If the Bills trade Peters, it means we're still rebuilding

[OpIv37]

The best we're going to get is draft picks. We've already cut/failed to resign 4 offensive linemen from last year and only signed one. Trading away a proven, Pro Bowl player for completely unproven draft picks is a sure sign of rebuilding.

This team isn't even close.

[realdealryan]

The Steelers let all of their proven linemen go. They won the Super Bowl. This is a copycat league. lol

[BillsWin]

We wont win untill Jauron is gone anyways.

[Goobylal]

Good post. I was going to ask Op to name the starting LT's for the Steelers and Cards, if not the Eagles and Ravens.

[SeatownBillsFan21]

We would be rebuilding our o line i agree to that at least

[X-Era]

The best we're going to get is draft picks. We've already cut/failed to resign 4 offensive linemen from last year and only signed one. Trading away a proven, Pro Bowl player for completely unproven draft picks is a sure sign of rebuilding.

This team isn't even close.

I agree that we get worse the day we make that trade... and to be honest, I would say we are worse than last year BEFORE this move.

Dockery-cut, no replacement, downgrade
Fowler/Preston- gone, Hangartner signed, push at this point
Losman- gone, Fitz signed, likely push
Crowell- gone, no replacement, downgrade
TO- signed, upgrade
Trade Peters- rookie replacement, almost assuredly a downgrade in year one

That's 3 downgrades, 2 pushes, and one upgrade for next year... We have a TON of work left for the draft and signings if we have any hope of being actually better than last year.

[Goobylal]

I agree that we get worse the day we make that trade... and to be honest, I would say we are worse than last year BEFORE this move.

Dockery-cut, no replacement, downgrade
Fowler/Preston- gone, Hangartner signed, push at this point
Losman- gone, Fitz signed, likely push
Crowell- gone, no replacement, downgrade
TO- signed, upgrade
Trade Peters- rookie replacement, almost assuredly a downgrade in year one

That's 3 downgrades, 2 pushes, and one upgrade for next year... We have a TON of work left for the draft and signings if we have any hope of being actually better than last year.
Dockery, Preston, and Fowler were scrubs. Getting rid of them was addition by subtraction. And while the Bills have no LG as of yet, they could literally find anyone and he could do as well as Dockery did the past 2 years, for 1/4 the price. And Hangartner is a better player than Preston and Fowler.

[Forward_Lateral]

Honestly, do you guys remember how bad Peters was last year? Is losing him really going to make this year's oline worse than last years? A 5th round rookie could've played as well as Jason did last season.

If Philly does something stupid and offers 2 first round picks for Peters, Buffalo would be nuts not to take it.

[Dr. Lecter]

It is taking a possible Peters trade to make you realize that the team is rebuilding?

[X-Era]

Dockery, Preston, and Fowler were scrubs. Getting rid of them was addition by subtraction. And while the Bills have no LG as of yet, they could literally find anyone and he could do as well as Dockery did the past 2 years, for 1/4 the price. And Hangartner is a better player than Preston and Fowler.

1) Addition and subtraction are polar. Until someone comes in and plays better, we are worse... a crappy body is better than no body.

2) If you think that anyone can start at LG for us and play better than Dockery you are sadly mistaken. Maybe you forgot about guys like:

Lawrence Smith
Tutan Reyes
Joe Panos
Bennie Anderson

EESSHHH!!!

[zone]

Honestly our line played it's best games last year without Peters.

The Buffalo Bills made Jason Peters and they can just as quickly give him away.

[Goobylal]

1) Addition and subtraction are polar. Until someone comes in and plays better, we are worse... a crappy body is better than no body.

2) If you think that anyone can start at LG for us and play better than Dockery you are sadly mistaken. Maybe you forgot about guys like:

Lawrence Smith
Tutan Reyes
Joe Panos
Bennie Anderson

EESSHHH!!!
Yes I remember them. They were as good (or more precisely, as bad) as Dockery was, which was my point. The Bills haven't had a good LG since Ruben Brown.

