News/Rumors I have including this "Cutler thing"

[Coach Sal]

And I put it all in as part of a NFL free agent/whispers column:

http://www.salsports.com/NFLWhispers.htm

[OpIv37]

Translation: one big FA move and then it's the same old half-assed **** by Buffalo's FO.

[dasaybz]

I have no idea where you came up with that translation.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

Translation: one big FA move and then it's the same old half-assed **** by Buffalo's FO.

Please stop this crap. You can get every big name free agent out there. They found good depth in Florance and Fitzpatrick and Hangartner is an upgrade. There's no doubt in my mind too, that Cato will be a Bill.

[OpIv37]

I have no idea where you came up with that translation.

Not going after Peppers. Not going after Gonzo. We have positions of need and there are very talented players out there whom the Bills are ignoring.

[Dr. Lecter]

And I put it all in as part of a NFL free agent/whispers column:

http://www.salsports.com/NFLWhispers.htm

Thanks Sal.

I, for one, am not sold on Cutler. I am not sold on Edwards either, but the cost for Cutler would be too much.

And Taylor is a perfect fit for the Patriots.

[trapezeus]

i'd have just been floored if the bills were looking at cutler. but seeing that they aren't i'm not too worried. i would love to see some action on solidifying the line. starting rookies isn't usually the way our coaching staff rolls.

[Dr. Lecter]

Not going after Peppers. Not going after Gonzo. We have positions of need and there are very talented players out there whom the Bills are ignoring.

Peppers is tagged. Gonzo is property of another team and does not want to come here. Hell, neither does Peppers.

I wish they would/could do more too. But how many team make 3 big name FA acquisitions in a year? For that matter, can the Bills kidnap those two and force them to come?

What exactly should they do with those two? Is Peppers worth 2 1st round picks?

[OpIv37]

Please stop this crap. You can get every big name free agent out there. They found good depth in Florance and Fitzpatrick and Hangartner is an upgrade. There's no doubt in my mind too, that Cato will be a Bill.

Florence isn't even as good as Greer- that position was downgraded this season. We have plenty of depth at CB with McKelvin, Youboty and Corner. We needed a starter, not depth.

Whether Fitzpatrick is better than Losman is debatable, but regardless he hopefully won't be on the field anyway. Even if he's significantly better (which he isn't), it won't make much better.

How do you figure that Hangartner is an upgrade? He was a back-up in Carolina and has a lot to prove.

As far as Cato, he's old but he would be an upgrade over Ellison. But he's not here yet. With this FO, I don't believe anything until it actually happens. And they still haven't done anything about DE, which is by far our biggest need.

[Goobylal]

Not going after Peppers. Not going after Gonzo. We have positions of need and there are very talented players out there whom the Bills are ignoring.
Gonzo didn't want to join the Bills last year. What makes you think he'd change his mind?

And Peppers wants to play in a 3-4 and for specific teams. And Buffalo neither uses a 3-4, nor were they one of the teams Peppers mentioned.

[OpIv37]

Gonzo didn't want to join the Bills last year. What makes you think he'd change his mind?

And Peppers wants to play in a 3-4 and for specific teams. And Buffalo neither uses a 3-4, nor were they one of the teams Peppers mentioned.

Money might change either of their minds.

How hard is it to make an offer? It's not like we're talking a ton of work here. And it's not like they're busy signing other players....

[Dr. Lecter]

Florence isn't even as good as Greer- that position was downgraded this season. We have plenty of depth at CB with McKelvin, Youboty and Corner. We needed a starter, not depth.

Whether Fitzpatrick is better than Losman is debatable, but regardless he hopefully won't be on the field anyway. Even if he's significantly better (which he isn't), it won't make much better.

How do you figure that Hangartner is an upgrade? He was a back-up in Carolina and has a lot to prove.

As far as Cato, he's old but he would be an upgrade over Ellison. But he's not here yet. With this FO, I don't believe anything until it actually happens. And they still haven't done anything about DE, which is by far our biggest need.

June is 29 or 30. He is hardly old.

And how do they need a starter at CB? McGee and McKelvin are starting.

[clumping platelets]

McKelvin was a 1st rd pick last year............he's expected to become a starter by 2nd year

[TonyBlack]

detroit so dumb, i would trade for cutler maybe with a 2nd round pick and a 3rd round pick and get jason smith in their first round pick.

[Dr. Lecter]

Money might change either of their minds.

How hard is it to make an offer? It's not like we're talking a ton of work here. And it's not like they're busy signing other players....

Peppers might even have the exclusive tag - no talking to other teams.

Or would you rather they sign Peppers and let Peters go because he will cost Peters money to get away from Carolina if they can even talk to him.

[clumping platelets]

Bills could add Peppers, Cassel, Owens, Scott, R. Lewis and do it without trading any players or significant assets and he would STILL find something to hine aboot

:shakeno:

[OpIv37]

June is 29 or 30. He is hardly old.

And how do they need a starter at CB? McGee and McKelvin are starting.

McKelvin's not starting material yet. He was still making a lot of rookie mistakes late last season.

[OpIv37]

Peppers might even have the exclusive tag - no talking to other teams.

Or would you rather they sign Peppers and let Peters go because he will cost Peters money to get away from Carolina if they can even talk to him.

Gaping hole at LT, gaping hole at DE..... what's the difference? either way we're screwed. We have quality DB's but they'll suck as long as we can't get pressure on the QB. We have quality receivers and RB's but they'll suck if we can't protect the backfield.

[Goobylal]

Money might change either of their minds.

How hard is it to make an offer? It's not like we're talking a ton of work here. And it's not like they're busy signing other players....
Gonzo can go pound sand and rot in KC for all I care. And Peppers is probably asking for $14M a year like Haynesworth got.

[OpIv37]

Bills could add Peppers, Cassel, Owens, Scott, R. Lewis and do it without trading any players or significant assets and he would STILL find something to hine aboot

:shakeno:

are you serious? We have gaping holes at DE, OLB, LG and still need help at TE and C. or did ONE big signing in two years make you forget about all of that?

[Dr. Lecter]

McKelvin's not starting material yet. He was still making a lot of rookie mistakes late last season.

So they should keep him on the bench so he can learn what exactly? His last 3 games or so were very good.

But since he was making rookie mistakes when he was a rookie, let's not give him a chance.

Let him return kicks and do nothing else.

C'mon. You can make better arguments than this. You know as well as I do that going after Peppers, Gonzo, TO and keeping Peters is not realistic.

[Goobylal]

McKelvin's not starting material yet. He was still making a lot of rookie mistakes late last season.
LOL! Please.

[OpIv37]

So they should keep him on the bench so he can learn what exactly? His last 3 games or so were very good.

