I'm Bills GM in a mock draft

[clumping platelets]

Bills are up and the 1st 10 picks are:

Round 1

1.Detroit Lions-Matthew Stafford, QB, Georgia
2.St.Louis Rams-Jason Smith, OT, Baylor
3.Kansas City Chiefs-Everette Brown, DE/LB, Florida State
4.Seattle Seahawks-Michael Crabtree, WR ,Texas Tech
5.Cleveland Browns-Aaron Curry, LB, Wake Forest
6.Cincinnati Bengals-Eugene Monroe, OT, Virginia
7.Oakland Raiders-Brian Orokpo, DE, Texas
8.Jacksonville Jaguars-Jeremy Maclin, WR, Missouri
9.Green Bay Packers-B.J. Raji, DT, Boston College
10.San Francisco 49ers-Mark Sanchez, QB, USC
11.Buffalo Bills-

I'm leaning towards OT Andre Smith or Michael Oher

Too early for Pettigrew or Maybin

I like the USC LB's but believe it may be a bit early for them as well.

I'm trying to trade down but it doesn't look likely. I have until aboot 10pm

[bflojohn]

I'll give you my darkhorse candidate..... Larry English, DE, Nothern Illinois. He is Aaron Maybin without the development period. He is perfect in a 4-3 defense, IMHO.

[clumping platelets]

At #11? Too early

[SquishDaFish]

Acc everything Ive heard of English is that he is perfect for 3-4 OLB pos. I say Ayers or Smith

[clumping platelets]

Taking a LT allows for the trading of Peters if this were a real world scenario

(cannot trade players in this mock)

[SquishDaFish]

True or put him a rookie at RT and move walker to G?

[clumping platelets]

I was targeting DT Raji or DE Brown at #11

[SquishDaFish]

Love to have Raji but def wont fall though

[FlyingDutchman]

Bills are up and the 1st 10 picks are:

Round 1

1.Detroit Lions-Matthew Stafford, QB, Georgia
2.St.Louis Rams-Jason Smith, OT, Baylor
3.Kansas City Chiefs-Everette Brown, DE/LB, Florida State
4.Seattle Seahawks-Michael Crabtree, WR ,Texas Tech
5.Cleveland Browns-Aaron Curry, LB, Wake Forest
6.Cincinnati Bengals-Eugene Monroe, OT, Virginia
7.Oakland Raiders-Brian Orokpo, DE, Texas
8.Jacksonville Jaguars-Jeremy Maclin, WR, Missouri
9.Green Bay Packers-B.J. Raji, DT, Boston College
10.San Francisco 49ers-Mark Sanchez, QB, USC
11.Buffalo Bills-

I'm leaning towards OT Andre Smith or Michael Oher

Too early for Pettigrew or Maybin

I like the USC LB's but believe it may be a bit early for them as well.

I'm trying to trade down but it doesn't look likely. I have until aboot 10pm

I would be ok with this IF we can get a trade done for Peters ahead of time so we have a slew of draft picks to plug holes

[ddaryl]

I always side with Oher based upon 2 things...

1.) Andre Smiths debacle at the combine worries the hell out of me

2.) Oher was a solid G in college before becoming a LT so he helps us out at LG instantly and increases and improves our depth at T.

[clumping platelets]

I always side with Oher based upon 2 things...

1.) Andre Smiths debacle at the combine worries the hell out of me

2.) Oher was a solid G in college before becoming a LT so he helps us out at LG instantly and increases and improves our depth at T.



I agree with you..........I'm just hoping someone at like #14 or #15 wants to move up. get an extra 3rd and still get Oher or one of the USC LB's

[TacklingDummy]

Malcolm Jenkins, FS, Ohio State or CB Vontae Davis ~ Illinois

[Night Train]

Oher... or..the big surprise

Think back to a troubled Travis Henry and the Willis pick.

We have a troubled Lynch...so the shock pick is Beanie Wells !

[methos4ever]

I'd say Andre Smith - despite all the craziness with his workouts, he still is the most physically dominant run blocker in the draft. I say put him at LG with OT depth.

[DraftBoy]

Malcolm Jenkins CB Ohio State without question.

[DraftBoy]

Oh and the Chiefs GM needs to be fired.

[BillsWin]

hmmmmmmmmmmm

[SquishDaFish]

Malcolm Jenkins, FS, Ohio State or CB Vontae Davis ~ Illinois

Jenkins is a CB

[DraftBoy]

Jenkins is a CB

He's done both and some teams project him into the NFL as a FS. Personally I like him at CB better.

[DraftBoy]

How many rounds Clump?

[T-Long]

I think if that is the way that it fell, it would be Maybin or Cushing/Maulaluga

[venis2k1]

Id take Maybin.

[clumping platelets]

Oh and the Chiefs GM needs to be fired.


He wanted to trade down but had no takers

[clumping platelets]

How many rounds Clump?


all 7 :D

[DraftBoy]

He wanted to trade down but had no takers

That's not an excuse to pass on Curry for Brown though...

Clump gimme your top 10 right now of whose left? Im just curious to see.

[clumping platelets]

I do not like using #11 on a DB............we desperately need help in the defense front 7 and OL.......I wouldn't be opposed to secondary help in rd 2.........I like Sean Smith

[DraftBoy]

I do not like using #11 on a DB............we desperately need help in the defense front 7 and OL.......I wouldn't be opposed to secondary help in rd 2.........I like Sean Smith

We need help all over and nobody you take at 11 is going to be an impact player on the front 7 of this D with Raji, Curry, and Orakpo gone. You know that and I know that. Take the best playmaker left and secure a future secondary of Jenkins and McLovin as lock down CB's.

[clumping platelets]

Lemme see if I can move down a few spots first

[SquishDaFish]

Not bad DB

[DraftBoy]

Not bad DB

Well the truth is hard to argue against and Clump knows his stuff. He knows we are more than a 3-4 OLB away from being a contender and he doesn't like to waste picks. He's been doing this stuff for years now. If we stick at 11 the pick has to be Jenkins imo (even though I too really like Sean Smith in Rd 2). Trade down would be awesome but nobody is sitting there that I can't see somebody waiting around for at this point.

[clumping platelets]

DB: what aboot Andre Smith or Michael Oher? Which one here?

[DraftBoy]

DB: what aboot Andre Smith or Michael Oher? Which one here?

Smith over Oher, but where you going to play him? You can't move Peters, you're not going to bench Walker or move him inside. You're going to pay an OT 7-8 million a year to ride the pine?

[SquishDaFish]

What about moving Oher to Guard?

[DraftBoy]

What about moving Oher to Guard?

You want to draft a guy at 11 and ask him to change from his best position?? I mean could he do it? Sure but 1st off you don't draft interior lineman in the top 20, and you don't take a top round guy and ask him to move and learn an entire new position. Hell he'd be one of the highest paid OG's as a rookie.

[clumping platelets]

:dizzy:

[Tatonka]

how in gods name can you say we should take a cb there.. that is just nuts. i would puke.

[clumping platelets]

This is why I wanna move down a few spots............other teams help you with your choice

[clumping platelets]

the USC LB's are a reach here but I could go with Matthews

[DraftBoy]

how in gods name can you say we should take a cb there.. that is just nuts. i would puke.

McGee is a FA next season that we likely won't resign and Jenkins can play either CB or FS.

[The Spaz]

You want to draft a guy at 11 and ask him to change from his best position?? I mean could he do it? Sure but 1st off you don't draft interior lineman in the top 20, and you don't take a top round guy and ask him to move and learn an entire new position. Hell he'd be one of the highest paid OG's as a rookie.

I said the same thing last week and got *****ed at. Where is that ****er right now anyway...lol:shelby:

[DraftBoy]

the USC LB's are a reach here but I could go with Matthews

But why? You know this draft is LB deep especially in Rounds 1-3 guys like McRath, Ellerbe, Sintim, Beckwith, Phillips, Ivy, Freeman, Palmer, McKenzie, Follett, Heygood are all good LB's and fit our scheme as well as Matthews does.

[DraftBoy]

I said the same thing last week and got *****ed at. Where is that ****er right now anyway...lol:shelby:

Which ****er are you referring to? Im going to need you to be more specific.

[clumping platelets]

Might be able to move down to #21 :pray:

[The Spaz]

Which ****er are you referring to? Im going to need you to be more specific.

It's in this thread:

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=172121

[DraftBoy]

Might be able to move down to #21 :pray:

Value wise you should get a 1st, 2nd, and 4th for the deal then.

11-1250

for

21-800, 2nd Round-370, and 4th Round-60 =1230

Value Chart;
http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/pick_value_chart.htm

Don't under sell the pick now.

[clumping platelets]

But why? You know this draft is LB deep especially in Rounds 1-3 guys like McRath, Ellerbe, Sintim, Beckwith, Phillips, Ivy, Freeman, Palmer, McKenzie, Follett, Heygood are all good LB's and fit our scheme as well as Matthews does.



you just want me to take Jenkins :mad:

[clumping platelets]

Value wise you should get a 1st, 2nd, and 4th for the deal then.

11-1250

for

21-800, 2nd Round-370, and 4th Round-60 =1230

Value Chart;
http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/pick_value_chart.htm

Don't under sell the pick now.

The same guy wants to know how far up #28, 3rd and 4th gets him.......I said to Philly's other 1st at #21...maybe

[DraftBoy]

It's in this thread:

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=172121

Yea I dont know what the hell they were arguing you about. They want to pay Walker, Peters and a draft pick all starter money! Genious!! Or better yet pick a guy and move arguably our most consistent OL inside (Walker).

[DraftBoy]

you just want me to take Jenkins :mad:

This is true but you also know Im not just bull****ting you either.

[DraftBoy]

The same guy wants to know how far up #28, 3rd and 4th gets him.......I said to Philly's other 1st at #21...maybe

21, 2nd and 4th

or 28, 2nd and 3rd those are basically the options I see as even plausible.

21, 3rd, and 4th will get you beaten value wise. You'll be dropping like 200 points.

[clumping platelets]

well, it doesn't look good for a trade down

What aboot Tyson Jackson?

[TacklingDummy]

Take Jenkins. I'd rather have the best CB on the board than the 3rd or 4th ranked DE on the board.

[DraftBoy]

well, it doesn't look good for a trade down

What aboot Tyson Jackson?

3-4 DE who is not a pass rusher (which I assume you want to take) also not worth the #11 pick. If you stick at 11 the pick needs to be Jenkins.

[clumping platelets]

This is what I posted in the comment thread there:

What a terrible way for the top 10 to fall. I was targeting 3 players at #11, all DL and all 3 were taken. I then must assume that because we cannot make player trades the Bills are able to extend OT Jason Peters and cannot make a deal for any other rumored players. I then have to focus on value at #11 and also need. Keeping Peters basically takes OL off the table. It's too early for LB or TE and I do not like any of the other tweener types at DE/OLB at this point (i.e Maybin). The Bills do have a need for secondary help (McGee UFA after 2009) and Jenkins versatility (move to FS?) will help a lot

[clumping platelets]

:anvil:

[DraftBoy]

So when are going to announce that you picked Jenkins??

[clumping platelets]

I already did

[The Spaz]

If it fell that way I think I would have to pick Jenkins too. Not the ideal pick but he would start and make an impact right away IMO.

[bflojohn]

I'm telling you's guys, don't scoff at Larry English being this pick at @11.... Russ Lande of the Sporting News has mocked him to us before and the latest one has him going 13 to Washington. Some scouts absolutely love this guy, so consider it a little bit huh?? He's my pick at 11 on the NFL.com draft contest, so I guess you heard it here first!!
With the 11ht pick in the 1009 NFL draft, the Buffalo Bills select ^^^

[bflojohn]

Holy cow, so much for my typing skill, that would be 11th and 2009 actually. I'm really better at proof reading than that....sorry!!

[SquishDaFish]

1009? Was he a good player back then?

[clumping platelets]

you can edit the post :D

[SquishDaFish]

:lol:

[bflojohn]

I just knew I catch He// for that one! YES, he's a little long in the tooth!! Beastmode, I'm watching you and your grammer and I can be brutal buddy, LOL!