[OpIv37]

Good post. I was going to ask Op to name the starting LT's for the Steelers and Cards, if not the Eagles and Ravens.

You can't go into a season with ZERO proven linemen. Well, 1- I'll give you Walker.

Seriously, what the hell is wrong with this place?

Last year, everyone was talking about how the line would be so much better since it was the same and they had time to "gel."

Now, they completely broke down the line and you guys are trying to say "Well some other team from some other year with some other players did it, so we can do it too." It's nonsense- you can't have it both ways.

BTW- every team you mentioned except the Cards has been consistently good for 10+ years. Translation: their FO's know how to find talent. Ours doesn't.

[OpIv37]

Honestly, do you guys remember how bad Peters was last year? Is losing him really going to make this year's oline worse than last years? A 5th round rookie could've played as well as Jason did last season.

If Philly does something stupid and offers 2 first round picks for Peters, Buffalo would be nuts not to take it.

Go back and watch the games. Peters struggled in his first few games back, no doubt- but other than that, people point to a handful of plays to say Peters sucked, some of which weren't actually his fault and some of which were meaningless. For example, he shut down Porter for two games except for one garbage time sack (the safety was Dockery's fault).

Do you really want Rookie-Question Mark-Hangartner-Butler-Walker protecting Trent? That's insane.

[Mad Bomber]

Seriously, what the hell is wrong with this place?

We're NUMB.

[ddaryl]

3 7-9 seasons pretty much confirms it

[tampabay25690]

Peters had a bad year last year and made the PRO BOWL...
He is not worth $10 mil a year...
TRADE HIM NOW

[Goobylal]

You can't go into a season with ZERO proven linemen. Well, 1- I'll give you Walker.

Seriously, what the hell is wrong with this place?

Last year, everyone was talking about how the line would be so much better since it was the same and they had time to "gel."

Now, they completely broke down the line and you guys are trying to say "Well some other team from some other year with some other players did it, so we can do it too." It's nonsense- you can't have it both ways.

BTW- every team you mentioned except the Cards has been consistently good for 10+ years. Translation: their FO's know how to find talent. Ours doesn't.
What did you expect the Bills to do with the O-line? Butler and Walker are proven. They added a center, who is more proven than Preston or Fowler were. Dockery was cut because he's a stiff. They were looking at guys to play LG in FA. As for Peters, the Bills are trying to sign him to a large long-term contract, but he's making demands to be the highest-paid OL in the NFL, and he hasn't earned that (yet). So something as to give and giving Peters that contract, after what he pulled last year, is dumb.

[OpIv37]

What did you expect the Bills to do with the O-line? Butler and Walker are proven. They added a center, who is more proven than Preston or Fowler were. Dockery was cut because he's a stiff. They were looking at guys to play LG in FA. As for Peters, the Bills are trying to sign him to a large long-term contract, but he's making demands to be the highest-paid OL in the NFL, and he hasn't earned that (yet). So something as to give and giving Peters that contract, after what he pulled last year, is dumb.

Walker I'll give you. Butler is average at best.

Hangartner is NOT more proven than Fowler/Preston- he wasn't even a named starter and only started half a season due to injury. How is that "proven"?

I don't mind cutting Dock but we've replaced him with NO ONE. Literally NO ONE. We don't even have enough bodies to field an OL right now, and we're talking about trading our best OL? That's nuts.

The Bills are trying to low ball him. Peters is being an ass on the contract, no doubt- but middle ground is the solution, not some stupid desperate trade and more rebuilding.

[TacklingDummy]

The Bills are trying to low ball him. Peters is being an ass on the contract, no doubt- but middle ground is the solution, not some stupid desperate trade and more rebuilding.

$8.5 million, double what he made last year is low balling?

[jimbohastle51]

Good post. I was going to ask Op to name the starting LT's for the Steelers and Cards, if not the Eagles and Ravens.

the cards LT is actually the one that was ours before peters, mike gandy who helped kurt warner have a career year and the steelers is max starks now but was marvel smith who was one of the best until he started getting injured often but starks is as good if not better than any of the LT that will be available to us at 11.

