Draft 2003 Mine or Theirs you decide!

[kgun12]

Ok there has been a lot of debate over the McGaHee pick and for good reason. No matter what side you are on you MUST admit, we didn't need to add at RB. We needed to address depthed at other positions more. Having said that let me show you how I would have picked. We all were hoping for Boss Bailey E. J. Henderson or a good DE in round one surprize! So here is how I would have picked You can go to your favorite draft guide to look up these players, but I used www.profootballweekly.com (http://) for this.

Here is The Bills picks

2003 BILLS DRAFT PICKS
RD(PK) NAME POS SCHOOL
1(23) WILLIS MCGAHEE RB MIAMI (FLA.)
2(16) (48)CHRIS KELSAY DE NEBRASKA
3(30) (94)ANGELO CROWELL ILB VIRGINIA ((6-0, 236, 4.74) | VIRGINIA Small)
4(14) (111)TERRENCE MCGEE CB NORTHWESTERN ST (Weathersby)
4(30) (127)SAM AIKEN WR NORTH CAROLINA (addresed later)
5(16) (151)BEN SOBIESKI OG IOWA ( too many injuries!)
6(14) (187)LAUVALE SAPE DT UTAH (Lowest score on wonderlicToo Small(6-1, 297, 5.19 | UTAH)

7(14) (228)MARIO HAGGAN MLB MISSISSIPPI STATE (good pick)

Here are my pick's

1. Bailey LB
2. Kelsay DT
3. Weathersby CB
This is the player that you take a chance on, he should be ready for camp. Could fight for Nickle back, and good insurance if we lose Winfield!
4. Scott DT (6-2, 312, 5.14) | FLORIDA
4a. Ian Sciullo OT(6-5, 330, 5.48) | MARSHALL. I would have traded pick 127 and 151 with Indy to get this guy. Will push to start in Indy!
6. Arnaz Battle WR (6-0, 217, 4.65) | NOTRE DAME Just like Aiken.
7. Haggen Could be a sleeper!

The Bills got a:
RB, DE, LB, CB, WR, OL, DT, LB. I got everything but a RB, but then again we didn't need one! These guys would have added MUCH better depthed and quality IMHO.

I also think these guys will be better player than the one the Bills pick. It will be interesting to see in 3 years.

What do you think, Let me know!

[SABURZFAN]

not too bad kgun.since i'll go along with this,this is what i would have done if i were in TD's shoes.

1.w.joseph-DT-miami fla
2.kelsay-i like that pick
3.b.james-LB-LSU
4.r.long-DT-Washington St
4t.holt-S-NCST
5.d.koppen-C-Boston College
6.m.ogden-T-Howard-brother of j.ogden-Ravens
7t.tucker-G-Southern Miss-didn't even get drafted which surprised mei feel that he's better than sobieski


i felt that we needed to upgrade the line on both sides of the ball.there were a lot of good big men in this draft to do it.i feel that winfield won't go anywhere and a WR could be gotten somewhere down the line.(Free Agency)

[The Spaz]

Well Weathersby was taken 1st pick in the 4th round and Rien Long was taken 1 pick in front of us in the 4th by the Titans. Go Bills!

[TedMock]

I was actually hoping for Weathersby in the 3rd and I was actually positive we were taking Joseph in the 1st. I think most people were positive we were taking Joseph. Kelsay was a no-brainer in the 2nd or we would've gone after Rien Long in the 3rd. I'm not sold on Boss Bailey though.

[HenryRules]

Personally, I like the Bills draft.

Bailey as a first-rounder is worse than McGahee IMO, he may provide depth this year, but he doesn't have the high potential Willis has. First-rounders should be for future stars, free agency before and after June 1st can be used to pick up depth players.

Pre-shooting I would have liked Weathersby in the third, but I think getting shot raises some character issues and I don't think drafting a player with poor character who must rehab on the first day is a good idea. I don't know the story behind Weathersby's shooting, so I can't say that I am 100%, but even if it wasn't his fault, he put himself in a bad position at a key time (obviously, if he was just going to the corner store and a guy holding up the store shot him as he fled or something similar, what I just said is wrong).

