These Roscoe trade posts....

[xXSpIkes5IXx]

Are ridiculous. You think we should trade the best punt returner in the game? Hes on our team not to put up as a receiver, but to change the field position game.

Its amazing how the fans want to trade one of our biggest impact players, and at the same time complain about how we don't have enough.

[justasportsfan]

Its amazing how the fans want to trade one of our biggest impact players, and at the same time complain about how we don't have enough.
word. We want continuity but we want to keep playing musical chairs with the OL.

[DraftBoy]

I think some of see that guys like this (Dante Hall comes to mind as the best parallel) come and go. They don't last long and why is that? Because they can't play their natural position of WR.

Parrish has a high value right now and if I got offered a 3rd or 4th for him, Id seriously take a long look at it. Returners can be found.

[OpIv37]

Did you see how bad Roscoe is as a WR? Remember when Reed got hurt and he had to start?

This is the problem with keeping guys for S/T prowess only. It hurts depth at other positions. The drop-off between Parrish and Jackson or McKelvin is not that steep, plus we have McGee for kickoffs if necessary.

We've had the best S/T in the NFL for most of this decade. Where has it gotten us? ****ing nowhere. If this team is going to win, they need to stop sacrificing position players for guys who are on the field 5 plays a game.

[Mahdi]

Are ridiculous. You think we should trade the best punt returner in the game? Hes on our team not to put up as a receiver, but to change the field position game.

Its amazing how the fans want to trade one of our biggest impact players, and at the same time complain about how we don't have enough.
Agreed. Field position is huge in today's NFL.

Yes you can find returners, but there aren't many like Roscoe and Hester. The return against Seattle is one only a handful of guys can make.

[Ed]

I still think Roscoe could be a good weapon in this offense if we just tried to use him a little more or use him more effectively. All our corners always talk about how he's the toughest guy to cover one on one. We've also seen him score from 30+ yds out on reverse plays, yet we didn't run one single reverse with him last year. Why not?

Maybe with Trent going into his 3rd year and having Lee and T.O. drawing all the attention, we can FINALLY start to get Roscoe a little more involved.

I don't know why people are so eager to get rid of him. We probably couldn't get much in a trade and he's not expensive either. So I'd rather not give up one of our most exciting players.

[OpIv37]

I still think Roscoe could be a good weapon in this offense if we just tried to use him a little more or use him more effectively. All our corners always talk about how he's the toughest guy to cover one on one. We've also seen him score from 30+ yds out on reverse plays, yet we didn't run one single reverse with him last year. Why not?

Maybe with Trent going into his 3rd year and having Lee and T.O. drawing all the attention, we can FINALLY start to get Roscoe a little more involved.

I don't know why people are so eager to get rid of him. We probably couldn't get much in a trade and he's not expensive either. So I'd rather not give up one of our most exciting players.

1. He's a terrible WR. I don't know why our DB's say he's so hard to cover one on one, because opposing DB's never bite on his fakes and run with him the whole time. Josh Reed isn't nearly as fast but gets much better separation on his routes.

2. We have other guys who can return punts, so it's not like we'd be giving up a whole lot.

3. This team has much bigger holes than WR and PR, and Parrish has decent value. So if we can trade him to get a player, or possibly a draft pick, to fill those holes, it would benefit the team (I'd prefer a player since draft picks are hit or miss and usually take time to develop, but player for player trades are rare in the NFL).

[OpIv37]

Everyone keeps talking about Roscoe as an offensive weapon- when exactly has he been an offensive weapon? Speed doesn't always mean he's a weapon, especially since he's only 165 and gets easily arm tackled.

[justasportsfan]

Everyone keeps talking about Roscoe as an offensive weapon- when exactly has he been an offensive weapon? Speed doesn't always mean he's a weapon, especially since he's only 165 and gets easily arm tackled.

I would use Parrish is screen passes but unfortunately our coaches don't know what that is.

[nateodoms'bff]

I would use Parrish is screen passes but unfortunately our coaches don't know what that is.

I'm sure the coaches have thought of this. The problem is that Roscoe has hands of stone, and can't find a hole, unless he runs 8 yards in the opposite direction...

That doesn't work so good on screen plays, where you are starting 5 yards behind the line of scrimmage to begin with.

