Let's call this what it is....

[OpIv37]

We are officially REBUILDING, yet AGAIN.

We just moved a franchise LT for a bunch of draft picks. Translation: this team doesn't anticipate being good for at least two more seasons.

No LT, No LG, another team's back up at C, no OL depth, terrible DE's, big hole at OLB. There is no way that can be handled in one draft- it's impossible.

We are set at RB, WR, and CB and one S slot (yes, I am talking about Whitner, believe it or not). Every other position on this team is at best a question mark and at worst a glaring hole.

Why even bother with signing Terrell Owens? We have an inexperienced QB and no one to protect him.

This team is just pathetic.

[Typ0]

Then again, it might just mean they want to put an end to the JP fiasco and move onto bigger and better things...

[OpIv37]

Then again, it might just mean they want to put an end to the JP fiasco and move onto bigger and better things...

well they won't be moving on to anything for a while.

Face it- we're going into the draft with 4 major holes, limited depth (at best) and a ton of picks. That's called "rebuilding."

[justasportsfan]

Then again, it might just mean they want to put an end to the JP fiasco and move onto bigger and better things...
with all due respect Typo, what has this FO done to show you they are capable of moving on to bigger and better things? I hope they do this season but consider the teams in the division we're in are also moving on to bigger and better things that already have a headstart over us with move proven FO and staff than us.

[Bill Cody]

Didn't you already post a similar thread? But ok I'll bite. It doesn't have anything to do with rebuilding or not. We had 3 choices, tell me which the Bills should have done:
1) completely cave in to Peters demands and make him the highest paid LT in the game.
2) refuse to cave in but continue to try to sign him to a fair contract, which he would refuse to sign, hold out again, distract the team and have another mediocre season.
3) move the beotch for the best offer we could get.

We chose option 3. What would you have done? BTW, NE won their 1st SB with a rookie 2nd round pick at LT. Peters can be replaced.

[jamze132]

To be honest, I am glad that that douche is gone. Last year, was he really that good? I think anyone we pick at #28 to fill his spot will be just as productive his first year as Peters was last year.

[OpIv37]

Didn't you already post a similar thread? But ok I'll bite. It doesn't have anything to do with rebuilding or not. We had 3 choices, tell me which the Bills should have done:
1) completely cave in to Peters demands and make him the highest paid LT in the game.
2) refuse to cave in but continue to try to sign him to a fair contract, which he would refuse to sign, hold out again, distract the team and have another mediocre season.
3) move the beotch for the best offer we could get.

We chose option 3. What would you have done? BTW, NE won their 1st SB with a rookie 2nd round pick at LT. Peters can be replaced.

What would I have done? Paid the man.

But it's irrelevant. You think paying him was a bad option and the team had no choice? Fine. It doesn't change the fact that we now have to rebuild.

[Typ0]

I just don't think they did this to rebuild...I think they did this because JP wasn't happy here and was going to continue to be a distraction to the progress of the team. So they moved on. Is it a shame we lost this player? Absolutely. Why? We don't really know. But it is what it is and it's over now and he won't be holding out again and hopefully everyone on the roster will have a good attitude about being here.

I count more than 4 holes anyway: LB; DE; TE; RB; LT; LG; DB... it does look really bad plus our schedule is brutal. Got to hope for the best and JP whining and complaining all season and playing at half mast wasn't going to get us there. IMO this is a step in the right direction even though it may be an immediate setback.

[Mahdi]

We are officially REBUILDING, yet AGAIN.

We just moved a franchise LT for a bunch of draft picks. Translation: this team doesn't anticipate being good for at least two more seasons.

No LT, No LG, another team's back up at C, no OL depth, terrible DE's, big hole at OLB. There is no way that can be handled in one draft- it's impossible.

We are set at RB, WR, and CB and one S slot (yes, I am talking about Whitner, believe it or not). Every other position on this team is at best a question mark and at worst a glaring hole.

Why even bother with signing Terrell Owens? We have an inexperienced QB and no one to protect him.