Day 2 picks I don't know enough to comment on. However, considering that I like the front office's day 1 versus your day 1, I'd say overall I'd probably like the front office's choices.

Having said that, there is one problem with evaluating the entire draft this way, you can't say for sure what other teams would have done in response to your moves ... say the Bills did take Bailey or Joseph ... who's to say that Kelsay drops to them in the 2nd? In the first round, the Bills have taken one more defensive player off the board and teams may choose to take Kelsay where they took Bailey or Joseph (or they may be a more complicated trickle-down effect). A single different choice, especially at the top, can drastically change the way that the draft unfolds and cause different players to be chosen in different spots/rounds.

[lordofgun]

HR, I'm pretty sure Weathersby was just hanging out where he grew up. I think I heard he wasn't even a target, just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Can't fault a guy for being home minding his own business. Just a FYI.

[HenryRules]

LOG, thanks. That basically means that what I said about Weathersby was wrong.

IMO, that makes kgun's Weathersby pick about equal to the Bills Crowell pick which still makes the actual draft better.

[Gunzlingr]

Weathersby was shot coming home from Church on Easter Sunday. The guy was like a 4 time academic all- american. Cant say the guy has bad character.

[HenryRules]

GZ, I already said i was wrong.

[BillsNYC]

We took the best player available by FAR in McGahee and the only one worth a first rounder. I like TD's draft as of now.

[kgun12]

Some of you have miss the point of the McGaHee pick. He was not a need! I don't think an 8-8 team has the luxury of takiing a huge chance on a guy coming off his 3rd major knee operation before his 24th b-day, NOT to mention it's the only position that we didn't need help in.

Second I agree with HR about looking at the draft this way, but go back and look at every round (ESPN has a draft tracker) the players available to us in rounds 1-4 or 5 was amazing. I just don't understand why we picked a RB with knee problem, a smaller LB, a CB from a small school, a OL with a injury problems, a DT dumber than a rock a slow WR. This draft wasn't the strongest true, I just don't like how this one played out, BUT time will tell.

[Demon]

Originally posted by SABURZFAN

1.w.joseph-DT-miami fla
2.kelsay-i like that pick
3.b.james-LB-LSU
4.r.long-DT-Washington St
4t.holt-S-NCST
5.d.koppen-C-Boston College
6.m.ogden-T-Howard-brother of j.ogden-Ravens
7t.tucker-G-Southern Miss-didn't even get drafted which surprised mei feel that he's better than sobieski


I really like this draft. Only difference i would do is draft Angelo Crowell in the 3rd round instead of James just like we did. With Posey and Spikes we have size and even Spoon, Crowell is a quick LB but small, kinda like a Dwight Frenney just not with all that skill.

[DraftBoy]

We dont have any need to try and draft starters or anybody who will push for immediate playing time. These guys are all high potential picks with some rough spots in there previous careers. They all need time to heal up and train. This draft was all about depth for TD, let me break it down how I see this draft:

1. McGahee-Wont be ready till 2004 no rush on him, but could be the biggest steal in the draft

2. Kelsay-Only immediate need pick we needed was a pass rushing DE

3. Crowell-Smallish LB needs some time to learn the system and bulk up

4a. Terence McGee-Project CB who needs time to adapt to higher paced much more intense play. Standout Div II player, but this is the big boys

4b. Sam Aiken-Great pick here, good 3rd WR to challenge Shaw but played in ACC, one of the weaker football confrences, will need time to find his role in Gilbride's offense

5. Ben Sobieski- Was touted as a highly productive player coming into Iowa has had numerous naggin injuries but played well last year relatively injury free. Needs time to mend and find a posistion.

6. Lauvale Sapp- 6-1 DT at 297 is kinda small but if he adds 20 pounds he could be a force. Kid isnt very bright but Id be willing to bet half of the players out there cant spell correctly. You dont need smarts to play DT. All you gotta know is, hit anything that moves especially if it carries a football.