But since he was making rookie mistakes when he was a rookie, let's not give him a chance.

Let him return kicks and do nothing else.

C'mon. You can make better arguments than this. You know as well as I do that going after Peppers, Gonzo, TO and keeping Peters is not realistic.

ever hear of a NICKEL back? He can work his way in slowly.

How many games are you willing to lose while we give him a chance?

[Dr. Lecter]

Gaping hole at LT, gaping hole at DE..... what's the difference? either way we're screwed. We have quality DB's but they'll suck as long as we can't get pressure on the QB. We have quality receivers and RB's but they'll suck if we can't protect the backfield.

I understand.

But signing only the biggest and most expensive names out there is not the answer either. Unless Dallas and Washington had rings lately I missed.

[Goobylal]

Not even 2 weeks into FA, the draft is over a month away, and already Op has thrown in the towel on the season. Oy.

[OpIv37]

LOL! Please.
Sorry, but the truth is the truth. In preseason and when he first got on the field, McKelvin made rookie mistakes without any big plays. Towards the end of the year, he made some big plays but also some big mistakes. If you can't see it, I don't know what to tell you. That's what happened.

[OpIv37]

I understand.

But signing only the biggest and most expensive names out there is not the answer either. Unless Dallas and Washington had rings lately I missed.

Neither is signing Jason Babin. He's the only DE they've brought in so far. If there's a happy medium, who is it and why haven't the Bills looked at him?

and seriously, paying TO and one other top player hardly makes us the Skins or Cowboys.

[Dr. Lecter]

ever hear of a NICKEL back? He can work his way in slowly.

How many games are you willing to lose while we give him a chance?

He was the 11th overall pick. He needs to play fulltime at some point. Hell, Greer was not exactly a star out there despite what this board thinks of him.

McKelvin was pretty good the last quarter of the season. Probably as good as Greer.He spent his time slowly last year.

You were the same guy who *****ed when the Bills "were not going to start Poz" (which they did) his rookie year. Now you want the 2nd year, 11th overall pick on the bench? huh?

How many games did he cause the Bills to lose last year?

[jimbohastle51]

if we signed goff or simmons and cato june, i'de be happy, it really makes no difference to me if we sign deshaun foster or let bruce hall and oman compete for the 3rd back job.

[OpIv37]

Not even 2 weeks into FA, the draft is over a month away, and already Op has thrown in the towel on the season. Oy.

the draft? The ****ing draft?

Have you watched the team the past 3 years? Have you seen how many draft picks we've missed on? Every year, we rely on the draft to fill holes and every year we wind up 7-9. It's too hard to fill holes with the draft, especially with the morons in this FO making the picks.

As far as FA, every day that passes means fewer quality players available.

[Dr. Lecter]

Neither is signing Jason Babin. He's the only DE they've brought in so far. If there's a happy medium, who is it and why haven't the Bills looked at him?

and seriously, paying TO and one other top player hardly makes us the Skins or Cowboys.

I agree they need a DE. Of course, the FA class is weak and they will likely try to draft one (and possibly screw it up - I know)

You were pissed that they are not going after Gonzo or Peppers. Going after those two is not likely, nor is it possible if they want to sign Peters. In the case of Gonzo, it is not legal. (Only the Patriots are allowed to tamper. You know that)

Again, should the offer Peppers 10 million per and let Peters go?

[OpIv37]

He was the 11th overall pick. He needs to play fulltime at some point. Hell, Greer was not exactly a star out there despite what this board thinks of him.

McKelvin was pretty good the last quarter of the season. Probably as good as Greer.He spent his time slowly last year.

You were the same guy who *****ed when the Bills "were not going to start Poz" (which they did) his rookie year. Now you want the 2nd year, 11th overall pick on the bench? huh?

How many games did he cause the Bills to lose last year?

You're forgetting that Digi played the year before and didn't play particularly well. I was mad that they weren't going to start Poz because I had no confidence in Digi.

And McKelvin wasn't nearly as good as Greer. That's pure hyperbole.

[clumping platelets]

are you serious? We have gaping holes at DE, OLB, LG and still need help at TE and C. or did ONE big signing in two years make you forget about all of that?


I understand more than you think Op.............you simply do not give a "$4 million/yr player" $6 million/yr or more. Bills may very well be interested in a player and invite said player to visit but that player does not want to come here or just prefers playing somewhere else. I also understand that FA in barely 2 weeks old and there is still time to resolve issues with the roster.

[OpIv37]

I agree they need a DE. Of course, the FA class is weak and they will likely try to draft one (and possibly screw it up - I know)

You were pissed that they are not going after Gonzo or Peppers. Going after those two is not likely, nor is it possible if they want to sign Peters. In the case of Gonzo, it is not legal. (Only the Patriots are allowed to tamper. You know that)

Again, should the offer Peppers 10 million per and let Peters go?

They can probably afford both. Other teams that are in worse cap space somehow shell out a lot more than that every year.

[Dr. Lecter]

the draft? The ****ing draft?

Have you watched the team the past 3 years? Have you seen how many draft picks we've missed on? Every year, we rely on the draft to fill holes and every year we wind up 7-9. It's too hard to fill holes with the draft, especially with the morons in this FO making the picks.

As far as FA, every day that passes means fewer quality players available.

So you don't want the FA using the draft. you want them using FA.

Because they are so much better at FA? Maybe Derrick Dockery JR. is out there.

[Dr. Lecter]

They can probably afford both. Other teams that are in worse cap space somehow shell out a lot more than that every year.

Throw in 9 million for Evans too.

And the fact that Peppers does NOT want to come here.

[OpIv37]

I understand more than you think Op.............you simply do not give a "$4 million/yr player" $6 million/yr or more. Bills may very well be interested in a player and invite said player to visit but that player does not want to come here or just prefers playing somewhere else. I also understand that FA in barely 2 weeks old and there is still time to resolve issues with the roster.

so, at this point in FA, we're going to find a DE, LG, Backup C who can maybe compete for the starting job, OLB, and TE? Who are we going to find, especially when the Bills have summarily dismissed the best DE and TE on the market?

[OpIv37]

So you don't want the FA using the draft. you want them using FA.

Because they are so much better at FA? Maybe Derrick Dockery JR. is out there.

good point- it probably doesn't matter. They'll screw it up either way.

But I'd rather see them at least try in FA. The draft is hit or miss in two ways: who's available when you pick and how good that pick turns out to be. In FA, at least they don't have to worry about order.

[Dr. Lecter]

You're forgetting that Digi played the year before and didn't play particularly well. I was mad that they weren't going to start Poz because I had no confidence in Digi.

And McKelvin wasn't nearly as good as Greer. That's pure hyperbole.