This team is just pathetic.
Nah. Were not rebuilding. This move is more of a re-adjustment. It could work out, it could fail.

Honestly, if we come out of the draft with Ayers and Beatty or A.Smith and Sidbury it could actually work out nicely.

[Typ0]

What would I have done? Paid the man.

But it's irrelevant. You think paying him was a bad option and the team had no choice? Fine. It doesn't change the fact that we now have to rebuild.

the problem is he wanted too much and wouldn't budge. He's been hyped up and is not as good as he appears to be. He's going to hold out for that big payday before it emerges he's just an average joe IMO.

[djjimkelly]

We are officially REBUILDING, yet AGAIN.

We just moved a franchise LT for a bunch of draft picks. Translation: this team doesn't anticipate being good for at least two more seasons.

No LT, No LG, another team's back up at C, no OL depth, terrible DE's, big hole at OLB. There is no way that can be handled in one draft- it's impossible.

We are set at RB, WR, and CB and one S slot (yes, I am talking about Whitner, believe it or not). Every other position on this team is at best a question mark and at worst a glaring hole.

Why even bother with signing Terrell Owens? We have an inexperienced QB and no one to protect him.

This team is just pathetic.

i couldnt have said this better if i tried OP!!

honestly all i hope for is best player available in both spots in first round now.

and i will secretly be hoping we draft a QB at 11.

[justasportsfan]

I count more than 4 holes anyway: LB; DE; TE; RB; LT; LG; DB...
aha! More holes after 3 years and now a new one yet people think they can move on to bigger things? How about bigger holes.

[justasportsfan]

If we end up using our top pick for an OL, we're stuck with Schobel and Kelsay as our DE's. Woohooo!

[OpIv37]

If we end up using out top pick for an OL, we're stuck with Schobel and Kelsay as our DE's. Woohooo!

See, that's part of the issue- the Bills' FO (and numerous posters on here as well) don't see Schobel and Kelsay as a problem. They just use the Schobel injury excuse and say all will be well now that he's healthy.

[justasportsfan]

We should call our team The Buffaholes Bills.

[kernowboy]

A great move.

1) We get rid of a headache who clearly wanted out of Buffalo. If we played to 2008 form we'd have a massive cap hit contract on the books.

2) The opportunity to draft a top young LT like Beatty or Britton who might actually want to play in Buffalo, and might turn up to training camp rather than sit out pre-season and then the opening games

3) The opportunity to use our R1 (11) and R2 (42) on defence which still wins championships.

Can someone explain why a massive contract front loaded would make Peters return to 2007 rather than 2008 form? How many FAs have signed huge deals then catastophically sucked?

IMO it is the Eagles that are taking the massive risk.

[Bill Cody]

What would I have done? Paid the man.

But it's irrelevant. You think paying him was a bad option and the team had no choice? Fine. It doesn't change the fact that we now have to rebuild.

It's one player. Every team in the league has holes and some of them get filled by the draft. Come in off the ledge.

As an aside, I prefer my OL guys to be intelligent. DE's can be stupid and get away with it but there are a lot of variables an OL guy has to deal with. Peters was a physical freak but he was also a moron, sub 10 wonderlic who couldn't make it at TE because he was too dumb to learn the playbook. Now after we take him in off the street and develop him he thanks us by trying to hold us up for top money. I won't miss him. The key is what we do with the picks.

[kernowboy]

If we end up using our top pick for an OL, we're stuck with Schobel and Kelsay as our DE's. Woohooo!

R1 (11) Everette Brown - to replace Schobel
R1 (21-28 moving up using No121) William Beatty LT
R2 (42) Jarron Gilbert - to replace Kelsay

Brown gives a passing down end and ultimately replacement for Schobel who had 13.5 sacks last season

Beatty is considered as athletic as any LT and has been extremely impressive at all pro-days plus has made a concert effort to address any concerns in the off season, working out and bulking up

Gilbert is a 6ft6, 288lbs DT with a 40time of 4.87 who is considered by many a good LE prospect who can move inside on passing downs. He also had 9 sacks last year

Weren't we appalling at getting to the opposition QB last year?