[justasportsfan]

I'm sure the coaches have thought of this. The problem is that Roscoe has hands of stone, and can't find a hole, unless he runs 8 yards in the opposite direction...

That doesn't work so good on screen plays, where you are starting 5 yards behind the line of scrimmage to begin with.


YOu mean Roscoe is the only wr we have on this team? I doubt Roscoe is the problem. He doesn't have hands of stone. He can also catch punts no? If he can't find holes how is he a punt returner?

[THATHURMANATOR]

Are ridiculous. You think we should trade the best punt returner in the game? Hes on our team not to put up as a receiver, but to change the field position game.

Its amazing how the fans want to trade one of our biggest impact players, and at the same time complain about how we don't have enough.
Mckelvin is just as good a returner.

[trapezeus]

Roscoe is a luxury item. This team has no use for luxury. They need utility.

Roscoe also has his amazing returns early in the season. Then he just kind of lulls. We also don't have a dominant defense that gets the other teams to punt the ball to us. So our "dynamic returner" just sits there with no use.

If a good deal comes along, we should send roscoe packing. we have adequate players to take his spot and we need to get better as a team overall.

[madness]

We wouldn't give up a whole lot by unloading Parrish... only about 10-20 yards of field position in a game of inches.

With the acquisition of TO, Parrish is more valuable than he has ever been.

[justasportsfan]

Jenkins or Parrish?

I'll take Parrish.

[nateodoms'bff]

YOu mean Roscoe is the only wr we have on this team? I doubt Roscoe is the problem. He doesn't have hands of stone. He can also catch punts no? If he can't find holes how is he a punt returner?

Not sure what you mean? I thought the idea was to use Roscoe in screens, not other receivers.

And yes, he does have hands of stone. Catching punts and passes are two entirely different things, and require to entirely different techniques.

Punts you use your chest and arms to trap the ball, then in motion place the ball in your hands and begin to run down field.

Catching a pass requires very soft hands, and using your body to gain position on the coverage. A receiver can use their chest to catch a ball, and trap it with their hands, but often times that limits the players ability to gain advantage on the coverage, and make a play with their legs.

As for his punt return ability, when he finds a hole, he is unstoppable, the problem is that because of his diminutive size, he needs to run backwards in order to "see" the hole, or separation in coverage. Some times it works to his advantage, but sometimes he loses yards, or doesn't gain as many as he could by just running forward into coverage.

His skill set does not lend itself to being a WR in the NFL. He is a Kick/Punt Return Specialist, and that's all. Its not the coaches, its not Ralph. Its his lack of size and hands that prevents him from being a capable starter at WR.

[OpIv37]

We wouldn't give up a whole lot by unloading Parrish... only about 10-20 yards of field position in a game of inches.

With the acquisition of TO, Parrish is more valuable than he has ever been.

Actually you have that backwards. With the acquisition of TO, Parrish is less valuable than ever because we have 3 WR's who are clearly better than him at that position.

Has everyone just forgotten that Jackson and McKelvin return kicks too?

[justasportsfan]

Its not the coaches, .


tell that to Trent and Reed who seems to blame the coaches. I'm sure even Roscoe is affected by that especially when our players don't know what formation the D is showing them because our coaches made them practice the wrong thing all week.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Roscoe is a great Punt returner and NOTHING else.

He is 5th possibly 6th on the depth chart in regards to his actual position of WR. Since Mckelvin is a great returner in his own right Parrish is expendable. What is to not understand about this?

[justasportsfan]

Roscoe is a great Punt returner and NOTHING else.

He is 5th possibly 6th on the depth chart in regards to his actual position of WR. Since Mckelvin is a great returner in his own right Parrish is expendable. What is to not understand about this?


Parrish is our best punt returner, should we trade our best LT, Peters?


Let McKelvin concentrate on being the best cb. What happens if he gets injured returning kicks?

[THATHURMANATOR]

Parrish is our best punt returner, should we trade our best LT, Peters?


Let McKelvin concentrate on being the best cb. What happens if he gets injured returning kicks?
I won't be mad if they keep Parrish. Don't trade him just to trade him but if they can get good value and want to upgrade in other areas I am more than fine with it.

Why bring up Peters in this scenario? Apples and Oranges. One is a luxury one is a necessity.