[DraftBoy]

I'm telling you's guys, don't scoff at Larry English being this pick at @11.... Russ Lande of the Sporting News has mocked him to us before and the latest one has him going 13 to Washington. Some scouts absolutely love this guy, so consider it a little bit huh?? He's my pick at 11 on the NFL.com draft contest, so I guess you heard it here first!!
With the 11ht pick in the 1009 NFL draft, the Buffalo Bills select ^^^

Im not a big fan of Lande for draft info, and I can't buy English to the Bills at 11, aside from the fact that he's yet another OLB/DE tweener.

[Philagape]

With the 11ht pick in the 1009 NFL draft, the Buffalo Bills select ^^^

Ralph was cheap then too

[Nighthawk]

If it fell that way I think I would have to pick Jenkins too. Not the ideal pick but he would start and make an impact right away IMO.

That would be a HORRIBLE pick. He won't start right away, is too slow to play CB and needs to move to safety. That would not help this team and this team needs to pick players who help them now...CB's usually take a year or two to develop. If that is how it plays out...the pick will be Ayers, Maybin or one of the USC LB's. Jenkins there doesn't make any sense.

[DraftBoy]

That would be a HORRIBLE pick. He won't start right away, is too slow to play CB and needs to move to safety. That would not help this team and this team needs to pick players who help them now...CB's usually take a year or two to develop. If that is how it plays out...the pick will be Ayers, Maybin or one of the USC LB's. Jenkins there doesn't make any sense.

He's not too slow to play CB that a ridiculous statement based on two 40 times and flies in the face that he has only been the top CB in the country the last two years and been plenty fast enough.

[OpIv37]

Bills are up and the 1st 10 picks are:

Round 1

1.Detroit Lions-Matthew Stafford, QB, Georgia
2.St.Louis Rams-Jason Smith, OT, Baylor
3.Kansas City Chiefs-Everette Brown, DE/LB, Florida State
4.Seattle Seahawks-Michael Crabtree, WR ,Texas Tech
5.Cleveland Browns-Aaron Curry, LB, Wake Forest
6.Cincinnati Bengals-Eugene Monroe, OT, Virginia
7.Oakland Raiders-Brian Orokpo, DE, Texas
8.Jacksonville Jaguars-Jeremy Maclin, WR, Missouri
9.Green Bay Packers-B.J. Raji, DT, Boston College
10.San Francisco 49ers-Mark Sanchez, QB, USC
11.Buffalo Bills-

I'm leaning towards OT Andre Smith or Michael Oher

Too early for Pettigrew or Maybin

I like the USC LB's but believe it may be a bit early for them as well.

I'm trying to trade down but it doesn't look likely. I have until aboot 10pm

Are you going for the intelligent pick, or the realistic pick? If you're going for realism, reach for Pettigrew or draft a CB, because that's what the Bills' FO will probably do. If you're going for an intelligent pick, take Rey Maragooglia or whatever his name is from USC.

[DraftBoy]

Are you going for the intelligent pick, or the realistic pick? If you're going for realism, reach for Pettigrew or draft a CB, because that's what the Bills' FO will probably do. If you're going for an intelligent pick, take Rey Maragooglia or whatever his name is from USC.

How is Maualuga the intelligent pick? The guy is a better 3-4 ILB then he is a 4-3 MLB.

[Nighthawk]

He's not too slow to play CB that a ridiculous statement based on two 40 times and flies in the face that he has only been the top CB in the country the last two years and been plenty fast enough.

Picking him at #11 does not make any sense for building this team. Just picking a guy because he is ranked a tad higher on your board is just as bad as reaching for guy. At some point, you need to address holes on the team and you can do that by picking one of the LBs...both will be very good at the next level. Both are immediate impact players where this team needs help. I understand your point about McGee next year, but at we need help this year and there are players that make more sense then picking a backup (for this year anyways) CB. That being said, I'd much rather have an impact player such as Maualuga or Cushing at that spot...improves this team much more then Jenkins would.

[Nighthawk]

How is Maualuga the intelligent pick? The guy is a better 3-4 ILB then he is a 4-3 MLB.

I disagree...why would you say he is a better 3-4 ILB??? That stuff is so overrated...the guy is a very good player, an impact player...he can be equally as effective as a 4-3 guy as a 3-4 guy.

[DraftBoy]

Picking him at #11 does not make any sense for building this team. Just picking a guy because he is ranked a tad higher on your board is just as bad as reaching for guy. At some point, you need to address holes on the team and you can do that by picking one of the LBs...both will be very good at the next level. Both are immediate impact players where this team needs help. I understand your point about McGee next year, but at we need help this year and there are players that make more sense then picking a backup (for this year anyways) CB. That being said, I'd much rather have an impact player such as Maualuga or Cushing at that spot...improves this team much more then Jenkins would.

You've just changed your complete argument now you realize. First it was that he couldnt play CB because he didnt have the speed now its because he would be a backup for a year??? Im confused which point was it, and just because he is drafted as a CB on draft day does not mean he couldnt be our starting CF (FS) come opening night. He has played FS before and has excellent ball skills which is something this defense desperately lacks.

If you can tell me in what way Maualuga helps impact this team then by all means Ill happily debate that but the fact is he that he is a better fit for the 3-4 ILB, is bad in traffic, and rarely makes plays in or before the holes but usually 3-4 yards after the hole. Plus what does moving Poz outside gain us? Now instead of only a question at one OLB spot on opening night we have to wonder how with Maualuga do at MLB but can Poz handle all the OLB assignments and the position switch. So you've gone from one big question about our LB corp to now two. I dont think adding question marks to our already thin D is a very good idea.

[DraftBoy]

I disagree...why would you say he is a better 3-4 ILB??? That stuff is so overrated...the guy is a very good player, an impact player...he can be equally as effective as a 4-3 guy as a 3-4 guy.

Because he is neither a good block shedder or good in traffic in a 3-4 he has to deal with far less traffic. Watch his tape, that's why he doesnt make plays behind the LOS. Only 2.5 TFL all year, and 22.5 TFL in his career (3 year starter).

[Nighthawk]

You've just changed your complete argument now you realize. First it was that he couldnt play CB because he didnt have the speed now its because he would be a backup for a year??? Im confused which point was it, and just because he is drafted as a CB on draft day does not mean he couldnt be our starting CF (FS) come opening night. He has played FS before and has excellent ball skills which is something this defense desperately lacks.

If you can tell me in what way Maualuga helps impact this team then by all means Ill happily debate that but the fact is he that he is a better fit for the 3-4 ILB, is bad in traffic, and rarely makes plays in or before the holes but usually 3-4 yards after the hole. Plus what does moving Poz outside gain us? Now instead of only a question at one OLB spot on opening night we have to wonder how with Maualuga do at MLB but can Poz handle all the OLB assignments and the position switch. So you've gone from one big question about our LB corp to now two. I dont think adding question marks to our already thin D is a very good idea.

Poz was originally an OLB and moved inside in his Senior year at Penn State...he is definitely capable of playing that position. Now I know you don't like Maualuga, so your arguement is a little biased. The kid is a very good football player, can play the inside of a 4-3 with no problem and loves playing the game. Cushing is another player that I wouldn't hate picking and again, he solves a more pressing need on our team then drafting another CB would. I stated that Jenkins would be a backup because I was using your theory of picking him to replace McGee. I'm guessing he plays FS in the pros, but I'll agree with you that he can play CB in a Cover 2 where speed doesn't really determine a corner's ability. That being said, it would make zero sense for this team to pick another CB at #11. I'd even be OK with Ayers or Maybin...Ayers seems to be the player moving up the draft boards this year, just like his teammate Mayo was last year. Ayers is a more all-around DE then I would prefer (would much rather have a player with a little more pass rushing ability), but I'd much rather have him on the otherside of Schobel then Kelsey. At least he looks to have more athleticism and ability to provide push in the pocket.

[The Spaz]

That would be a HORRIBLE pick. He won't start right away, is too slow to play CB and needs to move to safety. That would not help this team and this team needs to pick players who help them now...CB's usually take a year or two to develop. If that is how it plays out...the pick will be Ayers, Maybin or one of the USC LB's. Jenkins there doesn't make any sense.

If you have been following the Bills have brought in lots of 2nd and 3rd round DE's.

[Nighthawk]

If you have been following the Bills have brought in lots of 2nd and 3rd round DE's.

Are you talking about for pre-draft visits??? If so, who cares...all that means is they are preparing for the draft to unfold multiple ways.

[The Spaz]

Are you talking about for pre-draft visits??? If so, who cares...all that means is they are preparing for the draft to unfold multiple ways.

So what do you think that means? maybe that they are prepared to take a DE later...hmmm. Besides this is a mock draft and he isn't able to trade so this is what the scenario we are dealing with.

[Nighthawk]

So what do you think that means? maybe that they are prepared to take a DE later...hmmm. Besides this is a mock draft and he isn't able to trade so this is what the scenario we are dealing with.

You're reaching regarding them bringing in DE's who are targeted for the 2nd or 3rd.

I agree, this is a mock...I'm just stating my feeling about them drafting another corner at #11. It's only my opinion and it doesn't really effect anything that will happen...but that's how I feel.

[clumping platelets]

:popcorn:

[The Spaz]

:popcorn:

2nd round going on tonight?

[The Spaz]

You have a link to this mock draft?

[clumping platelets]

They are still in the mid 1st rd.......I'll have a 2nd pick tomorrow.

So many owners wanna move down but still expect full price to move up. I was willing to move down from #11 to #21 for Philly's 3rd and 4th. At #21, I could have taken Pettigrew, Ayers, English, one of the USC LB's, or Mack

[clumping platelets]

You have a link to this mock draft?


I will later........

[clumping platelets]

Indy GM wants to trade down from #27......................hmmmmmmmmmmm

Not gonna trade up......just don't have the ammo

In rd 2, I'm looking at either Pettigrew or Cook at TE, number of different OLB's, DL, and OL. Duke Robinson is a possibility but I really like Cook at that point.

[SABURZFAN]

i would have taken Andre Smith. the OL is pathetic and has ZERO depth.

[X-Era]

Bills are up and the 1st 10 picks are:

Round 1

1.Detroit Lions-Matthew Stafford, QB, Georgia
2.St.Louis Rams-Jason Smith, OT, Baylor
3.Kansas City Chiefs-Everette Brown, DE/LB, Florida State
4.Seattle Seahawks-Michael Crabtree, WR ,Texas Tech
5.Cleveland Browns-Aaron Curry, LB, Wake Forest
6.Cincinnati Bengals-Eugene Monroe, OT, Virginia
7.Oakland Raiders-Brian Orokpo, DE, Texas
8.Jacksonville Jaguars-Jeremy Maclin, WR, Missouri
9.Green Bay Packers-B.J. Raji, DT, Boston College
10.San Francisco 49ers-Mark Sanchez, QB, USC
11.Buffalo Bills-

I'm leaning towards OT Andre Smith or Michael Oher

Too early for Pettigrew or Maybin

I like the USC LB's but believe it may be a bit early for them as well.

I'm trying to trade down but it doesn't look likely. I have until aboot 10pm

Its either Rey Maualuga, or Brian Cushing at this point... I like Rey but it would require the Bills to move Poz outside. I dont think Maybin is out of the question but I can see Rey at this spot instead.

[User Manuel]

You know my vote. Yep, Drew Willy.

[User Manuel]

Indy GM wants to trade down from #27......................hmmmmmmmmmmm

Not gonna trade up......just don't have the ammo

In rd 2, I'm looking at either Pettigrew or Cook at TE, number of different OLB's, DL, and OL. Duke Robinson is a possibility but I really like Cook at that point.

Thats a big trade down. Go 1st, 2nd 5th and Dominic Rhodes. That solves our RB depth problem.

[clumping platelets]

Can't trade players

[yordad]

Smith over Oher, but where you going to play him? You can't move Peters, you're not going to bench Walker or move him inside. You're going to pay an OT 7-8 million a year to ride the pine?You would rather pay the #4 CB that much to ride the pine? Oh, Oher wouldn't ride the pine. We have at least 1 maybe 2 gaping holes in the O-line right now. And, worth noting, McGee already said he is working on a long term contract and wants to finish his career a Bill.