[EricStratton]

I hate the idea of giving up on a probowl (deserved or not) LT with a young quarterback.

Jason is only 27 and he's been playing tackle for 5-6 years. To give him up unless it's a great (2 1st round picks or better) deal would hurt us in the long run.

[FlyingDutchman]

Walker I'll give you. Butler is average at best.

Hangartner is NOT more proven than Fowler/Preston- he wasn't even a named starter and only started half a season due to injury. How is that "proven"?

I don't mind cutting Dock but we've replaced him with NO ONE. Literally NO ONE. We don't even have enough bodies to field an OL right now, and we're talking about trading our best OL? That's nuts.

The Bills are trying to low ball him. Peters is being an ass on the contract, no doubt- but middle ground is the solution, not some stupid desperate trade and more rebuilding.

Dude did you watch Fowler and Preston last year? they were TERRIBLE, i mean god awful. I dont care if you do bring in an uproven player, ill bet anything theyre better than those wastes of life. I agree middle ground is the solution for the Peters situation, problem is Peters is the one who doesnt want to help find the middle ground.

[DraftBoy]

Uhhh...Op what are you smoking dude? This trade doesnt mean anything about rebuilding. We all already knew we were still doing that. This team is still at least two years away.

[Romes]

This team is still at least two years away.

For eternity... :(

[justasportsfan]

Good post. I was going to ask Op to name the starting LT's for the Steelers and Cards, if not the Eagles and Ravens.
Maybe we should check out the coaches and the systems they are using and we'll all realize those teams don't need probowlers at LT.

[realdealryan]

Related and made me laugh:

-from the recent PFT mock 3.0:

"2. <nobr style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 100%;" id="itxt_nobr_2_0"></nobr> (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/03/15/2009-mock-draft-20-part-one/)St. Louis Rams: Jason <nobr style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 100%;" id="itxt_nobr_4_0">Smithhttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/mag-glass_10x10.gif</nobr> (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/04/07/2009-mock-draft-30-part-one/#), tackle, Baylor. The offensive line has been terrible, and it got worse with Orlando Pace being released. Good left tackles in their 20s are found only in one place — the top of the draft. Because once they land on a team, that team doesn’t let them go."



Not so fast Florio...

[DrGraves]

This team hasn't had a good line since the Kelly/Superbowl Era. We have been in a state of rebuilding ever since. We probably will continue to be until we have new ownership.

[DrGraves]

peters may be a doucher and a crybaby and have no moral values whatsoever. BUT, if hes going to show up and play and protect trent if we pay him, just do it. I don't care anymore. I am sick and tired of losing.

[SABURZFAN]

the Bills have been rebuilding for the last decade. what's another couple of years?

[Mad Bomber]

I am SO sick of the term "rebuilding". That term suggests that after a while you will have really BUILT something. This organization builds a little, knocks down what is there (i.e. letting talented players leave) and starts again. We have a weak foundation, half-built walls, and no roof. And bad weather is coming...

[ServoBillieves]

I have to disagree on two things. I don't think Peters is Pro Bowl worthy, he lets up too many penalties and lets up sacks. I also think that Butler is better than average. I've watched him closely the past few years and he can hold his own against the blitz and Marshawn likes to run straight behind him.

We need some backups to come in and we need a solid LG. Robinson can immediately come in and contribute, but if we trade Peters, we're f***ed on the left side of the line, unless Kirk can contribute like he did early on last year.

[ServoBillieves]

I have to disagree on two things. I don't think Peters is Pro Bowl worthy, he lets up too many penalties and lets up sacks. I also think that Butler is better than average. I've watched him closely the past few years and he can hold his own against the blitz and Marshawn likes to run straight behind him.

We need some backups to come in and we need a solid LG. Robinson can immediately come in and contribute, but if we trade Peters, we're f***ed on the left side of the line, unless Kirk can contribute like he did early on last year.