[OpIv37]

Parrish is our best punt returner, should we trade our best LT, Peters?


Let McKelvin concentrate on being the best cb. What happens if he gets injured returning kicks?

What happens if TO or Evans gets injured? Then Parrish is our 3rd receiver.

How many punts to the Bills field in the average game. 5? 6? How many offensive plays do they usually have? 50? A starting LT is on the field a LOT more than a starting PR. On top of that, LT's are much more difficult to find then punt returners. Hell, we already have at least two guys who can do it- McKelvin and Jackson, plus McGee if absolutely necessary.

You know, Roscoe's been a good punt returner for 3 years. Where has it gotten us? 7-9, 7-9, 7-9. Punt returns do not make nearly as much difference as some of you are making it seem.

[justasportsfan]

I won't be mad if they keep Parrish. Don't trade him just to trade him but if they can get good value and want to upgrade in other areas I am more than fine with it. .lets trade him to the Patriots. I'm sure they'll make him a weapon in screen plays. How bout the fins and their wildcat?



Why bring up Peters in this scenario? Apples and Oranges. One is a luxury one is a necessity.
because people like trading our best players at certain positions for picks that this FO has proven to be clueless about. What are we going to do with a 4th rd pick when we couldn't even do anything with Hardy, Whitner , Fine,Ellis, Shouman etc,etc and then say we have no talent in certain positions.

And lets not forget we love drafting high character players that run down fat chicks and hide loaded guns in the trunk with blunts in the front seat.

[trapezeus]

justa, i agree, our FO picks are not the best. We have seemingly brought in a few people to help the scouting department out. hopefully that pays off.

But like i said, i just don't see us having enough tools to be good that we need to keep a punt returner on the roster at Millions of dollars. Especially the way this team operates, we should clear a salary like that to help pay for Peters or another difference maker on the offense or defense.

[OpIv37]

lets trade him to the Patriots. I'm sure they'll make him a weapon in screen plays. How bout the fins and their wildcat?


because people like trading our best players at certain positions for picks that this FO has proven to be clueless about. What are we going to do with a 4th rd pick when we couldn't even do anything with Hardy, Whitner , Fine,Ellis, Shouman etc,etc?

the problem is the way you define "Position". Not all positions are equal, and ST positions are not as valuable as offensive positions that are on the field all the time. It's an apples and oranges comparison.

Also, you're neglecting one other thing: The drop-off from Peters to Chambers is MUCH greater than the drop-off between Roscoe and McKelvin (as returners, of course).

[justasportsfan]

the problem is the way you define "Position". Not all positions are equal, and ST positions are not as valuable as offensive positions that are on the field all the time. It's an apples and oranges comparison.

Also, you're neglecting one other thing: The drop-off from Peters to Chambers is MUCH greater than the drop-off between Roscoe and McKelvin (as returners, of course).

there are other more useless positon players on ST than Roscoe is at wr. Take a look at them first. At least Roscoe is one of the best in the entire league at punt returns than lets say a Jon Corto .

LIke I said, I'd rather get rid of Jenkins before I get rid of Roscoe. At least Roscoe helps this pathetic O in field position.

[OpIv37]

there are other more useless positon players on ST than Roscoe is at wr.



very true, but they don't have trade value.

[justasportsfan]

justa, i agree, our FO picks are not the best. We have seemingly brought in a few people to help the scouting department out. hopefully that pays off.

But like i said, i just don't see us having enough tools to be good that we need to keep a punt returner on the roster at Millions of dollars. Especially the way this team operates, we should clear a salary like that to help pay for Peters or another difference maker on the offense or defense.
sasme answer as OP's. There are other players we should get rid off before we get to Roscoe.

[justasportsfan]

very true, but they don't have trade value.
under this staff, an experienced player whos already arguably the best punt returner is a better value than a 3rd or 4th pick .

Parrish contributes more than Ellis, Shouman, fines and ever other wasted pick we've made through the years.

[THATHURMANATOR]

lets trade him to the Patriots. I'm sure they'll make him a weapon in screen plays. How bout the fins and their wildcat?


because people like trading our best players at certain positions for picks that this FO has proven to be clueless about. What are we going to do with a 4th rd pick when we couldn't even do anything with Hardy, Whitner , Fine,Ellis, Shouman etc,etc and then say we have no talent in certain positions.

