wow-- Per Mayock's TV Mock

[patmoran2006]

Watched his mock (top 10 picks) today on NFL Network (not sure if it was a rerun from earlier in the week) but regardless;

Per his mock, Michael Crabtree, Brian Orakpo AND Aaron Maybin would still be on the board at #11 when the Bills are on the clock.

I"m pretty sure his top 10 went like this:
1- Detroit/Stafford
2- Rams/J Smith
3- KC/ Monroe
4- Seattle/Curry
5- Cleveland/Raji
6- Cinci/A Smith
7- Oakland/ Bey (WR)- WOW!
8- Jags/Maclin
9- GB/Oher
10- SF/ Sanchez

I would be utterly shocked at that. I cant see Orakpo or Crabtree falling out of Top 10.. I'd think insert Crabtree at 7 and Orakpo at 9 (at worse)

But he did make a good point, especially for teams with 3-4 defenses; after Oher there is a big drop off at OT, and there are lot of good 3-4 pass rush LB's in the second round (like English)

Still fascinating.. Play along with Mayock.. If he was 100% right, who you taking at #11

[patmoran2006]

I reallyyyyyyyyyyy dont know here.

I am thinking Maybin.. The combo of Orakpo being a Longhorn, and the Gholston disaster (first year anyway) of last year is still fresh in my mind.

I stand by my earlier projection of Michael Oher as the pick (with the thinking Peters is traded before our pick)-- but if Mayock was gone, I'd probably go with Maybin at 11, or maybe Everette Brown?

[Michael82]

Trade DOWN!

[Dr. Lecter]

Trade DOWN!

With who?

It is not always as easy as people think it is.

[Dr. Lecter]

I reallyyyyyyyyyyy dont know here.

I am thinking Maybin.. The combo of Orakpo being a Longhorn, and the Gholston disaster (first year anyway) of last year is still fresh in my mind.

I stand by my earlier projection of Michael Oher as the pick (with the thinking Peters is traded before our pick)-- but if Mayock was gone, I'd probably go with Maybin at 11, or maybe Everette Brown?

Maybin is down my list. I see him closer to Gholston than Orakpo is.

Crabtree or Orakpo - flip a coin.

[Michael82]

With who?

It is not always as easy as people think it is.
Oh come on...if all those players were available, especially Crabtree....we could easily trade down.

[Jaybird]

Draft Crabtree.... we have owens for one year! crabtree will be a star in this league. He is a physical wr that is not available every year. He has consistently put up great numbers..... and he ha trained with the great jerry rice (just like last season rookie star desean jackson)

[yordad]

It is tough, but I'd pick Orakpo. Passing on this beast just because Gholston had a disappointing rookie year is just illogical.

[Mahdi]

I reallyyyyyyyyyyy dont know here.

I am thinking Maybin.. The combo of Orakpo being a Longhorn, and the Gholston disaster (first year anyway) of last year is still fresh in my mind.

I stand by my earlier projection of Michael Oher as the pick (with the thinking Peters is traded before our pick)-- but if Mayock was gone, I'd probably go with Maybin at 11, or maybe Everette Brown?
I think Everette Brown is the best football player out of Maybin and Orakpo. Brown has the most natural talent IMO out of the 3 and more pass rush moves.

I would take Brown in a second if that is how the draft fell.

[Mr. Pink]

Simple...

Draft Crabtree.

Anytime you have a chance to add a playmaker/difference maker you do it.

You're not building with the mindset of making yourself better for one year, you're making the team better for the future.

No brainer.

[Dr. Lecter]

Oh come on...if all those players were available, especially Crabtree....we could easily trade down.
Crabtree would be attractive, I agree. But how far are you willing to move down?

If they move down and lose out on Crabtree, Orakpo and Brown is it worth it?

[Buddo]

As I'm not too convinced about any of the DEs available, I think you would have to go with Crabtree.
A playmaker for the future, alongside Evans, who should be able to pick up where TO leaves off.
For all I like Hardy's potential, we have yet to see much of substance from him, and it could be another year before we do.
You also have to bear in mind that Reed will be due an extension in the not too distant, and as much as I like him, he has injury concerns.
A future WR corps of Evans, Crabtree, Hardy and Johnson, looks none too shabby to me.

[methos4ever]

I think at the end of the day - if we traded down, picked up Crabtree, etc - any defensive end we get this year will not be a world beater this year. So if we're investing in the future, whatever we get at one (except maybe Jenkins) should help.

[Mitchell55]

Oh come on...if all those players were available, especially Crabtree....we could easily trade down.



Trade down? Dude, you are crazy. You have 3 top 7 players fall down to 11 and you dont want them. Im glad your not the GM.


Orakpo

[casdhf]

Dick is in a make or break year. He will not draft a project.

