Robert Ayers visiting Bills

[Romes]

Tennessee DE Robert Ayers told Scout.com that he’s currently in Buffalo visiting with the Bills and will be there until tomorrow, Wednesday March 18th.

After spending most of his career as a backup, situational defender, Ayers finally broke into the starting lineup this past season and recorded 49 tackles, 15.5 for a loss and three sacks.

http://atl.scout.com/a.z?s=122&p=9&c=2&cid=848094&nid=3708201&fhn=1

A two day visit :scratch:

[Tatonka]

3 sacks in his only year as a starter.. i just do NOT get the facination.. you are drafting him ENTIRELY on potential.. no production at all.

just crazy.

i hate the guy.

[The Spaz]

3 sacks in his only year as a starter.. i just do NOT get the facination.. you are drafting him ENTIRELY on potential.. no production at all.

just crazy.

i hate the guy.

While what you say is true I would also take a look at his TFL. Definitely doesn't have the numbers but he is good at both reading the pass and run. So yeah not your sack guy but he can get pressure in the backfield.

[clumping platelets]

All players drafted are drafted on potential :rolleyes:

[Tatonka]

All players drafted are drafted on potential :rolleyes:

obviously.. but usually the potential you are talking about is based on SOME production... not 1 sack every 4 games.

i am just saying.. the guy was never even a dominant player in college.. he could only beat 3 college tackles for a sack, but you think he will do WAY better in the nfl??

if your going to draft a guy based entirely on potential and absolutely NO COLLEGE PRODUCTION, then you sure as **** better not do it in the first round. that is why a team ends up picking high again the next year.. he is a matt jones..

[X-Era]

obviously.. but usually the potential you are talking about is based on SOME production... not 1 sack every 4 games.

i am just saying.. the guy was never even a dominant player in college.. he could only beat 3 college tackles for a sack, but you think he will do WAY better in the nfl??

if your going to draft a guy based entirely on potential and absolutely NO COLLEGE PRODUCTION, then you sure as **** better not do it in the first round. that is why a team ends up picking high again the next year.. he is a matt jones..

I agree. Yes, its about potential, but you better know alot about who your drafting. We just dont know if he can be that bigtime rusher for us at this point, he just doesnt have enough tape to make this a sure thing.

Id rather give up some size and go with a more polished rusher.

[Don't Panic]

Smokescreen.

[mybills]

The majority of his job is to tackle, right...
49 with 15.5 for a loss...how many were for no gain?

[Jan Reimers]

We do not need projects. We have waited 9 long years for a playoff appearance.

We need guys who can produce. Now.

[Mahdi]

There's a 6 minute(approx.) video of Robert Ayers on Youtube. If you guys want to know a bit of what he is about it's a good one. I can't access Youtube from here.

[methos4ever]

We do not need projects. We have waited 9 long years for a playoff appearance.

We need guys who can produce. Now.
Then it doesn't matter who we draft where, because none of them are going to be ready to be pro-bowlers in year one...

[ct bills fan]

Hoping that they're thinking about him as a 2nd round pick, and not a first.

[Ickybaluky]

Ayers was considered immature earlier in his college career, which held him back. He even was arrested for assault a few years ago. He really turned things around last year, becoming a leader on the team and stepping up his play.

Obviously, his sack numbers weren't great and there is the question of his really only having one good year of production, but the hook on the guy is his athleticism and versatility. He has good size and can anchor like a power end, but he is a much better athlete than most ends. Some teams have even worked him out as a 3-4 OLB, because of his athleticism, and at the least he can be used in zone-blitz packages because he is athletic enough to drop into coverage on occasion. He really came on last year, but was it his maturing or just a push for money?

For the Bills, the draw is easy to see. They look at a guy who is strong enough to play inside on passing downs and quick enough to play outside. He is more athletic than most DL, but can play there because he is strong in his lower body.

Some teams look at what Justin Tuck has done with the Giants and think Ayers can be used in a similar fashion. Tuck was much more productive as a pass-rusher in college (19.5 sacks in his final two years at Notre Dame, despite battling a knee injury as a senior), but the two have similar size and athleticism. A guy like Tuck can transform the Tampa-2, which is predicated on bringing pressure with the front 4.

Ayers is going to be a riser and go higher than expected, because some will see him as a Tuck-like player.

[don137]

I think Marv Levy stated in his book that no word has got more coaches fired then the word 'potential'. I agree we need immediate impact players especially at DE.

[Mahdi]

Ayers was considered immature earlier in his college career, which held him back. He even was arrested for assault a few years ago. He really turned things around last year, becoming a leader on the team and stepping up his play.

Obviously, his sack numbers weren't great and there is the question of his really only having one good year of production, but the hook on the guy is his athleticism and versatility. He has good size and can anchor like a power end, but he is a much better athlete than most ends. Some teams have even worked him out as a 3-4 OLB, because of his athleticism, and at the least he can be used in zone-blitz packages because he is athletic enough to drop into coverage on occasion. He really came on last year, but was it his maturing or just a push for money?

For the Bills, the draw is easy to see. They look at a guy who is strong enough to play inside on passing downs and quick enough to play outside. He is more athletic than most DL, but can play there because he is strong in his lower body.

Some teams look at what Justin Tuck has done with the Giants and think Ayers can be used in a similar fashion. Tuck was much more productive as a pass-rusher in college (19.5 sacks in his final two years at Notre Dame, despite battling a knee injury as a senior), but the two have similar size and athleticism. A guy like Tuck can transform the Tampa-2, which is predicated on bringing pressure with the front 4.

Ayers is going to be a riser and go higher than expected, because some will see him as a Tuck-like player.
I had the exact same analysis as you in my Robert Ayers thread in the Scouting Zone. Watching him, you really do see Justin Tuck.

[DesertFox24]

To all you guys that want immediate production for a ROOKIE DL, go to NFL.com and look at all the high DL draft picks and tell me that last time a first round DE has had a great rookie year since Kearse.

It just does not happen, we need a guy that can just generate some sort of rush from the left end spot. The guy will probably get 5 sacks but will hopefully force teams to stop rolling out to our left side like they did every time.

