Bills Fans are Getting Disillusioned

[Lexwhat]

1. I'm surprised that most people here have no clue about how the salary cap works. If we sign Peters to, let's say, a 6-year deal worth $65 million, we can easily front-load the deal and still have plenty of room to work with. The Bills always have lots of unused cap room, and don't do crap with it. Whoever handles our salary cap in our front office isn't very bright.

ASK CLUMP.

2. People talk about "I don't want to overpay." Well, that's reality in today's NFL. If we have idle cap space and extra money, what's wrong with spending it on one of our elite players?? Would you rather have Ralph pocket the money??!!

3. Lee Evans got a deal averaging $9.3 million per year, and will probably see every penny. Most would argue that he's overpaid. Why wouldn't Jason Peters be worth more than that?

4. Why is it okay for the Bills to overpay for Dockery / Schobel / Kelsey, but not Peters?

5. If we won't pay Peters, someone else will. For some reason, many of you guys think that Peters is overrated. However, there are probably at least 5 NFL teams willing to overpay Peters AND give us draft picks (even the Eagles, a talented team, who just signed a RT). Doesn't that say anything?

6a. Enough about Pittsburgh. Max Starks is no slouch, and just because you don't hear his name much, doesn't mean he's not a good player. Willie Colon & Max Starks are a LOT better than Kirk Chambers & Langston Walker.

6b. Mike Gandy?? Doesn't anyone realize that if the Cardinals had a pro-bowl LT to neutralize James Harrison, they probably would have won the Super Bowl?

7. If we trade Peters, our chance of getting another equally-talented LT is about 25%. And even then, with the amount of time it takes to develop LTs, we will really be taking a few steps backwards.


In conclusion, if Peters is traded, hope you guys (whoever doesn't want to pay him) enjoy another terrible running game and seeing Trent Edwards on his back half the time.

[Mahdi]

1. I'm surprised that most people here have no clue about how the salary cap works. If we sign Peters to, let's say, a 6-year deal worth $65 million, we can easily front-load the deal and still have plenty of room to work with. The Bills always have lots of unused cap room, and don't do crap with it. Whoever handles our salary cap in our front office isn't very bright.

ASK CLUMP.

2. People talk about "I don't want to overpay." Well, that's reality in today's NFL. If we have idle cap space and extra money, what's wrong with spending it on one of our elite players?? Would you rather have Ralph pocket the money??!!

3. Lee Evans got a deal averaging $9.3 million per year, and will probably see every penny. Most would argue that he's overpaid. Why wouldn't Jason Peters be worth more than that?

4. Why is it okay for the Bills to overpay for Dockery / Schobel / Kelsey, but not Peters?

5. If we won't pay Peters, someone else will. For some reason, many of you guys think that Peters is overrated. However, there are probably at least 5 NFL teams willing to overpay Peters AND give us draft picks (even the Eagles, a talented team, who just signed a RT). Doesn't that say anything?

6a. Enough about Pittsburgh. Max Starks is no slouch, and just because you don't hear his name much, doesn't mean he's not a good player. Willie Colon & Max Starks are a LOT better than Kirk Chambers & Langston Walker.

6b. Mike Gandy?? Doesn't anyone realize that if the Cardinals had a pro-bowl LT to neutralize James Harrison, they probably would have won the Super Bowl?

7. If we trade Peters, our chance of getting another equally-talented LT is about 25%. And even then, with the amount of time it takes to develop LTs, we will really be taking a few steps backwards.


In conclusion, if Peters is traded, hope you guys (whoever doesn't want to pay him) enjoy another terrible running game and seeing Trent Edwards on his back half the time.
Pay him! He's easily a top 5 LT, but the most important thing is that is only 27 years old. Tra Thomas is 34 and just got a nice deal with Jacksonville. Young talented LTs must be retained.

[hydro]

:bf1:

[jamze132]

I agree that Peters should be paid. There is room under the salary cap to pay him and a couple other of high priced good players. We could probably knock off Schobel and Kelsay after this season and save a few bucks since what they would make is no where near what their play deserves.

The money is there.

By the way, quit ****ing around and show Fred Jackson the money. They are disrespecting him IMO.

[ct bills fan]

It can't hurt a cap that doesn't exist next year???

[Yasgur's Farm]

If JP is indeed top 5, he's worth $8.6M/year. The Bills have reportedly offered that.

Yet JP feels he's worth #1 O-linman in the NFL $'s... $11.5-12M.