[yordad]

The best we're going to get is draft picks. We've already cut/failed to resign 4 offensive linemen from last year and only signed one. Trading away a proven, Pro Bowl player for completely unproven draft picks is a sure sign of rebuilding.

This team isn't even close.I disagree. Letting a disgruntled player show up late, and out of shape.....letting him miss games and disrupt the cohesion of the line...then watching him take the end of the season off with a phantom injury.... then crumbling to his raise DEMANDS would be far worst, IMHO.

[Oaf]

Fowler/Preston- gone, Hangartner signed, push at this point


Okay, come on now. What possible lineman could be considered a push with these two baffoons? Hell, I'd take Mike Pucillo (*shudder*) over Preston.

[OpIv37]

$8.5 million, double what he made last year is low balling?

for his position and what others make at it, yes.

[OpIv37]

Dude did you watch Fowler and Preston last year? they were TERRIBLE, i mean god awful. I dont care if you do bring in an uproven player, ill bet anything theyre better than those wastes of life. I agree middle ground is the solution for the Peters situation, problem is Peters is the one who doesnt want to help find the middle ground.

I agree they were terrible. Well, more accurately, I think Fowler was terrible and Preston was average but did stupid things that pushed him down to terrible. I have no problem whatsoever with cutting the dead weight- I was just hoping to replace them with something better, or at least equal but cheaper so we have more cap room in other areas. So far that hasn't happened.

[Dr. Lecter]

for his position and what others make at it, yes.

Agreed.

But, to be fair, his demands of $12 million are almost equally ridiculous.

[OpIv37]

I disagree. Letting a disgruntled player show up late, and out of shape.....letting him miss games and disrupt the cohesion of the line...then watching him take the end of the season off with a phantom injury.... then crumbling to his raise DEMANDS would be far worst, IMHO.

He's earned the raise. He's far underpaid for his position. And not paying him sends a message to other players that they can't get paid what they're worth in Buffalo.

And what cohesion on the line? We're changing a minimum of two starters and two back ups.

[OpIv37]

Agreed.

But, to be fair, his demands of $12 million are almost equally ridiculous.

yeah, it's ridiculous that they can't just agree on something in the $10 million range. That would be almost $6 million more than he's making this season- it would be stupid of Peters to give that up (plus any potential missed game checks/fines from a holdout) over $1.5 million.

[jamze132]

yeah, it's ridiculous that they can't just agree on something in the $10 million range. That would be almost $6 million more than he's making this season- it would be stupid of Peters to give that up (plus any potential missed game checks/fines from a holdout) over $1.5 million.
The problem is that his agent is a ****ing tard. He could care less where his client plays as long as he gets paid. And I don't think Peters give's two ****s either where he plays even though 32 teams passed on him in the draft and 31 teams passed on him as an UDFA. It's all about the benjamins.

[M]

If they do decide to trade Peters, I hope it happens sooner rather than later. I'm afraid of the FO making decisions on the fly during draft day!

[madness]

Concerning last year, Pro Bowl and Peters shouldn't even be in the same sentence.

[OpIv37]

If they do decide to trade Peters, I hope it happens sooner rather than later. I'm afraid of the FO making decisions on the fly during draft day!

I'm afraid of this FO making decisions during draft day, period. Given their past performance, it would almost be better to just dial 1-716+ seven random digits and ask whoever answers who they should take in the draft.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

He's earned the raise. He's far underpaid for his position. And not paying him sends a message to other players that they can't get paid what they're worth in Buffalo.


Tell that to Stroud, Lee, Kyle or Brad. The Bills have shown as an organization that if you show up, work hard, you will get rewarded. I have no problem with what the Bills our doing, I wanted Peters resigned badly but I have come to the conclusion he just doesn't want to be here. This is a great draft for top end tackle talent. Just trade, take Oher at 11, or Britton/Beaty with that 2nd 1st rounder. You can rebuild your line quickly and do it through the draft. You just have to do it early.

