Are the Bills about to trade one problem for another?

[OpIv37]

There are several indications that the Bills are finally pursuing a LG to replace Dockery. Right now, this is arguably the biggest hole on the team, and signing a vet LG is necessary to allow Trent, TO and Lee to be productive.

But at the same time, the Peters trade talk has resurfaced. If we trade Peters, then we just added a hole at LT to replace the one we are presumably about to fill at LG. Kirk Chambers was adequate filling in at RT last year (with Walker holding his own at LT), but this is a much stronger line with Peters at LT and Walker at RT.

It seems like it's always 1 step forward, two steps backwards for the Bills. Trading Peters is a BAD idea, especially if we fail to acquire a LG.

[The Jokeman]

It seems like it's always 1 step forward, two steps backwards for the Bills. Trading Peters is a BAD idea, especially if we fail to acquire a LG.
I agree with you, as it seems like we like creating holes in the roster with no real plans on fixing them. I admit I don't follow the cap religiously but would it have killed us to keep Dockery and/or Royal until secured a quality replacement before cutting either one?

[Nighthawk]

Very true and the reason that I would hate to see them trade Peters. You can't build a good team if you're always getting rid of your best players.

[Jan Reimers]

No More Holes!

[methos4ever]

The talk is coming from the media, who also didn't think we'd have Lee Evans after there was a gulf around this time with his contract last year. And team(s) like the Eagles that would love for the rift to allow them to trade for him.

Unless a general manager pulls a Reese ala McGahee, I wouldn't worry about it Op.

[X-Era]

There are several indications that the Bills are finally pursuing a LG to replace Dockery. Right now, this is arguably the biggest hole on the team, and signing a vet LG is necessary to allow Trent, TO and Lee to be productive.

But at the same time, the Peters trade talk has resurfaced. If we trade Peters, then we just added a hole at LT to replace the one we are presumably about to fill at LG. Kirk Chambers was adequate filling in at RT last year (with Walker holding his own at LT), but this is a much stronger line with Peters at LT and Walker at RT.

It seems like it's always 1 step forward, two steps backwards for the Bills. Trading Peters is a BAD idea, especially if we fail to acquire a LG.
What indications?

Maybe Kugler called Russ from Ok.

Maybe it went like this:

"Hey Sean is Duke worth the 11 pick?"

"Nope, I dont think so Russ"

And then Russ realized he better get a starting LG for the next year at least.

[Michael82]

The talk is coming from the media, who also didn't think we'd have Lee Evans after there was a gulf around this time with his contract last year. And team(s) like the Eagles that would love for the rift to allow them to trade for him.

Unless a general manager pulls a Reese ala McGahee, I wouldn't worry about it Op.
The key is Peters. With Lee Evans, he still stayed with the team during OTAs, Mini-Camps, and Training Camp. He quietly worked out a new, expensive contract after he showed that he's a team first guy. So far Jason Peters hasn't done that last year. Now if they are serious about giving him what he's worth or maybe even overpaying for him like they did with Lee, they need something from him. He needs to show them and us fans that he will come to camp and the OTAs and not be a distraction. If he does that, I bet that he will get his money...just like Lee did.

[DynaPaul]

I say pay him some money but right now it looks like Peters might want TOO much money especially after his spotty performance last year.

[dasaybz]

Trading Peters is NOT a bad idea if he costs us $11 million/year.

Hell, what ****ing difference has he made when he's been on the field? Our offense has been pathetic since he's been on the team. What's the point in spending all that money on him? It's pretty obvious that an all pro left tackle just doesn't matter that much to our team.

[OpIv37]

Trading Peters is NOT a bad idea if he costs us $11 million/year.

Hell, what ****ing difference has he made when he's been on the field? Our offense has been pathetic since he's been on the team. What's the point in spending all that money on him? It's pretty obvious that an all pro left tackle just doesn't matter that much to our team.

Put Chambers in for 16 games and you'll see what difference it makes. And if we trade Peters and Walker or Chambers gets injured, then you'll REALLY see what difference it makes.

It's not Peters' fault that Parrish can't get open. It's not Peters' fault that our centers last year were both turnstyles who got manhandled by 3-4 NT's. It's not Peters' fault that we don't have a real receiving threat at TE. It's not Peters' fault that Lee can't beat a double team. It's not Peters' fault that Trent Edwards can't deliver the ball consistently. Trust me, Peters was NOT the problem with the offense last year.