If we can get pressure from the RE and LE and force the QB to move up in the pocket look for our pass d to improve and for us to get a lot more tipped balls INTs.

[Ickybaluky]

I had the exact same analysis as you in my Robert Ayers thread in the Scouting Zone. Watching him, you really do see Justin Tuck.

Well, it isn't really my analysis. I wish I had the time and ability to judge a guy, but I am more regurgitating stuff I've read. From what I have read, teams are high on the guy because they see a lot of similarities to Tuck, and he could be a real riser prior to the draft. I'm no scout, though.

[Mahdi]

Well, it isn't really my analysis. I wish I had the time and ability to judge a guy, but I am more regurgitating stuff I've read. From what I have read, teams are high on the guy because they see a lot of similarities to Tuck, and he could be a real riser prior to the draft. I'm no scout, though.
I say analysis in a very light manner. Im no expert either.

[Ickybaluky]

I say analysis in a very light manner. Im no expert either.

Yeah, but we are master-googlers!

[mybills]

If he's anything like Tuck, I'll be happy!

[Pinkerton Security]

To all you guys that want immediate production for a ROOKIE DL, go to NFL.com and look at all the high DL draft picks and tell me that last time a first round DE has had a great rookie year since Kearse.

It just does not happen, we need a guy that can just generate some sort of rush from the left end spot. The guy will probably get 5 sacks but will hopefully force teams to stop rolling out to our left side like they did every time.

If we can get pressure from the RE and LE and force the QB to move up in the pocket look for our pass d to improve and for us to get a lot more tipped balls INTs.

Speaking for myself at least, i dont want a guy to come in and get 15 sacks. Or 10 even. I want a guy who can get 5 or so and come in on passing downs and GET TO THE DAMN QB once in a while, something we havent seen much of. We dont necessarily need massive amounts of production, we just need someone the O-coordinator actually has to account for.

[The Spaz]

Speaking for myself at least, i dont want a guy to come in and get 15 sacks. Or 10 even. I want a guy who can get 5 or so and come in on passing downs and GET TO THE DAMN QB once in a while, something we havent seen much of. We dont necessarily need massive amounts of production, we just need someone the O-coordinator actually has to account for.

I agree and I think the Bills thought Ellis would be that guy and he obviously wasn't ready.

[mybills]

Speaking for myself at least, i dont want a guy to come in and get 15 sacks. Or 10 even. I want a guy who can get 5 or so and come in on passing downs and GET TO THE DAMN QB once in a while, something we havent seen much of. We dont necessarily need massive amounts of production, we just need someone the O-coordinator actually has to account for.
I agree. Last year every time we tried to go for the sack their team went straight up the middle or threw the slant away from it. Very Pop Warner looking on our part.

[TigerJ]

There is no player the Bills can draft as a pass rusher who is a can't miss type of player without warts. That's why different players are coming in and out of favor as the draft approaches. Brian Orakpo, Everette Brown, Michael Johnson, Tyson Jackson, Robert Ayers, etc. all have their questions and their detractors and their questions. Ayers is not quite as explosive as people like. In the end, whoever the Bills draft is going to make some fans unhappy this year. Ultimately, I just hope the Bills do their homework and pick the pass rusher who gives us the best chance.

It would be nice if we could pick the brains of those who will be making the decision about who to draft for the Bills. Most outside the organization seem to be speculating that the defensive end the Bills pick will be slated to fill in on the left side where "Dennelsay" seems to have outlived its usefulness. But as we all know Schobel was close to useless before his injury too. Maybe he was playing hurt all along, and that limited his production, or there were other extenuating circumstances, but without knowing, I can't be real confident about right defensive end going into the season either. There are hints Chris Ellis may be ready to blossom this year, but we won't know for a while.

In any case, if the Bills are drafting a left defensive end, it's probably not going to be a sack specialist. Ayers would probably be a good choice. He is a wee lrounded defensive end, a good technician with good athleticism. As a late bloomer maybe he wtill has upside as a sacker. He got lots of kudos at the Senior Bowl. All I can do is wait, so I'm not going to fret too much about it.

[bigbub2352]

He has bust and Eric Flowers Written all over him, this is a guy with 4 sacks last year
we need a pure pass rusher not a complete DE who may get to the QB on occasion
We need a DE who disrupts plays and is consistenly breaking up pockets
Not a Combine Hero
we went that route before look were it got us
Sorry no thanks Everett Brown, Maybin, orakapo, English far superior to Ayers

[acehole]

I have seen him rated 7-24. Hard to pin piont.

Erick Flowers? or Bruce smith?



3 sacks in his only year as a starter.. i just do NOT get the facination.. you are drafting him ENTIRELY on potential.. no production at all.

just crazy.

i hate the guy.

[Mahdi]

He has bust and Eric Flowers Written all over him, this is a guy with 4 sacks last year
we need a pure pass rusher not a complete DE who may get to the QB on occasion
We need a DE who disrupts plays and is consistenly breaking up pockets
Not a Combine Hero
we went that route before look were it got us
Sorry no thanks Everett Brown, Maybin, orakapo, English far superior to Ayers
Have you seen video of Ayers. The guy knows how to get into the backfield.

[Pinkerton Security]

He has bust and Eric Flowers Written all over him, this is a guy with 4 sacks last year
we need a pure pass rusher not a complete DE who may get to the QB on occasion
We need a DE who disrupts plays and is consistenly breaking up pockets
Not a Combine Hero
we went that route before look were it got us
Sorry no thanks Everett Brown, Maybin, orakapo, English far superior to Ayers

i agree with you to a point, I hate the workout warriors that shoot up the boards just because they have physical tools. I want production.

[Ickybaluky]

He has bust and Eric Flowers Written all over him, this is a guy with 4 sacks last year
we need a pure pass rusher not a complete DE who may get to the QB on occasion
We need a DE who disrupts plays and is consistenly breaking up pockets
Not a Combine Hero
we went that route before look were it got us
Sorry no thanks Everett Brown, Maybin, orakapo, English far superior to Ayers

I realize Flowers was a huge bust for the Bills, but that shouldn't keep them from drafting another DE. Each guy succeeds or fails on his own merit.