Greer was OK. Nothing great. I actually agree with Hurricane on this one - the fans overhyped this guy big time. I said it during the season and I stand by it. People here acted like he was the 2nd coming when is a slightly above average CB, if that.

McKelvin was playing very well during the end of the season and has a lot more talent than Greer. Again, I ask, how many games did he lose the Bills last year?

You know I agree there are holes on the team. But teams do not fix all of their holes in FA. (Dallas, Washington). The problem with the Bills is not this FA period, but the previous 9 seasons of drafting, keeping and acquiring talent.

[OpIv37]

You know I agree there are holes on the team. But teams do not fix all of their holes in FA. (Dallas, Washington). The problem with the Bills is not this FA period, but the previous 9 seasons of drafting, keeping and acquiring talent.

agreed, but that means they need to do a lot to overcome 9 seasons of deficiencies. Either that, or wait several more for them to rebuild and get it right.

The way I see it, this team is grossly insufficient and has two options: grab some talent and attempt to make a run before breaking it down and rebuilding, or struggle for another year or two before deciding we need to break it down and rebuild. I'd rather take the shot. It's a long shot, but it's better than "no shot" with option B.

[topher180]

No chance I could quote just one post of the back n forth...

Although Op is often cynical, I think the point he is trying to make is two fold. First, we still have huge holes to fill and despite the TO move the FO hasn't done much to really improve this football team. Save the Fitzpatrick is a veteran and Hangartner is a starter junk too. That's laughable. Secondly, the Bills haven't drafted well overall and even if they had a stellar draft this year (which we of course won't know for at least 3 years after), there simply isn't enough rounds or good players to fill every spot.

The TO move was fantastic and I applaud them for doing it. However it doesn't give them an excuse to sit back and relax now. I can't be the only person who is a little shaky on the O-Line, TE, and our pathetic pass rush.

I've been critical about the lack of effort towards ANY name players in the past, and I can't make that argument anymore. Names don't equal quality, and yes I know who Dan Snyder is, understood. But now that the big splash was made, at least one weakness could be filled with the best available player in a given position.

[Philagape]

I think it's a given that the DE will come via the draft. Peppers wants a 3-4, so that's the end of the issue.
But potential impact veterans at G and LB are available.
I'm not real concerned with TE. Deep draft.

[topher180]

I think it's a given that the DE will come via the draft. Peppers wants a 3-4, so that's the end of the issue.
But potential impact veterans at G and LB are available.
I'm not real concerned with TE. Deep draft.

I'll go along with that.

I know that many teams don't use first round picks for TEs, but I really think if we are serious about this position we should draft one early or maybe even get the best available period. I am not a college scout and I admittedly don't keep up with the kids coming up as much as others, but we haven't had a legit receiving threat at TE in sooooo long. I hate NFL cliches, but one I do believe is how a TE can be a security blanket, especially for young QBs.

[Goobylal]

I don't know what games you were watching, but Greer missed half of last season and McKelvin was showing why he was the 11th overall pick and the Bills could afford to let Greer walk. With the Bills getting back Youboty, plus having McGee and signing Florence, the CB position is better than it's been in decades. My bigger concern is what to do opposite Whitner, since I've grown tired of Simpson.

The Bills will likely sign Cato June to play LB. He'll be a big upgrade to Ellison, and with Digi's return, it will give the Bills good depth.

At DE, Schobel's foot is healed. Kelsay and Denney will be healthy. The Bills are looking at DE early in the draft. Ellis may contribute. When Schobel went down last year, he took the pass rush with him. Yet still the defense played well and kept the Bills in games, only to be let-down by the offense.

At DT, I'd like the Bills to add another DT. I've heard that Fred Robbins from the Giants might be available in trade. But hey, the time to make moves is over, right?

As for Hangarnter, he'll be better than Fowler. Whether you choose to believe it or not makes no difference to me. And the Bills could pickup some scrub and put him at LG, and see him put in a better effort than Dockery gave the past 2 years. Dockery was graded-out as the worst Bills OL last year, and the Bills were going to bench him mid-season.

As for TE, again going back to Gonzo, why does no one else want him either? It's almost 2 weeks into FA and he still hasn't been traded. Hmmm?

And TO's addition completely changes the face of the offense. With a major threat at WR, there will be no more doubling Lee and taking the only threat out of the picture. There will also be no more 8 men in the box, which means more running room for the RB's.

[Philagape]

Plus, the TO effect will make Schouman and Fine look better

[Goobylal]

Plus, the TO effect will make Schouman and Fine look better
That's why I don't think the Bills look at TE until maybe the 3rd round. If even.

[yordad]

I think the Bills could get a starting DE, TE, OG and even a FB in the draft. If they do sign Cato, they will start looking better to me.

But, although I'm not as pessimistic as Op, I won't believe they are playoff bound til it's clinched, if ever. But that ain't gonna keep me from enjoying 16 games of being a Bills fan. Or the off-season for a few days if I can.

[DrGraves]

sadly at this point i think the bills will move before they make the playoffs

[venis2k1]

sadly at this point i think the bills will move before they make the playoffs

Into a new Downtown Stadium??

[LifetimeBillsFan]

OpIv, you make a very good point in pointing out that the Bills still have holes to fill and should be as aggressive as possible in trying to pursue ways to fill those holes. Then, you wreck your credibility by saying that the fact that the fact that they have not tried to bring in Gonzales and Peppers this offseason shows that they are not trying to improve the team and that McKelvin is not ready to start and that they should have kept Greer.

Let me start with McKelvin and Greer:
You say that McKelvin isn't ready to start because he made "rookie mistakes" last season. Of course he made "rookie mistakes" when he played last season--HE WAS A ROOKIE!!! He won't be a rookie this season: he will be a supremely talented, up-and-coming young CB who already has some starting experience. That is the kind of young player that you want taking over a starting job in your lineup! You should know that. (Oh, I forgot, the Bills FO drafted McKelvin, so, in your opinion, he will never be any good--no matter how many good plays he makes, you will always counter by citing the times that he gets beat, even though every CB, even the All-Pros get beat sometimes.)

Greer was a nice find for the Bills. A UDFA who developed into a nice, solid CB with some man-to-man cover skills. He stepped in as a starter when the Bills had a need at CB and did a nice job. But, he wasn't Deon Sanders or Champ Bailey. He was a good, solid, average NFL CB--2-2 1/2 stars on a five or six star rating system. And, he doesn't have and never will have the athletic ability or big-play potential of McKelvin or even McGee (who is better in run support). Having worked his way up to be a starter with the Bills, he wanted to be a starter, but he wasn't going to be a starter any more for the Bills. And, the Bills weren't going to pay $ 4 million for a third-string CB who would primarily be a nickelback (the Pats aren't paying Springs or Bodden that much and it can be argued that both are at least as good, if not better than Greer!). Greer visited a lot of teams but didn't wasn't given an offer until he went to New Orleans, where he not only got the close to the kind of money he was looking for, but will have a chance to be a starter. With McGee and McKelvin, Buffalo couldn't and wouldn't have been able to offer him what he got from New Orleans even if they had paid him as much--which would have been overpaying him by a lot to be a nickelback.