Also, I'm not sure what we paid McKelvin last year (#11) but I think it was less then Dockery.

Not to mention, I will throw a real brick, not a styrofoam one, at my big screen if that happens.

[DraftBoy]

Indy GM wants to trade down from #27......................hmmmmmmmmmmm

Not gonna trade up......just don't have the ammo

In rd 2, I'm looking at either Pettigrew or Cook at TE, number of different OLB's, DL, and OL. Duke Robinson is a possibility but I really like Cook at that point.

Give us an updated status as to whose gone right now. Id be looking at Ayers in Rd 2, Id avoid the TE position until Rd 3 or 4. Right now I think you could target DE in Round 2 in Ayers or Micheal Johnson, LB in Round 3 like McRath, and then TE in Round 4 like Ingram.

[DraftBoy]

You would rather pay the #4 CB that much to ride the pine? Oh, Oher wouldn't ride the pine. We have at least 1 maybe 2 gaping holes in the O-line right now. And, worth noting, McGee already said he is working on a long term contract and wants to finish his career a Bill.

Also, I'm not sure what we paid McKelvin last year (#11) but I think it was less then Dockery.

Not to mention, I will throw a real brick, not a styrofoam one, at my big screen if that happens.

Nope but I would pay a starting CF that much. Who has good ball skills, is a solid tackler and isnt afraid to take some risks.

[ddaryl]

the #11 draft pick will cost about a 5 year 21 million deal which is about 1 million more then we paid Mckelvin last season.

I would have no problem drafting any OL that can play LG for us at #11

well befoe I would ever consider drafting another CB at #11

[ELAYAS]

Nope but I would pay a starting CF that much. Who has good ball skills, is a solid tackler and isnt afraid to take some risks.

ok, google told me cystic fibrosis or centerfield (baseball) but neither seems right lol

wtf does cf mean?

[DraftBoy]

ok, google told me cystic fibrosis or centerfield (baseball) but neither seems right lol

wtf does cf mean?

In our version of the Cover 2, we rely on our FS to play a more CF position, especially since Whitner is incapable of playing the ball ever. So the FS acts like a CF and his job is to not allow anything to get thrown over his head and to make a play on the ball. He should have good range, and good ball skills. Hence why I refer to it as a CF.

[justasportsfan]

McGee is a FA next season that we likely won't resign and Jenkins can play either CB or FS.

Although I agree with your logic here, Dick is so desperate since he doesn't have time nor the luxury to wait for a player that will most likely be a 3rd or 4th cb behind Leodis and McGee. You have to consider Dicks situation.

[yordad]

Nope but I would pay a starting CF that much. Who has good ball skills, is a solid tackler and isnt afraid to take some risks.Touche, if CF means center field. Because he would probably see action at safety, so you have a bit of a point (I saw how you said you liked him better at CB, and assumed). But, IMO, Chambers at guard and Peters (likely) holdout makes the O-line much more important then replacing Scott (who was a 2nd rounder just a few years ago), who looked at least average at times.

[DraftBoy]

Although I agree with your logic here, Dick is so desperate since he doesn't have time nor the luxury to wait for a player that will most likely be a 3rd or 4th cb behind Leodis and McGee. You have to consider Dicks situation.

Its not Dick's call so I really don't care what he wants or is desperate for. We already know Modrak is taking a more active hands on role in this years draft. Dick can sit on his thumb and twirl for all I care, he's lucky he even has a job still.

[DraftBoy]

Touche, if CF means center field. Because he would probably see action at safety, so you have a bit of a point (I saw how you said you liked him better at CB, and assumed). But, IMO, Chambers at guard and Peters (likely) holdout makes the O-line much more important then replacing Scott (who was a 2nd rounder just a few years ago), who looked at least average at times.

Chambers at OG scares the **** out of me but there are better options in Rd 2-4 for OG and I dont think Peters holds out again. I think the Bills pay him around 10 million a year and he's in camp on time.

[justasportsfan]

Its not Dick's call so I really don't care what he wants or is desperate for. We already know Modrak is taking a more active hands on role in this years draft. Dick can sit on his thumb and twirl for all I care, he's lucky he even has a job still.

lol. Thats wasn't Modraks attitude towards Dick when he was interviewed at the combine. As a matter of fact he defended Dick.

[DraftBoy]

lol. Thats wasn't Modraks attitude towards Dick when he was interviewed at the combine. As a matter of fact he defended Dick.

You believe everything you read in an interview? What do you expect him to say?

[justasportsfan]

You believe everything you read in an interview? What do you expect him to say?


I take it with a grain of salt but I certainly won't believe what a mb poster tells me how to read into an interview either. You make it seem like Modrak has the same attitude you/I have towards Dick.

FYI, Modrak was there when Ralph had a meeting with Dick. I don't know what went on and neither do you .

[DraftBoy]

I take it with a grain of salt but I certainly won't believe what a mb poster tells me how to read into an interview either. You make it seem like Modrak has the same attitude you/I have towards Dick.
FYI, Modrak was there when Ralph had a meeting with Dick. I don't know what went on and neither do you .

No I don't but I know how to infer things that either you are not or are choosing to ignore.

We know Dick has been integral in the personnell process since he got here. We also now know that Modrak has been more of an advisor on drafts then an actual voting participant. We know that Ralph is not happy with the current crop of talent and with that in mind has basically given Modrak more power and control on draft day. So again why would Ralph make this change if he has every intention of just letting Dick pick who we wanted? Doesn't make any sense.

[yordad]

Chambers at OG scares the **** out of me but there are better options in Rd 2-4 for OG and I dont think Peters holds out again. I think the Bills pay him around 10 million a year and he's in camp on time.OK, but I don't trust Peters as far as I can throw him.... which is no where, so not at all. If he isn't inked by draft day, it's backup plan time. If he is, I would rather reach alittle for one of the DEs. Ayers, Maybin, Johnson, etc.

[Bert102176]

I do not like using #11 on a DB............we desperately need help in the defense front 7 and OL.......I wouldn't be opposed to secondary help in rd 2.........I like Sean Smith


2nd rd I want Alex Mack

[justasportsfan]

No I don't but I know how to infer things that either you are not or are choosing to ignore.

We know Dick has been integral in the personnell process since he got here. We also now know that Modrak has been more of an advisor on drafts then an actual voting participant. We know that Ralph is not happy with the current crop of talent and with that in mind has basically given Modrak more power and control on draft day. So again why would Ralph make this change if he has every intention of just letting Dick pick who we wanted? Doesn't make any sense.


I agree that Modrak most likely, has been given more power with the draft but to what direction? Win this year or draft projects for down the road ?This is what we don't know.

It is my opinion that he's looking for players that would make instant impact to help Dick win this year in the early rounds and a cb won't do that.

[SABURZFAN]

2nd rd I want Alex Mack


i don't think he'll be around for the 2nd round pick. i was hoping that clump could have traded down to the 30-32 spot to take him. then we could have seen Draftboy flip out, before somebody medicates him, because the Bills took a C inthe 1st round. :snicker:

[Ingtar33]

Malcolm Jenkins, FS, Ohio State or CB Vontae Davis ~ Illinois


lol. you even grabbed two big 10 players.

clearly the big 10 love in the bills front office is shinning through on this joke. The bills aren't the only team to favor certain conferences... it happens in front offices with "persuasive" regional scouts.

and the big 10 has been a fav of the bills since butler...

EDIT: oh wait you're serious? lol. i thought you were joking. I'm not sure how keen i am on the Bills taking a DB in round 1 when our lines suck so bad

[Dr. Lecter]

Its not Dick's call so I really don't care what he wants or is desperate for. We already know Modrak is taking a more active hands on role in this years draft. Dick can sit on his thumb and twirl for all I care, he's lucky he even has a job still.

It might not be Dick's call, but it appears as if the end of season conversation went something like this:

Ralph: "Umm, err, *cough*, Dick, you need to , umm, err, *cough*, make the playoffs next season or, ummm, err, *cough*, I'll fire your ass."

Jauron: "Thank you for keeping me Mr. Wilson. But for me to make the playoffs, I need good players."

Ralph: "Umm, errr, *cough*, I understand. We will give you the tools, Ummm, err, *cough*, you need to succeed."

So the Bills have agree to go all out to let Jauron get the team into the playoffs. Don't discount his impact in this process.

[Dr. Lecter]

lol. you even grabbed two big 10 players.

clearly the big 10 love in the bills front office is shinning through on this joke. The bills aren't the only team to favor certain conferences... it happens in front offices with "persuasive" regional scouts.

and the big 10 has been a fav of the bills since butler...

EDIT: oh wait you're serious? lol. i thought you were joking. I'm not sure how keen i am on the Bills taking a DB in round 1 when our lines suck so bad

In the scenario presented, I would take Jenkins too.

Who else is even close to #11 value at that time?

[DraftBoy]

Andre Smith, Michael Oher, and that's about it.

[yordad]

Andre Smith, Michael Oher, and that's about it.Good enough for me!

[Mahdi]

Bills are up and the 1st 10 picks are:

Round 1

1.Detroit Lions-Matthew Stafford, QB, Georgia
2.St.Louis Rams-Jason Smith, OT, Baylor
3.Kansas City Chiefs-Everette Brown, DE/LB, Florida State
4.Seattle Seahawks-Michael Crabtree, WR ,Texas Tech
5.Cleveland Browns-Aaron Curry, LB, Wake Forest
6.Cincinnati Bengals-Eugene Monroe, OT, Virginia
7.Oakland Raiders-Brian Orokpo, DE, Texas
8.Jacksonville Jaguars-Jeremy Maclin, WR, Missouri
9.Green Bay Packers-B.J. Raji, DT, Boston College
10.San Francisco 49ers-Mark Sanchez, QB, USC
11.Buffalo Bills-

I'm leaning towards OT Andre Smith or Michael Oher

Too early for Pettigrew or Maybin

I like the USC LB's but believe it may be a bit early for them as well.

I'm trying to trade down but it doesn't look likely. I have until aboot 10pm
Either Maybin or Smith.

Peters - Walker - Caldwell - Butler - Smith.... thats sick.

[The Spaz]

Either Maybin or Smith.

Peters - Walker - Caldwell - Butler - Smith.... thats sick.

Who's Caldwell?

[Mahdi]

Who's Caldwell?
Antoine Caldwell, C, Alabama.

[The Spaz]

Antoine Caldwell, C, Alabama.

So the FA we just signed Geoff Hangartner isn't starting? I find that hard to believe.

[DraftBoy]

Either Maybin or Smith.

Peters - Walker - Caldwell - Butler - Smith.... thats sick.

Why are you moving our best OL from last year?? That makes no sense.

[Dr. Lecter]

Why are you moving our best OL from last year?? That makes no sense.

He kept Butler at RG and Peters at LT.

[DraftBoy]

He kept Butler at RG and Peters at LT.

:rofl:

[Dr. Lecter]

I posted that just for you!!!!

Walker was OK last year. The last half of the season Peters was very, very good.

And we will continue to agree to disagree on Butler.

[DraftBoy]

I posted that just for you!!!!

Walker was OK last year. The last half of the season Peters was very, very good.

And we will continue to agree to disagree on Butler.

Walker was our most consistent OL last season.

Peters played better as the season wore on.

Yes we will about Butler.

[Nighthawk]

In the scenario presented, I would take Jenkins too.

Who else is even close to #11 value at that time?

You build to make your team better and help it this year, this team doesn't have the luxury of picking to fill holes a year down the road....they need players who help or fill a hole this year.

[Dr. Lecter]

You build to make your team better and help it this year, this team doesn't have the luxury of picking to fill holes a year down the road....they need players who help or fill a hole this year.

But who does that?

The LBs are not anywhere near #11. Maybe Cushing, as I think he is best of the group. Mualugua is not impressive to me. Matthews? He is a 2nd round guy. Maybin? One year wonder.

Smith or Oher? Sure. Draft Smith and put him at guard. I could see that.

Reaching is the worst thing a team can do when drafting.

[Nighthawk]

But who does that?