7. Mario Haggan-Steal Pick, needs time to pick up system.


All our picks with the exception of Kelsay really need some time (week 7ish) before they should even be inagurated into the system for signifigant playing time. This draft was for the future we all knew that coming into the draft, we had no major holes to fill. TD did what he said he was going to do and that was aquire some depth for this team.
5.

[HenryRules]

W26, Sape isn't stupid, its just that English isn't his first language.

[Gunzlingr]

Originally posted by HenryRules
GZ, I already said i was wrong.

Damn it! Just admit you are wrong already!!! :D

[Doc]

HR, I was going to post that about Sape.

As for the draft picks and Monday Morning QB'ing, Donahoe et al are paid to extensively evaluate players and have been doing so, and with a high degree of success, for years now. I'm sure they knew who was left when their turn came up in each round and went with who they went because they liked them better than guys they passed-over.

[SABURZFAN]

Originally posted by The Spaz
Well Weathersby was taken 1st pick in the 4th round and Rien Long was taken 1 pick in front of us in the 4th by the Titans. Go Bills!

well kgun picked weathersby in the 3rd round and i had r.long with the 111th pick overall which was 14 picks ahead of the TITANS.i was refering t.holt with the pick AFTER the TITANS.

[Fat Tony]

Originally posted by kgun12
Some of you have miss the point of the McGaHee pick. He was not a need! I don't think an 8-8 team has the luxury of takiing a huge chance on a guy coming off his 3rd major knee operation before his 24th b-day, NOT to mention it's the only position that we didn't need help in..


Most teams that historically draft on pure need, and not taking ''best player available" or take guys way to early usually end up like the Bengals

[WG]

I still like EJ Henderson in round one and I think we'll see him start and do well in Minnesota this season. Either way, he would have pushed Fletcher and provided depth at MLB and possibly even OLB.

Tyrone Calico in round two would have filled an immediate need at #3 WR.

Kenny Peterson at #3 to me, from what they say about him v. Kelsay, is at least as good but may be able to pull off playing DT and has far more upside. This would have filled the same need as Kelsay at least.

Rien Long in round 4 would have been more insurance in that department.

[WG]

OLBs the caliber of Crowell can be gotten easily via FAcy.

We'll see who's better this year between Peterson and Kelsay b/c Peterson will start in GB.

[Doc]

Must have been some reason Peterson lasted that long and that the Bills traded down instead of taking him. We'll see.

[HenryRules]

I'm just curious ... all these players that many people seem to be getting so emotional about ("He's gonna be great!!" "This guy sucks", "He never did anything in college") ... have you actually watched them all play or are you guys simply evaluating the Bills draft based on a paragraph or two that you read in a draft report and a quick google search on their name?

[HenryRules]

KGun, I could be mistaken, and its a minor point, but I think this is McGahee's second major knee operation, not his third.

[kgun12]

Originally posted by HenryRules
I'm just curious ... all these players that many people seem to be getting so emotional about ("He's gonna be great!!" "This guy sucks", "He never did anything in college") ... have you actually watched them all play or are you guys simply evaluating the Bills draft based on a paragraph or two that you read in a draft report and a quick google search on their name?

HR first off I went back and did a quick check I didn't see one post with "he sucks" He's gonna be great" so who's getting emotional?
Second I watch alot of college football. Second my whole point was there was a lot more talent at everyone of our picks in each round. I just didn't understand our picks!

[The Spaz]

Well noone here is a Pro Scout except for one person so know one really knows how to evaluate talent. Go Bills!