Florence showed in San Diego that he is better as a nickelback than he is on the outside and the Bills got him for nickelback money. Youboty has shown that he can play on the outside and played decently when healthy last year. Like McKelvin, Corner made his share of "rookie mistakes", but also showed potential and started developing nicely as a nickelback last season. Yes, Greer was a solid NFL CB, but the Bills did not need to pay him starting money to be a nickelback when they could pay guys who have the ability to be solid NFL nickelbacks what a nickelback is supposed to be paid in the NFL. By doing what they did, they are able to put more money into addressing other needs at other positions (consider this: the $ 3 million difference between what they reportedly offered Greer and what they gave to Florence covers almost half of what they gave to T.Owens, allowing them to offer $ 3 million more to Peters or to sign other FAs).

Now to your comments about Gonzales and Peppers:
They went after Gonzales late last year and he emphatically refused to come to Buffalo and Peppers, who Carolina desperately wants to keep, has said that he only wants to go to teams that play a 3-4 defense and will only consider accepting a trade to one of four teams, three in the NFC and only one in the AFC--the Bills do not play a 3-4 defense and you can bet that they are not the one AFC team.

So, why should the Bills waste their time trying to acquire either one of them? Neither one wants to play for the Bills.

What do you think that the Bills are supposed to do? Put a gun to their heads and force them to sign on with the team?

I'm not say that to you as a joke. I'm serious.

You are constantly writing posts complaining that the Bills don't go after this guy or that guy that you think will help the team. Now, you may be right that some of them would help the team. But, some of them, like Gonzales, don't want to come to Buffalo: whether it is because they don't like the organization, don't like the team's chances, don't like the coaches or the system or the guys they would have to play with, don't like the weather, don't like the money, or--have you ever considered this--they just don't like Buffalo and don't want to have to live there for whatever reason (truth be told, half the members of the BZ who live elsewhere wouldn't go back to Buffalo to live at this point and you know that to be the God's honest truth!). As we listen to national commentators talk about why T.Owens would want to go to a "small-market" like Buffalo and how he will adjust to being in such a "small town", we need to face the fact that for a lot of NFL players, Buffalo is an anonymous backwater where, unless the Bills are loaded and poised to win a SB, they are not going to get the attention that they want or be able to hang out with a lot of "the beautiful people" who will make them celebrities (and help them to make more money off-the-field in advertising deals, television appearances, etc.).

For some players, especially the ones who are already stars with nationally recognized names or celebrity status, it is not just how much money the Bills can pay them, it goes beyond that. It goes to how much they can make off-the-field, what kind of contacts they can make in varous industries, and the effect it will have on their careers after football. And, like it or not, there are a lot of places in the NFL that can offer a star-quality player a lot more than Buffalo can, regardless of how much the Bills are willing to pay them to play.

So, Op, how do you convince a player, like Gonzales, who says that he doesn't want to come to Buffalo to come to the Bills?

The only way that you are going to do it is to put a gun to his head, literally, and force him to sign with the Bills. Are you prepared to take a gun and put it to the head of Gonzales or Peppers?

Well, if you are not, then stop complaining that the Bills haven't made enough of an effort to acquire them. I mean it!

The constant carping that the Bills aren't doing enough to get better because they haven't brought in guys who have said that they don't want to come to Buffalo or that they only want to go to certain teams is foolish and senseless and irritating. Moreover, it undermines your credibility when you make good points--and you do make quite a number of good points in your posts--about the team's deficiencies and where they need to improve in order to become serious title contenders.

I know that you are frustrated and want to get your frustrations off of your chest. Fair enough. But, if you can't be reasonable and realistic in supporting your complaints, it just comes across as constant, senseless whining. And, that is a shame because you do have some good insights and make more than a few reasonable criticisms of the team. But, those arguments get undercut and lost amidst the rest. And, I know that you want them to be heard, understood and even accepted. It's just that they are not going to be when they get lost amongst a lot of unsupported, unrealistic, unreasoned "sounding off". Make sense?

[TedMock]

I think the Bills could get a starting DE, TE, OG and even a FB in the draft. If they do sign Cato, they will start looking better to me.

But, although I'm not as pessimistic as Op, I won't believe they are playoff bound til it's clinched, if ever. But that ain't gonna keep me from enjoying 16 games of being a Bills fan. Or the off-season for a few days if I can.

A rookie OG scares me a bit. I don't think most of the holes are that "gaping," but two are: OG and LB. If we can get decent veteran starters (not all pro, just decent) there the other positions can be had in the draft. I still want an interior OL somewhere in rounds 3-5. I also don't think we're going DE or TE in round one. There are a lot of nice DE's and TE's in the draft, but most are similar and can be had in rounds 2-4 with little to no dropoff in talent. I think Fine is our starting TE this year. There are no Shannon Sharpe's in this year's draft so overreaching would be bad. Realistically, with our WR corp, we probably only need 30-35 catches and 300-350 yards from the TE anyway. The caveat here is we'll need 32 QUALITY catches. Not a bunch of drops, fumbles, etc. I'm talking a sure handed 7 yard reception on 3rd and 5. Still very important.

If Raji falls to us in round one we have to take him. I don't see how we couldn't. If Sanchez, Crabtree or Maybin falls to us, we absolutely have to try like heck to move down. Not saying that we're guaranteed a partner, but we need to be on the horn for 14 minutes and 30 seconds. Sanchez falling is the most realistic shot. This draft is loaded with 2-5 round talent that fits our needs, so more picks we can get in that range the better. There just isn't a lot of round one talent that fit our holes.

If we are stuck at 11 and Raji is gone, Orakpo is the only DE I would entertain that high, but I'm assuming he's gone too, I honestly think we take the best linebacker available. We do have the luxury of Poz who can play in or out, so at that point it's a matter of opinion as to who's the best overall playmaker. A top LB this year is worth 11. Pettigrew is not. Maybin is not. Ayers is not. etc. I like all of them very much, just not at 11.

[psubills62]

so, at this point in FA, we're going to find a DE, LG, Backup C who can maybe compete for the starting job, OLB, and TE? Who are we going to find, especially when the Bills have summarily dismissed the best DE and TE on the market?