And I'm really ****ing sick of the money excuse. Every year, we let good players walk and we fail to pursue big-name free agents, but every year we're $10-15 million below the cap. **** that noise. Spending money just to spend money like Dallas and Washington doesn't work, but letting Pro Bowl players walk over a couple of million clearly doesn't work either.

[ddaryl]

Paying Peters 11.5 million a season with 30 + million guarenteed and only to see him repeat last years on field performance makes me just as ill as the thought of trading him and creating that hole

[mikemac2001]

Put Chambers in for 16 games and you'll see what difference it makes. And if we trade Peters and Walker or Chambers gets injured, then you'll REALLY see what difference it makes.

It's not Peters' fault that Parrish can't get open. It's not Peters' fault that our centers last year were both turnstyles who got manhandled by 3-4 NT's. It's not Peters' fault that we don't have a real receiving threat at TE. It's not Peters' fault that Lee can't beat a double team. It's not Peters' fault that Trent Edwards can't deliver the ball consistently. Trust me, Peters was NOT the problem with the offense last year.

And I'm really ****ing sick of the money excuse. Every year, we let good players walk and we fail to pursue big-name free agents, but every year we're $10-15 million below the cap. **** that noise. Spending money just to spend money like Dallas and Washington doesn't work, but letting Pro Bowl players walk over a couple of million clearly doesn't work either.


Dont really like how you kinda turned all the blame away from peters because he really ****ed himself by holding out ruined unity on the O-line and set himself back

he didnt perform like he should have

but i agree we pay him and cant let him walk

[Michael82]

Paying Peters 11.5 million a season with 30 + million guarenteed and only to see him repeat last years on field performance makes me just as ill as the thought of trading him and creating that hole
Agreed, especially when he has already shown us that he puts himself before the team and is a greedy bastard, who has no problem holding out for the whole entire season, even when it hurts the team. :ill:

[Night Train]

Pissing away roster bonus $$ isn't smart, if your going to replace him anyhow before opening day.

There is no "good timing" in dumping a subpar player. There is plenty of time to replace any of them. Last I checked, we kick off in 6 months.

[TacklingDummy]

It seems like it's always 1 step forward, two steps backwards for the Bills. Trading Peters is a BAD idea, especially if we fail to acquire a LG.There is no reason to trade a player who has 2 years left on his contract. If the Bills want to trade Peters they should do it after this season.

[TacklingDummy]

Paying Peters 11.5 million a season with 30 + million guarenteed and only to see him repeat last years on field performance makes me just as ill as the thought of trading him and creating that hole Not to mention he hasn't played a full season in 3 years.

[TacklingDummy]

It's not Peters' fault that Parrish can't get open. It's not Peters' fault that our centers last year were both turnstyles who got manhandled by 3-4 NT's. It's not Peters' fault that we don't have a real receiving threat at TE. It's not Peters' fault that Lee can't beat a double team. It's not Peters' fault that Trent Edwards can't deliver the ball consistently.

It's not Peters fault that he gave up 11.5 sacks in 14 games, ranking him 31st in the league. It's not Peters fault he held out. It's not Peters fault he was out of shape. It's not Peters fault he was "injured" late in the season again. It's not Peters fault that he renegotiated contract 3 years ago. It's not Peters fault he signed the contract.


Trust me, Peters was NOT the problem with the offense last year. The Bills proved that when Peters didn't play, the line and offense played just as well if not better without him.

[justasportsfan]

we're still trying to fill holes in Dicks 4th year which they created to begin with.Welcome to our 4th year of rebuilding process.

[Mitchell55]

If we trade Peters is better be for a LT and a 2nd rounder.

[justasportsfan]

Trading Peters is NOT a bad idea if he costs us $11 million/year.

Hell, what ****ing difference has he made when he's been on the field? Our offense has been pathetic since he's been on the team. What's the point in spending all that money on him? It's pretty obvious that an all pro left tackle just doesn't matter that much to our team.
last year was his worst year. We can all agree to that.

