Kruger Visits

[Romes]

http://buf.scout.com/2/852644.html

Another second Rd DE is/was in town.

[The Spaz]

Oh no and he's white. The outrage....lol

[Mahdi]

K c'mon... no white guys.

[Voltron]

Bunch of Racists :tongue:




:snicker:

[cpearl]

As soon as I read "high motor" I closed the page.

[FlyingDutchman]

http://www.siyumhaseinfeld.com/images/chars/kruger2.jpg

[Tatonka]

i dont understand the white high motor thing to be honest. 50% of the players in the draft are described as "high motor"..

schobel is white and has been great for us until he got hurt last year.

jared allen is white.. so is aaron kampman..

there are probably more GOOD white DEs than bad ones in the league.

just cause he is described as "High motor" and white doesnt mean he is going to be Ryan Denny or Chris Kelsay.

im just saying.

[The Spaz]

i dont understand the white high motor thing to be honest. 50% of the players in the draft are described as "high motor"..

schobel is white and has been great for us until he got hurt last year.

jared allen is white.. so is aaron kampman..

there are probably more GOOD white DEs than bad ones in the league.

just cause he is described as "High motor" and white doesnt mean he is going to be Ryan Denny or Chris Kelsay.

im just saying.

I agree completely and I just half to laugh because the people making these comments are probably white. I just think people are frustrated with our DE's in general and they just happen to be white. At least I hope this is the case.

[trapezeus]

the high motor guys are good as a compliment to a real pass rusher and a decent LB unit that can cover and tackle. But to have a DL of all high motor guys is pathetic. it's like playing Nintendo ice hockey and picking all skinny guys. you have to have one big guy to keep the whole thing honest.

i really don't want another undersized high motor, rush the passer on the great circle route leaving the running lanes to ellison and another slow undersized LB. That's not going to get the team off the field after 3rd downs.

[venis2k1]

Freddy Kruger?

[Mahdi]

i dont understand the white high motor thing to be honest. 50% of the players in the draft are described as "high motor"..

schobel is white and has been great for us until he got hurt last year.

jared allen is white.. so is aaron kampman..

there are probably more GOOD white DEs than bad ones in the league.

just cause he is described as "High motor" and white doesnt mean he is going to be Ryan Denny or Chris Kelsay.

im just saying.
Aaron Schobel is exactly what I dont want. A guy that has to rely on relentlessness to get to the QB.

We need a guy that has pure pass rushing talent that can do things effortlessly (seemingly).

Jared Allen is a beast. Schobel is nothing like him.

[bigbub2352]

We need playmakers on D, its the Scheme that is killing us

[Mahdi]

We need playmakers on D, its the Scheme that is killing us
Schemes dont win and lose games. The execution of a scheme wins and loses games. We need players that can execute what the Cover 2 calls for. Not one player on our DL is suited to the Cover 2. Add Maybin, Jarron Gilbert and a playmaker at OLB to our D and the scheme will look great.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

Add Maybin, Jarron Gilbert and a playmaker at OLB to our D and the scheme will look great.

I hear that man, I would rather have Everette but Maybin will satisfie me very much. I've been on the Mualuga bandwagon but would love Maybin. Gilbert is by far one of my favorite players in this draft.

[Nighthawk]

He's garbage...pass!

[The Spaz]

He's garbage...pass!

Tell us about him.

[bigbub2352]

Schemes dont win and lose games. The execution of a scheme wins and loses games. We need players that can execute what the Cover 2 calls for. Not one player on our DL is suited to the Cover 2. Add Maybin, Jarron Gilbert and a playmaker at OLB to our D and the scheme will look great.
Schemes are exactly what win and lose u games, if you dont have players to fit the schemes like we do Stroud is not a Cover 2 DT Whitner is not a Cover 2 SS, Poz and Mitchell are not Cover 2 LB, Kelsay and Schobel are not Cover 2 DEs hence why our D gets smoked at will

We want a playmaking offense and power running game yet we dont Have a Power OLINe set up he have zone blockers that cant get out into space, we have a QB that has trouble making plays downfeild cause he doesnt have the confidence or protection the OLine should provide, We dont have a power runnning game FB either, we dont have a TE that can makes plays in the passing game

So personnel and guessing who mite be good out of the draft will just fall into our Schemes we run under this staff are horrible and will render any prospect or FA uneffecive, watch how bad TO's numbers are this yr under Turk the cocky ass hole Schonert
Our Schemes suck therefore our teams suck and the coachs coaching these schemes suck hence 3 straight 7-9 seasons

[FlyingDutchman]

Heres his pro day workout

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfzNN7WTFvI

[FlyingDutchman]

GOD I want Brian Orakpo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZTelDHwUwY

[Syderick]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xEzGIuY7kw

[Mahdi]

Schemes are exactly what win and lose u games, if you dont have players to fit the schemes like we do Stroud is not a Cover 2 DT Whitner is not a Cover 2 SS, Poz and Mitchell are not Cover 2 LB, Kelsay and Schobel are not Cover 2 DEs hence why our D gets smoked at will

We want a playmaking offense and power running game yet we dont Have a Power OLINe set up he have zone blockers that cant get out into space, we have a QB that has trouble making plays downfeild cause he doesnt have the confidence or protection the OLine should provide, We dont have a power runnning game FB either, we dont have a TE that can makes plays in the passing game

So personnel and guessing who mite be good out of the draft will just fall into our Schemes we run under this staff are horrible and will render any prospect or FA uneffecive, watch how bad TO's numbers are this yr under Turk the cocky ass hole Schonert
Our Schemes suck therefore our teams suck and the coachs coaching these schemes suck hence 3 straight 7-9 seasons
Ok but your explanation proves that its the players that dont fit the scheme not the scheme itself.