We could pretty easily fill those holes you mentioned in the draft and free agency, and here's the possible rounds we could use to fill those needs:

DE: draft, rounds 1-3
LG: draft, rounds 2-5
Backup C: rounds 4-6
OLB: free agency
TE: draft, rounds 1-4

So four positions in 6 rounds...shouldn't be THAT hard to do. I think your definition of "gaping hole" and mine are a little different. We certainly have a gaping hole at LG, because there's no starter. But gaping hole at DE? We have our best DE coming back from injury, plus two young guys who could be taught by our new DL coach, who has typically done a very good job maximizing the potential of young DE's.

Come on, Op...from what I've heard, 31 other teams have summarily dismissed the best DE and TE on the market up to this point as well. This is ridiculous. You dismiss the one big signing they make and whine that they didn't make MORE. Seriously...

[bflobarry]

We could pretty easily fill those holes you mentioned in the draft and free agency, and here's the possible rounds we could use to fill those needs:

DE: draft, rounds 1-3
LG: draft, rounds 2-5
Backup C: rounds 4-6
OLB: free agency
TE: draft, rounds 1-4

So four positions in 6 rounds...shouldn't be THAT hard to do. I think your definition of "gaping hole" and mine are a little different. We certainly have a gaping hole at LG, because there's no starter. But gaping hole at DE? We have our best DE coming back from injury, plus two young guys who could be taught by our new DL coach, who has typically done a very good job maximizing the potential of young DE's.

Come on, Op...from what I've heard, 31 other teams have summarily dismissed the best DE and TE on the market up to this point as well. This is ridiculous. You dismiss the one big signing they make and whine that they didn't make MORE. Seriously...
Yea, lot's of teams get 4 rookie starters in one draft....Not. One w/b normal.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Florence isn't even as good as Greer- that position was downgraded this season. We have plenty of depth at CB with McKelvin, Youboty and Corner. We needed a starter, not depth.

Whether Fitzpatrick is better than Losman is debatable, but regardless he hopefully won't be on the field anyway. Even if he's significantly better (which he isn't), it won't make much better.

How do you figure that Hangartner is an upgrade? He was a back-up in Carolina and has a lot to prove.

As far as Cato, he's old but he would be an upgrade over Ellison. But he's not here yet. With this FO, I don't believe anything until it actually happens. And they still haven't done anything about DE, which is by far our biggest need.

What evidence do you have to support the opinion that Greer is better than Florence? Florence has had several productive seasons. It looks as if the season in Jacksonville was an anamoly. Also, McKelvin was looking like the better CB by the end of the season and Greer would not supplant McGee either. We now have someone with more size than Greer, who has more productive seasons than Greer, and fits the nickel position better than Greer, yet in your eyes it's a downgrade.

True, there is no solid evidence to support that Hangartner is an upgrade. However, several sources say he was effective when he played and is a back up to a very good center. How many sources will tell you that Fowler and Preston were effective? So, I can't argue

Other than Peppers, there is no one out there who can provide an upgrade at DE. What is your other proposal other than to draft one?

[psubills62]

Yea, lot's of teams get 4 rookie starters in one draft....Not. One w/b normal.

Did I say they'd all be starters, genius? I think the one specifically said "backup C." Do you really think that no matter who we got at DE, they'd be starting this season? And the only guy I'd consider a starter at TE is Pettigrew. Fine can start for a year at least, he's good enough.

So...we'd only need one starter (LG). The others can contribute as depth.

[OpIv37]

We could pretty easily fill those holes you mentioned in the draft and free agency, and here's the possible rounds we could use to fill those needs:

DE: draft, rounds 1-3
LG: draft, rounds 2-5
Backup C: rounds 4-6
OLB: free agency
TE: draft, rounds 1-4

So four positions in 6 rounds...shouldn't be THAT hard to do. I think your definition of "gaping hole" and mine are a little different. We certainly have a gaping hole at LG, because there's no starter. But gaping hole at DE? We have our best DE coming back from injury, plus two young guys who could be taught by our new DL coach, who has typically done a very good job maximizing the potential of young DE's.

Come on, Op...from what I've heard, 31 other teams have summarily dismissed the best DE and TE on the market up to this point as well. This is ridiculous. You dismiss the one big signing they make and whine that they didn't make MORE. Seriously...

First, I didn't dismiss the TO signing. I said it was a good signing. But if we can't block for Edwards, it's not going to matter much.

Second, I think you're overrating Schobel. The DL sucked when he played and was absolutely pathetic when he didn't play. On a scale of 1-10, Schobel brings the pash rush from a 2 to about a 4.5. That's still not good enough.

Third, you're expecting too much from the draft. Remember what happened when we drafted a DE in the 3rd round last year? How much did he help? (And for the record, I defended the Ellis pick at the time). And a rookie starting LG with an unproven C and an unproven QB? I don't think that's going to get the job done either.

Fourth, what OLB are we going to get in FA? Keiaho? June? They're better than Ellison, but that's like saying "A Datsun is better than a Yugo." They'll help but I don't see either one being a huge difference-maker.

[DBrown77]

Peppers is not looking for $$. Carolina gave him an offer to be the highest paid DE in NFL history and he declined last offseason. Peppers is an odd person. he likes to get lost in the shadows. He wants to go to a big market team where he can get lost. People have seen him in the Gym down here and he puts a towel over his head so you dont notice him.

On a side note Carolina is cap strapped and has to unload him. people are not offering anything because they KNOW Carolina has to get rid of him and his stock will drop because Carolina is getting deperate. I can almost guarantee you Peppers will unfortunately go to the patriots since they have 2 1st round pics and i believe 2 second round pics. I believe the Pats are one of the teams he wants to play for too

[Goobylal]

Peppers is not looking for $$. Carolina gave him an offer to be the highest paid DE in NFL history and he declined last offseason. Peppers is an odd person. he likes to get lost in the shadows. He wants to go to a big market team where he can get lost. People have seen him in the Gym down here and he puts a towel over his head so you dont notice him.

On a side note Carolina is cap strapped and has to unload him. people are not offering anything because they KNOW Carolina has to get rid of him and his stock will drop because Carolina is getting deperate. I can almost guarantee you Peppers will unfortunately go to the patriots since they have 2 1st round pics and i believe 2 second round pics. I believe the Pats are one of the teams he wants to play for too
The Pats have a 1st round pick and 3-2nd rounders. And I doubt they trade him, especially at this late stage of the game, with the top guys gone. Who do they think they'll be able to sign in FA, or draft, to replace Peppers?

[DBrown77]

The Pats have a 1st round pick and 3-2nd rounders. And I doubt they trade him, especially at this late stage of the game, with the top guys gone. Who do they think they'll be able to sign in FA, or draft, to replace Peppers?I know what your saying but he has openly said he does not want to play in Carolina anymore. He could sit out too, although it wouldn't be smart. Carolina also gave up their 1st round pick last year to move up and draft Jeff Otah. they need a 1st rounder.