The LBs are not anywhere near #11. Maybe Cushing, as I think he is best of the group. Mualugua is not impressive to me. Matthews? He is a 2nd round guy. Maybin? One year wonder.

Smith or Oher? Sure. Draft Smith and put him at guard. I could see that.

Reaching is the worst thing a team can do when drafting.

No, not filling holes and still having the same glaring holes going into next year is the worst thing a team can do. Taking one of the LB's or Maybin makes sense and it wouldn't be a reach. I just believe too many people are caught up in what they read and don't think clearly when trying to make this team better. I'll tell you that picking one of the LBs instantly improves this team...this year. Ellison or Digi starting is not a good thing for this team. I'd be OK with them taking a DE or LB there or if Raji falls, but that won't happen. I'd hate seeing them waste a pick on a CB which is not a pressing need this year. Again, just my opinion.

[clumping platelets]

Depending on the draft to fill holes is not a wise strategy

[SABURZFAN]

Depending on the draft to fill holes is not a wise strategy


unless you go 0-16 like the Lions did.

[clumping platelets]

But we are not the Lions

[SABURZFAN]

But we are not the Lions


sometimes i wonder.

[DraftBoy]

No, not filling holes and still having the same glaring holes going into next year is the worst thing a team can do. Taking one of the LB's or Maybin makes sense and it wouldn't be a reach. I just believe too many people are caught up in what they read and don't think clearly when trying to make this team better. I'll tell you that picking one of the LBs instantly improves this team...this year. Ellison or Digi starting is not a good thing for this team. I'd be OK with them taking a DE or LB there or if Raji falls, but that won't happen. I'd hate seeing them waste a pick on a CB which is not a pressing need this year. Again, just my opinion.

I dont see any LB right now after Curry with a top 15 pick grade, and I certainly don't see Maybin having it. They are all reaches at this point.

If Raji falls no matter who else is on the board (short of Curry) the pick is Raji and it takes .001 seconds to get it in. But then you have to ask yourself is DT a pressing need? No its not both Stroud and Williams played well last season and Johnson was a good rotational guy. So why would you be ok with Raji being picked as a non-need position, but not Jenkins?

Im not trying to be a dick about it but you have to see where you kinda back track on your point. We all know we need to improve our pass rush, and pass coverage on D. We have multiple ways of doing that and we don't have to just say ok we need a DE to help our pass rush because that's not always the best way. Id love to have coverage sacks happen, its one of my favorite things to see happen because its beyond demoralizing to an offense. I think adding a playmaking FS is a big key to this offseason for me.

[DraftBoy]

Depending on the draft to fill holes is not a wise strategy
Where is our update?? Or have you stopped asking us for advice??

[clumping platelets]

Mock is still only in the late 1st............I bet I won't pick again until Thursday or Friday.

[clumping platelets]

1.Detroit Lions-Matthew Stafford, QB, Georgia
2.St.Louis Rams-Jason Smith, OT, Baylor
3.Kansas City Chiefs-Everette Brown, DE/LB, Florida State
4.Seattle Seahawks-Michael Crabtree, WR ,Texas Tech
5.Cleveland Browns-Aaron Curry, LB, Wake Forest
6.Cincinnati Bengals-Eugene Monroe, OT, Virginia
7.Oakland Raiders-Brian Orokpo, DE, Texas
8.Jacksonville Jaguars-Jeremy Maclin, WR, Missouri
9.Green Bay Packers-B.J. Raji, DT, Boston College
10.San Francisco 49ers-Mark Sanchez, QB, USC
11.Buffalo Bills-Malcolm Jenkins, CB, Ohio State
12.Denver Broncos-Aaron Maybin, LB, Penn State
13.Washington Redskins-Michael Oher, OT, Mississippi
14.New Orleans Saints-Chris Wells, RB, Ohio State
15.Houston Texans-Brian Cushing, LB, USC
16.San Diego Chargers-Andre Smith, OT, Alabama
17.New York Jets-Hakeem Nicks, WR, North Carolina
18.New England Patriots (from Chicago)-Rey Maualuga, LB, USC
19.Tampa Buccaneers-Percy Harvin, WR, Florida
20.Detroit Lions (from Dallas)-Tyson Jackson, DE, LSU
21.Philadelphia Eagles-Peria Jerry, DT, Mississippi
22.Minnesota Vikings-Vontae Davis, CB, Illinois
23.Arizona Cardinals (from New England)-Knowshon Moreno, RB, Georgia
24.Atlanta Falcons-Sean Smith, CB, Utah
25.Miami Dolphins-Clay Matthews, LB, USC


Updated mock as a few minutes ago

[clumping platelets]

mock trades:

NE GM traded #34 & #58 to Chi GM for #18

Ariz GM traded #31 & #95 to NE for #23

[EDS]

I dont see any LB right now after Curry with a top 15 pick grade, and I certainly don't see Maybin having it. They are all reaches at this point.

If Raji falls no matter who else is on the board (short of Curry) the pick is Raji and it takes .001 seconds to get it in. But then you have to ask yourself is DT a pressing need? No its not both Stroud and Williams played well last season and Johnson was a good rotational guy. So why would you be ok with Raji being picked as a non-need position, but not Jenkins?

Im not trying to be a dick about it but you have to see where you kinda back track on your point. We all know we need to improve our pass rush, and pass coverage on D. We have multiple ways of doing that and we don't have to just say ok we need a DE to help our pass rush because that's not always the best way. Id love to have coverage sacks happen, its one of my favorite things to see happen because its beyond demoralizing to an offense. I think adding a playmaking FS is a big key to this offseason for me.

The reason why the Bills should not draft Jenkins has everything to do with their longstanding policy of not paying corners big bucks. They just won't resign first round corners (Smith, Burris, Winfield, Clements, etc.) or if they do want to resign him, it will mean jettisoning McKelvin the year before. It is just a never ending cycle of find and replace. McGee is not going to be that expensive as he will not be a good fit in a lot of systems, and if he is that expensive then shame on the Bills for not planning ahead and resigning Greer.

The Raji example also is entirely different as he would clearly be a tremendous value at 11, whereas Jenkins is just an o.k. value. If Andre Smith were to fall to 11 then there is a strong argument that he would be the better value then Jenkins, and with the Peters situation [unfortunately] the way it is, a nice safety blanket.

Obviously this cycle of not resigning developed corners may break, but I am not counting on it due to the high costs involved.

[Mahdi]

Why are you moving our best OL from last year?? That makes no sense.
Because Smith is way more athletic than Walker and would provide great pass blocking on the edge which is crucial against all the 3-4 teams.

Walker moves inside where he can use his good feet and power as well as his solid run blocking.

You get the most value out of Smith by maximizing his talents and that would be at RT not G.

[Nighthawk]

Depending on the draft to fill holes is not a wise strategy

Eventually you have to fill holes...there is no getting around that. I just think there is better value at #11 then people are suggesting and I think taking Jenkins there doesn't really make sense. There seems to be plenty of talented, impactful players to chose from at that spot. I see things a little differently then some of you, which is OK. All I'm saying is that I wouldn't make that pick.

[clumping platelets]

Well, look at it this way:


McGee is UFA, Simpson and Youboty are RFA (only if new CBA isn't agreed to but could be UFA). Bills DO have a need for an impact DB at either CB or FS. I would have gone DL if one was available there. I also ASSUMED that the Peters situation was resolved with Bills resigning him. I had to make that assumption because we cannot trade players. I wanted to take a player truly worthy of #11 and also can come in this year and make a significant contribution. I think Jenkins is one of those players. That being said, I would have traded down if I could. Not sure who I would have drafted because the dynamics of the mock would have changed.

[clumping platelets]

Round 1

1.Detroit Lions-Matthew Stafford, QB, Georgia
2.St.Louis Rams-Jason Smith, OT, Baylor
3.Kansas City Chiefs-Everette Brown, DE/LB, Florida State
4.Seattle Seahawks-Michael Crabtree, WR ,Texas Tech
5.Cleveland Browns-Aaron Curry, LB, Wake Forest
6.Cincinnati Bengals-Eugene Monroe, OT, Virginia
7.Oakland Raiders-Brian Orokpo, DE, Texas
8.Jacksonville Jaguars-Jeremy Maclin, WR, Missouri
9.Green Bay Packers-B.J. Raji, DT, Boston College
10.San Francisco 49ers-Mark Sanchez, QB, USC
11.Buffalo Bills-Malcolm Jenkins, CB, Ohio State
12.Denver Broncos-Aaron Maybin, LB, Penn State
13.Washington Redskins-Michael Oher, OT, Mississippi
14.New Orleans Saints-Chris Wells, RB, Ohio State
15.Houston Texans-Brian Cushing, LB, USC
16.San Diego Chargers-Andre Smith, OT, Alabama
17.New York Jets-Hakeem Nicks, WR, North Carolina
18.New England Patriots (from Chicago)-Rey Maualuga, LB, USC
19.Tampa Buccaneers-Percy Harvin, WR, Florida
20.Detroit Lions (from Dallas)-Tyson Jackson, DE, LSU
21.Philadelphia Eagles-Peria Jerry, DT, Mississippi
22.Minnesota Vikings-Vontae Davis, CB, Illinois
23.Arizona Cardinals (from New England)-Knowshon Moreno, RB, Georgia
24.Atlanta Falcons-Sean Smith, CB, Utah
25.Miami Dolphins-Clay Matthews, LB, USC
26.Baltimore Ravens-Brandon Pettigrew, TE, Oklahoma State
27.Indianapolis Colts-Ziggy Hood, DT, Missouri
28.Philadelphia Eagles (from Carolina)-Donald Brown III, RB, Connecticut
29.New York Giants-Darius Heyward-Bey, WR, Maryland
30.Tennessee Titans-Kenny Britt, WR, Rutgers
31.New England Patriots (from Arizona)-Connor Barwin, LB, Cincinnati
32.Pittsburgh Steelers-Eben Britton, OT, Arizona

Round 2

33.Detroit Lions-Darius Butler, CB, Connecticut
34.Chicago Bears (from New England through Kansas City)-Michael Johnson, DE, Georgia Tech
35.St. Louis Rams-James Laurinaitis, LB, Ohio State
36.New England Patriots (from Cleveland)-William Beatty, OT, Connecticut
37.Seattle Seahawks-Louis Delmas, S, Western Michigan
38.Cincinnati Bengals-Alex Mack, C, California
39.Jacksonville Jaguars-Jamon Meredith, OT, South Carolina
40.Oakland Raiders-
41.Green Bay Packers-
42.Buffalo Bills-


OK.......times a gittin' close :D

[clumping platelets]

So, who can guess the 3 players I'm targeting here?

If I can make a deal and move down a few spots, I will but if I must make a pick: the 3 players are an OL, DL, TE.....I suspect all 3 will be available

[Dr. Lecter]

Ayers, Unger, Nelson?

I would take Ayers.

[clumping platelets]

Unger :nod:

[DraftBoy]

You gotta take Ayers here.

Unger makes no sense, he has the least exp at OG which is your need position on the OL. Ayers is a gift in Round 2, you should not pass on him.

[DraftBoy]

Because Smith is way more athletic than Walker and would provide great pass blocking on the edge which is crucial against all the 3-4 teams.

Walker moves inside where he can use his good feet and power as well as his solid run blocking.

You get the most value out of Smith by maximizing his talents and that would be at RT not G.

Why are you taking a player to play a position he hasn't ever played before?? Smith is a LT not a RT, I can't recall any time even in HS that he played RT. Also you don't take RT's at #11, you don't even take them before #20 and why would you want to move last year's best OL inside?

[clumping platelets]

What about DL Gilbert from San Jose St?

[DraftBoy]

What about DL Gilbert from San Jose St?

Hybrid DL who is a better DT in our system. He's an option but I certainly like Ayers a lot more.

[Mahdi]

Why are you taking a player to play a position he hasn't ever played before?? Smith is a LT not a RT, I can't recall any time even in HS that he played RT. Also you don't take RT's at #11, you don't even take them before #20 and why would you want to move last year's best OL inside?
Ok well im assuming we still have Peters. In that case playing Smith at RT gets the most value.