[OpIv37]

Tell that to Stroud, Lee, Kyle or Brad. The Bills have shown as an organization that if you show up, work hard, you will get rewarded. I have no problem with what the Bills our doing, I wanted Peters resigned badly but I have come to the conclusion he just doesn't want to be here. This is a great draft for top end tackle talent. Just trade, take Oher at 11, or Britton/Beaty with that 2nd 1st rounder. You can rebuild your line quickly and do it through the draft. You just have to do it early.

we can build the line quickly? Really? Seems like we've been trying to build the line since we got Bledsoe in 2002 with no success to show for it. Maybe it's technically possible to build a line quickly, but this FO has no friggin clue how to do it.

[yordad]

He's earned the raise. He's far underpaid for his position. And not paying him sends a message to other players that they can't get paid what they're worth in Buffalo.

And what cohesion on the line? We're changing a minimum of two starters and two back ups.I was talking about the cohesion last year. But, now that you mention it, wouldn't the fact they are bringing in 2 new starters make cohesion more important then ever in this years training camp?

Oh, and I don't consider showing up late, leaving early, and while there playing completely uninspired, to be earning the raise he is demanding.

I believe it sends the message that you do not dictate to the Bills. You do not tell them what you are going to get paid. There is a time and place for negotiation, but there is no time and no place for demands.

[Historian]

This team's been rebuilding since Jim Kelly retired...

[justasportsfan]

Dockery, Preston, and Fowler were scrubs. Getting rid of them was addition by subtraction. And while the Bills have no LG as of yet, they could literally find anyone and he could do as well as Dockery did the past 2 years, for 1/4 the price. And Hangartner is a better player than Preston and Fowler.
and who decided to hire/keep them? Who decided that Dockery fits our system and worthy of being paid highest in franchise history only to get cut? The very same people who will make another attempt to fix his OL . They had 3 years to do so. Are we gonna give them another 3 years to play around with this OL with a bunch of rookies?

You know rookies take time to learn in the pro level unless they are top talent from the draft and HAVE PROVEN COACHES developing them .OUr coaches haven't proven a damn thing in 3 years except that this staff hasn't had IMMEDIATE success with rookies.

Even if you grabbed top rookies in this year draft, where's the depth? Another thing to consider is that our players have been injury prone under this staff ,especially rookies.

[kid mickey]

This draft is shaping up to be all about the offensive line. Peters goes then I guess you could pretty much say a tackle is probably a lock at 11. Then you are probably looking at a situational rusher with pick 21 or possibly Brandon Pettigrew. Then depending on what the Bills like as far as Guards, that will be addressed in Round 3. Either way if Peters gets traded I will probably be disappointed in the draft because now we can pretty much assure that we won't get Everette Brown!!!

[psubills62]

He's earned the raise. He's far underpaid for his position. And not paying him sends a message to other players that they can't get paid what they're worth in Buffalo.

And what cohesion on the line? We're changing a minimum of two starters and two back ups.

At this point, I think it's been shown that players get paid what they are worth (or more than what they're worth, in some cases, ahem Kelsay) in Buffalo. I still maintain that Peters would be a LOT closer to a new contract with bigger numbers if he hadn't screwed around last offseason.

Does anyone here believe that the Buffalo front office would be thinking of trading Peters if he had shown up to everything and played lights out all season long? I don't.

Maybe the front office should have seen it coming, as some of you suggest. But the fact remains that they didn't. However, if Peters had simply done things the right way (told them he wants a new contract, then shown up to practices), I guarantee they would have had the insight at that point to try negotiating with him.

As it happened, Peters not only showed a lack of team attitude by his holdout, his play was sub-par for the season, and he showed yet again that he wasn't able to last a whole season (got injured). You can blame the holdout for some, most or all of those things, but the fact remains that there are now a lot more questions about Peters. Will he maintain the level of play that he did before the holdout? Or will he just level off and play as an average LT after getting his money?