Is there anyone on these boards that wants to argue he's the best NFL O-lineman being 31st in the NFL in sacks allowed?

The Bills have offered fair money... It's time for JP to step up and play the damn game!!!

[HHURRICANE]

If JP is indeed top 5, he's worth $8.6M/year. The Bills have reportedly offered that.

Yet JP feels he's worth #1 O-linman in the NFL $'s... $11.5-12M.

Is there anyone on these boards that wants to argue he's the best NFL O-lineman being 31st in the NFL in sacks allowed?

The Bills have offered fair money... It's time for JP to step up and play the damn game!!!

The market is 9-10 million, not 8.6 million. I heard our offer was 7-8 million so where did you get 8.6 million anyway?

Every time the Bills get cheap it actually costs us more money.

We could have signed him last year for probably 8 million.

You are telling me that Peters is worth less than Lee Evans? That's insane.

[psubills62]

The market is 9-10 million, not 8.6 million. I heard our offer was 7-8 million so where did you get 8.6 million anyway?

Every time the Bills get cheap it actually costs us more money.

We could have signed him last year for probably 8 million.

You are telling me that Peters is worth less than Lee Evans? That's insane.

Where are people getting this idea? Last I checked, Jake Long still had signed a contract worth 11.5 million. What on earth gives you the idea we could have signed Peters last year for any less than he's asking now?

[Mr. Pink]

IMO Peters really hurt his bargaining power by going out and having a subpar season. I'm being generous with that assessment that stats show that he was one of the worst LTs in the game last year.

Unfortunately for the organization he won the popularity contest pro bowl vote.

What we saw out of Peters last year wasn't a top 5 performance, however based on his prior success I'd still say he needs to be paid around there.

And everyone knows that if he hit the open market, some team would go crazy and make him the highest paid lineman in NFL history.

[Yasgur's Farm]

You are telling me that Peters is worth less than Lee Evans? That's insane.Yup.

[Mahdi]

IMO Peters really hurt his bargaining power by going out and having a subpar season. I'm being generous with that assessment that stats show that he was one of the worst LTs in the game last year.

Unfortunately for the organization he won the popularity contest pro bowl vote.

What we saw out of Peters last year wasn't a top 5 performance, however based on his prior success I'd still say he needs to be paid around there.

And everyone knows that if he hit the open market, some team would go crazy and make him the highest paid lineman in NFL history.
Well going by stats to judge an offensive linemen makes no sense.... Peters did allow sacks last year but that stat is thrown off by how many of those sacks were allowed because our QBs held onto the ball for way too long. Peters dominates every player he goes up against bar none.

[Lexwhat]

Yup.


In this case, your opinion is clearly in the minority, and is not representative of what NFL front offices believe.

Ask 31 NFL front offices, and they will all say Peters is worth more to the team than Evans.

It actually doesn't matter what you or I believe. This is the way the NFL is and the way the market is.

[Lexwhat]

By the way, quit ****ing around and show Fred Jackson the money. They are disrespecting him IMO.

:bf1:


The Bills spend time bringing in Fred Taylor / Deshaun Foster, etc.

However, extending our OWN Fred Jackson should be their priority!

[PH83]

Yup.
Franchise LT > Average-Abaove Average WR

[Throne Logic]

I'm apparently in the minority. I don't believe whining the loudest, breech of contract, and mediocre on-field performance is proper justification for a top contract.

If he played like a top 5 LT last season, I might be more inline with a new deal. But he didn't. Plain and simple, he was not any where near the top LT's in the league. I believe the PB selection was a joke, based on what he did the year before; what with all the penalties and mistakes he had in 2007.

Earn it. Quit *****in' and show up for work.

[jamze132]

I'm apparently in the minority. I don't believe whining the loudest, breech of contract, and mediocre on-field performance is proper justification for a top contract.

If he played like a top 5 LT last season, I might be more inline with a new deal. But he didn't. Plain and simple, he was not any where near the top LT's in the league. I believe the PB selection was a joke, based on what he did the year before; what with all the penalties and mistakes he had in 2007.

Earn it. Quit *****in' and show up for work.
In his defense, he wasn't selected to the PB by fans. He was selected this year by players and coaches. That tells me that they respect his play.

[TacklingDummy]

4. Why is it okay for the Bills to overpay for Dockery / Schobel / Kelsey, but not Peters? People *****ed about the Bills overpaying Dockery/Schobel/Kelsay. And we still ***** about it. Your point?