[kgun12]

Originally posted by Winfield_26
We dont have any need to try and draft starters or anybody who will push for immediate playing time. These guys are all high potential picks with some rough spots in there previous careers. They all need time to heal up and train. This draft was all about depth for TD, let me break it down how I see this draft:

1. McGahee-Wont be ready till 2004 no rush on him, but could be the biggest steal in the draft

2. Kelsay-Only immediate need pick we needed was a pass rushing DE

3. Crowell-Smallish LB needs some time to learn the system and bulk up

4a. Terence McGee-Project CB who needs time to adapt to higher paced much more intense play. Standout Div II player, but this is the big boys

4b. Sam Aiken-Great pick here, good 3rd WR to challenge Shaw but played in ACC, one of the weaker football confrences, will need time to find his role in Gilbride's offense

5. Ben Sobieski- Was touted as a highly productive player coming into Iowa has had numerous naggin injuries but played well last year relatively injury free. Needs time to mend and find a posistion.

6. Lauvale Sapp- 6-1 DT at 297 is kinda small but if he adds 20 pounds he could be a force. Kid isnt very bright but Id be willing to bet half of the players out there cant spell correctly. You dont need smarts to play DT. All you gotta know is, hit anything that moves especially if it carries a football.

7. Mario Haggan-Steal Pick, needs time to pick up system.


All our picks with the exception of Kelsay really need some time (week 7ish) before they should even be inagurated into the system for signifigant playing time. This draft was for the future we all knew that coming into the draft, we had no major holes to fill. TD did what he said he was going to do and that was aquire some depth for this team.
5.

So your saying that it is better to have all these guys with the description YOU gave for these palyers than the one I picked that would have helped an 8-8 team more than players that how did you put it

"3. Crowell-Smallish LB needs some time to learn the system and bulk up"
Bailey or herderson may need some polishing but they don't need to "bulk up" and Crowell is done growing!
or
"4a. Terence McGee-Project CB who needs time to adapt to higher paced much more intense play. Standout Div II player, but this is the big boys"
Wheatherby played in the bigs!
"5. Ben Sobieski- Was touted as a highly productive player coming into Iowa has had numerous naggin injuries but played well last year relatively injury free. Needs time to mend and find a posistion."
Sciullo play without injury an is said WILL fight for and probably win a starting job for Indy.

HERES MY POINT:
I don't know why we picked all these alsoruns when there were MUCH better players out there to add depth and maybe fight for some quality playing time!

[The Spaz]

How do you know there were better players are you a Pro Scout, I'm not. Go Bills!

[Ebenezer]

I agree, I would have taken the chance on Weathersby...

[HenryRules]

KGun, first, I wasn't referring to this topic specifically, just the post-draft talk in general ... so those were not intended as specific examples of emotional posting, but basically the way the posts can be summed up. If you don't think many people have gotten emotional about our draft, the McGahee pick specifically, I think you're kidding yourself. I didn't want to bring up specific qoutes so that I didn't single anyone out.

Second, I was not saying that I was a draft expert, merely trying to put into perspective that getting emotional over a player someone hasn't seen play is not wise. Not once in my comment did I refer to people who speak about things in a rational manner. As I said, for the emotional people, I was saying to keep things in perspective. If you don't put yourself in this group, then fine I wasn't talking to you.

Third, as far as saying my comments come from a draft guide, well I've never purchased one in my life and only read stuff that is posted here. The only comments I've really made about the draft concern Miami players and that's because I watch them play about 5 or 6 times a season. Other comments I normally try to preface with, "From what I've heard" or something similar. On this thread specifically, I said that McGahee had more potential than Bailey. The reason I say that is McGahee looked a lot better to me than any other RB I've seen recently at Miami. Considering Portis and James both came from that school and look quite promising in the NFL (well, if James wasn't overused early in his career he would), I think he has the potential to be the best RB in the NFL. Regardless of who I was comparing him with, I'd say that McGahee has better potential, simply because of that statement. The second half of that comment, talking about drafting for depth versus potential, was saying that regardless of whether McGahee is not needed for depth and Bailey is, you should draft for potential in the first round.
My only other comment was regarding an individuals character because he was shot, which once I realized it was not his fault, I took it back.

[kgun12]

Originally posted by The Spaz
Well noone here is a Pro Scout except for one person so know one really knows how to evaluate talent. Go Bills!

You really need to read to posts man. His question was did we read about these players or did we see any of them play? He didn't ask me if I was a pro scout. Come on man keep up!