[Goobylal]

I know what your saying but he has openly said he does not want to play in Carolina anymore. He could sit out too, although it wouldn't be smart. Carolina also gave up their 1st round pick last year to move up and draft Jeff Otah. they need a 1st rounder.
The Pats have the 23rd pick in the draft. There is no impact player the Panthers can draft there to replace Peppers. And Peppers said that if he's kept by the Panthers, he won't create waves. Plus I'm hoping the Panthers remember their loss to the Pats in the SB and refuse to deal with them.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

OpIv and BfloBarry are right about not expecting too much from the draft.

Very few players are ready to step into a NFL lineup and start as a rookie unless the team that drafts them is really poor or hurting for talent at that position--and it is a lot harder at some positions than others no matter how talented the player is.

If you are lucky enough to get a top-flight talent or, at certain positions, have a big enough need, he may be able to step into the starting lineup by mid-season--some earlier than that, but by about mid-season. In more than a few cases, it will take until 2/3 or 3/4 of the season before even a top talent can play well enough to start.

A lot of first rounders, many second rounders and probably most third round picks can take at least a year of seasoning as a back-up before they are able to give their team solid, consistent, quality play at their position. Because the biggest jump in development takes place between a player's first and second year in the league, most first day picks (Rounds 1-3) should be able to take that step after one season, although there are some positions that just take longer to learn (big WRs, DTs and most offensive lineman can be expected to take until their third year to develop and QBs and DEs may also).

While there are a couple of centers in this draft who are projected to be able to start their rookie seasons (Mack and Ungar), it is likely that whoever the Bills draft at that position will end up spending the season as a back-up while he develops.

The Bills' need for a starting LG is going to have to be filled by a veteran who can hold down the position for at least the better part of this season (if the Bills are able to get a rookie who develops fast). They have acknowledged that they understand this by making inquiries about Waters and having Simmons and Bentley in for visits. The fact that they have not yet signed a FA yet to fill the spot does not mean that they don't intend to acquire a veteran who will. (BTW: The Bears just cut OG Metcalf today, adding another veteran option, although perhaps a lesser one).

Similarly, if the Bills draft a DE at # 11, I would not expect him to be able to start this season. However, what a rookie DE might be able to do is add something as a situational pass rusher this season. And, that could help the Bills because their pass rush was so anemic without Schobel last season.

Nor do I think that any rookie that they draft at TE will step into the starting lineup at the beginning of the season, either. However, because they really don't have much depth at the position, a quality rookie--and there are several in this draft--could step in and contribute situationally this season, much as Fine did once he got over his injury last year, and might be able to start at some point in the second half of the season. A receiving TE can help the team simply because the don't have many good other options and one who is well rounded could potentially supplant Fine as the starter as the season wears on if he develops quickly (which I'm not counting on).

While there may be some positions where the Bills could draft a player who could possibly start right away (LB being one of them), I'm not counting on the Bills being able to get any starters out of this draft. What I do think that they can get from this draft are players who will be able to contribute things as rookies that the Bills need to become a better team this season than they were last.

By the same token, however, I think that the Bills should expect to get more this season than they got from some of the rookies that they brought in last season--and, if they do, that could help to address some of their needs and make them a better team. Improvement from Chris Ellis could help to address the Bills' need for a pass rusher (will it be enough, it's hard to say right now). Demetrius Bell could free up Kirk Chambers to be a back-up at OG as well as OT, if Bell can take over Chambers' role as the primary back-up at both OT spots. Improvement by Steve Johnson could push Parrish and Reed and give the Bills additional options in the red zone and in 5 WR sets. The same could be said of Hardy, although I think his injury will set him back. And, then, there are the two CBs, McKelvin and Corner, who got lots of playing time last year and should be expected to be even better this season.

These are the players that I am expecting to step up and help to make the Bills a better team this season. If the Bills can get some additional situational contributions from their rookies, so much the better. They should get some, but it would be foolish, IMHO, to expect the draft to provide saviours or even starters this season.

That's why the Bills will still have to make some additions in free agency and Russ Brandon has said that they are not done yet. Now it will depend on what they are able to do.

[psubills62]

First, I didn't dismiss the TO signing. I said it was a good signing. But if we can't block for Edwards, it's not going to matter much.

Second, I think you're overrating Schobel. The DL sucked when he played and was absolutely pathetic when he didn't play. On a scale of 1-10, Schobel brings the pash rush from a 2 to about a 4.5. That's still not good enough.

Third, you're expecting too much from the draft. Remember what happened when we drafted a DE in the 3rd round last year? How much did he help? (And for the record, I defended the Ellis pick at the time). And a rookie starting LG with an unproven C and an unproven QB? I don't think that's going to get the job done either.

Fourth, what OLB are we going to get in FA? Keiaho? June? They're better than Ellison, but that's like saying "A Datsun is better than a Yugo." They'll help but I don't see either one being a huge difference-maker.

I personally think that people don't seem to remember how terrible Dockery was. Yeah, our center hasn't proven much, but he did play decently when he started, which is better than what Fowler or Preston could claim. At this point, I see Hangartner as an upgrade at C, and I see almost any rookie(s) that we get for the OG spot as upgrades over Dockery. Peters should improve, so I don't see us allowed nearly as many sacks this year.

I'm not overrated Schobel. The DL did pretty well against Seattle. Granted, it was only one game, but Schobel only played what, 4 games or so last season? I'd also like to see what Sanders can do with Ellis and Copeland Bryan. Not to mention that just because Ellis didn't do much his first year doesn't mean another third-rounder wouldn't. What if we had gotten Cliff Avril in the third round last year, instead of Detroit picking him? He had 5 sacks for them.

At this point, we're stuck with our unproven QB and C, and there isn't a stud out there at OG, unless KC is actually interested in trading Waters, and I doubt that. Hangartner has been in the league for a while, so while he's relatively unproven as a starter, he's been around enough to be able to help a rookie OG, and Peters could help a rookie OG too (or Walker, if Butler moves to LG).

Either Keiaho or June would be upgrades over Ellison. I really don't see anything wrong with bringing them in as starters.

So, let me know if I'm reading this right: you admit that most of these guys would be upgrades over what we had last year, but you want much better upgrades in the form of a stud at various positions? Just curious if I'm understanding you correctly.

[OpIv37]

I personally think that people don't seem to remember how terrible Dockery was. Yeah, our center hasn't proven much, but he did play decently when he started, which is better than what Fowler or Preston could claim. At this point, I see Hangartner as an upgrade at C, and I see almost any rookie(s) that we get for the OG spot as upgrades over Dockery. Peters should improve, so I don't see us allowed nearly as many sacks this year.