However , it wasnt his fault that we didn't know how to defend the 3-4. It also wasn't his fault that as the qb said "the D (opponents) gave us looks we didn't practice for all week" . Thats a coaching problem.

If a probowl talent had a rough time, imagine what will happen with a lesser talent. With unproven and what seems to be a clueless coaching staff, you can't get rid of your best players.

I expect Peters to bounce back to top form if everything goes smoothly and he ends up at camp early.

People want to blame him but in the end how much of that problem was his when the coaches cut Dockery?

He struggled but so did the rest of the O and it starts from the top. The coaches.

[FlyingDutchman]

What is this "finally" talk about filling the gaurd position. Its been like 14 days. ohhhh the drama. If Peters didnt act like an idiot and become less productive bc he was acting like an idiot, this would be an open and shut case.

[OpIv37]

What is this "finally" talk about filling the gaurd position. Its been like 14 days. ohhhh the drama. If Peters didnt act like an idiot and become less productive bc he was acting like an idiot, this would be an open and shut case.

Yeah, because other teams aren't signing guards and options are going to materialize out of nowhere :rolleyes:

Look, I have no problem cutting Dock. He sucked ass last year and got paid a lot of money to do it. I do have a problem with the FO cutting a player with no Plan B.

[FlyingDutchman]

Name 3 gaurds that have signed to new teams that youre mad that we didnt get. Go.

[FlyingDutchman]

and how do you know we have no plan B, wasnt this thread started bc plan B seems to be going into effect?

[FlyingDutchman]

Name 3 gaurds that have signed to new teams that youre mad that we didnt get. Go.

:popcorn:

[OpIv37]

and how do you know we have no plan B, wasnt this thread started bc plan B seems to be going into effect?

as of right now, we have no starting left guard. If they have a Plan B, they sure as hell are taking their time implementing it. This FO hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt. Hell, they haven't even brought a LG in for a workout yet. So, at this point I'd say the concern is valid.

Yes, you are right, it does seem like they're FINALLY ready to start looking at guards and that's one of the reasons why I started the thread. But to cut Dock and then just sit on their hands- well, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

[FlyingDutchman]

never answered my question

[FlyingDutchman]

as of right now, we have no starting left guard. If they have a Plan B, they sure as hell are taking their time implementing it. This FO hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt. Hell, they haven't even brought a LG in for a workout yet. So, at this point I'd say the concern is valid.

Yes, you are right, it does seem like they're FINALLY ready to start looking at guards and that's one of the reasons why I started the thread. But to cut Dock and then just sit on their hands- well, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

i was being sarcastic with the finally thing bc you act like its been a long time. its been a couple of weeks. taking their time? they signed one already, so what would you suggest to make you happy. it seems your simply whining for the sake of whining based on previous beefs with the FO. You said theres no plan B, but agreed they seem to be working on something.....

[psubills62]

as of right now, we have no starting left guard. If they have a Plan B, they sure as hell are taking their time implementing it. This FO hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt. Hell, they haven't even brought a LG in for a workout yet. So, at this point I'd say the concern is valid.

Yes, you are right, it does seem like they're FINALLY ready to start looking at guards and that's one of the reasons why I started the thread. But to cut Dock and then just sit on their hands- well, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I thought they brought in Simmons?

I think that as long as we get a first round pick for Peters (note, I'm necessarily saying we should trade him, I'm just fairly open to it), then we have an opportunity to fill the LT position with a first-round pick. While I do agree with Chris Brown in that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, I wouldn't be as concerned if we traded Peters.

So what's the problem if they do take their time? What's the difference between getting Goff or Simmons two weeks ago and getting them now, except that we probably can get them for a better price now?

[OpIv37]

also, I see a lot of revisionist history going on in this thread.

First, Peters did struggle at times last year, but it was because he held out. Yes, I realize it was his choice and he needs to take the blame for that. But we've seen what Peters can do with a full pre-season conditioning regimen. Believe me, if he's in camp from the beginning this year, he'll be a lot better than he was last year.

Second, 11.5 sacks? Says who? How do they know what the blocking schemes were supposed to be? Did they account for sacks where Trent or JP held the ball too long? Everyone on this board (myself included) knocks Schobel for garbage time sacks- I know at least two sacks that Peters gave up last year were late in the 4th when the game was out of hand- were those subtracted from his total?