[HenryRules]

Actually KGun, you need to read posts ... to paraphrase I said, "For people who are responding emotionally to the Bills draft, have you seen these players or are you getting emotional based on what some Schmo said regarding the Bills picks."

Thus I was not questioning everyone, just those that are getting emotional.

[The Spaz]

Originally posted by kgun12


You really need to read to posts man. His question was did we read about these players or did we see any of them play? He didn't ask me if I was a pro scout. Come on man keep up!

I was taking to you.

HERES MY POINT:
"I don't know why we picked all these alsoruns when there were MUCH better players out there to add depth and maybe fight for some quality playing time"!- K-Gun


Don't get emotional! Go Bills!

[kgun12]

HR if you noticed I edited that post. I thought it was unfair. Sorry, and you are right, McGaHee looked great before the injury and would be a great pick pre injury. The injury changes everything. Don't you think there were teams that needed a RB prior to 23rd that passed on this guy, not only cause he couldn't help them this year, but also there is NO garuntee he will evr come back. Thats why I think Bailey, Henderson or Kelsay would have been the better pick at 23. We are 8-8, not coming off a Super Bowl or playoff team, I just don't think we were in a position to take a chance on him when we needed help in so many areas! That's all.
I will print this whole thread and at the end of this year and the next 3, lets see who's picks have had better careers mine of the Bills. I would like you to print this too, and call me on it if I don't bring it back up. I will though, I can admit when I'm wrong. See above.

[kgun12]

Originally posted by The Spaz


I was taking to you.

HERES MY POINT:
"I don't know why we picked all these alsoruns when there were MUCH better players out there to add depth and maybe fight for some quality playing time"!- K-Gun


Don't get emotional! Go Bills!

What part is emotional. That they are or are not alsoruns. Other than Kelsay tell me which player could jump in if someone would get hurt from this draft class.

Just because you didn't read HR question and the responds you gave was silly, don't try to turn this on me, IT MAKES YOU LOOK SMALL VERY SMALL.

[kgun12]

HR here what I said
"HR first off I went back and did a quick check I didn't see one post with "he sucks" He's gonna be great" so who's getting emotional?"
It didnt question who said what, how or why I just didn't understand why it was in this THREAD, that's all. No one on this thread has talked like that, so to say thats what was being said on other thread don't need to be brought in to this.

[The Spaz]

You obviously haven't been paying attention Henry already said that it wasn't this thread just in general people were talking like that. You wake up! Go Bills!

[kgun12]

Spaz your name fits you man and you named yourself! Read my post (35) again then try to put a something together that makes since, BUT breath deep and try real hard I think you can do it! Everyone will be very proud of you! Remember the original question was why he brought things from other threads into this thread. Spaz repeat these instructions, Breath in breath out, breath in breath out, hurry now try to answer the question before all the oxygen leave your body!

[The Spaz]

wow you ready to have a bably? I'll tell my girlfriend your a good instructor!:) j/k

[Lone Stranger]

I believe that Joseph and Weathersby could have given us some immediate help and should have been in the mix. Contrary to what TD believes I don't think you need superstatrs to win the big one. Defense first and a lot of just good players. See Tampa Bay and New England.

[TigerJ]

I fail to see how Boss Bailey addresses need any more than does Willis McGahee. Buffalo has quality starters across the board at LB. Weathersby is probably a safe bet to make a complete recovery. The question is: can he play safety? Besides his return skills, that's where Terrence McGee projects as a pro. That's another question. How are Weathersby's return skills? Ian Scott? I doubt Sape makes the team. I doubt Scott makes the team. Sape is a cheaper washout. Can Sciullo play center? That's where the Bills project Sobieski. As an OT, Sciullo would not be a threat to start in Buffalo. Frankly, at 5.48 in the 40 I think he's going to be pretty limmited in the pros. Sobieski was healthy last year. I don't know how much of an injury risk he is at this point. He is more versatile and athletic than Sciullo. I vote for the Bills draft. Sorry.