[Tatonka]

i would be totally ok with drafting crabtree or moving down a few spots and trying to still get orakpo or brown..

i do like brown the best.

[Crisis]

crabtree easily

[Mahdi]

Simple...

Draft Crabtree.

Anytime you have a chance to add a playmaker/difference maker you do it.

You're not building with the mindset of making yourself better for one year, you're making the team better for the future.

No brainer.
I could go with that too....

Value is very high with Crabtree at 11. Owens is only 1 year anyways. Evans and Crabs can be lethal for 5 years. Perfect compliments to each other.

[Mitchell55]

Wow I just thought of having Owens and Crabtree with Evans in the slot. Holy ****.

[Mitchell55]

If we do get Crabtree than dont take a TE. Let Fine do the job.

[Novacane]

If I got a great offer I'd trade down. If not I'd take Crabtree.

[Devin]

Mayock is pretty dialed in.

Orakpo.

[Mitchell55]

I still dont know why people want to trade down. We have the 3 players everyone wants on the boards to drop to us and then they want to trade down. I wouldve lost faith as a bills fan if that happened.

[Buddo]

I still dont know why people want to trade down. We have the 3 players everyone wants on the boards to drop to us and then they want to trade down. I wouldve lost faith as a bills fan if that happened.

Because the 'three players everyone wants on the boards' do not necessarily represent what the Bills want. Crabtree can easily be considered a 'luxury' pick. Orakpo and Brown, could well not be a 'fit' for the Bills D. If they aren't that interested in either of them, then trading down to get more picks, and maybe to still draft say Brown, is actually a seriously viable option.

[patmoran2006]

It is tough, but I'd pick Orakpo. Passing on this beast just because Gholston had a disappointing rookie year is just illogical.
I tend to worry more because it seems Texas has a pretty bad history of first round failures in the NFL.

[Saratoga Slim]

I reallyyyyyyyyyyy dont know here.

I am thinking Maybin.. The combo of Orakpo being a Longhorn, and the Gholston disaster (first year anyway) of last year is still fresh in my mind.

I stand by my earlier projection of Michael Oher as the pick (with the thinking Peters is traded before our pick)-- but if Mayock was gone, I'd probably go with Maybin at 11, or maybe Everette Brown?

Something is bugging me about Orakpo too. If he ends up at 11 and we grab him I'll be excited, but I think there's something in the Gholston comparison. No doubt he's a physical speciman, but I have some "workout wonder" concerns

[acehole]

Something is bugging me about Orakpo too. If he ends up at 11 and we grab him I'll be excited, but I think there's something in the Gholston comparison. No doubt he's a physical speciman, but I have some "workout wonder" concerns

Bunkley comes to mind as well. The Bills tend to like production over flash...however we could trade down 3 spots and still get our guy...

[bflobarry]

Dick is in a make or break year. He will not draft a project.
Dick doesn't make the call. After input from Modrak, Guy, DJ, Brandon and the scouts, Ralph makes the final call. I recall multiple stories about this over the years, one in particular when Donahoe wanted Bledsoe, he had to sell it to Ralph. FWIW...

[Bmax]

Simple...

Draft Crabtree.

Anytime you have a chance to add a playmaker/difference maker you do it.

You're not building with the mindset of making yourself better for one year, you're making the team better for the future.

No brainer.

Yeah this kind of thinking has put us where we are today....Worst pass rushing team in the NFL....

Orakpo or Brown..would be where i would go....Crabtree has some issues with injury and maybe off the field ? Plus drafting skill players in rd 1 year after year won't get you in the playoffs or in the Super Bowl.



Bmax

[DraftBoy]

The pick is between Crabtree and Orakpo. Brown should not even be in the discussion. Orakpo has great athleticism and while he may be a slight step slower he is not undersized, is stronger, and has a full compliment of pass rush moves which include speed rush, bull rush, spin move, rip move, and the swim move.

That all being said I take Crabtree. #2 ranked player on my big board, you can't beat that kind of value right now. He gets to learn for a year from arguably the best in the business. Crabtree has rare talent and combined with Evans speed he is very dangerous.

[Akhippo]

I would think that if Crabtree is there for us, we would have to use him as trade bait. Whats better than using a player that isnt yours as leverage to gain more picks. He is a good talent but will not do anything to move this team forward. Sure we would have two players that are talented; so did Arizona. They didnt do anything with them until the rest of the team caught up.

It seems that alot of people are like fish. They talk about the real needs until something flashes in front of them. Oooh Shiny, must have.

There are alot of teams later on that are looking WR. I would give Philly first crack for their 21st and 28th. OLB and DE

2nd-Guard
3rd-TE

Then the rest of the draft could fill depth positions.

