The Bills Offensive Line

[Ingtar33]

ok.

Now, Jason Peters probably didn't want to play in buffalo. I won't even argue over that issue...

It's done, he's gone, and we're forced to look at this as our o-line.

LT - Demetrius Bell
LG - Kirk Chambers, Seth McKinney
C - Geoff Hangartner, Marvin Philip
RG - Brad Butler, Brandon Rodd
RT - Langston Walker, Jonathan Scott, Chris Denman

Now... we can argue about how the Bills will shuffle the players. It's possible Walker will go to LT, though i think it's more likely that Chambers will move outside, and it will be either Chambers or Bell at LT.

considering we signed McKinney a week or two ago, i think that signing was in anticipation of the Peter's trade, and we'll see chambers move to LT

that leaves us with a line that will probably look like this...

LT - Bell/Chambers
LG - McKinney
C - Hangartner
RG - Butler (the oft injured)
RT - Walker

Now, I'll be serious. Hangartner may or may not be an upgrade over our Fowler/Preston travesty, in reality we might see Hangartner and McKinney flip positions before the end of training camp (as i recall him being a somewhat acceptable center)...

But lets say the line above is what we end up with going into the season. We just got much worse on the line. Dockery and Peters were downright putrid last year. But they were light years better then the duo we'll be sporting on our QB's blindside this year. Throw in the fact we'll be sporting an unknown at C, and you can't say this looks like a good line.

I'd say there is now room for 3 to 4 draftpicks on that line. LT, LG, C, RG... the lone part of the line that's really NFL quality is Walker.

[Kenny]

Re: The Bills Offensive Line

It'd be interesting to see how the Bills grade Bell vs. starting any of the available rookie tackles not named Jason Smith, Eugene Monroe, Michael Oher or Andre Smith.

Im starting to warm up with giving Bell a chance this year. I dont think he'd be any worse then starting another rookie... and if it doesnt work out, maybe we get a chance @ Okung next year?

[Goobylal]

Re: The Bills Offensive Line

Butler was less injured than Peters the past 2 years. Hangartner will be a huge upgrade over Preston/Fowler. It's amazing how many Panthers fans have good things to say about him, versus the other chumps the Bills signed like Bennie Anderson, Tutan Reyes, and even Melvin Fowler. McKinney can do no worse than the nothing that Dockery provided the past 2 years. So that leaves LT. It will probably come down to Chambers, Bell, a rookie, or as a last resort, flipping Walker over there.

[Ingtar33]

Re: The Bills Offensive Line

It'd be interesting to see how the Bills grade Bell vs. starting any of the available rookie tackles not named Jason Smith, Eugene Monroe, Michael Oher or Andre Smith.

Im starting to warm up with giving Bell a chance this year. I dont think he'd be any worse then starting another rookie... and if it doesnt work out, maybe we get a chance @ Okung next year?

If i am the Bills GM, and i say those words to Ralph Wilson i'd deserve to be fired. You don't go into an NFL season with question marks on your line unless you plan on missing the offseason.

If they're thinking like this, they deserve the 4-12 record to follow.

But then the lack of attention to the O-line is whats killed this team for a decade.

[psubills62]

Re: The Bills Offensive Line

ok.

Now, Jason Peters probably didn't want to play in buffalo. I won't even argue over that issue...

It's done, he's gone, and we're forced to look at this as our o-line.

LT - Demetrius Bell
LG - Kirk Chambers, Seth McKinney
C - Geoff Hangartner, Marvin Philip
RG - Brad Butler, Brandon Rodd
RT - Langston Walker, Jonathan Scott, Chris Denman

Now... we can argue about how the Bills will shuffle the players. It's possible Walker will go to LT, though i think it's more likely that Chambers will move outside, and it will be either Chambers or Bell at LT.

considering we signed McKinney a week or two ago, i think that signing was in anticipation of the Peter's trade, and we'll see chambers move to LT

that leaves us with a line that will probably look like this...

