Trading Peters would not...

[Yasgur's Farm]

...make the O-line worse than '08. Even if Chambers starts at LT, he would not be a drop-off from the '08 Peters.

Anyway... We'd probably end up taking one of the 4 talented OT's available with our 11th pick.

[DieHrdBillsFan23]

Only if you were to get 1 or 2 first in return would it make sense. Philly could be willing to deal. We could use the #11 on Oher, or maybe Smith (hopefully he isnt a head case). The only problem is you lose out on Everette Brown or BJ Raji, assuming there still there, so our poor pass rush wont be improved. Its going to be interesting these next few weeks till draft day.

[Throne Logic]

I've been on Peter's case since last spring. Between breech of contract and crappy play through most of last season resulting from the holdout, I really have a bone to pick with him.

That said. Our Oline will be MUCH better this year WITH Peters. That is assuming that he comes to camp and participates in the pre-season. By simple comparison, Peters-Version 2009 would be an improvement over Peters-Version 2008. Funny how showing up for training camp, practices, team meetings, and a warm-up game or two really does effect your level of play.

If we're truly looking at another all Summer holdout, then I agree completely with your statement.

[DrGraves]

Yeah but if we have to take a LT at #11.... we would still have enormous holes at LG, TE, LB, and DE. We can't accord to make new holes at this point.

[Night Train]

Sometimes there is a point of no return and you're forced to make a move you didn't want to make. A 2nd year of holding out & coming in late to play lousy football is unacceptable.

I'm thinking the Bills may be reaching that point with Peters but the market for him must be researched. Will someone actually give the Bills a 1st Round pick (or high 2nd) for him, when 3-4 OT's are currently carrying 1st Round grades in April ? It's not etched in stone, just because posters decree it.

My prediction is that the Bills will have to move him and make do with Chambers for now while a high pick develops or beats him out in camp. Another high pick will be Guard, so this line will be in a flux for a while. That's better than being consistently bad.

That makes the aquisition of Owens look smarter by the minute, with his ability to get off the line and catch the quick slant (in addition to his red zone ability).

Last season, the Bills got lousy play from both Centers, Dockery and Peters for most of the year. The line really has no where else to go but up. Butler is fair & hopefully improving. Walker is better than many think and did good filling in at LT. I've been very pleased with his play and willingness to switch positions. We got a Center last month.

We need a Guard early, in addition to Peters replacement.

Let it play out before jumping off the bridge.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Yeah but if we have to take a LT at #11.... we would still have enormous holes at LG, TE, LB, and DE. We can't accord to make new holes at this point. And we'll have more picks to address those needs than we do today...

1A - Michael Oher or Andre Smith (We probably won't see Raji, Brown, or Orakpo anyway)
1B - Brian Cushing, Tyson Jackson, Brandon Pettigrew, Conner Barwin, Alex Mack, or Aaron Maybin
And we'll still have our #2 thru 7 plus another 3rd or 4th for Peters.

[Yasgur's Farm]

2 - Larry English, Robert Ayers, Max Unger, Jared Cook, Eric Wood, Clint Simtim, or Duke Robinson

[casdhf]

I am all for trading Peters if we can get value, but saying that we won't notice a difference between Chambers and Peters is ridiculous.

[X-Era]

...make the O-line worse than '08. Even if Chambers starts at LT, he would not be a drop-off from the '08 Peters.

Anyway... We'd probably end up taking one of the 4 talented OT's available with our 11th pick.

You cannot guarantee that. And with no starting LG, and some rookie at LT its more likely that the OL will in fact be worse.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Do you think Chambers would give up 12 sacks

[X-Era]

Yeah but if we have to take a LT at #11.... we would still have enormous holes at LG, TE, LB, and DE. We can't accord to make new holes at this point.

I know, thats the silly part.

Trade Peters we get a pick, and then we have a new hole as well to fill with a pick... thats a push and we got worse on paper by losing Peters.

[X-Era]

Do you think Chambers would give up 12 sacks

With no solid LT, a brand new C, and no Dockery? very possible.

[X-Era]

And we'll have more picks to address those needs than we do today...

1A - Michael Oher or Andre Smith (We probably won't see Raji, Brown, or Orakpo anyway)
1B - Brian Cushing, Tyson Jackson, Brandon Pettigrew, Conner Barwin, Alex Mack, or Aaron Maybin
And we'll still have our #2 thru 7 plus another 3rd or 4th for Peters.

No idea whether that LT we took at 11 will be worth anything ever, much less starting in his rookie year.

[DraftBoy]

Trading Peters would not...be a smart idea.

[Buddo]

Trading Peters would not...be a smart idea.