Also, while Flowers may have been similar athletically to Ayers, he was more of a DE/OLB-tweener. He didn't anchor or play with power on the DL like Ayers is supposed to do. Different players.

Keep in mind, Flowers wasn't an underachiever in college. He had a huge senior season at Arizona State, notching double-digit sacks. He was all over the field as a college player, a real terror. His problem was more not having a true position as a pro, he didn't quite fit as a 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB, he was a 'tweener. Ayers is a better fit for the NFL.

[bigbub2352]

Have you seen video of Ayers. The guy knows how to get into the backfield.

I have seen film on him and wasnt impressed enough to use the 11th pick overall on him, i dont see the burst off the line you need to be a solid pass rusher in the NFL, 4 sacks as a SR scares the hell out of me it is very rare that it will translate to more production in the NFL

We got enough 4 sacks guys lets get a playmaker not another DE with tools

[bigbub2352]

i agree with you to a point, I hate the workout warriors that shoot up the boards just because they have physical tools. I want production.

I am not saying Flowers is Ayers but both were combine hero's and 4 sacks is not impressive enough for me to use the 11th overall pick on
Especially if there are far more productive college players available
4 sacks scares me
I want Playmakers not stop gaps

[DraftBoy]

The one thing Ayers is that no other top DE prospect has on him is that he is a true 4-3 DE prospect. That fits our scheme, I think 11 is too high to take him because you're taking a big risk on a guy with limited film, and limited experience. I also don't trust our talent evaluators one bit. I like Ayers a lot but not as our 1st Round pick to be honest.

[bigbub2352]

I realize Flowers was a huge bust for the Bills, but that shouldn't keep them from drafting another DE. Each guy succeeds or fails on his own merit.

Also, while Flowers may have been similar athletically to Ayers, he was more of a DE/OLB-tweener. He didn't anchor or play with power on the DL like Ayers is supposed to do. Different players.

Keep in mind, Flowers wasn't an underachiever in college. He had a huge senior season at Arizona State, notching double-digit sacks. He was all over the field as a college player, a real terror. His problem was more not having a true position as a pro, he didn't quite fit as a 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB, he was a 'tweener. Ayers is a better fit for the NFL.

I just dont think his production or lack there of would convince me to use the 11th overall pick on him, we need playmakers not stop gaps

[DraftBoy]

I have seen film on him and wasnt impressed enough to use the 11th pick overall on him, i dont see the burst off the line you need to be a solid pass rusher in the NFL, 4 sacks as a SR scares the hell out of me it is very rare that it will translate to more production in the NFL

We got enough 4 sacks guys lets get a playmaker not another DE with tools

Its not all about the sacks, I dont know why people get so hung up on that.

[DraftBoy]

I just dont think his production or lack there of would convince me to use the 11th overall pick on him, we need playmakers not stop gaps

That a ridiculous statement to make. You dont even know what Ayers will be like to call him not a playmaker or even a stop gap is just grasping at this point. The fact is that the kid got progressively better with time at Tennessee and against the best the Senior Class had to offer he was a dominant force. Stats tells us some thing but not even close to the whole story.

And it wasn't even that he was not productive his senior year because he was, you are focusing on one sole stat like it tells you everything you need to know about the player, which is not true even in the slightest bit.

[Mahdi]

I have seen film on him and wasnt impressed enough to use the 11th pick overall on him, i dont see the burst off the line you need to be a solid pass rusher in the NFL, 4 sacks as a SR scares the hell out of me it is very rare that it will translate to more production in the NFL

We got enough 4 sacks guys lets get a playmaker not another DE with tools
Im in no way encouraging the Bills to take Ayers 11th overall. I wouldn't be upset about it either though. The kid obviously has something though that scouts are seeing cuz he is shooting up boards.

Mayock having him as his #5 overall prospect is a huge endorsement.

[DraftBoy]

Im in no way encouraging the Bills to take Ayers 11th overall. I wouldn't be upset about it either though. The kid obviously has something though that scouts are seeing cuz he is shooting up boards.

Mayock having him as his #5 overall prospect is a huge endorsement.

I think that's more Mayock trying to get some attention than it an endorsement. He is known by most draft followers as the top guy but not by your casual fan and he's trying to gain some big time attention. Im not sure Id do it this way, but it is intriguing to at least read and makes me feel a little better about taking him at 11 if we were too though I still dont like it.

[bigbub2352]

Its not all about the sacks, I dont know why people get so hung up on that.

We all got youtube DB, i have watched tape on him he is not that disruptive and also took him till his SR year to secure a starting position, if it is not all about the sacks then why are we even looking for DE help
We got bums on this team who do the whole hold up against the run crap and provide bannana routes to the QB so he can convienently step up in the pockets and make there throws and check downs

We need a disruptive proven pass rusher if we are goin to use the 11th overall pick on a DE if not then draft your starting OLB at 11, we need playmakers

I am hung up on sacks cause when u pressure the QB it makes everything else better, ur secondary, ur LBers, all benefit from hassling the QB

Our Scheme Sucks the Cover 2 is dead so why draft a player for it when all of our coaches wont be here next year?

Pass rush is the most important component to any Defensive Scheme it all starts with the DLine, a guy coming out of college with 4 sacks is not worth the money at 11 that you will pay him to develop for 3 yrs

this defense doesnt put fear in anyone and Schobel and Kelsay scare nobody hence why we need a pure pass rusher not a guy who fits the scheme

[DraftBoy]

We all got youtube DB, i have watched tape on him he is not that disruptive and also took him till his SR year to secure a starting position, if it is not all about the sacks then why are we even looking for DE help
We got bums on this team who do the whole hold up against the run crap and provide bannana routes to the QB so he can convienently step up in the pockets and make there throws and check downs

We need a disruptive proven pass rusher if we are goin to use the 11th overall pick on a DE if not then draft your starting OLB at 11, we need playmakers

I am hung up on sacks cause when u pressure the QB it makes everything else better, ur secondary, ur LBers, all benefit from hassling the QB

Our Scheme Sucks the Cover 2 is dead so why draft a player for it when all of our coaches wont be here next year?