For the record I do believe Whitner, Poz , Mitchell and Stroud fit the cover 2 but without DEs that can get after QBs and force the issue its irrelevant.

[bigbub2352]

Ok but your explanation proves that its the players that dont fit the scheme not the scheme itself.

For the record I do believe Whitner, Poz , Mitchell and Stroud fit the cover 2 but without DEs that can get after QBs and force the issue its irrelevant.
agreed
we should be looking at changing to a 3-4 scheme anyway that is what the talent that has been coming out of college the last 5 years is better fit to play in

[Mahdi]

agreed
we should be looking at changing to a 3-4 scheme anyway that is what the talent that has been coming out of college the last 5 years is better fit to play in
Sure you could make that argument but I would say that a lot of the talented OLB prospects that have come through over the years and coming out this year have the skills to play DE in a cover 2 just as easily as they can play OLB in a 3-4.

Merriman for example is 6'4 270... don't you think that with his skills, athleticism and talent he could have thrived the same if drafted by a cover 2 team rather than a 3-4 team? Same can be said for DeMarcus Ware. I could see him being a Osi-like DE in a cover 2.

[Tatonka]

Jared Allen is a beast. Schobel is nothing like him.

um..

aaron schobel

2003-2007 the guy had 52 sacks, 16 forced fumbles, and 314 tackles.

jared allen

2004-2008 the guy has 57.5 sacks, 16 forced fumbles, and 281 tackles.

i think you really need to check your facts before you dog a great player like schobel so quickly.

[SABURZFAN]

Tell us about him.



he's a white guy with a high motor. :snicker:

[Mahdi]

um..

aaron schobel

2003-2007 the guy had 52 sacks, 16 forced fumbles, and 314 tackles.

jared allen

2004-2008 the guy has 57.5 sacks, 16 forced fumbles, and 281 tackles.

i think you really need to check your facts before you dog a great player like schobel so quickly.
I dont care about the stats when it comes to Schobel. He is not a game changer. He gets a TON of coverage sacks due to his motor and rarely gets the crucial game changing sacks or plays that flip a game on its head.

Jared Allen can get to a QB in a variety of ways, forces fumbles and is a game changer. He can speed rush, bull rush or swim you to the QB.

[Tatonka]

jared allen does not force more fumbles than schobel.

he has a few more sacks than schobel (while playing next to the best DT combination in the league).

and he has less tackles..

say what you want.. i dont give a crap if schobel gets "coverage" sacks.. he gets sacks.. he was a no name that made the probowl because other guys know how good he is.. he is consistent and helps the team win.. and we looked awful with him out.. it is funny.. you complain about our secondary, but then attribute his sacks to coverage..

jared allen is a great player. i would love to have him on our team.. and he is younger than schobel too.. so i would take allen over schobel at this point.. but both guys are great players. consistent numbers like that over a 4 year period are not a fluke.

[Mahdi]

jared allen does not force more fumbles than schobel.

he has a few more sacks than schobel (while playing next to the best DT combination in the league).

and he has less tackles..

say what you want.. i dont give a crap if schobel gets "coverage" sacks.. he gets sacks.. he was a no name that made the probowl because other guys know how good he is.. he is consistent and helps the team win.. and we looked awful with him out.. it is funny.. you complain about our secondary, but then attribute his sacks to coverage..

jared allen is a great player. i would love to have him on our team.. and he is younger than schobel too.. so i would take allen over schobel at this point.. but both guys are great players. consistent numbers like that over a 4 year period are not a fluke.
I complained about the secondary? When was this? I like our secondary. I hate our DL.

And it does make a difference when yer a coverage sack specialist as opposed to say someone like Osi Umenyiora who can beat you with his first step or a shove.

The difference is that Tom Brady isn't going to sit around waiting for Schobel to get to him in 3 seconds. Its either you beat your guy off the snap or its a completion.

For me, I could care less about the stats, Schobel doesn't get enough pressures and hurries on Qbs to force plays or rush decisions. He gets to the QB after he outworks the OT and that's just not good enough to be a difference maker.

[Tatonka]

the stats say he gets more than the majority of the NFL and just as much as allen.

your trying to deny facts.. coverage sacks count.. and your full of it if you think that every DE in the league doesnt get coverage sacks.

qbs like brady and manning rarely get sacked by anyone because of what you said.. i dont care who the DE is.

the numbers are what they are.. but like you said in another thread.. the grass is always greener.