I would definitely say woohoo !!!!!

[justasportsfan]

R1 (11) Everette Brown - to replace Schobel
R1 (21-28 moving up using No121) William Beatty LT
R2 (42) Jarron Gilbert - to replace Kelsay

Brown gives a passing down end and ultimately replacement for Schobel who had 13.5 sacks last season

Beatty is considered as athletic as any LT and has been extremely impressive at all pro-days plus has made a concert effort to address any concerns in the off season, working out and bulking up

Gilbert is a 6ft6, 288lbs DT with a 40time of 4.87 who is considered by many a good LE prospect who can move inside on passing downs

I would definitely say woohoo !!!!!


wow, a bunch of rookies are just gonna come in and do to the pats, jets and fins what Aaron and Kelsay couldn't do?

Not even Marrio Williams was that good in his rookie year.

[kernowboy]

wow, a bunch of rookies are just gonna come in and do to the pats, jets and fins what Aaron and Kelsay couldn't do?

Not even Marrio Williams was that good in his rookie year.

But many rookies do ... and there is no need to start them all.

You said we have no options.

Schobel opposite Gilbert with Brown rotating in
Schobel opposite Ellis who will now be in his second season
Brown opposite Ellis

not forgetting that Denney and Kelsay might produce a storming pre-season and finally a season performance.

The Pats line has shown its falliable against fast attacking ends and light ends moved inside.

The Jets line is susceptible to the pass rush especially their LT and they were starting Woody at RT last year.

Jake Long could easily have a poor second year as many top first year players do.

What it does give us is two ends who know what the oppositive QB looks like.

[justasportsfan]

But many rookies do ... and there is no need to start them all.

You said we have no options.

Schobel opposite Gilbert with Brown rotating in
Schobel opposite Ellis who will now be in his second season
Brown opposite Ellis

not forgetting that Denney and Kelsay might produce a storming pre-season and finally a season performance.

The Pats line has shown its falliable against fast attacking ends and light ends moved inside.

The Jets line is susceptible to the pass rush especially their LT and they were starting Woody at RT last year.

Jake Long could easily have a poor second year as many top first year players do.

What it does give us is two ends who know what the oppositive QB looks like.


In other words, you're hoping the rest of the AFCE's gets hit with a tsunami .

[kernowboy]

No

I'm just not panicking and throwing all my toys out my pram but looking at what has happened in a calm and collected manner.

Last season Peters was appalling - why would he be better with a fat undeserved contract?

[justasportsfan]

No

I'm just not panicking and throwing all my toys out my pram but looking at what has happened in a calm and collected manner.?




Some of us already think it's time to panic if you consider us being one of the teams to not make playoffs this decade, we're back to being the AFCE's ***** with the coaching staff thats responsible for that was retained, talks about Bills to toronto are growing each day.

I'm starting to think the bills will move before we ever sniff an AFC championship at the rate we're going.

I don't think I'll ever see the bills win a sb in my lifetime.



Last season Peters was appalling - why would he be better with a fat undeserved contract? The eagles may not think he was that appalling and I don't think the bills did either because they fired Dockery instead. I would also do what the bills did to Dockery. If Peters sucked this year cut him. What have we got to lose ? Another crappy season? The rewards would've been so much bigger if he gained back his 07 form because he was paid.

Just like we thought PAt Williams wasn't worth what he got when we let him go, the very same thing could happen with Peters especially when the uncapped year kicks in.

[OpIv37]

It's one player. Every team in the league has holes and some of them get filled by the draft. Come in off the ledge.

As an aside, I prefer my OL guys to be intelligent. DE's can be stupid and get away with it but there are a lot of variables an OL guy has to deal with. Peters was a physical freak but he was also a moron, sub 10 wonderlic who couldn't make it at TE because he was too dumb to learn the playbook. Now after we take him in off the street and develop him he thanks us by trying to hold us up for top money. I won't miss him. The key is what we do with the picks.

