their other needs at other positions. There is only so much money to go around and they have to try to figure out how to spend it in a way that brings the best combination of talent to the team that they can sign. They can't get a star or an expensive player at every position. They are not going to be able to get, let alone afford starter quality players at back-up positions, unless they draft a young player as a developmental project and he serves as a back-up for a year or two until he is ready to step into the starting lineup or they sign/have an aging veteran who is on downside of his career and is either hanging on or hoping to get another chance to be a starter.

Look at what the Bills needed (and wanted to do with Peters) going into the offseason and try to figure out where you would want them to allocate their resources to best improve the team if you were their GM. You don't need to know how much they had to spend, use a pie chart and divy it up by percentages. What would your priorities be? How much would you be willing to come up short in being able to address one of your higher priorities because you didn't allocate enough or put too much into another position?

It's not rocket science. But, it is what the Bills and a lot of NFL teams have to do. And, it would help if fans thought about that and too it into consideration when the offseason "feeding frenzy" begins.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

What starting LG then? Kendall Simmons is the only LG I've seen brought in, and we haven't heard boo in ten days. Waters would be great, but we haven't heard anything other than several days ago that there could be trouble in paradise in K.C. and nothing since.

If the Bills are interested in trading for Waters or discussing a trade with KC, they cannot talk about it or the player because that would be considered "tampering" and they could be fined and possibly lose a draft pick for doing so. That's why you haven't and won't hear anything more from their side of things until something is about to happen, if it ever does.

Since, according to Pat, Waters is his own agent, there is no agent, PR man or agency personnel to leak any details of what is going on from the players side of things either.

And, finally, Pioli comes from the Belichick school: nothing gets said by anyone in the organization, including players and coaches, without prior approval from above. Anyone who has played Fantasy Football knows how secretive the Pats have been about even the most minor injuries and they are just as secretive about many of their other dealings. Mangini ran into problems with the press and his players when he tried to impose a similarly secretive regime with the Jets. Don't expect any information to come out of the Chiefs unless and until it suits Pioli.

I have a feeling that the only time/way that we will here anything about a deal for Waters between the Bills and KC is if a deal is consummated and only when it goes down.

I think the silence about Simmons and the fact that the Bills haven't moved on any of the other veteran OGs out there who could help them may indicate that they are perhaps trying to work out a deal with KC and Waters or that they are waiting on them, hoping that they will be able to make a deal with them (which may be contingent upon what KC wants to do or what Waters wants financially).

I'm as anxious as anyone to see the Bills make a move for a LG, but I think that patience is the order of the day--as hard as it is for me to be patient.

The one thing that does give me hope is that it is clear that the Bills know that they have a hole at LG to fill and the fact that there hasn't been a big rush to sign OGs, so there are still some possibilities available to them that could nicely fill that void.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

What's the deal with Vonnie Holiday? He would be better than Kelsay... unless he's got chronic injuries or something.

He's been visiting teams that play a 3-4 defense. I forgot who he had a visit scheduled with today, but KFFL reported that he was visiting some 3-4 team today.

[Mudflap1]

Brian Waters represents himself. Is it tampering to call him if he's his own agent, or do you have to call the team first? I guess you have to call the team first unless the team gives the agent permission to call teams.

I see your point though with the "cloak of secrecy" theory.

[yordad]

That's not entirely true. Look at Michael Turner in SD and Fred Jackson in Buffalo. Those are just 2 examples of players that should be starters but were forced to play backup.Of course it isn't "entirely" true. It is true "enough".

[Buddo]

Brian Waters represents himself. Is it tampering to call him if he's his own agent, or do you have to call the team first? I guess you have to call the team first unless the team gives the agent permission to call teams.

I see your point though with the "cloak of secrecy" theory.

As Waters isn't any sort of FA atm, you would have to make any enquiries through his team - anything else would be 'tampering'.
The interesting aspect for me, of Waters being his own agent, is that not only is he pissed at his HC and GM, he genuinely believes he's underpaid, iirc from other stuff posted around.
Now, one aspect of things that may clear itself up, is that neither his HC or GM, may have realised that he is his own agent, and the reason for wanting to speak to either of them, was as much in that capacity as anything else. That is possibly a bridge that could be mended, but it will likely mean he will get more money.
One thing that is cerain, is that if Waters does make his mind up about something, there isn't an agent whispering in his ear to try and make him change it. ;)