[Mahdi]

the stats say he gets more than the majority of the NFL and just as much as allen.

your trying to deny facts.. coverage sacks count.. and your full of it if you think that every DE in the league doesnt get coverage sacks.

qbs like brady and manning rarely get sacked by anyone because of what you said.. i dont care who the DE is.

the numbers are what they are.. but like you said in another thread.. the grass is always greener.
Well, again, dont care about the sacks..... I care about getting pressure and forcing plays. Schobel doesn't do it enough because he doesn't have the ability to. Dont get me wrong, I love his hustle. But he will never have the impact guys like Strahan, Umenyiora, Freeney, Mathis and Allen have.

[Tatonka]

yeah, because dwight freeney got tons of pressures in 2006 and 2007.. but only had 5.5 sacks and 3.5 sacks...


that is awesome.. dominant even.

whatever.

[Mahdi]

yeah, because dwight freeney got tons of pressures in 2006 and 2007.. but only had 5.5 sacks and 3.5 sacks...


that is awesome.. dominant even.

whatever.
Yeah actually... that's exactly it.. he may not have posted the sacks but he gets consistent pressure on Qbs and that means more than stats. Getting a QB to make a quick decision on a consistent basis is a HUGE advantage in for your secondary. Most DE average only 1 sack a game anyways. Thats 16 snaps out of hundreds of other snaps when a sack isn't recorded. I care more about the 600 other snaps a DE is involved in than just those 16 he gets a stat for. And Schobel is way below the best DEs in the league in that category.

[Tatonka]

Yeah actually... that's exactly it.. he may not have posted the sacks but he gets consistent pressure on Qbs and that means more than stats. Getting a QB to make a quick decision on a consistent basis is a HUGE advantage in for your secondary. Most DE average only 1 sack a game anyways. Thats 16 snaps out of hundreds of other snaps when a sack isn't recorded. I care more about the 600 other snaps a DE is involved in than just those 16 he gets a stat for. And Schobel is way below the best DEs in the league in that category.

i watched plenty of games freeney played during that time.. you are giving him way to much credit.. he got owned the season he got 5.5 sacks.. i think he had 3 sacks in one game late in the season.. but he is so small that he actually gets eaten alive by good LTs a lot of times.. he is completely overrated.

i guess we can agree to disagree.

[venis2k1]

"Systems don't win, players do."

- Marv Levy

[Mahdi]

i watched plenty of games freeney played during that time.. you are giving him way to much credit.. he got owned the season he got 5.5 sacks.. i think he had 3 sacks in one game late in the season.. but he is so small that he actually gets eaten alive by good LTs a lot of times.. he is completely overrated.

i guess we can agree to disagree.
Well I guess we have different definitions of what a productive DE is. You look at the sack totals. I look at the overall impact on the game. Freeney is always feared and QBs know they have a very short amount of time to get rid of the ball so they will throw quick. Thats an advantage created by Freeney. If he is not there they are a completely different team.

Without Schobel we are essentially the same.

[Tatonka]

without schobel we are essentially the same??????

did you see how bad our pass rush was last year?? your saying that is the same as it always is? you are just flat out wrong.

and freeney is not as feared as you are making him out to be.. mathis is just as good, if not better than freeney.

[Mahdi]

without schobel we are essentially the same??????

did you see how bad our pass rush was last year?? your saying that is the same as it always is? you are just flat out wrong.

and freeney is not as feared as you are making him out to be.. mathis is just as good, if not better than freeney.
Our pass rush was just as bad the first 5 games of the season when Schobel was healthy. In fact its been bad dating back to 2007. Which is why we were all hoping for a first round DE and got a CB instead.

[DraftBoy]

Our pass rush was just as bad the first 5 games of the season when Schobel was healthy. In fact its been bad dating back to 2007. Which is why we were all hoping for a first round DE and got a CB instead.

No we are all not. Some of us realize we need to take the best value, not just the best DE.

[Mahdi]

No we are all not. Some of us realize we need to take the best value, not just the best DE.
Well good thing there is value at DE this year then.

[DraftBoy]

If you play the 3-4 there certainly is.

[Mahdi]

If you play the 3-4 there certainly is.
ok well me, Carucci, Kirwan, Kiper, McShay, Davis, Casserly, Rang, Reuter, Judge, Lombardi, Wyche, Brandt and Mayock will have our opinion and you have yours.

[DraftBoy]

ok well me, Carucci, Kirwan, Kiper, McShay, Davis, Casserly, Rang, Reuter, Judge, Lombardi, Wyche, Brandt and Mayock will have our opinion and you have yours.

Did they all say something about 3-4 DE's which is what I just commented about??

I didnt mention 4-3 DE's at all, now did I?

[Mahdi]

Did they all say something about 3-4 DE's which is what I just commented about??

I didnt mention 4-3 DE's at all, now did I?
Im pretty sure were not talking about 3-4 DEs.

[DraftBoy]

Im pretty sure were not talking about 3-4 DEs.

You mentioned its a good year for DE's and I said yes, its a very good year for 3-4 DE's. Just because your intent wasn't to discuss them does not mean my point is automatically in argument of yours.