LT - Bell/Chambers
LG - McKinney
C - Hangartner
RG - Butler (the oft injured)
RT - Walker

Now, I'll be serious. Hangartner may or may not be an upgrade over our Fowler/Preston travesty, in reality we might see Hangartner and McKinney flip positions before the end of training camp (as i recall him being a somewhat acceptable center)...

But lets say the line above is what we end up with going into the season. We just got much worse on the line. Dockery and Peters were downright putrid last year. But they were light years better then the duo we'll be sporting on our QB's blindside this year. Throw in the fact we'll be sporting an unknown at C, and you can't say this looks like a good line.

I'd say there is now room for 3 to 4 draftpicks on that line. LT, LG, C, RG... the lone part of the line that's really NFL quality is Walker.

In that case, I'd say you have a high standard of "NFL quality." I doubt that Bell is quite ready to start, especially on the left side. I believe Chambers would be adequate there, but we should try to upgrade if possible.

McKinney was a decent starter at OG, and Hangartner has shown no reason to think he'll suck.

None of those guys will be Pro-Bowl players, but they're not exactly third-string guys. It would be easy enough to upgrade the LG spot and our depth in the draft. I just don't think people realize how bad Fowler/Preston and Dockery were last year. Peters wasn't exactly in top form either. I also think part of the problem was penalties last year. If we can get guys who don't take penalties...I remember Dockery taking several and Peters I believe was reported taking eight penalties. Penalties are almost as bad as a sack.

[SeatownBillsFan21]

Re: The Bills Offensive Line

Dont see Bell as a starter YET looks like Chambers or a draft pick.

[Ingtar33]

Re: The Bills Offensive Line

Butler was less injured than Peters the past 2 years. Hangartner will be a huge upgrade over Preston/Fowler. It's amazing how many Panthers fans have good things to say about him, versus the other chumps the Bills signed like Bennie Anderson, Tutan Reyes, and even Melvin Fowler. McKinney can do no worse than the nothing that Dockery provided the past 2 years. So that leaves LT. It will probably come down to Chambers, Bell, a rookie, or as a last resort, flipping Walker over there.

Butler missed 3 games last season, and he missed parts of 4 other games with injuries.

I'm sorry but your enthusiasm over Hangartner i think is widely misplaced. I never saw anything out of him to say he's more then a Fowler or Preston. I hope I'm wrong on that.

And if your standard is that the swap of Dockery to McKinney is a draw, does nothing for our future. The McKinney i saw last year was not a good player. Not a terrible one. but definitely something you replace at the earliest convenience. That's what we have on our o-line already with Butler.

[Kenny]

Re: The Bills Offensive Line

If i am the Bills GM, and i say those words to Ralph Wilson i'd deserve to be fired. You don't go into an NFL season with question marks on your line unless you plan on missing the offseason.

If they're thinking like this, they deserve the 4-12 record to follow.

But then the lack of attention to the O-line is whats killed this team for a decade.

The way I see it, our offense is probably going to hurt this season, regardless of whether we go with Bell or a rookie (since the elite prospects are probably gone @ 11). Why not see what Bell has?

But... we have a chance to really solidify our defense.
In a perfect situation, I'd love to see Raji drop to #11, and then go for best DE @ 28.

[Ingtar33]

Re: The Bills Offensive Line

In that case, I'd say you have a high standard of "NFL quality." I doubt that Bell is quite ready to start, especially on the left side. I believe Chambers would be adequate there, but we should try to upgrade if possible.

McKinney was a decent starter at OG, and Hangartner has shown no reason to think he'll suck.

None of those guys will be Pro-Bowl players, but they're not exactly third-string guys. It would be easy enough to upgrade the LG spot and our depth in the draft. I just don't think people realize how bad Fowler/Preston and Dockery were last year. Peters wasn't exactly in top form either. I also think part of the problem was penalties last year. If we can get guys who don't take penalties...I remember Dockery taking several and Peters I believe was reported taking eight penalties. Penalties are almost as bad as a sack.

we're talking about a line full of castoffs and round 5 or lower draftpicks... most of whom were cast aside by their previous team, in some cases "teams". Butler starts on this team, not because he's good, but because there is no one better.