Pass rush is the most important component to any Defensive Scheme it all starts with the DLine, a guy coming out of college with 4 sacks is not worth the money at 11 that you will pay him to develop for 3 yrs

this defense doesnt put fear in anyone and Schobel and Kelsay scare nobody hence why we need a pure pass rusher not a guy who fits the scheme


What the hell does youtube tell you? That's your "tape"?

He is actually very disruptive, has a great first step, solid balance, surprising athleticism and a good punch. He can go outside against slower OT's or swim inside against more aggressive ones. He doesnt have your full compliment of pass rush moves yet but he has more than most of the current DE prospects. His issue is just a lack of PT so far. He needs a lot of time and coaching to get the techniques down. He can get sloppy and Fulmer was an ididot with him and let him float alot so he needs to be coached by a good DL coach who I think we now have in Sanders.

[HHURRICANE]

Its not all about the sacks, I dont know why people get so hung up on that.

I'm not sure I just read this? Sacks aren't everything but the Bills lack a disruptive force at DE. QBs have all day with our line.

The Bills have to take guy in the draft that has the best shot at getting to the QB. Ayers is not that guy.

[bigbub2352]

That a ridiculous statement to make. You dont even know what Ayers will be like to call him not a playmaker or even a stop gap is just grasping at this point. The fact is that the kid got progressively better with time at Tennessee and against the best the Senior Class had to offer he was a dominant force. Stats tells us some thing but not even close to the whole story.

And it wasn't even that he was not productive his senior year because he was, you are focusing on one sole stat like it tells you everything you need to know about the player, which is not true even in the slightest bit.

Did you watch full games of this kids career ? or highlights? or did u read on some draftcentral website about him?

Ayers had 4 sacks he plays DE that is the most telling stat sorry man you over analyze everyone's comments like you know so much more than everyone else about prospects when you are reading from someone else's opinions on other sites,
4 sacks is not worth the 11th overall pick any way u wanna argue it sorry
We got these type players already, we need someone who can consistently provide a pass rush, If the sack is not as important as u say? then how come pass rushers are the hottest commodity in Free Agency and the draft?

How come these guys get paid so much to rush the passer? how come they are valued so much? because pass rush in any scheme is the most important thing. Ask the Giants how they beat NE...

[TigerJ]

I realize Flowers was a huge bust for the Bills, but that shouldn't keep them from drafting another DE. Each guy succeeds or fails on his own merit.

Also, while Flowers may have been similar athletically to Ayers, he was more of a DE/OLB-tweener. He didn't anchor or play with power on the DL like Ayers is supposed to do. Different players.

Keep in mind, Flowers wasn't an underachiever in college. He had a huge senior season at Arizona State, notching double-digit sacks. He was all over the field as a college player, a real terror. His problem was more not having a true position as a pro, he didn't quite fit as a 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB, he was a 'tweener. Ayers is a better fit for the NFL.

Wheniver a fan doesn't like a defensive end prospect, he pulls out Flowers, who was the most recent Bills first round DE Bust. He wasn't the only Bills first round DE bust by any means. To refresh our memories, Eric Flowers was light as a college player and bulked up for the combine. He had a great combine. I would say he was regarded pretty much as a pure pass rusher when the Bills drafted him.

Robert Ayers, as far as I know, played at or near his current weight when he was in college. He is known as an end with an all around game. In the 4-3 system, he is a pure defensive end though he might move to a rush linebacker spot in a 3-4 system. I still think end is his more natural position. I really don't think there are many similarities between Ayers and Flowers, beyond the fear some have that he'll be a bust. I do think there is risk picking him at #11, but there is with most players Buffalo could pick at that spot.

[bigbub2352]

What the hell does youtube tell you? That's your "tape"?

He is actually very disruptive, has a great first step, solid balance, surprising athleticism and a good punch. He can go outside against slower OT's or swim inside against more aggressive ones. He doesnt have your full compliment of pass rush moves yet but he has more than most of the current DE prospects. His issue is just a lack of PT so far. He needs a lot of time and coaching to get the techniques down. He can get sloppy and Fulmer was an ididot with him and let him float alot so he needs to be coached by a good DL coach who I think we now have in Sanders.

Again regurgatating someone's else stuff on here, i have been on this site along time to DB, ur a kid with a computer just like the rest of us, did u play football in Real life?

I watched the same tape you did because news flash the kid doesnt have many highlights

I played the game a long time and i think when a kid cant get more than 4 sacks and started all yr he is not a top flight prospect, he is a combine hero who is being over hyped by Mayock and Kiper, nothing more it happens every single yr and will always happen

its about production nothing more Pass Rush is the biggest problem we have so lets take a kid with some chance to develop some pass rushing skills cause he fits our scheme and mite develop into a prospect that could very well some day rush the passer consistently but in the mean time will be great against the run
COME ON
we need playmakers pass rush energy on our D someone to strike fear in opponents not some stop gap work out hero who has potential ala Flowers

Playmakers
Fear
Passion
Wildman mentality
We need someone to stop brady from picking us apart every single yr

[bigbub2352]

Wheniver a fan doesn't like a defensive end prospect, he pulls out Flowers, who was the most recent Bills first round DE Bust. He wasn't the only Bills first round DE bust by any means. To refresh our memories, Eric Flowers was light as a college player and bulked up for the combine. He had a great combine. I would say he was regarded pretty much as a pure pass rusher when the Bills drafted him.

Robert Ayers, as far as I know, played at or near his current weight when he was in college. He is known as an end with an all around game. In the 4-3 system, he is a pure defensive end though he might move to a rush linebacker spot in a 3-4 system. I still think end is his more natural position. I really don't think there are many similarities between Ayers and Flowers, beyond the fear some have that he'll be a bust. I do think there is risk picking him at #11, but there is with most players Buffalo could pick at that spot.

No problem add kelsay, Denney as 2nd Rd busts, Ellis as a potential 3rd Round bust and Schobel as a extremely over valued and over paid DE who is on his last leg and most of his sacks came in very unimportant times

then there are the awesome FAs we brought in
Anthony Hargrove
Al Wallace
Eric Powell
Jason Jefferson
Constantine Ritzman
Copeland bryan

Sorry we have been real scary at De

[DraftBoy]

I'm not sure I just read this? Sacks aren't everything but the Bills lack a disruptive force at DE. QBs have all day with our line.