Third, two years on his contract? So what? He was given RT money and now he's playing LT without a raise. LT is a more difficult position that comes with a lot more pressure. I was hired as analyst at my job. If they promote me to project manager but don't give me a raise, I'd be disgruntled too. He also makes a lot less than other players at his position. Hell, last year he played next to Dockery- Dock made a LOT more money than Peters, then got cut for sucking. How would you feel if the guy in the next cubicle was completely useless but made almost twice as much as you? For the record, I don't like Peters' approach either, but he's well within his rights to be upset about his salary.

[Lexwhat]

Name 3 gaurds that have signed to new teams that youre mad that we didnt get. Go.

What happens when I name 3? Are you going to give 3 excuses?

And by the way, many are Guard / Center hybrids, so I can name either since Hangartner can play either position.

[OpIv37]

i was being sarcastic with the finally thing bc you act like its been a long time. its been a couple of weeks. taking their time? they signed one already, so what would you suggest to make you happy. it seems your simply whining for the sake of whining based on previous beefs with the FO. You said theres no plan B, but agreed they seem to be working on something.....

As of right now, we lost 3 offensive linemen and signed one. That's a -2. Forget about skill for a second- we don't even have enough bodies. The guy we signed wasn't even a starter on his previous team. The Bills haven't even brought in an offensive lineman for a visit. And this FO doesn't exactly have a good record with draft picks OR FA.

So, it's not whining just to whine. There is plenty of reason to be concerned.

[FlyingDutchman]

What happens when I name 3? Are you going to give 3 excuses?

And by the way, many are Guard / Center hybrids, so I can name either since Hangartner can play either position.

go for it. name 3 that youre upset we didnt get that would come in here and start

[FlyingDutchman]

OP why are you still avoiding my question?

[OpIv37]

OP why are you still avoiding my question?

Which question? I don't follow other teams in FA and I'm too lazy to research it, so I don't know what centers or guards have signed with other teams. I just know we still have a glaring hole, and if we sign a G then trade Peters, we still have a glaring hole.

[FlyingDutchman]

ill bet anything you have to google to try to answer my question

[FlyingDutchman]

Which question? I don't follow other teams in FA and I'm too lazy to research it, so I don't know what centers or guards have signed with other teams. I just know we still have a glaring hole, and if we sign a G then trade Peters, we still have a glaring hole.

cop out

[OpIv37]

cop out

call it what you want. It doesn't give us a LG or OL depth.

[FlyingDutchman]

so what youre saying is you know how to complain without knowing what your complaining about or alternatives that could have been used

[FlyingDutchman]

too lazy to do research, but not to lazy to complain about something you seem to know little about

[OpIv37]

so what youre saying is you know how to complain without knowing what your complaing about or alternatives that could have been used

again, lack of available alternatives don't get us a LG. If there are no alternatives, we shouldn't have cut Dock. If there are no alternatives, Trent gets killed, Trent can't get TO the ball, and we keep losing.

That's all there is to it.

[FlyingDutchman]

you claimed you dont have problem cutting dock, and now you do. Is the offseason 3 weeks long? complaining for the sake of complaining.

Thats all there is to it.

[OpIv37]

you claimed you have problem cutting dock, and now you do. Is the offseason 3 weeks long? complaining for the sake of complaining.

Thats all there is to it.

We've been over this many, many times.

I have no problem cutting/not resigning guys like Dock, Fowler, Preston, or if you want to go back farther, Posey, etc.

I have a problem with cutting/not resigning guys then trying to replace them with rookies or the back-ups who weren't good enough to take their spots.

I'm complaining because we have no LG or OL depth protecting an unproven QB. I'm complaining because as of right now, they haven't even brought any guards in for a visit. I'm complaining because there's talk of trading Peters and creating yet ANOTHER hole on the OL.

Maybe that will change in the future- maybe we'll sign a G, maybe we won't trade Peters, maybe we'll work a trade that brings in another quality tackle- who knows? But at this moment, these are perfectly legitimate complaints.

[FlyingDutchman]

we have brought in a guard. we have signed a gaurd. there are more available. there is still the whole draft. there is still free agency. THERE IS STILL THE WHOLE OFFSEASON. you cant name 1 gaurd that youre upset we didnt make an attempt for. last time i checked, peters is still a buffalo bill.