It's not ONE player. We lost 3 starters off the OL, and haven't even replaced TWO of them yet... not to mention the fact that we now have to replace LT limits our ability to fill other holes. It's ignorant to say it's just one player.

And regardless of what we do with the picks, it'll be 2 years before we get results. I don't know why Bills fans seem to be the only ones who think we can draft someone and have an instant superstar, especially with this crappy FO making the picks.

[OpIv37]

No

I'm just not panicking and throwing all my toys out my pram but looking at what has happened in a calm and collected manner.

Last season Peters was appalling - why would he be better with a fat undeserved contract?

and therein lies the heart of the problem. Your logic is based on a faulty premise.

[kernowboy]

and therein lies the heart of the problem. Your logic is based on a faulty premise.

Were you watching a different team then? He sat out, missed all pre-season and then the start of the season, and gave up more sacks than any other LT with the exception of Duane Brown.

Correct the faulty premise.

[billsfanone]

Agreed with your premise OP. I'd call it rebuilding if they were making progress. They have taken a huge step backwards this offseason. The only potential positive is Owens, who has the risk of being a bigger negative. The Bills are f'ed. I see 4 or 5 games tops this year.

[raphael120]

We have a gaping hole at Owner, GM, and head coach.

[OpIv37]

Were you watching a different team then? He sat out, missed all pre-season and then the start of the season, and gave up more sacks than any other LT with the exception of Duane Brown.

Correct the faulty premise.

I agree that he sucked when he first came back- no doubt that holding out hurt him.

But after that, you're just wrong.

Gave up more sacks? Based on whose analysis? What criteria did he use to determine who gave up the sack? Was he in the huddle? Did he know what the blocking assignments were? Did he account for the times JP and Trent held the ball too long? Did he mention that several of the sacks Peters gave up were after the game was out of hand anyway?

"Sacks given up" isn't even an official stat. Someone comes up with a number and everyone parrots it back without bothering to think about it.

The fact is that Peters played well in most games. Example: he shut down Jerry Porter to the point where Porter started lining up on the other side to get pressure. The guy's a damn good player, and if he had gotten his fat ass into camp last year, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

[Philagape]

The only way to dig out of this chasm would be to get two O-linemen and a DE on the first day, and have all them be hits. Don't get your hopes up.

[raphael120]

FYI, the only impact player from last year that we drafted was McKelvin, and it's because he returns kicks. Hardy didn't do anything. Ellis did nothing.

The only impact player from '07? Lynch. Poz got injured his rookie year and he didn't make an impact this year either. Edwards still has yet to stake claim that he's a franchise QB.

Impact player from '06? None. Whitner stunk his first year, Youboty got injured, Kyle Williams proved he wasn't a total waste of space, Ellison sucks...

Oh yeah, I have tons of faith that this team will turn itself around by signing a center and TO and letting go a Pro Bowl LT.

[BillsOwnAll]

What would I have done? Paid the man.

But it's irrelevant. You think paying him was a bad option and the team had no choice? Fine. It doesn't change the fact that we now have to rebuild.


You would have paid him??? Thats a TERRIFIC way to run a team. Show everyone all you have to do is hold out for an entire preseason. Not be in game shape week one. Then refuse to compromise on a fair contract. Then the FO will pay you. I wish every Bills that did that, that had any sort of skill. Great idea.

[Philagape]

Bottom line, the team right now is worse than 08. Losing Peters far more than offsets signing TO. The draft is now about undoing the damage than adding anything. And there's no reason to think the team won't screw up the draft again.

[OpIv37]

You would have paid him??? Thats a TERRIFIC way to run a team. Show everyone all you have to do is hold out for an entire preseason. Not be in game shape week one. Then refuse to compromise on a fair contract. Then the FO will pay you. I wish every Bills that did that, that had any sort of skill. Great idea.

yeah, instead they traded a proven commodity for a bunch of rookies who will get millions even though they haven't proven ****. And all the other players just learned that the Bills won't pay top talent, so why bother becoming top talent?

That's a great message and a great way to win!