And I just explained the rationale behind moving Walker inside. Smith is more athletic and will give you better pass pro on the right, Walker can kick inside where he has played before and give you solid protection, power and run blocking inside against the big Linemen in our division.

Man seriously yer not about to tell me that LTs in college dont routinely shift to the right side in the NFL are you? Im pretty sure I dont have to go over that.

[Mahdi]

What about DL Gilbert from San Jose St?
Would be a sick pick in round 2 but with Ayers still available he can do many of the things Gilbert can but with more athleticism and speed.

[DraftBoy]

Ok well im assuming we still have Peters. In that case playing Smith at RT gets the most value.

And I just explained the rationale behind moving Walker inside. Smith is more athletic and will give you better pass pro on the right, Walker can kick inside where he has played before and give you solid protection, power and run blocking inside against the big Linemen in our division.

Man seriously yer not about to tell me that LTs in college dont routinely shift to the right side in the NFL are you? Im pretty sure I dont have to go over that.

Im pretty sure you are smart enough to know the only college LT's that shift to the right side are the less athletic ones not the other way around. This you know, you also know you don't take RT's before pick 20 in the 1st Round. You also don't explain in any way why you move our best OL from last year, inside to a position where he struggled at in Oakland which is why we signed him to play OT and not OG here.

[Dr. Lecter]

You gotta take Ayers here.

Unger makes no sense, he has the least exp at OG which is your need position on the OL. Ayers is a gift in Round 2, you should not pass on him.

To be fair with his talent a switch to guard would be pretty easy or Hangartner could play guard.

But I agree, at this point Ayers is the obvious choice.

[DraftBoy]

To be fair with his talent a switch to guard would be pretty easy or Hangartner could play guard.

But I agree, at this point Ayers is the obvious choice.

Why take even the slightest risk though? The guy can probably do it yes, but are you willing to bet a few million and a potential bust 2nd Round pick on it? Im not, and we know Han plays a better OC than OG from his game film and this is all for not considering that Unger mainly projects as an OT in the NFL. His game is better suited to play that and its where the money is at.

[clumping platelets]

:dizzy:

[Mahdi]

Im pretty sure you are smart enough to know the only college LT's that shift to the right side are the less athletic ones not the other way around. This you know, you also know you don't take RT's before pick 20 in the 1st Round. You also don't explain in any way why you move our best OL from last year, inside to a position where he struggled at in Oakland which is why we signed him to play OT and not OG here.
Ok...

Alex Barron -- LT in college RT in NFL

Jeff Otah -- LT in college RT in NFL

Jamaal Brown -- LT in college RT in NFL

Jordan Gross - LT in college RT in NFL

Michael Roos - LT in college RT in NFL

I can probably find a ton more... clearly many of these guys have since switched to the left side, Barron for now, Roos, Gross, Brown.

Meaning you can take these guys and play them on the right side as rookies and slide them over when you want to maximize their value as many other teams have done.

BTW Jammal Brown was selected 13th overall... played RT for 2 years then moved to LT where he has been a dominant player. You have way too many rules about drafting man.

Lastly, I have already explained twice why we would move Walker to LG. Smith gives better pass pro. MORE ATHLETIC, therefore better use of that athleticism on the edge to contain blitzing LBs in our division. Walker has played G and no he didnt struggle there with the Raiders. The Raiders line struggled as a whole, the Bills brought him over because they felt he had potential and versatility.

If things dont work out with Peters or if we just keep him for the remainder of his contract then were golden at LT when Smith moves over and Walker can slide back to RT or we just draft a replacement at RT.

[DraftBoy]

Ok...

Alex Barron -- LT in college RT in NFL

Jeff Otah -- LT in college RT in NFL

Jamaal Brown -- LT in college RT in NFL

Jordan Gross - LT in college RT in NFL

Michael Roos - LT in college RT in NFL

I can probably find a ton more... clearly many of these guys have since switched to the left side, Barron for now, Roos, Gross, Brown.

Meaning you can take these guys and play them on the right side as rookies and slide them over when you want to maximize their value as many other teams have done.

BTW Jammal Brown was selected 13th overall... played RT for 2 years then moved to LT where he has been a dominant player. You have way too many rules about drafting man.

Lastly, I have already explained twice why we would move Walker to LG. Smith gives better pass pro. MORE ATHLETIC, therefore better use of that athleticism on the edge to contain blitzing LBs in our division. Walker has played G and no he didnt struggle there with the Raiders. The Raiders line struggled as a whole, the Bills brought him over because they felt he had potential and versatility.

If things dont work out with Peters or if we just keep him for the remainder of his contract then were golden at LT when Smith moves over and Walker can slide back to RT or we just draft a replacement at RT.

No Walker certainly did struggle with the Raiders at OG which is why many people thought the deal we gave him was an overpayment.

You can list name after name but of the names you listed most have athletic issues and those that don't (Gross, and Brown) have moved over to their proper position. Barron is a RT because his lateral quickness is not as good as thought, Otah is still young and we aren't sure about him yet. You named three guys who were top 15 picks and played a small amount of time at RT (minus Barron) and the one guy who has stayed at RT has been thought of as a bust by a number of draft reviewers. Im sorry but you're not proving to me in any way why we should be wasting our pick on a RT. I dont see the Peters situation getting to the point where he's gone and we can't pick based on what ifs. Otherwise we should take a QB at 11 because what if Trent goes down again??

[clumping platelets]

:popcorn:

[Mahdi]

No Walker certainly did struggle with the Raiders at OG which is why many people thought the deal we gave him was an overpayment.

You can list name after name but of the names you listed most have athletic issues and those that don't (Gross, and Brown) have moved over to their proper position. Barron is a RT because his lateral quickness is not as good as thought, Otah is still young and we aren't sure about him yet. You named three guys who were top 15 picks and played a small amount of time at RT (minus Barron) and the one guy who has stayed at RT has been thought of as a bust by a number of draft reviewers. Im sorry but you're not proving to me in any way why we should be wasting our pick on a RT. I dont see the Peters situation getting to the point where he's gone and we can't pick based on what ifs. Otherwise we should take a QB at 11 because what if Trent goes down again??
K dont try and backtrack now... you said you dont bring in RTs to play LT and I have proven you wrong. Its irrelevant whether or not they moved to the left side later on. I made that point in my post already to show that their value can still be maximized on the left side later on.

Bottom line is, you take players that have value in the spot you take them. Smith is big time value at #11 and in a league where pressure comes from all directions having 2 premium pass protectors has almost become a necessity. Walker played well, granted, very well in fact, but Smith is much more athletic, talented and capable of handling the pass rushing athletes that will be coming our way, especially within the division.

The Bills would not have paid Walker if they looked at his tape and saw him struggle. They paid him because he held his own on a bad line. He can play G just as well as he plays OT. Bills fans just assumed he was a bad signing because of where he came from.

[DraftBoy]

I never once said the words you don't bring in RT to play LT. I said you don't draft RT before pick 20.

[clumping platelets]

#42 for #73, #83, and #187???

I'm working on this

[Mahdi]

I never once said the words you don't bring in RT to play LT. I said you don't draft RT before pick 20.
Maybe you dont,

The Panthers (twice), Saints, Lions (Gosder Cherilous), Cardinals (Levi Brown), Rams, Eagles (Shawn Andrews plays G for Eagles), Dolphins (Vernon Carey)....

But they do.....

All picked before #20.

[SABURZFAN]

Duke Robinson- G- Oklahoma


he would start right away next to Jason Peters. Bills need a mauler on the OL and he would be perfect.


i'm not sold on Ayers. i think Erik Flowers every time.

[clumping platelets]

If I get this deal..........I'm then gonna try and trade back up using #73 and our 4th.....I'll still have 2 3rd's

[Mahdi]

You gotta take Ayers here.

Unger makes no sense, he has the least exp at OG which is your need position on the OL. Ayers is a gift in Round 2, you should not pass on him.
I agree that Ayers has to be the pick but as for Unger. He is actually the most versatile of the interior linemen. He can easily play G.

[DraftBoy]

He is the mist versatile but that does not mean he can easily become an OG. There is no denying he has the least amount of exp there so why take him to do that when you can get a much better OG like Duke Robinson.

[clumping platelets]

:mad:

[Mahdi]

He is the mist versatile but that does not mean he can easily become an OG. There is no denying he has the least amount of exp there so why take him to do that when you can get a much better OG like Duke Robinson.
If its between Robinson and Unger its obviously Robinson hands down.

[EDS]

I would go with Ayers or Robinson at this point.

[clumping platelets]

well, Ayers will likely go at #41

I've got a deal in principle with GB GM for #73, #83, and a 6th (183 or 187)

That would give him back to back picks in rd 2

[clumping platelets]

ok....he's giving me #187

I'll see how the next 10-15 picks go and then see if I can move back up for Robinson or Unger

[DraftBoy]

Also keep in mind a player like Sidbury or Gilbert. You desperately must address your DL woes. I'm not a big fan of your trade down here but that's your call and you get good value for it.

[clumping platelets]

Also keep in mind a player like Sidbury or Gilbert. You desperately must address your DL woes. I'm not a big fan of your trade down here but that's your call and you get good value for it.


Both of them are on the radar.........I should be able to move back up easily.

[DraftBoy]

Yea I guess so I just don't like the idea of trading down and then trading back up. I prefer to trade down and stand pat. Just more of a personal preference than anything else.

[tampabay25690]

I think its CUSHING

[patmoran2006]

Clump:
Good post (though you got Everette Brown going third overall??)

But to play along anyway because none of us know--- I think it really comes down to Jason Peters.

If he's a Bill come draft day, there are a lot of possibilities. Of them I'd go with the best pass rusher on the board (in this case Maybin) and come back with the best OL I could find in round two (hopefully Duke Robinson)

But if Peters is gone it HAS to be the OT either Smith or Oher. That's worrisome, I dont see how a fragile Edwards possibly survives 2009 with a pair of projects protecting his blind side.

[Bert102176]

I would have taken Alex Mack gonna be a hell of a good to maybe great C and it all starts up the middle

[clumping platelets]

Clump:
Good post (though you got Everette Brown going third overall??)

But to play along anyway because none of us know--- I think it really comes down to Jason Peters.

If he's a Bill come draft day, there are a lot of possibilities. Of them I'd go with the best pass rusher on the board (in this case Maybin) and come back with the best OL I could find in round two (hopefully Duke Robinson)

But if Peters is gone it HAS to be the OT either Smith or Oher. That's worrisome, I dont see how a fragile Edwards possibly survives 2009 with a pair of projects protecting his blind side.


It's not me at #3.........there are 32 different people in this mock

[clumping platelets]

Ok............Gilbert and Ayers went #40 & #41........so neither would have been available to me. Unger went #42

I just made a deal to move back into rd 2 with the Philly GM

I sent 3(73), 3(75), and 3(83)

for

2(53), 3(85), 4(121), and 5(157)

basically the #83 and #85 are a wash

so I think this deal is a steal

Robinson still on board but still waiting for Dallas and Ny Jets to draft at #51 and #52

[SABURZFAN]

Ok............Gilbert and Ayers went #40 & #41........so neither would have been available to me. Unger went #42

I just made a deal to move back into rd 2 with the Philly GM

I sent 3(73), 3(75), and 3(83)

for

2(53), 3(85), 4(121), and 5(157)

basically the #83 and #85 are a wash

so I think this deal is a steal

Robinson still on board but still waiting for Dallas and Ny Jets to draft at #51 and #52


Dallas needs secondary help and the Jets have a defensive minded coach. the Duker should be yours if nobody trades ahead of you to get him.

[clumping platelets]

:nod:

[clumping platelets]

Duke! Duke! Duke!

#53 :D

I have an offer on the table for #61......a TE, DE, or OLB

[SABURZFAN]

get us an updated list so we know what we're working with.