But it may be the only sensible option left, if Peters keeps up the 'stupid money' demands.
If Peters thinks he can hold the team to ransom, I hope the team gives him the finger big style.
By that I mean that if he doesn't sign a deal by draft day, he either gets traded for an acceptable pick value (1st +), or he is made see out his contract (on the pine).
The Bills have made him a decent offer, and they may improve that some, we don't know, but if there is no real attempt from the Peters camp, to actually engage with sensible negotiations, then it's time to go to the plan that takes no account of him.

The OP is certainly correct that the O-Line without Peters, isn't necessarily worse than it was last year. Including games he missed, Peters probably only played ok in about 9 from 16 games, and even within some of those, he was still making fairly critical mistakes. People go on about things like, it was only 1 oe 2 plays in a game, which is sort of a fair point, but the difference being, is that those were plays that actually mattered, within the games played. The true top guys, don't make mistakes when things matter.

[SABURZFAN]

Trading Peters would not...be a smart idea.


no but if things escalate worse than last year, they may want to get rid of him.

[Nighthawk]

Do you think Chambers would give up 12 sacks

Do you know that he won't???

See how this can go?

[X-Era]

Do you know that he won't???

See how this can go?

Exactly, its an unbackable statement.

There is no way we are better than last year with a backup C starting, no LG at this point, and trading away our LT for a rookie.

NO WAY.

Its just that easy.

You might as well just burn that 6.5 mill we spent on Terrell because he wont get the ball with all that pressure.

[Throne Logic]

I can see it now. Peter's is going to get traded for a single 2nd or 3rd round pick.

The Buffalo Bills' team building pattern: 2 steps forward, 3 steps backward (rinse and repeat).

[Yasgur's Farm]

Do you know that he won't???

See how this can go?Of course I don't... But I look at it this way... If he does lead the NFL in sacks allowed, at least he won't be getting paid $12M.

[Buddo]

Of course I don't... But I look at it this way... If he does lead the NFL in sacks allowed, at least he won't be getting paid $12M.


LOL!

[Mahdi]

Do you think Chambers would give up 12 sacks
Chambers would give up a heck of a lot more than that if he played LT full time. Joey Porter would have 3 sacks a game, Adalius Thomas would eat Chambers alive and Rex Ryan's defense will be laughing their a55e5 off if Chambers is going to be between them and Edwards.

You must be just trying to stir something up, because there is no way you actually believe Chambers would be equal to or better than Peters, or anywhere even close for that matter.

The fact that were even having this conversation on a Buffalo Bills fan site is ridiculous and other fans reading this stuff would think we are foolish and lacking in football knowledge if they read this nonsense.


At this point I ALMOST want Peters to miss the first couple of games for any reason and hopefully against the Pats and another team with an elite rusher just so everyone can see the value of having a OT like Peters. Sometimes I think Bills fans love controversy and drama more than winning.

[TacklingDummy]

Chambers would give up a heck of a lot more than that if he played LT full time. Joey Porter would have 3 sacks a game, Adalius Thomas would eat Chambers alive and Rex Ryan's defense will be laughing their a55e5 off if Chambers is going to be between them and Edwards.

You must be just trying to stir something up, because there is no way you actually believe Chambers would be equal to or better than Peters, or anywhere even close for that matter.
Chambers would be playing RT and Walker would be replacing Peters at LT. When Walker played LT last year he played better than Peters did.

Matter of fact Walker was the Bills best O-linemen last year. Shouldn't he be holding out for a new contract? He only has 3 years left on his deal.

[Mahdi]

Chambers would be playing RT and Walker would be replacing Peters at LT. When Walker played LT last year he played better than Peters did.

Matter of fact Walker was the Bills best O-linemen last year. Shouldn't he be holding out for a new contract? He only has 3 years left on his deal.
Walker replaced Peters for one game against Seattle. Thats it. Seattle had a very weak pass rush.

If Walker had to face the rush that Peters did all year he would have struggled.

Peters was DOMINANT in 2007. He had an off year in 08, big deal, everyone has off years. Walter Jones allowed 10.5 sacks in 06.

We all know what Peters is capable of and I want him on this Line in 09 because he makes our line Elite. Without him were just average. I dont care how much he gets paid or wants to get paid. Let the FO deal with that. I want him here.

[Throne Logic]

We all know what Peters is capable of and I want him on this Line in 09 because he makes our line Elite. Without him were just average. I dont care how much he gets paid or wants to get paid. Let the FO deal with that. I want him here.

Um, I find it difficult to call this OL elite. Let's assume Peters signs next week and shows up for all team events this Spring and Summer. We'll also assume that Walker continues his solid play on the far right, which is probably a safe bet. Butler has shown some consistency and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he'll take that next step this year to become the all-around solid RG we need.