[billsfanone]

You would have paid him??? Thats a TERRIFIC way to run a team. Show everyone all you have to do is hold out for an entire preseason. Not be in game shape week one. Then refuse to compromise on a fair contract. Then the FO will pay you. I wish every Bills that did that, that had any sort of skill. Great idea.

The alternative is 7-9. At best. The Bills have proved this over and over.

[HHURRICANE]

We are officially REBUILDING, yet AGAIN.

We just moved a franchise LT for a bunch of draft picks. Translation: this team doesn't anticipate being good for at least two more seasons.

No LT, No LG, another team's back up at C, no OL depth, terrible DE's, big hole at OLB. There is no way that can be handled in one draft- it's impossible.

We are set at RB, WR, and CB and one S slot (yes, I am talking about Whitner, believe it or not). Every other position on this team is at best a question mark and at worst a glaring hole.

Why even bother with signing Terrell Owens? We have an inexperienced QB and no one to protect him.

This team is just pathetic.

I love how the stupid fans ran out and bought tickets for TO and than a week before the draft the Bills give away their best player.

Ralph keeps raping you.

I'm done with this joke of a team. The 28th pick for Peters. What a joke.

[justasportsfan]

I love how the stupid fans ran out
I'm done with this joke of a team. The 28th pick for Peters. What a joke.

That wasn't necesary.

[raphael120]

I'd love to say that we can do fine without a proven LT. Look at the Steelers. Their LT was a disaster. But when you talk about anything about football and the Bills, you have to talk about it within the bounds of the Buffalo sports disaster bubble. Whatever other teams do and succeed with, the Bills try and emulate and end up failing.

[OpIv37]

I'd love to say that we can do fine without a proven LT. Look at the Steelers. Their LT was a disaster. But when you talk about anything about football and the Bills, you have to talk about it within the bounds of the Buffalo sports disaster bubble. Whatever other teams do and succeed with, the Bills try and emulate and end up failing.

the other thing is that all the teams that did well without a good LT have a LOT more talent in other areas to make up for it. The Steelers have an amazing D and a huge QB who can take a little bit of a beating. We don't have either of those things.

[DrGraves]

We are rebuilding... T.O. was brought in for a year just to give the delusional fans false hope and make some money in the process.

[DrGraves]

BTW:

Buffalo is not rebuidling

Toronto is laying its foundations

[raphael120]

Here's the facts:

The Bills did what they had to do with the JP situation. OK, fine.

But what else have they done to make this team better than a 7 win team???

We signed T.O. and lost Jason Peters. That'll give us 3 more wins and make us a playoff team!?!

I don't think so, unless Edwards totally plays his ass off.

[raphael120]

BTW:

Buffalo is not rebuidling

Toronto is laying its foundations
Nice.

[DrGraves]

We should sign mike vick... i mean if we are going to have no one to block for the QB we might as well have someone who can run for his life...

[OpIv37]

Here's the facts:

The Bills did what they had to do with the JP situation. OK, fine.

But what else have they done to make this team better than a 7 win team???

We signed T.O. and lost Jason Peters. That'll give us 3 more wins and make us a playoff team!?!

I don't think so, unless Edwards can play well sitting on his ass.

I modified it for you, because without Peters, Edwards will be spending way too much time in the turf.

[BillsOwnAll]

yeah, instead they traded a proven commodity for a bunch of rookies who will get millions even though they haven't proven ****. And all the other players just learned that the Bills won't pay top talent, so why bother becoming top talent?

That's a great message and a great way to win!


He had one good year in his career? He was making what 3.25 mil? The 11th pick wont make much more(if not less) then that and will probally play better. Even the 28th pick will play better.


If lee evans and stroud held out right now would you just go and pay them too? If it worked like that everyone would do it.

[jamze132]

If we end up using our top pick for an OL, we're stuck with Schobel and Kelsay as our DE's. Woohooo!
And if we take a DE, we are still stuck with no LT, no LG, and a back-up C.

Regardless of what we do, there are going to be holes all over the place. There is no reason to get your hopes up for the 2009 Bills.