The Bills have to take guy in the draft that has the best shot at getting to the QB. Ayers is not that guy.

No the Bills do not have to take the best guy at getting the QB. They need to take the most all around disruptive end they can find. We have a proven pass rusher in Schobel we drafted a pass rusher in Ellis. We need to find a true #1 DE compliment who plays the pass and run well Ayers is that kind of a guy which is why he makes a ton of sense for us.

[DraftBoy]

Did you watch full games of this kids career ? or highlights? or did u read on some draftcentral website about him?

Ayers had 4 sacks he plays DE that is the most telling stat sorry man you over analyze everyone's comments like you know so much more than everyone else about prospects when you are reading from someone else's opinions on other sites,
4 sacks is not worth the 11th overall pick any way u wanna argue it sorry
We got these type players already, we need someone who can consistently provide a pass rush, If the sack is not as important as u say? then how come pass rushers are the hottest commodity in Free Agency and the draft?

How come these guys get paid so much to rush the passer? how come they are valued so much? because pass rush in any scheme is the most important thing. Ask the Giants how they beat NE...

Ive seen 15 games Ayers played in (7 from this season). I don't watch highlights, they are a waste of time.

Sacks don't even tell a quarter of the story actually on this kid. Im not going to argue with somebody who has a predisposed opinion that Im getting all my stuff from other sites or that stats tell you everything. Its a waste of time.

[DraftBoy]

Again regurgatating someone's else stuff on here, i have been on this site along time to DB, ur a kid with a computer just like the rest of us, did u play football in Real life?

I watched the same tape you did because news flash the kid doesnt have many highlights

I played the game a long time and i think when a kid cant get more than 4 sacks and started all yr he is not a top flight prospect, he is a combine hero who is being over hyped by Mayock and Kiper, nothing more it happens every single yr and will always happen

its about production nothing more Pass Rush is the biggest problem we have so lets take a kid with some chance to develop some pass rushing skills cause he fits our scheme and mite develop into a prospect that could very well some day rush the passer consistently but in the mean time will be great against the run
COME ON
we need playmakers pass rush energy on our D someone to strike fear in opponents not some stop gap work out hero who has potential ala Flowers

Playmakers
Fear
Passion
Wildman mentality
We need someone to stop brady from picking us apart every single yr

Whose stuff am I regugatating? Don't just throw out accusations, at least back it up.

[bigbub2352]

Ive seen 15 games Ayers played in (7 from this season). I don't watch highlights, they are a waste of time.

Sacks don't even tell a quarter of the story actually on this kid. Im not going to argue with somebody who has a predisposed opinion that Im getting all my stuff from other sites or that stats tell you everything. Its a waste of time.

It sure is

[DraftBoy]

No problem add kelsay, Denney as 2nd Rd busts, Ellis as a potential 3rd Round bust and Schobel as a extremely over valued and over paid DE who is on his last leg and most of his sacks came in very unimportant times

then there are the awesome FAs we brought in
Anthony Hargrove
Al Wallace
Eric Powell
Jason Jefferson
Constantine Ritzman
Copeland bryan

Sorry we have been real scary at De

Calling a guy a potential bust after one year and limited PT? Come on you can't be serious.

[DraftBoy]

It sure is

See we can agree!

[bigbub2352]

Whose stuff am I regugatating? Don't just throw out accusations, at least back it up.
God go to any draft website there is only 400 of them and read the 30 draft magazines they all say the same stuff
They just change there mocks when Free agents are signed

[DraftBoy]

God go to any draft website there is only 400 of them and read the 30 draft magazines they all say the same stuff
They just change there mocks when Free agents are signed


Go ahead and quote a few that match my analysis then. Since there are only 430 other sources. Don't worry Ill wait. Don't just be the guy who throws out accusations and can't back it up. Show all of us that Ive been a fraud for all these years. This should be good.

[bigbub2352]

Calling a guy a potential bust after one year and limited PT? Come on you can't be serious.

Yeah he sure justified why we pciked him in the 3rd round, it sure is a good thing he was inactive half the time till we ended up IRing him for the famous high ankle sprain

I hope i am dead wrong about Ellis
But he has to show something this guy couldnt even get to the QB in the preseason

[DraftBoy]

Yeah he sure justified why we pciked him in the 3rd round, it sure is a good thing he was inactive half the time till we ended up IRing him for the famous high ankle sprain

I hope i am dead wrong about Ellis
But he has to show something this guy couldnt even get to the QB in the preseason

He was a project pick when he was taken. I think he was taken too high and Im not big on him but to call him a potential bust already is a big time overreaction.

[Mahdi]

Again regurgatating someone's else stuff on here, i have been on this site along time to DB, ur a kid with a computer just like the rest of us, did u play football in Real life?

I watched the same tape you did because news flash the kid doesnt have many highlights

I played the game a long time and i think when a kid cant get more than 4 sacks and started all yr he is not a top flight prospect, he is a combine hero who is being over hyped by Mayock and Kiper, nothing more it happens every single yr and will always happen

its about production nothing more Pass Rush is the biggest problem we have so lets take a kid with some chance to develop some pass rushing skills cause he fits our scheme and mite develop into a prospect that could very well some day rush the passer consistently but in the mean time will be great against the run
COME ON
we need playmakers pass rush energy on our D someone to strike fear in opponents not some stop gap work out hero who has potential ala Flowers

Playmakers
Fear
Passion
Wildman mentality
We need someone to stop brady from picking us apart every single yr
Ayers plays with his A$$ on fire and has a lot of versatility. He can kick inside on passing downs and give us a pass rush similar to what Tuck does in NY.

[bigbub2352]

Go ahead and quote a few that match my analysis then. Since there are only 430 other sources. Don't worry Ill wait. Don't just be the guy who throws out accusations and can't back it up. Show all of us that Ive been a fraud for all these years. This should be good.