I'm not overrated Schobel. The DL did pretty well against Seattle. Granted, it was only one game, but Schobel only played what, 4 games or so last season? I'd also like to see what Sanders can do with Ellis and Copeland Bryan. Not to mention that just because Ellis didn't do much his first year doesn't mean another third-rounder wouldn't. What if we had gotten Cliff Avril in the third round last year, instead of Detroit picking him? He had 5 sacks for them.

At this point, we're stuck with our unproven QB and C, and there isn't a stud out there at OG, unless KC is actually interested in trading Waters, and I doubt that. Hangartner has been in the league for a while, so while he's relatively unproven as a starter, he's been around enough to be able to help a rookie OG, and Peters could help a rookie OG too (or Walker, if Butler moves to LG).

Either Keiaho or June would be upgrades over Ellison. I really don't see anything wrong with bringing them in as starters.

So, let me know if I'm reading this right: you admit that most of these guys would be upgrades over what we had last year, but you want much better upgrades in the form of a stud at various positions? Just curious if I'm understanding you correctly.

I agree that Dock was terrible last year, but I don't see a yet-to-be-named rookie as better, at least not at the start of the season. Read LBF's post- it takes time for rookies to develop. If we're lucky, an OG that we draft will be better than Dockery after 1/2 or 3/4 of the season, but in the meantime we're in trouble.

So maybe Hangartner is a modest upgrade over Preston/Fowler, and maybe Keiaho or June are mild upgrades over Ellison, but did you watch this team last year? We managed 3 points at home against SF, and lost to Cleveland at home on national TV. We were dominated by the rest of the division, including the Brady-less Pats, a Dolphins team coming off a 1-15 effort and a Jets team that canned their coach after the season. We only beat one playoff team (SD), and lost to every team that had a winning record (SD finished with a .500 record).

Modest upgrades aren't going to do the trick. And for that matter, we don't even have Keiaho or June yet, so let's not get too excited about putting Ellison's ass on the bench (where it belongs) until it actually happens. On paper, we lost one starter on D and gained a back up, so that's a downgrade. On paper, we upgraded WR, possibly upgraded C (IMO probably not, but I'll give it to you for the sake of argument), and downgraded LG (because we haven't found a replacement yet).

It's really difficult to see how this team is any better than it was last year, other than TO. Plus, we have a more difficult schedule and have to play 4 games without Lynch. Do you really think a few modest upgrades and some rookies can overcome that?

And btw, on a semi-related note regarding the draft: people seem to forget that all 32 teams get to draft as well. That means the 3 teams in our division that were better than us can also use the draft to improve. So, I really don't understand how we're supposed to close the talent gap with the draft when our opponents get to use the draft too.

[OpIv37]

OpIv and BfloBarry are right about not expecting too much from the draft.

Very few players are ready to step into a NFL lineup and start as a rookie unless the team that drafts them is really poor or hurting for talent at that position--and it is a lot harder at some positions than others no matter how talented the player is.

If you are lucky enough to get a top-flight talent or, at certain positions, have a big enough need, he may be able to step into the starting lineup by mid-season--some earlier than that, but by about mid-season. In more than a few cases, it will take until 2/3 or 3/4 of the season before even a top talent can play well enough to start.

A lot of first rounders, many second rounders and probably most third round picks can take at least a year of seasoning as a back-up before they are able to give their team solid, consistent, quality play at their position. Because the biggest jump in development takes place between a player's first and second year in the league, most first day picks (Rounds 1-3) should be able to take that step after one season, although there are some positions that just take longer to learn (big WRs, DTs and most offensive lineman can be expected to take until their third year to develop and QBs and DEs may also).

While there are a couple of centers in this draft who are projected to be able to start their rookie seasons (Mack and Ungar), it is likely that whoever the Bills draft at that position will end up spending the season as a back-up while he develops.

The Bills' need for a starting LG is going to have to be filled by a veteran who can hold down the position for at least the better part of this season (if the Bills are able to get a rookie who develops fast). They have acknowledged that they understand this by making inquiries about Waters and having Simmons and Bentley in for visits. The fact that they have not yet signed a FA yet to fill the spot does not mean that they don't intend to acquire a veteran who will. (BTW: The Bears just cut OG Metcalf today, adding another veteran option, although perhaps a lesser one).

Similarly, if the Bills draft a DE at # 11, I would not expect him to be able to start this season. However, what a rookie DE might be able to do is add something as a situational pass rusher this season. And, that could help the Bills because their pass rush was so anemic without Schobel last season.

Nor do I think that any rookie that they draft at TE will step into the starting lineup at the beginning of the season, either. However, because they really don't have much depth at the position, a quality rookie--and there are several in this draft--could step in and contribute situationally this season, much as Fine did once he got over his injury last year, and might be able to start at some point in the second half of the season. A receiving TE can help the team simply because the don't have many good other options and one who is well rounded could potentially supplant Fine as the starter as the season wears on if he develops quickly (which I'm not counting on).

While there may be some positions where the Bills could draft a player who could possibly start right away (LB being one of them), I'm not counting on the Bills being able to get any starters out of this draft. What I do think that they can get from this draft are players who will be able to contribute things as rookies that the Bills need to become a better team this season than they were last.

By the same token, however, I think that the Bills should expect to get more this season than they got from some of the rookies that they brought in last season--and, if they do, that could help to address some of their needs and make them a better team. Improvement from Chris Ellis could help to address the Bills' need for a pass rusher (will it be enough, it's hard to say right now). Demetrius Bell could free up Kirk Chambers to be a back-up at OG as well as OT, if Bell can take over Chambers' role as the primary back-up at both OT spots. Improvement by Steve Johnson could push Parrish and Reed and give the Bills additional options in the red zone and in 5 WR sets. The same could be said of Hardy, although I think his injury will set him back. And, then, there are the two CBs, McKelvin and Corner, who got lots of playing time last year and should be expected to be even better this season.

These are the players that I am expecting to step up and help to make the Bills a better team this season. If the Bills can get some additional situational contributions from their rookies, so much the better. They should get some, but it would be foolish, IMHO, to expect the draft to provide saviours or even starters this season.

That's why the Bills will still have to make some additions in free agency and Russ Brandon has said that they are not done yet. Now it will depend on what they are able to do.

great post.

One minor correction: they re-formatted the draft last year. Only rounds 1-2 are on the first day. Rounds 3-7 are on the 2nd day. Of course, I still know what you mean by "first day picks"- there is a huge drop off between 3rd rounders and 4th rounders.