Now, we still have a question mark at Center and an empty slot at LG. I'm not sold on Hargartner, who hasn't ever shown he's capable of playing Center at the NFL level. Peters might have to anchor the entire left side all by himself. Of course with that logic, I suppose we should pay Peters a salary equal to the sum of both a starting LT and starting LG . . .

[HHURRICANE]

I'm glad we have the luxury of taking an OT with our first pick because we have so other few holes on the team!

You might want to pull the film of Walker playing LT in Oakland.

[nateodoms'bff]

Maybe the Bills realize that you can get better through subtraction.

By trading Peter's they can draft two young stud O-lineman, and have solid depth.

That leaves the 2nd Round for a quality LB, or maybe even a package to move back into the 1st to draft the best available at that point.

I don't think this is quite as bad as everyone seems to think. It could benefit the Bills long term to trade Peter's now, while his value is high.

[nateodoms'bff]

Um, I find it difficult to call this OL elite. Let's assume Peters signs next week and shows up for all team events this Spring and Summer. We'll also assume that Walker continues his solid play on the far right, which is probably a safe bet. Butler has shown some consistency and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he'll take that next step this year to become the all-around solid RG we need.

Now, we still have a question mark at Center and an empty slot at LG. I'm not sold on Hargartner, who hasn't ever shown he's capable of playing Center at the NFL level. Peters might have to anchor the entire left side all by himself. Of course with that logic, I suppose we should pay Peters a salary equal to the sum of both a starting LT and starting LG . . .

Except for last season when he proved it all season long, blocking for two 1200+ yard backs, one of which was a rookie who scored 10 TD's.

Right, I forgot, he's still another "high motor/high character guy".

Gimme a break, he is 100% better than any center the Bills have had in the past 10 playoff-less seasons. He is an instant improvement over Preston, and is much better than Fowler. Kirk Chambers proved last season that when asked to step up, he can, and can play at the pro-level. So if the season started today, and Chambers was starting at LG, I'd feel pretty good about the Bills chances of running the ball well, and passing the ball well.

[feldspar]

Peters was DOMINANT in 2007. He had an off year in 08, big deal, everyone has off years. Walter Jones allowed 10.5 sacks in 06.


He had an off year?

Well when you've only played the position for a two-and-a-half years your entire life, having an "off year" tends to take on more significance.

A year and a half of "on years" followed by an "off year" does not equal the right to demand to be payed more than anybody in the history of the NFL at the position.

I want to keep him too, but the Bills ARE NOT going to give him more money than anyone at the position. They won't...and I think they shouldn't.

Ability on the field ain't the entire story either. I always wondered why the Bills got rid of Travis Henry. I don't wonder why anymore.

[X-Era]

He had an off year?

Well when you've only played the position for a two-and-a-half years your entire life, having an "off year" tends to take on more significance.

A year and a half of "on years" followed by an "off year" does not equal the right to demand to be payed more than anybody in the history of the NFL at the position.

I want to keep him too, but the Bills ARE NOT going to give him more money than anyone at the position. They won't...and I think they shouldn't.

Ability on the field ain't the entire story either. I always wondered why the Bills got rid of Travis Henry. I don't wonder why anymore.

1) Its a unsubtantiated rumor that he wants to be the highest paid LT, thats not a fact, its a rumor.

2) There is no evidence that Peters will become Travis Henry. Thats more pure BS at this point.

Lets keep the facts straight.

[justasportsfan]

...make the O-line worse than '08. . what happened when we got rid of Pat Williams in favor of Edwards?


...
Even if Chambers starts at LT, he would not be a drop-off from the '08 Peters..
Maybe , maybe not. If this were true then teams would've been scrambling for his services when he was on the market. The bills themselves didn't re-sign him to a starter contract at any position.

[EDS]

...make the O-line worse than '08. Even if Chambers starts at LT, he would not be a drop-off from the '08 Peters.

Anyway... We'd probably end up taking one of the 4 talented OT's available with our 11th pick.

Are you saying you were happy with the line in '08?

I don't think having Chambers as a full time starter is in the teams best interest and I think they need to address the void at left guard as well.

[Canadian'eh!]

Trading peters propbably WOULDN'T make the OL any worse...

But it also might not make it any BETTER.

I'm not against dealing him considering his attitude and demands. But I also am not foolish enogh to think he can't be a much better OT than he showed us last year.

he COULD be dominant. But is he worth keeping considering his dmands and last season?

I don't know.

But I know drafting a high OT and trading him is also very risky. As would be a Walker-CHambers set of OT's.

In fact if that's the solution I think we better hang onto him.

[TacklingDummy]

At this point I ALMOST want Peters to miss the first couple of games for any reason and hopefully against the Pats and another team with an elite rusher just so everyone can see the value of having a OT like Peters.
We seen it last year against the Pats week 17, where Jackson ran for 136 yards and the 0-line gave up 2 sacks to Jarvis Green.