Bro i am not calling u a fraud at all, i appreciate what you do many times over for this website and all you do for the Draft dont get me wrong i am just argueing with you about Ayers im not trying to accuse you of being a fraud at all i apologize if you thought that

But we all know that draft analaysis is all over the place and i am sure you do research those sites and formulate opinions based on them otherwise you have a true sickness for the Draft if that is the case then i will shut my mouth

Also you do a great job on here so i am not down playing that either
Ayers is not the right choice at 11 and neither would Tyson Jackson who i think the Bills luv as well at 11, we need pass rushers not guys who fit the system all the time cause our system doesnt work

I know the game i played the game sometimes i get so frustrated as a fan it spills out on here cause for the last 10 yrs we consistently do the wrong ****ing thing

[bigbub2352]

He was a project pick when he was taken. I think he was taken too high and Im not big on him but to call him a potential bust already is a big time overreaction.
all we ever draft is project players, when are we gonna draft a stud?

[bigbub2352]

Ayers plays with his A$$ on fire and has a lot of versatility. He can kick inside on passing downs and give us a pass rush similar to what Tuck does in NY.
as usaul i hope ur right and i am dead wrong

[Mahdi]

Bro i am not calling u a fraud at all, i appreciate what you do many times over for this website and all you do for the Draft dont get me wrong i am just argueing with you about Ayers im not trying to accuse you of being a fraud at all i apologize if you thought that

But we all know that draft analaysis is all over the place and i am sure you do research those sites and formulate opinions based on them otherwise you have a true sickness for the Draft if that is the case then i will shut my mouth

Also you do a great job on here so i am not down playing that either
Ayers is not the right choice at 11 and neither would Tyson Jackson who i think the Bills luv as well at 11, we need pass rushers not guys who fit the system all the time cause our system doesnt work

I know the game i played the game sometimes i get so frustrated as a fan it spills out on here cause for the last 10 yrs we consistently do the wrong ****ing thing
I can guarantee you Tyson Jackson will not be drafted by Buffalo. The guy is 6'4 295. Almost the same size as our DTs. In our scheme he is a 3-technique DT.

[DraftBoy]

Bro i am not calling u a fraud at all, i appreciate what you do many times over for this website and all you do for the Draft dont get me wrong i am just argueing with you about Ayers im not trying to accuse you of being a fraud at all i apologize if you thought that

But we all know that draft analaysis is all over the place and i am sure you do research those sites and formulate opinions based on them otherwise you have a true sickness for the Draft if that is the case then i will shut my mouth

Also you do a great job on here so i am not down playing that either
Ayers is not the right choice at 11 and neither would Tyson Jackson who i think the Bills luv as well at 11, we need pass rushers not guys who fit the system all the time cause our system doesnt work

I know the game i played the game sometimes i get so frustrated as a fan it spills out on here cause for the last 10 yrs we consistently do the wrong ****ing thing


I appreciate the apologize. I do read other sites but not to forumlate opinions but to read what others write. Jackson is a 3-4 DE and if the Bills take him they are dumber that I worried about.

I dont think we need pass rushers though, I think we need complete DE's. We've taken "pass rushers" recently and what have we gotten to show for it? Not much, lets try and different approach. If you look at some successful DE's in the past like Freeney, Peppers, KGB, and Tuck what do you see that they have that makes them successful. They have ends on the other side who play the run and pass well and are all around good DE's. Freeney has Mathis, Peppers had Rucker, KGB had Kampman, Tuck has Osi. Hell even Bruce had Hansen to compliment him. Ayers is that compliment type of a guy. And that's not a knock considering most of these guys like your Kampman's, Hansen's, Osi's, Mathis's, Howard's average around 50 tackles and 8-10 sacks a season. I think that would be huge for this team and do a ton to free up Schobel or Ellis on passing downs.

[bigbub2352]

I can guarantee you Tyson Jackson will not be drafted by Buffalo. The guy is 6'4 295. Almost the same size as our DTs. In our scheme he is a 3-technique DT.

hope ur right and i am dead wrong

[DraftBoy]

all we ever draft is project players, when are we gonna draft a stud?

We've tried that and missed with Williams. Realistically unless your top 5 you're not going to have a shot at getting a proven stud and even then its a lot of guess work.

[Dr. Lecter]

Yeah he sure justified why we pciked him in the 3rd round, it sure is a good thing he was inactive half the time till we ended up IRing him for the famous high ankle sprain

I hope i am dead wrong about Ellis
But he has to show something this guy couldnt even get to the QB in the preseason

Crowell was a 3rd round pick. He was inactive for half the games his rookie season.

And you want him back.

[bigbub2352]

I appreciate the apologize. I do read other sites but not to forumlate opinions but to read what others write. Jackson is a 3-4 DE and if the Bills take him they are dumber that I worried about.

I dont think we need pass rushers though, I think we need complete DE's. We've taken "pass rushers" recently and what have we gotten to show for it? Not much, lets try and different approach. If you look at some successful DE's in the past like Freeney, Peppers, KGB, and Tuck what do you see that they have that makes them successful. They have ends on the other side who play the run and pass well and are all around good DE's. Freeney has Mathis, Peppers had Rucker, KGB had Kampman, Tuck has Osi. Hell even Bruce had Hansen to compliment him. Ayers is that compliment type of a guy. And that's not a knock considering most of these guys like your Kampman's, Hansen's, Osi's, Mathis's, Howard's average around 50 tackles and 8-10 sacks a season. I think that would be huge for this team and do a ton to free up Schobel or Ellis on passing downs.

i see exatcly were your coming from, but i gotta say how much does schobel have left in the tank, he wasnt very effective in rushing the passer the yr before he got hurt, we all know Kelsay and Denney are awful at rushing the passer and Ellis has alot to prove, i think we need to wait and see who will fall to 11, Maybin, Brown, Orakapo, Raji, any of them are there at 11 u still take Ayers?
i hope not

[Dr. Lecter]

i see exatcly were your coming from, but i gotta say how much does schobel have left in the tank, he wasnt very effective in rushing the passer the yr before he got hurt, we all know Kelsay and Denney are awful at rushing the passer and Ellis has alot to prove, i think we need to wait and see who will fall to 11, Maybin, Brown, Orakapo, Raji, any of them are there at 11 u still take Ayers?
i hope not

Just as an aside - As a #3 DE Denney is fine. He gets decent pressure, gets some sacks, is OK against the run and uses his height to knock passes very well.