[DraftBoy]

I would think that if Crabtree is there for us, we would have to use him as trade bait. Whats better than using a player that isnt yours as leverage to gain more picks. He is a good talent but will not do anything to move this team forward. Sure we would have two players that are talented; so did Arizona. They didnt do anything with them until the rest of the team caught up.

It seems that alot of people are like fish. They talk about the real needs until something flashes in front of them. Oooh Shiny, must have.

There are alot of teams later on that are looking WR. I would give Philly first crack for their 21st and 28th. OLB and DE

2nd-Guard
3rd-TE

Then the rest of the draft could fill depth positions.

Why would Philly deal up to 11 for Crabtree?? They have big money invested in Curtis, they already drafted DeSean Jackson last year and they like the ability of Reggie Brown who has 1000 yd potential is he stays healthy.

I love this idea that dealing down is so easy but guys you are not thinking this through. Here are the teams picking after Buffalo who could use a WR at this point.

New Orleans-14
New York Jets-17
Tampa-19
Minny-22
Baltimore-26
Indy-27
Giants-29
Tennessee-30

The 11th pick is worth 1250 points so now using that, each team listed above would have to give up;
NO-1st, 4th, 5th
NYJ-1st, 3rd, 5th and 6th
TB-1st and 2nd
MIN-1st, 2nd and 3rd
BAL-1st, 2nd and 3rd
IND-1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th
NYG-All Draft Picks Do Not Equal 1250
TEN-All Draft Picks Do Not Equal 1250

So I only see NO, NYJ, and TB as possible partners who would want Crabtree at this point given cost. You can immediately eliminate NYJ because we aren't going to give them Crabtree. You trade down 3 spots you have New Orleans take Crabtree, then Denver and Washington either of whom would likely take Orakpo to either play DE (washington) or OLB (Denver) and probably Everette Brown to the other team.

So now you sit at 14 the top DE's are all gone, the top OT's are all gone, the top DT is gone, the QBs are gone, so what are we supposed to do? I dont mind taking Jenkins so I think a deal down with NO is a good idea if we can pull it off because it gets us a guy I think we can use and we pick up picks along the way. However many posters would be pissed with that move. If you deal down below two teams both who need OLB and DE help you risk losing Crabs, Brown, and Orakpo. If you deal down to 19;
Tampa-Crabs
Denver-Brown
Washington-Orakpo
NO-Jenkins
Houston-Vontae Davis
San Diego-Moreno
New York Jets-Wells
Denver-Aaron Maybin
Buffalo-

So now who do we take?? I dont think a trade down below Denver and Washington makes any sense for us given their needs.

[Dr. Lecter]

Just as a quick note, Tampa does not have a 2nd round pick this year.

[DraftBoy]

Just as a quick note, Tampa does not have a 2nd round pick this year.
So remove Tampa as likely then because it would be a 3rd, 4th, and 5th to move up and I dont think they do that. So basically New Orleans is your only realistic trade partner for Crabs.

[HHURRICANE]

If Peters gets traded I promise the guy will be the best LT in the league.

The Bills have proven with Winfield and Williams that they can't hang onto talent even when it's sitting there in front of them.

Instead we'll overpay a guy like Schobel who loses 20 pounds inexplicably and than blows off all of the workouts.

[Akhippo]

WR isnt our biggest need at all yet people want to draft Crabtree if there, why would Philly sit tight with Curtis and Brown? Really, Curtis and Brown. Alot of mocks have them taking Moreno and a tackle. Why wouldnt they consider it.

What are philly's two firsts worth. I think they are worth just over the 11th pick. They get a playmaker to go with Jackson, which they need desperately.

We can go with maybe Cushing/Mathews then maybe M Johson. This isnt really far fetched with the given information. Im just playing the game; if Crabtree was there at 11 what could happen.

[DraftBoy]

WR isnt our biggest need at all yet people want to draft Crabtree if there, why would Philly sit tight with Curtis and Brown? Really, Curtis and Brown. Alot of mocks have them taking Moreno and a tackle. Why wouldnt they consider it.

What are philly's two firsts worth. I think they are worth just over the 11th pick. They get a playmaker to go with Jackson, which they need desperately.

We can go with maybe Cushing/Mathews then maybe M Johson. This isnt really far fetched with the given information. Im just playing the game; if Crabtree was there at 11 what could happen.

21 and 28 are worth over 1400 together, we'd have to add on.

Philly will sit with Curtis, Brown and Jackson because they have their deep threat in Jackson, their middle range guy in Curtis and their slot player in Brown. Where does Crabtree fit in?? You don't take a 4th WR in the 1st Round, and they have a guy at 4 they like Jason Avant right now. I dont see how they want Crabtree considering how much they paid Curtis on a long term deal and how much they like Brown.

[Mahdi]

21 and 28 are worth over 1400 together, we'd have to add on.