[psubills62]

I agree that Dock was terrible last year, but I don't see a yet-to-be-named rookie as better, at least not at the start of the season. Read LBF's post- it takes time for rookies to develop. If we're lucky, an OG that we draft will be better than Dockery after 1/2 or 3/4 of the season, but in the meantime we're in trouble.

So maybe Hangartner is a modest upgrade over Preston/Fowler, and maybe Keiaho or June are mild upgrades over Ellison, but did you watch this team last year? We managed 3 points at home against SF, and lost to Cleveland at home on national TV. We were dominated by the rest of the division, including the Brady-less Pats, a Dolphins team coming off a 1-15 effort and a Jets team that canned their coach after the season. We only beat one playoff team (SD), and lost to every team that had a winning record (SD finished with a .500 record).

Modest upgrades aren't going to do the trick. And for that matter, we don't even have Keiaho or June yet, so let's not get too excited about putting Ellison's ass on the bench (where it belongs) until it actually happens. On paper, we lost one starter on D and gained a back up, so that's a downgrade. On paper, we upgraded WR, possibly upgraded C (IMO probably not, but I'll give it to you for the sake of argument), and downgraded LG (because we haven't found a replacement yet).

It's really difficult to see how this team is any better than it was last year, other than TO. Plus, we have a more difficult schedule and have to play 4 games without Lynch. Do you really think a few modest upgrades and some rookies can overcome that?

And btw, on a semi-related note regarding the draft: people seem to forget that all 32 teams get to draft as well. That means the 3 teams in our division that were better than us can also use the draft to improve. So, I really don't understand how we're supposed to close the talent gap with the draft when our opponents get to use the draft too.

I agree that it takes rookies a little while to learn, but I'd consider OL one of the easier areas for a rookie to jump into and start. There were a lot of OT's that started as rookies last year. I also believe that Indy started three rookies on their OL at times last year. I don't expect a rookie to be All-World, but I do expect a rookie OG to be serviceable.

Honestly, if we go into the draft without a starting LG, I wouldn't be surprised to see them draft Michael Oher or Andre Smith at 11 to play at OG. That or get someone in the second round. Not many strict OG's go in the first, so we could easily get a top OG in the second or third round. Feel free to ask DB about it - he's even comfortable with us using a rookie OC if need be.

Pretty much every game you mentioned, with the exception of a few, we were right in it until the end. With every one of those games, one or two things here or there throughout the course of the game would have turned it into a win. Do we need more talent? Yes, but maybe adding TD's in the form of Owens would push us over the edge in 2-3 of those games (e.g. Cleveland, SF).

I'm also counting on Peters improving over his 2008 form, and I believe Edwards will improve somewhat.

I agree, it's tough to close the talent gap like this. But look at what Miami did last year by signing mostly JAGs that turned out to be good. They signed pretty much zero big names last year and went from 1-15 to 11-5. I know you have zero trust in our FO to bring in talent, but they've made some decent decisions, and I trust that they'll fill at least one or two more holes before the draft.

[OpIv37]

Peters should definitely improve- holding out hurt him last year, and there were moments when his dominant form still showed. If he gets a full off-season in him, he should be better.

I'm not sold on Edwards, but throwing to TO and Lee should make his job easier. He could play in the league for another 15 years, and this will be the best WR duo he'll ever get. So it's now or never. We just need to do SOMETHING about the OL to give him a fighting chance.

[Goobylal]

Pretty much every game you mentioned, with the exception of a few, we were right in it until the end. With every one of those games, one or two things here or there throughout the course of the game would have turned it into a win. Do we need more talent? Yes, but maybe adding TD's in the form of Owens would push us over the edge in 2-3 of those games (e.g. Cleveland, SF).
Bingo. Despite Schobel playing just 4 games and taking the pass-rush with him, Crowell pulling that stunt, and the Bills losing Youboty and Greer for a bunch of games, not to mention the Bills' offense putting them in horrible spots, the Bills' defense did an admirable job in most of the games. Figure the Bills will get better on defense by having Schobel back, upgrading Ellison, and adding more talent through the draft, plus Owens on offense, and things should be a lot better this year.

As for the rest of the division, the Dols will need to count on Pennington doing what he's never done, and staying healthy and/or good for the entire year. The Jets no longer have Favre. The Patriots are fading. So it's not like every other team improved +/- the Bills didn't.

[psubills62]

Peters should definitely improve- holding out hurt him last year, and there were moments when his dominant form still showed. If he gets a full off-season in him, he should be better.

I'm not sold on Edwards, but throwing to TO and Lee should make his job easier. He could play in the league for another 15 years, and this will be the best WR duo he'll ever get. So it's now or never. We just need to do SOMETHING about the OL to give him a fighting chance.

Definitely agree. I don't know how good Peters will be over the whole season, but I've GOT to believe that he'll be a good deal better than last year, especially if he has someone better playing next to him.

I'm not entirely sold on Edwards yet either, but I'm really rooting for the kid. I think he's got the ability, but is he going to show flashes and drop off, like John McCargo, or is he going to grow into the model of good consistency? I don't know, but I do agree that this year is his chance to show one way or the other.

[acehole]

Plus, the TO effect will make Schouman and Fine look better


TA ta ta...one has nothing to do with the other according to you...

[Spiderweb]

Not going after Peppers. Not going after Gonzo. We have positions of need and there are very talented players out there whom the Bills are ignoring.
Jeez....Peppers will want a smalf fotune and doesn't want to be 4-3 DE anymore. Gonzo already made it clear last year that he did not want to come to Buffalo, and we were 5-1 at the time .........or thereabouts.

Scratch these two guys and move on.

[OpIv37]

Jeez....Peppers will want a smalf fotune and doesn't want to be 4-3 DE anymore. Gonzo already made it clear last year that he did not want to come to Buffalo, and we were 5-1 at the time .........or thereabouts.

Scratch these two guys and move on.

Move on to who? Move on to what? So far Buffalo has brought in ONE DE- Jason Babin- and the guy averages 2.5 sacks a year. He's no better than Kelsay. And I can't recall one TE that's been brought in so far. If the Bills were at least trying to do something about these positions, then I'd give you that. But they summarily dismissed the two best players available at 2 positions of need and haven't even tried to find anyone else. Between Evans, TO and both Fine and Schouman showing some promise, I suppose we could probably skate by at TE if we had to. But if this team doesn't get a pass-rushing DE in here, it's going to be a LONG season.

[Dr. Lecter]

Which pass rushing DE that was a FA should have they brought in?

[OpIv37]

Which pass rushing DE that was a FA should have they brought in?

I don't know- I was out of town when FA started and I don't have time to research these things.

If your implication is that there are no FA DE's available, that gives the Bills two options: Go after Peppers, or have the same ****ty pass rush as last year.