[clumping platelets]

Round 1

1.Detroit Lions-Matthew Stafford, QB, Georgia
2.St.Louis Rams-Jason Smith, OT, Baylor
3.Kansas City Chiefs-Everette Brown, DE/LB, Florida State
4.Seattle Seahawks-Michael Crabtree, WR ,Texas Tech
5.Cleveland Browns-Aaron Curry, LB, Wake Forest
6.Cincinnati Bengals-Eugene Monroe, OT, Virginia
7.Oakland Raiders-Brian Orokpo, DE, Texas
8.Jacksonville Jaguars-Jeremy Maclin, WR, Missouri
9.Green Bay Packers-B.J. Raji, DT, Boston College
10.San Francisco 49ers-Mark Sanchez, QB, USC
11.Buffalo Bills-Malcolm Jenkins, CB, Ohio State
12.Denver Broncos-Aaron Maybin, LB, Penn State
13.Washington Redskins-Michael Oher, OT, Mississippi
14.New Orleans Saints-Chris Wells, RB, Ohio State
15.Houston Texans-Brian Cushing, LB, USC
16.San Diego Chargers-Andre Smith, OT, Alabama
17.New York Jets-Hakeem Nicks, WR, North Carolina
18.New England Patriots (from Chicago)-Rey Maualuga, LB, USC
19.Tampa Buccaneers-Percy Harvin, WR, Florida
20.Detroit Lions (from Dallas)-Tyson Jackson, DE, LSU
21.Philadelphia Eagles-Peria Jerry, DT, Mississippi
22.Minnesota Vikings-Vontae Davis, CB, Illinois
23.Arizona Cardinals (from New England)-Knowshon Moreno, RB, Georgia
24.Atlanta Falcons-Sean Smith, CB, Utah
25.Miami Dolphins-Clay Matthews, LB, USC
26.Baltimore Ravens-Brandon Pettigrew, TE, Oklahoma State
27.Indianapolis Colts-Ziggy Hood, DT, Missouri
28.Philadelphia Eagles (from Carolina)-Donald Brown III, RB, Connecticut
29.New York Giants-Darius Heyward-Bey, WR, Maryland
30.Tennessee Titans-Kenny Britt, WR, Rutgers
31.New England Patriots (from Arizona)-Connor Barwin, LB, Cincinnati
32.Pittsburgh Steelers-Eben Britton, OT, Arizona

Round 2

33.Detroit Lions-Darius Butler, CB, Connecticut
34.Chicago Bears (from New England through Kansas City)-Michael Johnson, DE, Georgia Tech
35.St. Louis Rams-James Laurinaitis, LB, Ohio State
36.New England Patriots (from Cleveland)-William Beatty, OT, Connecticut
37.Seattle Seahawks-Louis Delmas, S, Western Michigan
38.Cincinnati Bengals-Alex Mack, C, California
39.Jacksonville Jaguars-Jamon Meredith, OT, South Carolina
40.Oakland Raiders-Jarron Gilbert, DT, San Jose State
41.Green Bay Packers-Robert Ayers, DE/LB, Tennessee
42.Green Bay Packers (from Buffalo)-Max Unger, C, Oregon
43.San Francisco 49ers-Alphonso Smith, CB, Wake Forest
44.Miami Dolphins (from Washington)-D.J. Moore, CB, Vanderbilt
45.New York Giants (from New Orleans)-Clint Sintim, LB, Virginia
46.Houston Texans-Rashad Johnson, S, Alabama
47.Cleveland Browns (from New England through someone)-Brian Robiskie, WR, Ohio State
48.Pittsburgh Steelers (from Denver)-Eric Wood, C, Louisville
49.Chicago Bears-Josh Freeman, QB, Kansas State
50.Cleveland Browns (from Tampa Bay)-Patrick Chung, S, Oregon
51.Dallas Cowboys-Phil Loadholt, OT, Oklahoma
52.New York Jets-Ron Brace, DT, Boston College
53.Buffalo (from Philadelphia Eagles)-Duke Robinson, G, Oklahoma

:D

[DraftBoy]

You better hope a guy like Sidbury falls to Round 3 otherwise you go into the draft and subsequently leave the draft having failed to adequately address our biggest problem area.

Honestly I think Robinson is a solid but not great pick in that spot. His stock is falling and you likely could of gotten him Round 3 and if not a guy like Urbik, or Canfield is just as good and some would argue better than Robinson. I would of gone a different route here.

[SABURZFAN]

i'm sure that there's a white guy, with a high motor, out there somewhere.

[clumping platelets]

It's apparent that no matter what I do, DB will criticize it :(

I essentially traded down 11 spots, got the guy many of you wanted, added a 4th, 5th, and 6th and that's not good enough?

[chubluv]

Whens our/your next pick?

[TacklingDummy]

Green Bay gets an A+ so far.

9.Green Bay Packers-B.J. Raji, DT, Boston College
41.Green Bay Packers-Robert Ayers, DE/LB, Tennessee
42.Green Bay Packers (from Buffalo)-Max Unger, C, Oregon

[clumping platelets]

Whens our/your next pick?

Presently we have:

3(85), 4(110), 4(121), 5(147), 5(157), 6(183), 6(187), & 7(220)

I'm allowed one more trade but it cannot be with a tam "on the clock"

I offered #85 & #121 to Indy GM for #61.....if he wants #110, then I want Indy's 7th

My target is TE Cook or DE Sidbury......

[Mahdi]

It's apparent that no matter what I do, DB will criticize it :(

I essentially traded down 11 spots, got the guy many of you wanted, added a 4th, 5th, and 6th and that's not good enough?
If the draft actually goes this way. We are in a world of trouble. No offense Clump. Its just that I feel that the interior linemen are very deep and can be had in round 3. And the Jenkins pick means our DL is the same through the first day of the draft.

DB is right though. If Sidbury is there in round 3 you can save this draft.

[DraftBoy]

It's apparent that no matter what I do, DB will criticize it :(

I essentially traded down 11 spots, got the guy many of you wanted, added a 4th, 5th, and 6th and that's not good enough?

That's what I do, and that's not true either. I applaud your pick of Jenkins in Round 1, I just don't get the idea of this trade down or taking an OG here who has falling stock in a deep OG class. You didnt reach, but I dont think you got the best value for your pick either. You are heading into Round 3 with starting holes to fill still at TE, OLB, and DE. Not to mention depth needed at DT, WR, MLB, OC, and OG. I like Robinson overall but I think you could of waited and pulled the trigger too early on him.

I dont see Sidbury being there in Round 3 at this moment with no other DE really ahead of him. Kruger I guess is option #2 though Im not as sold on him. After that though pickings are slim with maybe a Brandon Williams, Maurice Evans, Michael Bennett type pick in Round 5 or later.

TE wise Id take Nelson in Round 3 over anybody else, if he's not there Id wait till Round 4 and grab Ingram.

Some MLB's to look at late would be a guy like Michael Tauiliili, Ive been all over this guy for a while and he was the defensive MVP of the shrine game. He'd be a 6th round pick more than likely. Outside if Freeman is there in Round 4 he'd be worth a shot then, he has good speed and as a C2 LB he could be successful. Later on guys like Ivy and Allen are good pickups.

DT wise a player like a Vance Walker, Fili Moala are solid 3rd Round picks. Chris Baker is worth a shot in the 5th-6th Round. Also maybe look at RJF in Round 4 as a DT prospect, he's raw but has a ton of potential and ability.

If Louis Muphy falls into Round 3, he's worth a pick, maybe look at an Austin Collie in Round 4, Tiquan Underwood, Patrick Turner, Brandon Gibson, Mohammed Massaquoi, Sammie Stroughter are all WR worth later round looks.

[DraftBoy]

If the draft actually goes this way. We are in a world of trouble. No offense Clump. Its just that I feel that the interior linemen are very deep and can be had in round 3. And the Jenkins pick means our DL is the same through the first day of the draft.

DB is right though. If Sidbury is there in round 3 you can save this draft.

We are not in a world of trouble we just need to maximize value of the remaining picks, he has a **** ton left so we should be ok in picking up a lot of depth which I love. I dont think he's going to get a guy to fix the DE problem, which is no big deal to me because I dont like many of this DE class anyways, next years is a lot stronger for the 4-3.

[Mahdi]

We are not in a world of trouble we just need to maximize value of the remaining picks, he has a **** ton left so we should be ok in picking up a lot of depth which I love. I dont think he's going to get a guy to fix the DE problem, which is no big deal to me because I dont like many of this DE class anyways, next years is a lot stronger for the 4-3.
Well the DL is in a world of trouble then. Till next year.

[DraftBoy]

Well the DL is in a world of trouble then. Till next year.

Again not true but we see things differently, and we've been over that.

[Mahdi]

Again not true but we see things differently, and we've been over that.
Yes we have been over that....

But its you that sees things differently. I think the rest of the football world knows Buffalo desperately needs DL help.

[clumping platelets]

Chris Ellis was a 3rd rd pick last season and did NADA..........relying on the draft to fill major holes is not a good strategy if you are expecting major contributions from rookies

[DraftBoy]

Yes we have been over that....

But its you that sees things differently. I think the rest of the football world knows Buffalo desperately needs DL help.

I dont think so, most of the rest of the football world sees Buffalo has two perenial pro bowl DLmen. They also saw how bad they were without Schoebel and with him back 100% healthy this year there is no reason to think he won't be back to his old self.

[Mahdi]

Chris Ellis was a 3rd rd pick last season and did NADA..........relying on the draft to fill major holes is not a good strategy if you are expecting major contributions from rookies
Chris Ellis was a project.

Im not denying that a draft pick may or may not have a huge impact but edge rushers like Brown and Maybin have speed that we dont currently have on our DL that can be used to rush some throws and make some plays that our current stable of DL cant do.

[DraftBoy]

Chris Ellis was a project.

Im not denying that a draft pick may or may not have a huge impact but edge rushers like Brown and Maybin have speed that we dont currently have on our DL that can be used to rush some throws and make some plays that our current stable of DL cant do.

Speed yes but the same mentality all our current DL already have.

[Mahdi]

I dont think so, most of the rest of the football world sees Buffalo has two perenial pro bowl DLmen. They also saw how bad they were without Schoebel and with him back 100% healthy this year there is no reason to think he won't be back to his old self.
Again....

Why is it that every draft/NFL analyst suggests or has us taking a DE round 1. Why is it that every time I read a Buffalo Bills Team needs article the first need is a DE?

If the football world agreed with you that wouldn't be the case.

[Mahdi]

Speed yes but the same mentality all our current DL already have.
Having the mentality and having the ability are to very different things. Kelsay and Schobel are anti-speed.

[DraftBoy]

Again....

Why is it that every draft/NFL analyst suggests or has us taking a DE round 1. Why is it that every time I read a Buffalo Bills Team needs article the first need is a DE?

If the football world agreed with you that wouldn't be the case.

Because the other DE sucks??? I never said DE wasn't a need area, I just dont think its fair to say our DL sucks.

[DraftBoy]

Having the mentality and having the ability are to very different things. Kelsay and Schobel are anti-speed.

Kelsay yes but Schobel isnt. And Kelsay has some quickness. Neither Brown nor Maybin has shown any ability to preform at the NFL level though either. So to assume they have the ability is a leap of faith. What they showed in the NCAA does not automatically transfer.

[Mahdi]

Because the other DE sucks??? I never said DE wasn't a need area, I just dont think its fair to say our DL sucks.
I never said our DL sucks.

Its a DL that is starving for a player that brings another dimension. Schobel is the perfect DE to have opposite a playmaking DE.

I like our DTs but they aren't exactly penetrators.

[Mahdi]

Kelsay yes but Schobel isnt. And Kelsay has some quickness. Neither Brown nor Maybin has shown any ability to preform at the NFL level though either. So to assume they have the ability is a leap of faith. What they showed in the NCAA does not automatically transfer.
Right its not automatic. But you have to start somewhere. Draft them, coach them, get them some experience, and then see what you got.

[DraftBoy]

Right its not automatic. But you have to start somewhere. Draft them, coach them, get them some experience, and then see what you got.

So Ellis doesn't count then??

[DraftBoy]

I never said our DL sucks.

Its a DL that is starving for a player that brings another dimension. Schobel is the perfect DE to have opposite a playmaking DE.

I like our DTs but they aren't exactly penetrators.

I think a penetrating DT like a Raji brings us the exact same thing as a plamaking DE.