[OpIv37]

we have brought in a guard. we have signed a gaurd. there are more available. there is still the whole draft. there is still free agency. THERE IS STILL THE WHOLE OFFSEASON. you cant name 1 gaurd that youre upset we didnt make an attempt for. last time i checked, peters is still a buffalo bill.

what guard did we sign?

[FlyingDutchman]

hes a hybrid. whatever. youre *****ing about depth and saying the bills are sitting on their hands. its been 3 freakin weeks. give it a rest for once

[OpIv37]

hes a hybrid. whatever. youre *****ing about depth and saying the bills are sitting on their hands. its been 3 freakin weeks. give it a rest for once

So either we have a C and no G or we have a G and no C. Take your ****ing pick- same difference. We're still short two interior offensive linemen. The guy can't play two positions at once.

Right now, there's a hole that will prevent us from winning. So, I'll ***** about it until it's handled. If it's handled, then I'll stop *****ing about it. But until then, my complaint is perfectly legitimate whether you want to hear it or not.

[FlyingDutchman]

one last time, WE ARE 3 WEEKS INTO THE OFFSEASON. youre basing everything off assumptions. complaining just to complain. wouldnt expect anything else from you. ill leave it at that

[OpIv37]

one last time, WE ARE 3 WEEKS INTO THE OFFSEASON. youre basing everything off assumptions. complaining just to complain. wouldnt expect anything else from you. ill leave it at that

what difference does the timing make? We have holes that need to be filled. I don't care if it's one day into the off-season or one day before the season starts. It's still a legitimate complaint.

[FlyingDutchman]

Ok OP, youre right. We are going to go into the season with this exact roster. Not one more change will happen. There will be no offensive lineman added from here to opening day. This is it, so might as well jump off a bridge now. Happy? christ youre rediculous

[OpIv37]

Ok OP, youre right. We are going to go into the season with this exact roster. Not one more change will happen. There will be no offensive lineman added from here to opening day. This is it, so might as well jump off a bridge now. Happy? christ youre rediculous

That's not what I said.

What I said was that there's plenty to complain about with the current roster. Will that roster change? Probably, but until it does, there's reason to complain.

What's ridiculous is that you're assuming this FO will find talent and make moves to obtain that talent. You sit there and think that just because there's time, it means problems will be addressed. Based on what? Do you have a crystal ball? Do you KNOW the roster is going to get better? You don't.

So, I repeat one more time: there are holes on the roster at the moment, and my complaints about them are legitimate. If you don't want to hear it, don't read my posts. That's all I can tell you.

[FlyingDutchman]

Do you ever get tired of yourself? You have issues. Done with this convo.

[Mr. Pink]

I get the premise Op, I really do.

However, did our line really look much different in week 1 than week 15?

In my opinion no.

And I bet in a lot of other people on here's opinion no as well.

[OpIv37]

I get the premise Op, I really do.

However, did our line really look much different in week 1 than week 15?

In my opinion no.

And I bet in a lot of other people on here's opinion no as well.

I see your point but I don't blame that on Peters. Fowler/Preston and Dockery were awful, and Butler was hit or miss. Honestly, I don't see Kirk Chambers as a long term answer and I don't see how we're going to find someone better than him if Peters is traded. Also, Chambers proved himself to be solid depth last year- if we trade Peters and go with Walker at LT and Chambers at RT, then we've lost even MORE depth on the OL.

Right now, the best bet for this OL is to go with Peters- Vet LG- Hangartner-Butler-Walker then draft either an eventual replacement for the vet LG (depending on who it is) or a C who may be able to challenge Hangartner for the starting spot as the season goes on. Even that's a little shaky, and taking Peters out of the equation is just scary.

[Nighthawk]

Agreed, especially when he has already shown us that he puts himself before the team and is a greedy bastard, who has no problem holding out for the whole entire season, even when it hurts the team. :ill:

Are you talking about Peters or our new WR? Do you see what I'm getting at? Premier players have a little bit of an attitude and that is just how it is. Everybody has got to get over their distaste for this guy and think about the effect on the team it would be if we didn't have a real LT.

[dasaybz]

Put Chambers in for 16 games and you'll see what difference it makes. And if we trade Peters and Walker or Chambers gets injured, then you'll REALLY see what difference it makes.