6b. Mike Gandy?? Doesn't anyone realize that if the Cardinals had a pro-bowl LT to neutralize James Harrison, they probably would have won the Super Bowl? Are you blaming the loss on Gandy? Gandy was mostly 1 on 1 with the DPY and played fine that day. Just goes to show you that you don't need a franchise $10+ million Left Tackle to get to the Super Bowl.


In conclusion, if Peters is traded, hope you guys (whoever doesn't want to pay him) enjoy another terrible running game and seeing Trent Edwards on his back half the time. Because the running game was so great with Peters and Trent wasn't on his back 12 times because of Peters last year. Facts are the o-line/offense played just as well, if not better, with Peters not playing.

[justasportsfan]

Are you blaming the loss on Gandy? Gandy was mostly 1 on 1 with the DPY and played fine that day. Just goes to show you that you don't need a franchise $10+ million Left Tackle to get to the Super Bowl.

.
you don't need a franchise lt if you have a proven system and coaches that know how to make the right calls. trading Peters will disrupt continuity. Something you said the lack of continuity is what caused us to fail these past few years.

[dasaybz]

Peters is not a difference maker and it has shown by the Bills awful offense during his entire career.

We suck on offense, why waste money on a player that doesn't make us better?

[justasportsfan]

Peters is not a difference maker and it has shown by the Bills awful offense during his entire career.

We suck on offense, why waste money on a player that doesn't make us better?
and a player with lesser talent will make a difference? Peters deserved a probowl in 07. He screwed up last year. He's not the only player who did. Might as well fire everyone on O including Walker who isn't a difference maker either.

[Tatonka]

hey lex.. for the record.. Jason peters gave up more sacks than mike gandy last year.

Peters wants to be the HIGHEST PAID LT IN THE LEAGUE.

Peters has not PLAYED like the best lt in the league.

that is where there is a disconnect.

and peters can ***** all he wants.. but he is property of the bills for the next 2 years.. so he can suck balls. they dont have to give him a penny more.

[Tatonka]

In his defense, he wasn't selected to the PB by fans. He was selected this year by players and coaches. That tells me that they respect his play.

did they respect all the sacks and awful plays he made last year too?

[venis2k1]

He screwed up last year. He's not the only player who did. Might as well fire everyone on O including Walker who isn't a difference maker either.


Here's a better idea! lets give Walker 12 million dollars a year even though he is under contract for multiple years at a much cheaper price. :poop:

[Tatonka]

Here's a better idea! lets give Walker 12 million dollars a year even though he is under contract for multiple years at a much cheaper price. :poop:

he played better at LT than peters did last year.. so i guess he deserves it.

[justasportsfan]

Here's a better idea! lets give Walker 12 million dollars a year even though he is under contract for multiple years at a much cheaper price. :poop:
you might have to if you move him to LT playing with RT salary.

Here's a question, who is out there that would make this team better as a replacement or an upgrade over Peters? Walker played against crappy teams when he played LT for us.


Even if you move Walker to Lt, who's gonna replace him at RT. I want solutions that would make it better than Peter LT and walker at RT

this OL is already weaker without a hole at LG or maybe the same since we signed an unproven Center who stills needs to learn the system and gain chemistry with the rest of the OL. Getting rid of Peters is gonna make it weaker.

[jamze132]

did they respect all the sacks and awful plays he made last year too?
Well why was he selected to the Pro Bowl then? Let's here your reasoning.

[venis2k1]

Here's a question, who is out there that would make this team better as a replacement or an upgrade over Peters? Walker played against crappy teams when he played LT for us.

Why do you want to get rid of Peters, he is a quality o-lineman. That happens to be under contract at pretty good money for the next 2 years.

[Tatonka]

Well why was he selected to the Pro Bowl then? Let's here your reasoning.

because of the reputation he earned the year before.. they remember him as a good player the prior year.. when he earned a trip to the probowl..

you cant tell me that you honestly believe that he was a probowl caliber LT last year. if you do, you need to take off the rose colored glasses. giving up 10+ sacks is not exceptable for a rookie, let alone "one of the best left tackles in the leauge".

[justasportsfan]

Why do you want to get rid of Peters, he is a quality o-lineman. That happens to be under contract at pretty good money for the next 2 years.
I don't want him gone as a matter of fact I'd rather overpay him than the other players we've overpaid like Kelsay. I'm tired of rebuilding with this staffs 4th year.

[Kenny]

because of the reputation he earned the year before.. they remember him as a good player the prior year.. when he earned a trip to the probowl..

you cant tell me that you honestly believe that he was a probowl caliber LT last year. if you do, you need to take off the rose colored glasses. giving up 10+ sacks is not exceptable for a rookie, let alone "one of the best left tackles in the leauge".