Philly will sit with Curtis, Brown and Jackson because they have their deep threat in Jackson, their middle range guy in Curtis and their slot player in Brown. Where does Crabtree fit in?? You don't take a 4th WR in the 1st Round, and they have a guy at 4 they like Jason Avant right now. I dont see how they want Crabtree considering how much they paid Curtis on a long term deal and how much they like Brown.
While Jackson, Curtis and Brown are solid WRs its more so because McNabb has the ability to make them a bit better than they are. When TO and McNabb were together they had that same effect on each other. T.O. improved McNabb's game too. That is what Crabtree could do for Philly, and that is what McNabb has been asking for. A dominant WR that demands double coverage and frees up the rest of the WRs and Westbrook.

Crabtree would start right away for Philly with Desean on the other side and either Brown or Curtis in the slot.

[DraftBoy]

While Jackson, Curtis and Brown are solid WRs its more so because McNabb has the ability to make them a bit better than they are. When TO and McNabb were together they had that same effect on each other. T.O. improved McNabb's game too. That is what Crabtree could do for Philly, and that is what McNabb has been asking for. A dominant WR that demands double coverage and frees up the rest of the WRs and Westbrook.

Crabtree would start right away for Philly with Desean on the other side and either Brown or Curtis in the slot.

I think saying Crabtree would have the same effect as TO in philly is ridiculous considering most rookie WR's are not even close to good their first year and he is not really even close to the same type of player TO is. TO has speed and is a deep ball WR who exploits defensive coverage mistakes, Crabtree is not, he is more of a good route runner, YAC WR. I don't see the comparison in the two styles of play. Philly has plenty of other holes to fill that with three good WR's for the forseeable future they don't really need Crabtree when they only have one or two holes to fill and they are a legit SB contender.

[Mahdi]

I think saying Crabtree would have the same effect as TO in philly is ridiculous considering most rookie WR's are not even close to good their first year and he is not really even close to the same type of player TO is. TO has speed and is a deep ball WR who exploits defensive coverage mistakes, Crabtree is not, he is more of a good route runner, YAC WR. I don't see the comparison in the two styles of play. Philly has plenty of other holes to fill that with three good WR's for the forseeable future they don't really need Crabtree when they only have one or two holes to fill and they are a legit SB contender.
I never said they were the same style player. I know the difference between Crabtree and TO. My point was that Crabtree could have a similar effect. Crabtree is essentially a cross between Boldin and Evans. Not quite as big as Boldin, not as fast as Evans but combines qualities from both. That being said the idea is to get McNabb a dominant type of WR to draw coverage and open up the offense. Calvin Johnson may not have had a ton of production his first year but he kept coverage rolling towards him at all times. That is the effect Crabtree can have. Every team has multiple holes to fill, it all depends on where the value is in relation to the holes you have. Philly has a WR, TE and OT need. Its quite possible they rate Crabtree ahead of Andre Smith or Miachel Oher. In that case, Crabtree would be the pick.

[Canadian'eh!]

Crabtree.

with 0 doubt...

he's a playmaker all the way and TO gives us 1 year to groom him. plus a wicked 4 WR set this year.

then trade Parrish for a 3rd or 4th, let Fred or Leodis return the punts.

[B-DON]

I cant see New Orleans trading up for a wr when they have moore and colston plus shockey at wr. they would have to give up half their draft for a position they don't "really" need. plus bush catches a lot of passes too. New Orleans should draft all defense

[Canadian'eh!]

TO is a one year and done player in Buffalo. If he plays well he will be looking for one more big payday somehwere. And I'm betting that somewhere isn't here.

Hardy didn't exactly look impressive lastyear. And now with a major knee issue I don't think you can count on him being ready to be the #2 WR next year.

Crabtree is a gamebreaker. I personally see NO WAY that he'll be there at 11. But if he were we'd be crazy NOT to take him.

I like Everett Brown a lot, and Orakpo not so much, but there's no way I pass up Crabtree just because TO is here for 1 year. Next year we will be worried abotu WR again, and kicking ourselves for passing up this guy if we did.

Crabtree.... all the way.

[justasportsfan]

Crabtree,Lee and Hardy will sell tickets .

[kid mickey]

Mayock is just throwing darts in the dark right now. I don't think that is his final mock. He is usually spot on and that just does not seem like the way the draft will go. I honestly think you gotta wait until one or two days before the draft and then he will know exactly where everybody is going. I am going to base my mock after his final one.

[Mski]

if it falls this way there is NO POSSIBLE WAY we should pass on crabtree, none.... sometimes as a team if a talent like that is sitting there you have to take your board and throw it out the window and take BPA... none of the other guys will make as big of an impact on this team like crabtree will in the near future... and as others have said the idea of him and evans for the next few years with johnson and hardy will sell tickets.. and that is all this FO seems to care about lately

[Bert102176]

I really like crabtree, but I also really like Everette Brown