[trapezeus]

The best we're going to get is draft picks. We've already cut/failed to resign 4 offensive linemen from last year and only signed one. Trading away a proven, Pro Bowl player for completely unproven draft picks is a sure sign of rebuilding.

This team isn't even close.

Couple thoughts.

1. One thing to keep in mind is that if Peters showed real desire to be a good football player, seasonround, then i'd buy paying him whatever he wants. But he's shown time and time again that he's trying to maximize his value at the detriment of the team. last year's hold out with potentially this year's hold out isn't good. The fact that he took a long time to get into season shape suggests his at home regiment wasn't close to being good enough.

In business that's fine to maximize your profit. So I get what he's trying to do and appreciate it. But in a pro football, all the players are pretty good. So the front office needs to know your desire is there. They need to know that you aren't looking for the payday and then crap out. The way peters has handled the last two seasons, for him to be considered a lock as a good player once he gets his contract just isn't there. Additionally, we are quickly approaching an uncapped 2010. What is he going to do then, even if you meet his demands today?

2. i find it hard that peters is the best or even top 5 at his position. We have a stud running back tandem that runs hard every down, yet the bills oculdn't just run it down people's throats on the left side. Our starting QB got hurt, our backup fumbled in the jets game due to his missed block. Is that what a top 5 linemen does? He's good. Yes. IS he $11MM a year good? No. I think a good lineman who is here for the full camp is going to show us a better run game than a guy who isn't here to make the unit cohesive.

Those are my thoughts.

[Michael82]

Excellent post, trapezeus! :bf1:

[justasportsfan]

We have a stud running back tandem that runs hard every down, yet the bills oculdn't just run it down people's throats on the left side. Our starting QB got hurt, our backup fumbled in the jets game due to his missed block. Is that what a top 5 linemen does? He's good. Yes. IS he $11MM a year good? No. I think a good lineman who is here for the full camp is going to show us a better run game than a guy who isn't here to make the unit cohesive.

.

you have to put part of the blame on the coaches who are soooooooo predictable and the one they hired and fired, Dockery.

[trapezeus]

you have to put part of the blame on the coaches who are soooooooo predictable and the one they hired and fired, Dockery.

I understand our coaching weak and the front office is worse. There is no justifying that we are taking RB's every draft and only 1 of them sticks around. it seems like they draft and draft, but are afraid of putting them in game time situations.

But it is what it is. We aren't getting any new coaching talent in here anytime soon. I firmly believe that paying for proven coaches who can see talent is better than overpaying a couple "name" players.

[justasportsfan]

I understand our coaching weak and the front office is worse. There is no justifying that we are taking RB's every draft and only 1 of them sticks around. it seems like they draft and draft, but are afraid of putting them in game time situations.

But it is what it is. We aren't getting any new coaching talent in here anytime soon. I firmly believe that paying for proven coaches who can see talent is better than overpaying a couple "name" players.
this is why Peters may be worth what he's asking for to compensate for the lack of decent coaching on this team. Add to the fact the teams we play in the AFCE. Yeah I know people are going to say that Peters did nothing last year, but a Peters thats been to camp will be better than ANY player out there .

[trapezeus]

i guess where I am right now is that the Bills already said to me very clearly that 2009 doesn't matter to them when they let Jauron stay. I don't think keeping players, drafting players, picking up players in FA is going to do anything. Jauron and his coachign staff just doesn't know what they have in the players they have.

How many times have we seen good players like Fred Jackson and Steve Johnson sit to let veterans stuggle? Why are the back end of our drafts just filled with junk that never, ever sees the field? Demetrius Bell, Omon etc? come on!

And like you said, who knows if they guys suck or Jauron just won't give them a chance to play. It really angers the **** out of me that we we draft a RB 2 years in a row in the later rounds and one got cut and the other is not good enough to step in for 3 weeks for the bills without lynch. Give me a break. This is why you draft the players. a 3 week stretch. We should be able to rely on Jackson and Omon. We don't need a washed up RB taking money away from other areas where we need to get better.