Is he an All-pro? Hell no. But he is a fine #3 DE and that is what his role is supposed to be.

[bigbub2352]

Crowell was a 3rd round pick. He was inactive for half the games his rookie season.

And you want him back.
i am not labeling Ellis a bust at all i said potential bust do to his lack of anything last yr, that guy didnt even give us a ray of hope at all when playing

Crowell if i am not mistaken when active showed he belonged on the active roster by making plays on STs and also spot duty at LBer then spelling the vets when they got hurt the following yr and provided to good to sit

I hope Ellis develops into the next Justin Tuck all day long, but right now he has shown less then Tim Anderson did his first yr here so again i will say potential bust

[DraftBoy]

i see exatcly were your coming from, but i gotta say how much does schobel have left in the tank, he wasnt very effective in rushing the passer the yr before he got hurt, we all know Kelsay and Denney are awful at rushing the passer and Ellis has alot to prove, i think we need to wait and see who will fall to 11, Maybin, Brown, Orakapo, Raji, any of them are there at 11 u still take Ayers?
i hope not

Id take Raji over Ayers and never look back but the rest I dont really see as 4-3 DE's and I have lots of questions about Orakpo's game still.

[Dr. Lecter]

Nobody showed less than Tim Anderson. Let's not go too far.

[DraftBoy]

i am not labeling Ellis a bust at all i said potential bust do to his lack of anything last yr, that guy didnt even give us a ray of hope at all when playing

Crowell if i am not mistaken when active showed he belonged on the active roster by making plays on STs and also spot duty at LBer then spelling the vets when they got hurt the following yr and provided to good to sit

I hope Ellis develops into the next Justin Tuck all day long, but right now he has shown less then Tim Anderson did his first yr here so again i will say potential bust

Ellis made some dumbass mistakes no doubt and looked lost at times. However I remeber two plays particularly when he tore through the OT and got pressure on the QB and forced an incomplete hurried pass. He has the ability but the consistency is his big issue.

[bigbub2352]

Just as an aside - As a #3 DE Denney is fine. He gets decent pressure, gets some sacks, is OK against the run and uses his height to knock passes very well.

Is he an All-pro? Hell no. But he is a fine #3 DE and that is what his role is supposed to be.

agreed a fine backup who gets very little pass rush and gets run over against the run, but a backup making 4mil a season i can do without if we would have signed someone better or drafted someone better we would not be missed at all on this defense

Denney got 2 of his 4 sacks in one game so that means 2 over the next 15 aint scaring anyone

We need to get away from these guys they are not gonna get any better and are being paid alot of money, we need to revamp this position and cant cause we have to many needs in other places

[EDS]

Nobody showed less than Tim Anderson. Let's not go too far.

Bucky Brooks (wide receiver obviously but how often is it a second round pick can't even make the team)?

[bigbub2352]

Id take Raji over Ayers and never look back but the rest I dont really see as 4-3 DE's and I have lots of questions about Orakpo's game still.
Personally i never want to draft a player from Texas in the 1st round again
Orakapo has workout warrior written all over him, i think my preferance is Raji as well he would change the D all together next to stroud and put alot less emphasis on the DEs

[Dr. Lecter]

agreed a fine backup who gets very little pass rush and gets run over against the run, but a backup making 4mil a season i can do without if we would have signed someone better or drafted someone better we would not be missed at all on this defense

Denney got 2 of his 4 sacks in one game so that means 2 over the next 15 aint scaring anyone

We need to get away from these guys they are not gonna get any better and are being paid alot of money, we need to revamp this position and cant cause we have to many needs in other places

Denney makes 2.3 million, not 4 million, so the price is not that bad.

[DraftBoy]

Bucky Brooks (wide receiver obviously but how often is it a second round pick can't even make the team)?

Id argue Tim Anderson didnt deserve to make the team either.

[HHURRICANE]

i am not labeling Ellis a bust at all i said potential bust do to his lack of anything last yr, that guy didnt even give us a ray of hope at all when playing

Crowell if i am not mistaken when active showed he belonged on the active roster by making plays on STs and also spot duty at LBer then spelling the vets when they got hurt the following yr and provided to good to sit

I hope Ellis develops into the next Justin Tuck all day long, but right now he has shown less then Tim Anderson did his first yr here so again i will say potential bust

Can I say that Ellis is a bust?

[bigbub2352]

Can I say that Ellis is a bust?
potential bust is ok i guess...

[bigbub2352]

Denney makes 2.3 million, not 4 million, so the price is not that bad.
i thought i read he counts 4mil to the cap this season either way i still think he is replaceable

[Raptor]

G.Hardy- 8.5 sacks
R.Ayers- 3 sacks

Guess which one the made first team defense on the ALL SEC team?

I'm with draftboy Stats never tell the whole story. I've been to a couple SEC MB's and they all same the same thing R.Ayers can not be blocked one on one and you would be hard pressed to find any tape of him not being doubled

[DraftBoy]

G.Hardy- 8.5 sacks
R.Ayers- 3 sacks

Guess which one the made first team defense on the ALL SEC team?

I'm with draftboy Stats never tell the whole story. I've been to a couple SEC MB's and they all same the same thing R.Ayers can not be blocked one on one and you would be hard pressed to find any tape of him not being doubled

Hardy is a hell of a prospect in his own right though. He played this entire season at below 100%. Next year he could be in for a huge year!

[WeAreArthurMoates]

I'm with draftboy Stats never tell the whole story. I've been to a couple SEC MB's and they all same the same thing R.Ayers can not be blocked one on one and you would be hard pressed to find any tape of him not being doubled<!-- / message -->

I agree I like Ayers if we get him reach or not. 3 sacks isn't that impressive but 15.5 tkls for loss is. Ayers was continued double teams and tripled team. If we don't sign a LBer though our first pick has to be Cushing or Mauluga, unless Raji on the board then you jump on him.

[mysticsoto]

potential bust is ok i guess...

For that matter, everybody drafted is a potential bust...