[clumping platelets]

Last 3 picks

DT Moala, TE Cook, DE English

[DraftBoy]

Last 3 picks

DT Moala, TE Cook, DE English

No big losses, still in very good shape.

[Mahdi]

So Ellis doesn't count then??
Ellis is not as explosive, talented and wasn't as productive as Brown, Maybin, Orakpo. Which is why these 3 are gone top 15 and Ellis was a 3rd rounder.

Not saying he can't develop but you need more DLmen anyways.

2 years from now I would like to have 2 starting DEs other than Kelsay and Schobel so drafting them now so that they are ready to be big time players by that time is a good strategy.

[DraftBoy]

Ellis is not as explosive, talented and wasn't as productive as Brown, Maybin, Orakpo. Which is why these 3 are gone top 15 and Ellis was a 3rd rounder.

Not saying he can't develop but you need more DLmen anyways.

2 years from now I would like to have 2 starting DEs other than Kelsay and Schobel so drafting them now so that they are ready to be big time players by that time is a good strategy.

Ellis-19 Sacks, 132 Tackles, 11 PD, 5 FF, and 32 QBH
Brown-23 Sacks, 99 Tackles, 5 PD, 5 FF, and 6 QBH
Maybin-16 Sacks, 61 Tackles, 3 PD, 3 FF, and 1 QBH
Orakpo-23 Sacks, 103 Tackles, 3 PD, 6 FF, and 36 QBH

Would you like to retract and change your bolded statement?

[Mahdi]

Ellis-19 Sacks, 132 Tackles, 11 PD, 5 FF, and 32 QBH
Brown-23 Sacks, 99 Tackles, 5 PD, 5 FF, and 6 QBH
Maybin-16 Sacks, 61 Tackles, 3 PD, 3 FF, and 1 QBH
Orakpo-23 Sacks, 103 Tackles, 3 PD, 6 FF, and 36 QBH

Would you like to retract and change your bolded statement?
I'll retract the productive part. But I still think the other guys are way more talented.

Ellis - 3rd rd.

Orakpo, Brown, Maybin - Top 10

[clumping platelets]

Pass rush doesn't come from just DE's

[DraftBoy]

I'll retract the productive part. But I still think the other guys are way more talented.

Which is proven by???

[DraftBoy]

Pass rush doesn't come from just DE's

Bingo!!

[Mahdi]

Which is proven by???
By the fact that GMs are going to pay the big 3 DEs in this draft millions to be top 10 selections and Ellis was chosen on day 2 of the draft.

[DraftBoy]

By the fact that GMs are going to pay the big 3 DEs in this draft millions to be top 10 selections and Ellis was chosen on day 2 of the draft.

Yes because Busts don't happen and players don't get looked over every year. Please tell me you have something better than that weak argument.

[Mahdi]

Bingo!!
Yeah thats all good and great. But I have yet to see a team win the SuperBowl without an edge rusher.

DTs are definitely part of a pass rush, but having that alone is not enough. You can however have great DEs and average DTs and still have a solid pass rush.

[DraftBoy]

Yeah thats all good and great. But I have yet to see a team win the SuperBowl without an edge rusher.

DTs are definitely part of a pass rush, but having that alone is not enough. You can however have great DEs and average DTs and still have a solid pass rush.

We aren't making the Super Bowl this next year so we have time to add one. I love a bunch of next years DE's much better than this years.

[Mahdi]

Yes because Busts don't happen and players don't get looked over every year. Please tell me you have something better than that weak argument.
It has just as much conjecture as any argument you can produce. Only difference is that your opinion is shared by few and mine is shared by many.

[DraftBoy]

It has just as much conjecture as any argument you can produce. Only difference is that your opinion is shared by few and mine is shared by many.

My argument is what exactly again?

[Mahdi]

We aren't making the Super Bowl this next year so we have time to add one. I love a bunch of next years DE's much better than this years.
Good then we should get a DE to develop now so he will be ready to go during our SuperBowl run in 2010.

[DraftBoy]

Good then we should get a DE to develop now so he will be ready to go during our SuperBowl run in 2012.

Fixed.

And I agree we should continue to develop Ellis.

[Mahdi]

My argument is what exactly again?
That the 3 DEs are not a fit for our defense.

[Nighthawk]

Kelsay yes but Schobel isnt. And Kelsay has some quickness. Neither Brown nor Maybin has shown any ability to preform at the NFL level though either. So to assume they have the ability is a leap of faith. What they showed in the NCAA does not automatically transfer.

I agree about Schobel. However, your statement about what they have not automatically transferring to the NFL is true with most drafted players. Nobody really knows how a player is going to turn out...it's just a crapshoot. Thus getting caught up in "value" at a certain spot in the draft is a dangerous thing...IMO.

[Mahdi]

Fixed.

And I agree we should continue to develop Ellis.
O... is that when we are scheduled to go to the Super Bowl?

Thats funny cause we had the Cards penciled in for 2025.

[psubills62]

Smith over Oher, but where you going to play him? You can't move Peters, you're not going to bench Walker or move him inside. You're going to pay an OT 7-8 million a year to ride the pine?

Who exactly is getting paid 7-8 million? To my knowledge, the 11th pick only makes about 4-5 million per year, tops.

[clumping platelets]

:popcorn:

[SABURZFAN]

when's the next pick? how long you have to wait? i want to hear Draftboy criticize your pick. :snicker:

[DraftBoy]

when's the next pick? how long you have to wait? i want to hear Draftboy criticize your pick. :snicker:

That's what Im good at.

[Dr. Lecter]

That's what Im good at.

Friday night at 11:30 and you are online?

I thought you were good at drinking and finding women with questionable morals at this time?

[DraftBoy]

Friday night at 11:30 and you are online?

I thought you were good at drinking and finding women with questionable morals at this time?

Some of us have things we have to do cough*draft guide*cough that we have to make time for. Plus even I occasionally need a night in. Don't worry though tonight its on like Donkey Kong!

[clumping platelets]

Round 1

1.Detroit Lions-Matthew Stafford, QB, Georgia
2.St.Louis Rams-Jason Smith, OT, Baylor
3.Kansas City Chiefs-Everette Brown, DE/LB, Florida State
4.Seattle Seahawks-Michael Crabtree, WR ,Texas Tech
5.Cleveland Browns-Aaron Curry, LB, Wake Forest
6.Cincinnati Bengals-Eugene Monroe, OT, Virginia
7.Oakland Raiders-Brian Orokpo, DE, Texas
8.Jacksonville Jaguars-Jeremy Maclin, WR, Missouri
9.Green Bay Packers-B.J. Raji, DT, Boston College
10.San Francisco 49ers-Mark Sanchez, QB, USC
11.Buffalo Bills-Malcolm Jenkins, CB, Ohio State
12.Denver Broncos-Aaron Maybin, LB, Penn State
13.Washington Redskins-Michael Oher, OT, Mississippi
14.New Orleans Saints-Chris Wells, RB, Ohio State
15.Houston Texans-Brian Cushing, LB, USC
16.San Diego Chargers-Andre Smith, OT, Alabama
17.New York Jets-Hakeem Nicks, WR, North Carolina
18.New England Patriots (from Chicago)-Rey Maualuga, LB, USC
19.Tampa Buccaneers-Percy Harvin, WR, Florida
20.Detroit Lions (from Dallas)-Tyson Jackson, DE, LSU
21.Philadelphia Eagles-Peria Jerry, DT, Mississippi
22.Minnesota Vikings-Vontae Davis, CB, Illinois
23.Arizona Cardinals (from New England)-Knowshon Moreno, RB, Georgia
24.Atlanta Falcons-Sean Smith, CB, Utah
25.Miami Dolphins-Clay Matthews, LB, USC
26.Baltimore Ravens-Brandon Pettigrew, TE, Oklahoma State
27.Indianapolis Colts-Ziggy Hood, DT, Missouri
28.Philadelphia Eagles (from Carolina)-Donald Brown III, RB, Connecticut
29.New York Giants-Darius Heyward-Bey, WR, Maryland
30.Tennessee Titans-Kenny Britt, WR, Rutgers
31.New England Patriots (from Arizona)-Connor Barwin, LB, Cincinnati
32.Pittsburgh Steelers-Eben Britton, OT, Arizona

Round 2

33.Detroit Lions-Darius Butler, CB, Connecticut
34.Chicago Bears (from New England through Kansas City)-Michael Johnson, DE, Georgia Tech
35.St. Louis Rams-James Laurinaitis, LB, Ohio State
36.New England Patriots (from Cleveland)-William Beatty, OT, Connecticut
37.Seattle Seahawks-Louis Delmas, S, Western Michigan
38.Cincinnati Bengals-Alex Mack, C, California
39.Jacksonville Jaguars-Jamon Meredith, OT, South Carolina
40.Oakland Raiders-Jarron Gilbert, DT, San Jose State
41.Green Bay Packers-Robert Ayers, DE/LB, Tennessee
42.Green Bay Packers (from Buffalo)-Max Unger, C, Oregon
43.San Francisco 49ers-Alphonso Smith, CB, Wake Forest
44.Miami Dolphins (from Washington)-D.J. Moore, CB, Vanderbilt
45.New York Giants (from New Orleans)-Clint Sintim, LB, Virginia
46.Houston Texans-Rashad Johnson, S, Alabama
47.Cleveland Browns (from New England through someone)-Brian Robiskie, WR, Ohio State
48.Pittsburgh Steelers (from Denver)-Eric Wood, C, Louisville
49.Chicago Bears-Josh Freeman, QB, Kansas State
50.Cleveland Browns (from Tampa Bay)-Patrick Chung, S, Oregon
51.Dallas Cowboys-Phil Loadholt, OT, Oklahoma
52.New York Jets-Ron Brace, DT, Boston College
53.Buffalo Bills (from Philadelphia)-Duke Robinson, OG, Oklahoma
54.New York Giants (from Minnesota)-William Moore, S, Missouri
55.Atlanta Falcons-Fili Moala, DT, USC
56.Miami Dolphins-Jared Cook, TE, South Carolina
57.Baltimore Ravens-Larry English, LB, Northern Illinois
58.Chicago Bears (from New England)-Gerold Cadogan, OT, Penn St
59.Carolina Panthers-Paul Kruger, DE, Utah
60.Minnesota Vikings (from N.Y. Giants)-Troy Kropog, OT, Tulane
61.Indianapolis Colts-Juaquin Iglesias, WR, Oklahoma
62.Tennessee Titans-Sen’Derrick Marks, DT, Auburn
63.Arizona Cardinals-Marcus Freeman, LB, Ohio State
64.Denver Broncos (from Pittsburgh)-LeSean McCoy, RB, Pittsburgh

Round 3

65.Detroit Lions-Andy Levitre, OG, Oregon State
66.St. Louis Rams-Lawrence Sidbury, DE, Richmond
67.Kansas City Chiefs-Jasper Brinkley, LB, South Carolina
68.Seattle Seahawks-Herman Johnson, OG, LSU
69.Dallas Cowboys (from Cleveland)-Chris Clemons, S, Clemson
70.Cincinnati Bengals-Mike Mickens, CB, Cincinnati
71.Oakland Raiders-Derrick Williams, WR, Penn State
72.Jacksonville Jaguars-Jairus Byrd, CB, Oregon
73.Philadelphia Eagles (from Buffalo through Green Bay)-Chase Coffman, TE, Missouri
74.San Francisco 49ers-Louis Murphy, WR, Florida
75.Philadelphis Eagles (from Buffalo)-Antoine Caldwell, C, Alabama
76.New York Jets (from New Orleans)-Shonn Greene, RB, Iowa
77.Houston Texans-Coye Francies, CB, San Jose State
78.San Diego Chargers-Darryl Beckwith, LB, LSU
79.Denver Broncos-Chip Vaughn, S, Wake Forest
80.Washington Redskins-David Veikune, DE Hawaii
81.Tampa Bay Buccaneers-Vance Walker, DT, Georgia Tech
82.Detroit Lions (from Dallas)-Dannell Ellerbe, LB, Georgia
83.Philadelphis Eagles (from Buffalo/Green Bay/NY Jets)-Darcel McBath, S, Texas Tech
84.Denver Broncos (from Chicago)-Dorell Scott, DT, Clemson
85.Buffalo Bills (from Philadelphia)-

Who did I take at #85? :D

[SABURZFAN]

Johnathon Luigs- C- Arkansas

[DraftBoy]

TE Shawn Nelson

[Dr. Lecter]

TE Shawn Nelson

With only one TE off the board, I might agree with Sab here and target Nelson, Coffman or Ingraham with my next pick.