How many years are we going to stick with the slow undersized linebacker? It hasn't worked. And the teams who are doing well are the teams with large defensive line players. The ones who don't have stellar secondaries, but instead a great line and a really good safety. We have neither.

I want to believe the Bills will make a run this year, but i'm mentally preparing for a 3-13 team. and i won't blame TO being here on any of it. I blame it on the idiots who elected to take a cheap coach instead of good coach.

[Historian]

this is why Peters may be worth what he's asking for to compensate for the lack of decent coaching on this team. .

That's just not how you build a winning team, and quite frankly Justa, it's a defeatest attitude.

That's the mindset that has us as perrenial losers for a decade. (Unprecedented, even for Buffalo!)

I agree with Trap's take on the issue, wholeheartedly.

[psubills62]

i guess where I am right now is that the Bills already said to me very clearly that 2009 doesn't matter to them when they let Jauron stay. I don't think keeping players, drafting players, picking up players in FA is going to do anything. Jauron and his coachign staff just doesn't know what they have in the players they have.

How many times have we seen good players like Fred Jackson and Steve Johnson sit to let veterans stuggle? Why are the back end of our drafts just filled with junk that never, ever sees the field? Demetrius Bell, Omon etc? come on!

And like you said, who knows if they guys suck or Jauron just won't give them a chance to play. It really angers the **** out of me that we we draft a RB 2 years in a row in the later rounds and one got cut and the other is not good enough to step in for 3 weeks for the bills without lynch. Give me a break. This is why you draft the players. a 3 week stretch. We should be able to rely on Jackson and Omon. We don't need a washed up RB taking money away from other areas where we need to get better.

How many years are we going to stick with the slow undersized linebacker? It hasn't worked. And the teams who are doing well are the teams with large defensive line players. The ones who don't have stellar secondaries, but instead a great line and a really good safety. We have neither.

I want to believe the Bills will make a run this year, but i'm mentally preparing for a 3-13 team. and i won't blame TO being here on any of it. I blame it on the idiots who elected to take a cheap coach instead of good coach.

I agree with you for the most part. However, I'm not sure I understand your point in bold. Bell was drafted as someone who could eventually see the field. He's a project, so of course he won't be seeing the field his first year. Johnson played more than I thought he would, though Hardy's injury helped that. Schouman's seen the field more than most 7th-rounders.

I'm confused, because I personally see our late-rounders being used a lot more than most team's late-rounders. I think Bowen would have seen the field more if he hadn't been injured. Omon simply wasn't needed for the most part. I think Wendling is one of the few that I could say - why on earth isn't he in there more often? Steve Johnson probably should have gotten more chances last year, but he still got quite a few.

If you want to keep going back, then what about Brad Butler and Kyle Williams (5th rounders turned starter), and Keith Ellison (6th rounder turned starter)?

So in general, I do agree with you about our coaches and stuff. It's true they sometimes keep vets on there when they shouldn't. But imo, our late-rounders have done better than should be expected.

[jmb1099]

It could mean rebuilding or it could mean you have an unreasonable player with a much too high opinion of himself that is becoming more of a circus act than TO.

[justasportsfan]

That's just not how you build a winning team, and quite frankly Justa, it's a defeatest attitude.

That's the mindset that has us as perrenial losers for a decade. (Unprecedented, even for Buffalo!)

I agree with Trap's take on the issue, wholeheartedly.


If the eagles give up a ton of picks and pay Peters what he wants, are they idiots for doing what this FO wasn't willing to do?

We need more talent than the eagles do but it may come down to them willing to overpay in order to win while the bills would do what, rebuild again because we didn't want to overpay even though we're more desperate than the eagles? Would that mean they have a defeatists attitude?


Will the Bills' FO or anyone here dare laugh at the eagles FO if they overpay for Peters and say they are cluless?

WE are prerenial losers because we don't take care of the players we should and overpay the ones we shouldn't.