And lets not forget we love drafting high character players that run down fat chicks and hide loaded guns in the trunk with blunts in the front seat.
Don't get me wrong. Why trade him for no reason. If a great offer pops up to improve say DE or Guard etc pull the trigger.

[madness]

Actually you have that backwards. With the acquisition of TO, Parrish is less valuable than ever because we have 3 WR's who are clearly better than him at that position.

Has everyone just forgotten that Jackson and McKelvin return kicks too?

No, Parrish currently has the best punt return avg. in NFL history. Our offense finally gets better and you want to move the ball backwards?

[THATHURMANATOR]

under this staff, an experienced player whos already arguably the best punt returner is a better value than a 3rd or 4th pick .

Parrish contributes more than Ellis, Shouman, fines and ever other wasted pick we've made through the years.
I do agree with this. Only way I would trade Parrish would be say they are offered a 2nd or 3rd(unlikely I know) for Parrish and a player they covet and think can help immediately is on the board.

[Mr. Pink]

Roscoe Parrish gets 6 yards more per return than league average.

Yes, we need to keep him! HAVE TO! MUST!

:rofl:

Big game changer he is.

[psubills62]

Agreed. Field position is huge in today's NFL.

Yes you can find returners, but there aren't many like Roscoe and Hester. The return against Seattle is one only a handful of guys can make.

Parrish is a more consistent PR than Hester, but Hester (before being ruined as a WR) was much more of a game changer. When Parrish was out, I personally didn't see any drop-off between Roscoe Parrish and Fred Jackson. Besides, PR's were McKelvin's specialty in college.

Punt returners come and go. Not to mention our defense isn't usually good enough to get us punts that can be easily returned. Would you rather have a guy who nets us, say 15 yards per punt return, but only 15 yards per game at WR, or would you rather have a guy who gets us 12 yards per punt return and 40 yards per game at WR?

WR's are ten times more important than PR's, especially since we have so many capable ones. Parrish would be traded in an instant under my watch if the opportunity came about.

[WagonCircler]

Agreed. Field position is huge in today's NFL.

Yes you can find returners, but there aren't many like Roscoe and Hester. The return against Seattle is one only a handful of guys can make.


There are two who are already on the roster. McGee and McKelvin. The Irish boys. :D

[OpIv37]

No, Parrish currently has the best punt return avg. in NFL history. Our offense finally gets better and you want to move the ball backwards?

first, our offense isn't better yet. We still have Trent at QB and a huge hole at LG. And we'll likely be missing Lynch for 4 games.

Second, how many punts a game do we actually field? Not that many. We don't have a shut-down D.

Third, one more time- Parrish has been returning punts well for 3 or 4 years. What did it get us? Mediocrity. Bad S/T can lose games, but Buffalo since 2003 is proof that good S/T rarely wins games.

Finally, your whole premise is off. Fred Jackson averaged 16.6 ypr last year. Parrish only averaged 15.3. McKelvin actually returned more punts than Parrish and had a 13.0 ypr average. So, Jackson averages MORE, McKelvin only averages 2.3 yards less- do you REALLY think 2.3 yards is going to be the difference in the season? Come on. And that's assuming McKelvin doesn't improve, which he probably will.

numbers are here if you don't believe me:
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&statisticCategory=KICK_RETURNS&d-447263-s=PUNT_RETURNS_AVERAGE_YARDS&experience=null&d-447263-n=1&season=2008&Submit=Go&qualified=true&tabSeq=0&d-447263-p=1

according to the numbers, Parrish isn't even the best PR on our TEAM, let alone the NFL.

[OpIv37]

Agreed. Field position is huge in today's NFL.

Yes you can find returners, but there aren't many like Roscoe and Hester. The return against Seattle is one only a handful of guys can make.

First, once again, how well have the Bills and Bears done over the last few seasons? Hester and Parrish don't create many wins.

Second, Fred Jackson averaged MORE yards per return than Parrish last year (see the link in my previous post if you don't believe me). McKelvin wasn't far behind. There are two returners like Parrish ALREADY ON OUR TEAM.

To be fair Parrish had 1 more TD than either of those guys, for a grand total of.... one.