Our line has had a massive hole in it between the tackles for a while. i include butler with that.

[psubills62]

Re: The Bills Offensive Line

we're talking about a line full of castoffs and round 5 or lower draftpicks... most of whom were cast aside by their previous team, in some cases "teams". Butler starts on this team, not because he's good, but because there is no one better.

Our line has had a massive hole in it between the tackles for a while. i include butler with that.

Walker wasn't cast off. Hangartner wasn't cast off (it was reported that they wanted him back, but didn't have the financial means/cap room). Bell wasn't cast off. Butler wasn't a cast off. Chambers has played well at tackle when given the chance. You really trust decisions made by his former team, Cleveland? If you're assuming that they're spot on with their personnel decisions, then I'm glad you're not in our FO.

I get a little bothered that the Bills don't use higher picks on the lines, but wasn't Peters undrafted? Bell's a similar prospect - raw, but extremely athletic. I don't think it's fair to him to not even give him a chance when the camps haven't even started. I'm not saying Bell will be the next Peters, but why not give him a chance to see what he can do at OT?

Butler's a good player. The injuries are a bit of a concern, but that's why we can draft depth, and possibly a starter at LG.

[BillsWin]

Re: The Bills Offensive Line

ok.

Now, Jason Peters probably didn't want to play in buffalo. I won't even argue over that issue...

It's done, he's gone, and we're forced to look at this as our o-line.

LT - Demetrius Bell
LG - Kirk Chambers, Seth McKinney
C - Geoff Hangartner, Marvin Philip
RG - Brad Butler, Brandon Rodd
RT - Langston Walker, Jonathan Scott, Chris Denman

Now... we can argue about how the Bills will shuffle the players. It's possible Walker will go to LT, though i think it's more likely that Chambers will move outside, and it will be either Chambers or Bell at LT.

considering we signed McKinney a week or two ago, i think that signing was in anticipation of the Peter's trade, and we'll see chambers move to LT

that leaves us with a line that will probably look like this...

LT - Bell/Chambers
LG - McKinney
C - Hangartner
RG - Butler (the oft injured)
RT - Walker

Now, I'll be serious. Hangartner may or may not be an upgrade over our Fowler/Preston travesty, in reality we might see Hangartner and McKinney flip positions before the end of training camp (as i recall him being a somewhat acceptable center)...

But lets say the line above is what we end up with going into the season. We just got much worse on the line. Dockery and Peters were downright putrid last year. But they were light years better then the duo we'll be sporting on our QB's blindside this year. Throw in the fact we'll be sporting an unknown at C, and you can't say this looks like a good line.

I'd say there is now room for 3 to 4 draftpicks on that line. LT, LG, C, RG... the lone part of the line that's really NFL quality is Walker.

Butler is one of the bright spots on the line as well. he returned to the lineup and our running game took off.

[BillsWin]

Re: The Bills Offensive Line

and watch film on Butler. he can play.

[Ingtar33]

Re: The Bills Offensive Line

and watch film on Butler. he can play.

I'm not seeing it. and i have.

he's a disaster in short yardage run blocking.

[BADTHINGSMAN]

Re: The Bills Offensive Line

Butler was less injured than Peters the past 2 years. Hangartner will be a huge upgrade over Preston/Fowler. It's amazing how many Panthers fans have good things to say about him, versus the other chumps the Bills signed like Bennie Anderson, Tutan Reyes, and even Melvin Fowler. McKinney can do no worse than the nothing that Dockery provided the past 2 years. So that leaves LT. It will probably come down to Chambers, Bell, a rookie, or as a last resort, flipping Walker over there.

Ive talked to a bunch of Panther fans that are ticked they didnt keep Hangartner. So Im hoping he will be a suprise and play well.

[Michael82]

I usually agree with what you say, Ingtar...but I think you are wrong about Butler. He's actually a pretty good player and one of the only bright spots on our OL. Both Butler and Walker are a solid Right side and part of the reason our backs were so successful running on the right side.