Or how about against Seattle where the the Bills only gave up 1 sack? Seattle was ranked 10th in sacks.

Or how about how the Cardinals went to the Super Bowl with Mike Gandy?

Maybe some people are valuing Peters a little too much.

[TacklingDummy]

Walker replaced Peters for one game against Seattle. Thats it. Seattle had a very weak pass rush.

Ranked 10th in sacks is weak? I hope Buffalo has a "weak" pass rush this year.

[justasportsfan]

Ranked 10th in sacks is weak? I hope Buffalo has a "weak" pass rush this year.
they weren't ranked 10th in the 1st game of the season. We played them at the right time. Trent looked like a duck at the start of the game. It wasn't that the seashawks D was doing anything special.

[TacklingDummy]

they weren't ranked 10th in the 1st game of the season. We played them at the right time.
:lmao: @ "played at the right time".

They stunk all year.

[Mahdi]

We seen it last year against the Pats week 17, where Jackson ran for 136 yards and the 0-line gave up 2 sacks to Jarvis Green.

Or how about against Seattle where the the Bills only gave up 1 sack? Seattle was ranked 10th in sacks.

Or how about how the Cardinals went to the Super Bowl with Mike Gandy?

Maybe some people are valuing Peters a little too much.
Yeah and what happened to Gandy in the SuperBowl... He got his handed to him by James Harrison all game long.

[Mahdi]

Ranked 10th in sacks is weak? I hope Buffalo has a "weak" pass rush this year.
They dont have an elite rusher. Darryl Tapp was not a difficult assignment for Walker. And although Kerney is a good player he is no Joey Porter.

If we have Walker and Chambers as our starting OTs next year. The rushers in our division will destroy them.

Walker at LT means he is facing Porter, Adalius and Calvin Pace. That is not Walker's game.

[TacklingDummy]

Yeah and what happened to Gandy in the SuperBowl... He got his handed to him by James Harrison all game long. You must have watched a different game. The game I watched saw Gandy go one on one most of the game against the DPY and overall did an excellent job.

[TacklingDummy]

If we have Walker and Chambers as our starting OTs next year. The rushers in our division will destroy them.


Destroyed them like in the last Patriot game last year, I got ya.

[Kenny]

Are you saying you were happy with the line in '08?

I don't think having Chambers as a full time starter is in the teams best interest and I think they need to address the void at left guard as well.

Agreed... we all know that Peters played extremely poorly last season.
But we know what he's capable of. The guy dominated in 2007. And it wasnt like it was just 1 or 2 games. He dominated the season.

Last year was simply the effect of a disgruntled player that was further affected by lack of training and lack of practice.

While like everyone here, I dont think he's worth the $11MM he's asking for, -but to say that this team will be fine by putting in Chambers or Walker @ LT is just more of 'rose colored glasses affect'.

[TacklingDummy]

Yeah and what happened to Gandy in the SuperBowl... He got his handed to him by James Harrison all game long. Not just I who though Mike Gandy did a fine job in the Super Bowl but many others on here.


Typical Bills. He played great today.

Maybe Mouse McNally was just a crappy coach.


I always liked Gandy felt Losman was his problem, not his talent.

I used to ask his critics to watch him and then post what they didnt like. Needless to say they never posted because Losman was the cause of almost every sack given up.


Damn, I was going to make this same thread myself.


thank god we have a top 5 LT now.. :rolleyes:


So a former Bill found success somewhere else? Hm, shocking.


http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=168340&highlight=mike+gandy


idk, Harrison is the defensive POY and is a tough assignment. He didnt look great, thats for sure, but not that bad really.


Wasn't he working against the strongest part of the leagues best defense? I think Peters woulda gave up 2+ sacks.


The Bills ran better with Gandy at left tackle then they have since.



Gandy was going against the top defensive player all game. Any idea on why they almost never helped him out?

[Mahdi]

Destroyed them like in the last Patriot game last year, I got ya.
Yeah lucky for them Adalius Thomas wasn't playing in the final pats game last year. Got me?

[TacklingDummy]

What was the Bills record the last 2 years with Jason Peters starting?

The Bills can lose just as well without Peters.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this subject.

[justasportsfan]

:lmao: @ "played at the right time".

They stunk all year.
well there you go. No onder why our OL did well against them ,they stunk. ;)

[justasportsfan]

What was the Bills record the last 2 years with Jason Peters starting?

The Bills can lose just as well without Peters.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this subject.
Oh so now it's the LT's fault. I thought you blamed wins and losses on the qb.

[justasportsfan]

Not just I who though Mike Gandy did a fine job in the Super Bowl but many others on here.



Cards didn't need a top LT. They have good coaches , good qb and awsome weapons. Other than weapons (now) we still don't have proven coaches and qb therefore we need a top LT.