[clumping platelets]

TE Shawn Nelson


:nod:


I still have 2 4th's, 2 5th's, 2 6th's, and a 7th

[clumping platelets]

Johnathon Luigs- C- Arkansas


Will be considered in rd 4

[DraftBoy]

:nod:


I still have 2 4th's, 2 5th's, 2 6th's, and a 7th

Well here are your other need positions and your top options there that are left;
DE-
Maurice Evans
Tim Jamison
Michael Bennett
Pannel Egboh
Brandon Williams

DT-
Ricky Jean Francois
Corvey Irvin
Myron Pryor
Demonte Bolden
Clinton McDonald
Terrill Byrd
John Gill
Chris Baker

OLB-
Gerald McRath
Ashlee Palmer
Tyrone McKenzie
Zack Follett
Anthony Heygood


TE-
Shawn Nelson
Cornelius Ingram
Travis Beckum
James Case

WR-
Austin Collie
Patrick Turner
Jarrett Dillard
Brian Robiskie
Mohamed Massaquoi
Kenny McKinley

Basically I think your best option here are;
Nelson
McRath

[clumping platelets]

I took Nelson in the 3rd :huh:

[clumping platelets]

What about LB Jason Williams or DE/LB Pierre Walters?

[DraftBoy]

Oh you said did, I thought you said who should I take. Well now you have a breakdown for some targets for Round 4 at least.

[clumping platelets]

Round 1

1.Detroit Lions-Matthew Stafford, QB, Georgia
2.St.Louis Rams-Jason Smith, OT, Baylor
3.Kansas City Chiefs-Everette Brown, DE/LB, Florida State
4.Seattle Seahawks-Michael Crabtree, WR ,Texas Tech
5.Cleveland Browns-Aaron Curry, LB, Wake Forest
6.Cincinnati Bengals-Eugene Monroe, OT, Virginia
7.Oakland Raiders-Brian Orokpo, DE, Texas
8.Jacksonville Jaguars-Jeremy Maclin, WR, Missouri
9.Green Bay Packers-B.J. Raji, DT, Boston College
10.San Francisco 49ers-Mark Sanchez, QB, USC
11.Buffalo Bills-Malcolm Jenkins, CB, Ohio State
12.Denver Broncos-Aaron Maybin, LB, Penn State
13.Washington Redskins-Michael Oher, OT, Mississippi
14.New Orleans Saints-Chris Wells, RB, Ohio State
15.Houston Texans-Brian Cushing, LB, USC
16.San Diego Chargers-Andre Smith, OT, Alabama
17.New York Jets-Hakeem Nicks, WR, North Carolina
18.New England Patriots (from Chicago)-Rey Maualuga, LB, USC
19.Tampa Buccaneers-Percy Harvin, WR, Florida
20.Detroit Lions (from Dallas)-Tyson Jackson, DE, LSU
21.Philadelphia Eagles-Peria Jerry, DT, Mississippi
22.Minnesota Vikings-Vontae Davis, CB, Illinois
23.Arizona Cardinals (from New England)-Knowshon Moreno, RB, Georgia
24.Atlanta Falcons-Sean Smith, CB, Utah
25.Miami Dolphins-Clay Matthews, LB, USC
26.Baltimore Ravens-Brandon Pettigrew, TE, Oklahoma State
27.Indianapolis Colts-Ziggy Hood, DT, Missouri
28.Philadelphia Eagles (from Carolina)-Donald Brown III, RB, Connecticut
29.New York Giants-Darius Heyward-Bey, WR, Maryland
30.Tennessee Titans-Kenny Britt, WR, Rutgers
31.New England Patriots (from Arizona)-Connor Barwin, LB, Cincinnati
32.Pittsburgh Steelers-Eben Britton, OT, Arizona

Round 2

33.Detroit Lions-Darius Butler, CB, Connecticut
34.Chicago Bears (from New England through Kansas City)-Michael Johnson, DE, Georgia Tech
35.St. Louis Rams-James Laurinaitis, LB, Ohio State
36.New England Patriots (from Cleveland)-William Beatty, OT, Connecticut
37.Seattle Seahawks-Louis Delmas, S, Western Michigan
38.Cincinnati Bengals-Alex Mack, C, California
39.Jacksonville Jaguars-Jamon Meredith, OT, South Carolina
40.Oakland Raiders-Jarron Gilbert, DT, San Jose State
41.Green Bay Packers-Robert Ayers, DE/LB, Tennessee
42.Green Bay Packers (from Buffalo)-Max Unger, C, Oregon
43.San Francisco 49ers-Alphonso Smith, CB, Wake Forest
44.Miami Dolphins (from Washington)-D.J. Moore, CB, Vanderbilt
45.New York Giants (from New Orleans)-Clint Sintim, LB, Virginia
46.Houston Texans-Rashad Johnson, S, Alabama
47.Cleveland Browns (from New England through someone)-Brian Robiskie, WR, Ohio State
48.Pittsburgh Steelers (from Denver)-Eric Wood, C, Louisville
49.Chicago Bears-Josh Freeman, QB, Kansas State
50.Cleveland Browns (from Tampa Bay)-Patrick Chung, S, Oregon
51.Dallas Cowboys-Phil Loadholt, OT, Oklahoma
52.New York Jets-Ron Brace, DT, Boston College
53.Buffalo Bills (from Philadelphia)-Duke Robinson, OG, Oklahoma
54.New York Giants (from Minnesota)-William Moore, S, Missouri
55.Atlanta Falcons-Fili Moala, DT, USC
56.Miami Dolphins-Jared Cook, TE, South Carolina
57.Baltimore Ravens-Larry English, LB, Northern Illinois
58.Chicago Bears (from New England)-Gerold Cadogan, OT, Penn St
59.Carolina Panthers-Paul Kruger, DE, Utah
60.Minnesota Vikings (from N.Y. Giants)-Troy Kropog, OT, Tulane
61.Indianapolis Colts-Juaquin Iglesias, WR, Oklahoma
62.Tennessee Titans-Sen’Derrick Marks, DT, Auburn
63.Arizona Cardinals-Marcus Freeman, LB, Ohio State
64.Denver Broncos (from Pittsburgh)-LeSean McCoy, RB, Pittsburgh

Round 3

65.Detroit Lions-Andy Levitre, OG, Oregon State
66.St. Louis Rams-Lawrence Sidbury, DE, Richmond
67.Kansas City Chiefs-Jasper Brinkley, LB, South Carolina
68.Seattle Seahawks-Herman Johnson, OG, LSU
69.Dallas Cowboys (from Cleveland)-Chris Clemons, S, Clemson
70.Cincinnati Bengals-Mike Mickens, CB, Cincinnati
71.Oakland Raiders-Derrick Williams, WR, Penn State
72.Jacksonville Jaguars-Jairus Byrd, CB, Oregon
73.Philadelphia Eagles (from Buffalo through Green Bay)-Chase Coffman, TE, Missouri
74.San Francisco 49ers-Louis Murphy, WR, Florida
75.Philadelphis Eagles (from Buffalo)-Antoine Caldwell, C, Alabama
76.New York Jets (from New Orleans)-Shonn Greene, RB, Iowa
77.Houston Texans-Coye Francies, CB, San Jose State
78.San Diego Chargers-Darryl Beckwith, LB, LSU
79.Denver Broncos-Chip Vaughn, S, Wake Forest
80.Washington Redskins-David Veikune, DE Hawaii
81.Tampa Bay Buccaneers-Vance Walker, DT, Georgia Tech
82.Detroit Lions (from Dallas)-Dannell Ellerbe, LB, Georgia
83.Philadelphis Eagles (from Buffalo/Green Bay/NY Jets)-Darcel McBath, S, Texas Tech
84.Denver Broncos (from Chicago)-Dorell Scott, DT, Clemson
85.Buffalo Bills (from Philadelphia)-Shawn Nelson, TE, Southern Mississippi
86.Minnesota Vikings-Chris Baker, DT, Hampton
87.Miami Dolphins-Pat White, QB, West Virginia
88.Baltimore Ravens-Victor Harris, CB, Virginia Tech
89.Cleveland Browns (from New England)-Jonathan Luigs, C, Arkansas
90.Atlanta Falcons-James Casey, TE, Rice
91.New York Giants-Keenen Lewis, CB, Oregon State
92.Indianapolis Colts-Rashad Jennings, RB, Liberty
93.Carolina Panthers-Rhett Bomar, QB, Sam Houston State
94.Tennessee Titans- Sherrod Martin, CB/FS, Troy
95.New England Patriots (from Arizona)- Asher Allen, CB, Georgia
96.Denver Broncos (from Pittsburgh)- Frantz Joseph, ILB, Florida Atlantic
97.New England Patriots (compensatory)- Alex Magee, DL, Purdue
98.Cincinnati Bengals (compensatory)- Kraig Urbik, OG, Wisc
99.Chicago Bears (compensatory)- Davis Bruton, S, Notre Dame
100.N.Y. Giants (compensatory)- Andre Brown, RB, North Carolina State

Round 4


101.Dallas Cowboys (from Detroit)- Kevin Barnes, CB, Maryland
102.Kansas City Chiefs- Michael Hamlin, S, Clemson.
103.St. Louis Rams- Ramses Barden, WR, Cal Poly
104.New England Patriots (from Cleveland)- Cornelius Ingram, TE, Florida
105.Seattle Seahawks- Tyrone McKenzie, OLB, South Florida
106.Cincinnati Bengals-
107.Jacksonville Jaguars-
108.Oakland Raiders-
109.Green Bay Packers-
110.Buffalo Bills-


Just postin' an update as a bump :D

[clumping platelets]

What about LB Jason Williams or DE/LB Pierre Walters?


Hey Draftyboy :mad:

[DraftBoy]

Hey Draftyboy :mad:

Its DraftBoy, not Draftyboy. Get it right!

Jason Williams is an undersized LB around 6'1, 230-240. Relies on speed (4.55-4.6) and anticipation to make plays on the football field. He has explosive hitting power but lacks good play recognition skills and has never faced top level competition. He is a leader on D and is not afraid to get on a teamate to make a play. He needs to work on shedding blocks and getting stronger for the NFL. My projection is Round 3-4 for him. He'd be a ST demon his first two years in the NFL while he accilimated and got his body in NFL ready shape to play SLB.

Pierre Waters is a DE in my book right now, 6'4 in the 265-270 range he has good speed off the edge and really made a name for himself at the Texas v. The Nation bowl gaming. Was one of the top two prospects there. He's not a true sack artist though finishing last year with only 5 sacks but he did 48 tackles, and 16 TFL so his production was similar to that of Robert Ayers. The one thing I really like about Waters is that while he is quick and has a good first step he likes to work inside and is not the rush upfield mentality that a lot of the top DE prospects have. He's a 6th Round prospect right now to me.

[clumping platelets]

Thanks :snicker:

[clumping platelets]

My next pick is gonna be Williams :ontome:

[DraftBoy]

My next pick is gonna be Williams :ontome:

Why? McRath is a much better LB than Williams along with a lot of other guys. You are taking a project player who likely wont even push Ellison.

[The Spaz]

My next pick is gonna be Williams :ontome:

Dude noooooooooo!:puke:

[The Spaz]

Ashlee Palmer,Tyrone McKenzie, Merrill Johnson, Zack Follett, Anthony Heygood are all LB's I would pick before Johnson.

[DraftBoy]

Ashlee Palmer,Tyrone McKenzie, Merrill Johnson, Zack Follett, Anthony Heygood are all LB's I would pick before Johnson.

I would take McRath ahead of all those guys.

McKenzie is gone already.

[clumping platelets]

What about Massaquoi here?