[Dr. Lecter]

For that matter, everybody drafted is a potential bust...

Unless endorsed by DraftBoy.

He has NEVER been wrong!!!!!!!!

[DraftBoy]

I agree I like Ayers if we get him reach or not. 3 sacks isn't that impressive but 15.5 tkls for loss is. Ayers was continued double teams and tripled team. If we don't sign a LBer though our first pick has to be Cushing or Mauluga, unless Raji on the board then you jump on him.

I can't think of a moment where Ayers was triple teamed. He got chipped a lot by the TE and RB which is why Fulmer allowed him to float some on D to avoid that but then they would double down with the OG. One place Ayers can really excel though is on the stunt. If the OG is even a step slow Ayers will blow by him and get to the backfield. He's very good at that play specifically.

[DraftBoy]

Unless endorsed by DraftBoy.

He has NEVER been wrong!!!!!!!!

This is true.

Minus the whole Matt Ryan thing...

[mysticsoto]

This is true.

Minus the whole Matt Ryan thing...

And you will be wrong this year again if you don't listen to me and pick Stafford to Detroit... There's still time for you to change your mind and not have to be wrong again. :D

[Dr. Lecter]

And you will be wrong this year again if you don't listen to me and pick Stafford to Detroit... There's still time for you to change your mind and not have to be wrong again. :D

DB is right this time.

Stafford is not going to Detroit.

[mysticsoto]

DB is right this time.

Stafford is not going to Detroit.

We shall see...

[Bill Cody]

Justin Tuck was a hell of a lot more productive in college than Ayers was and he lasted until the 3rd round. No way Ayers is a good pick at #11. Late 1st early second maybe. We have to hope Orakpo is still on the board.

[Kenny]

Justin Tuck was a hell of a lot more productive in college than Ayers was and he lasted until the 3rd round. No way Ayers is a good pick at #11. Late 1st early second maybe. We have to hope Orakpo is still on the board.

I havent been following this lately, but why isnt everyone in love withEverette Brown anymore? Bad combine? Too small?

[DraftBoy]

I havent been following this lately, but why isnt everyone in love withEverette Brown anymore? Bad combine? Too small?

Not a fit for our system.

[X-Era]

Not a fit for our system.

If you follow the rigid rule book, and dont allow for anyone to grow into a new position.

[DraftBoy]

If you follow the rigid rule book, and dont allow for anyone to grow into a new position.

Or if you know how NFL defenses work and what each position is asked to do and then apply that to what players are good or bad at.

[Michael82]

What a nice debate between DraftBoy and bub. The funny thing is that bub is stating DB's point by *****ing about Kelsay and Denney and saying that those are the DE's we need to replace. Aren't they the LDE's that would fit perfectly for a guy like Ayers?

[Michael82]

As for my thoughts. Ayers would be the perfect choice for us if we could trade down...or maybe he would be there at the bottom of the 1st round and we could trade up from the 2nd round if we pick a LB at pick 11.

[yordad]

How about Orakpo in the first, and Ayers in the second. Booya. Bookends of the future (the very near future).

[Mahdi]

How about Orakpo in the first, and Ayers in the second. Booya. Bookends of the future (the very near future).
Ayers wont last to the second round. No way.

I like the idea of taking 2 DEs in the first and second though. Ayers @11 and Sidbury in the second is more realistic.

OR

Maybin, Orakpo, Brown, Johnson, English @ 11 and Jarron Gilbert in the second. Gilbert can play DE and DT. The Bills can play him at DE on first and second down then kick him inside on passing downs.

[yordad]

Ayers wont last to the second round. No way.

I like the idea of taking 2 DEs in the first and second though. Ayers @11 and Sidbury in the second is more realistic.

OR

Maybin, Orakpo, Brown, Johnson, English @ 11 and Jarron Gilbert in the second. Gilbert can play DE and DT. The Bills can play him at DE on first and second down then kick him inside on passing downs.It just seems there is an abundance of quality DEs this year. They all have question marks. There is a log jam after the first guy, IMO. After Orakpo, there may be 6 others picked in the first or 2nd. There are like 10 worth a second. Seems anyone of half a dozen might be there for us in the second. I get a headache trying to decide which one of the ones most likely to be there that I would rather have.

I don't see how Ayers is a top 15 prospect, or even a top 30, really. Anything can happen. If Orakpo is gone, all kinds of things could happen since I don't see a significant enough difference between the best of the rest to justify talking anyone else (DE) at 11.

[acehole]

1.R Ayers DE can play some DT also
1A. B Pettigrew TE (Trade Peters to philly)
2. Max Unger C/G


The rest will follow later.

[DraftBoy]

1.R Ayers DE can play some DT also
1A. B Pettigrew TE (Trade Peters to philly)
2. Max Unger C/G


The rest will follow later.

Ayers is 260's, how is he going to play DT? And why would you want him to?

[bigbub2352]

What a nice debate between DraftBoy and bub. The funny thing is that bub is stating DB's point by *****ing about Kelsay and Denney and saying that those are the DE's we need to replace. Aren't they the LDE's that would fit perfectly for a guy like Ayers?

Yes it would but wouldnt you potentially be replacing 2 guys that cant rush the passer with another one who in college had trouble rushing the passer?
i was just stating the case that we have had enough stop gap DEs here that fit our crap Scheme
We need playmakers that reak havoc on the QB nothing more, if Ayers is that guy good i will be the first to post i was dead wrong about him
Also if it is someone proven in college like Brown, English, Maybin, Orakapo
i will be just as happy
I just want a DE who can rush the passer who it is matters not

[acehole]

Ayers is 260's, how is he going to play DT? And why would you want him to?

Third downs......he can play some DT I was reading.

My point is is that he is flexible player in a system that rotates guys.

Mayock has him rated high...

Mayock had witner rated high...

We picked Witner.

We had him in...

Do you see where this is going?

[mysticsoto]

DB is right this time.

Stafford is not going to Detroit.

Now I see why DB left...he couldn't face me again.

Lecter, you may begin your groveling... :D

[Tatonka]

Now I see why DB left...he couldn't face me again.

Lecter, you may begin your groveling... :D

DB left?