It's not Peters' fault that Parrish can't get open. It's not Peters' fault that our centers last year were both turnstyles who got manhandled by 3-4 NT's. It's not Peters' fault that we don't have a real receiving threat at TE. It's not Peters' fault that Lee can't beat a double team. It's not Peters' fault that Trent Edwards can't deliver the ball consistently. Trust me, Peters was NOT the problem with the offense last year.

And I'm really ****ing sick of the money excuse. Every year, we let good players walk and we fail to pursue big-name free agents, but every year we're $10-15 million below the cap. **** that noise. Spending money just to spend money like Dallas and Washington doesn't work, but letting Pro Bowl players walk over a couple of million clearly doesn't work either.

Isn't it OBVIOUS that we have major holes all over the place. Why the hell would you spend that money on 1 guy that doesn't even make that big of a difference?

It makes no sense at all.

[Throne Logic]

It seems like it's always 1 step forward, two steps backwards for the Bills. Trading Peters is a BAD idea, especially if we fail to acquire a LG.

But consider this. If Peter's sits out until opening day again, what's the difference? If Walker played on the left last year, he'd have been able to match the rusty out-of-sync performances put up by Peters.

I don't want to trade a properly conditioned Peters who participates in all training related activities. I don't really care if we trade the Peters we got last year - good ridence - mediocre to average talent is available via the draft.

I'm certainly not in favor of paying him money for a top contract he, in my opinion, has not earned.

[psubills62]

Are you talking about Peters or our new WR? Do you see what I'm getting at? Premier players have a little bit of an attitude and that is just how it is. Everybody has got to get over their distaste for this guy and think about the effect on the team it would be if we didn't have a real LT.

When was the last time T.O. held out of training camp?

I'm sorry, but attitude is a confidence you carry yourself with on the field. Attitude does not mean sitting at home sulking because you don't think you're paid enough. Huge difference between T.O. and Peters. Enormous difference...

[Michael82]

Are you talking about Peters or our new WR? Do you see what I'm getting at? Premier players have a little bit of an attitude and that is just how it is. Everybody has got to get over their distaste for this guy and think about the effect on the team it would be if we didn't have a real LT.
Sorry, but I would not give him anymore than $10 million. If he thinks that he should be the highest paid OL and thinks turns down $10 million and keeps asking for $12 million, then he can go **** himself.

Besides, the team loves Bell. They see a guy that has the potential to be as good as Peters or maybe better. Maybe the thing to do is....try to get Peters locked up long term for a fair price ($10 million is the most I'd go) and if he won't...trade him and then try Bell at RT, while Walker goes to LT.

[justasportsfan]

Sorry, but I would not give him anymore than $10 million. If he thinks that he should be the highest paid OL and thinks turns down $10 million and keeps asking for $12 million, then he can go **** himself.

Besides, the team loves Bell. They see a guy that has the potential to be as good as Peters or maybe better. Maybe the thing to do is....try to get Peters locked up long term for a fair price ($10 million is the most I'd go) and if he won't...trade him and then try Bell at RT, while Walker goes to LT.

the team also loved Dockery, Wilson , McCargo and Kelsay.

For a team thats supposedly desperate for talent, I'd rather overpay for Peters instead of Kelsay

Some people even think Aaron is overpaid too.mIght as well trade him away too and create more holes.

[Nighthawk]

When was the last time T.O. held out of training camp?

I'm sorry, but attitude is a confidence you carry yourself with on the field. Attitude does not mean sitting at home sulking because you don't think you're paid enough. Huge difference between T.O. and Peters. Enormous difference...

How many times did Bruce Smith show up for camp? Oh, that's right...not many and why is that? Oh yeah, because he always wanted more money.

[psubills62]

How many times did Bruce Smith show up for camp? Oh, that's right...not many and why is that? Oh yeah, because he always wanted more money.

We weren't talking about Bruce Smith, we were talking about T.O. and Peters.

Smith didn't show up to camp, but he always performed. Peters didn't show up to camp and he stunk...there's no excuse. If Peters could skip camp and come out and dominate, almost no one would have a problem with it. But when he hurts the team with his crappy holdout, then it's his own dang fault.