And that's just the thing. We all know what he's capable of. And he's still young and not even at the prime of his career yet.
These things dont just drop in your lap every year. I cant even remember a player we've had on the Bills roster that has had as much talent (potential and actual) that we now have with Peters... and he plays in arguably the 2nd most important position in the game.

I just dont see how trading a guy like this is even an consideration. And so what if we overpay right now? Every team in the league overpays. We're certainly no exception with guys like Kelsay, Schobel, Dockery (who's gone), Evans, etc...

[dplus47]

and if you have to overpay someone, it's better (IMO) to overpay one of your own than to overpay someone from another team.

he is under contract, but imagine that mcdonald's signs people to contracts. he's brought in and given a french fry cooker contract, which he outgrows and he becomes the guy who cooks the burgers. they give him a burger cooker contract, and he outgrows that and moves to the drive thru and front counter. and they want to keep him under the burger cooker's contract. sorry, but there are ******ed kids that can handle that job, and you don't pay one of your best employees the same as the ******ed kid. (sorry to be so un-pc).

you could say that overpaying peters would tell players that whining will get them somewhere. but look at it from the players' perspective. the bills are saying "you can outplay your contract and you won't get a new one."

it would be good for morale if the bills paid peters, and i don't think it would send a message that the inmates are running the asylum. it would send a message that you'll get paid according to the service you provide.

[venis2k1]

Players like Peters are what bothers me about the NFL today. When a player plays above his contract(in his eyes) he holds out and cries that he deserves more money. But when a player underplays his contract, I.E. Schobel, Kelsay, and Doc, you never see the front office demanding that player gives money back. Why does the FO have to honor players contracts but not the player?

[justasportsfan]

he played better at LT than peters did last year.. so i guess he deserves it.
against crappy teams.

[justasportsfan]

Players like Peters are what bothers me about the NFL today. When a player plays above his contract(in his eyes) he holds out and cries that he deserves more money. But when a player underplays his contract, I.E. Schobel, Kelsay, and Doc, you never see the front office demanding that player gives money back. Why does the FO have to honor players contracts but not the player?


and who created that monster? This FO. They keep paying the wrong people . The bills honored their contract that they gave him to play RT? He's an LTnow and isn't even paid average LT money.

[venis2k1]

If we moved Jason Peters back to RT and let Walker play LT would that stop the *****ing?? No. It wouldnt. And that might make sense considering Walker is better in pass protection.

[Tatonka]

against crappy teams.

against whatever team was on the schedule.

you trying to tell me that none of the teams walker played against had a good pass rusher? hmm.

[dplus47]

Players like Peters are what bothers me about the NFL today. When a player plays above his contract(in his eyes) he holds out and cries that he deserves more money. But when a player underplays his contract, I.E. Schobel, Kelsay, and Doc, you never see the front office demanding that player gives money back. Why does the FO have to honor players contracts but not the player?

when a player underperforms his contract, he is usually cut, like dockery. the bills didn't honor his contract until the end. you see veterans get cut every year.

peters has outperformed his contract in the eyes of everyone but bills' fans, apparently. and maybe their front office, who thinks you can get a left tackle for several years for right tackle money.

[jamze132]

because of the reputation he earned the year before.. they remember him as a good player the prior year.. when he earned a trip to the probowl..

you cant tell me that you honestly believe that he was a probowl caliber LT last year. if you do, you need to take off the rose colored glasses. giving up 10+ sacks is not exceptable for a rookie, let alone "one of the best left tackles in the leauge".
For the record, I wasn't a huge fan of Peter's play this past season. But are you telling me that he was selected to the PB by the coaches and players this year because of how he played the previous year? :rofl: That logic only makes sense when the fans vote someone in. Obviously, most of the DEs and coordinators thought enough of his play to earn another PB. You seem to just look at the number of sacks he allowed. There were times when he absolutely mauled defenders.

[yordad]

The market is 9-10 million, not 8.6 million.I would like to see where a veteran O-lineman was signed to a 9-10 million a year, while having 2 years left on his contract, and while underperforming, and not when the franchise was in a hurry to get the job done so they can franchise Peppers.

I would also advise you to look at the top salaries of the best OT, not the luckiest.

The top two paid weren't payed based on value, or play; they were payed based on circumstance.

The average of the next top 5 paid is below 8.6.

Jez, I feel like a broken record. New title, same thread. No offense.