The Bills could have made you billieve if...

[HHURRICANE]

The Bills had a chance to make a run this year but it came down to money.

The Bills had to do very little to really make us belive they were on the right track.

What should have happened:

1) You keep Dockery and Peters and focus on center where the problem existed. We could not get any push up the middle. Peters with a camp and pre-season will play fine in 2009. Dockery is what he is but he is still better than what we are getting. We only really needed to focus on getting a better Center in FA, and than draft behind these guys.

2) Draft or trade for your TE. The Bills know it and they have made it obvious that the TE is not on their roster. It's either trade for a Scheffler or get Cook.

3) Resgin Crowell with a two year deal and again draaft behind him.

4) TO was a good move with the above.

The above would have made our draft meaningful.

All we need to do in the off-season was upgrade Center,and resign Crowell.

Our FO is cheap and stupid and none of your arguments make sense unless the Bills have targeted players that are better at the LG, LT and LB position that had been held by the players above.

And don't tell me any rookie is going to come in and play better.

[HHURRICANE]

I knew i forgot something!!

5) Trade Parrish. The Bills actually are figuring out that you don't make the playoffs with emphasis on special teams only.

[kernowboy]

1) We did focus on Center. We have brought in one of the brightest players who was on another team as depth and had contributed well. We were intelligent not to waste huge amounts on a fading veteran or someone like Brown who'd only played one season at Center but demanded gizzillions.

We also moved on two players that allowed almost 20 sacks last season. You do not reward petulance or poor performance. You do not give in to excessive demands from someone who has only had one very good season, and who metiphorically spat in the face of his team mates and the fans with his greed.

2) We've not had the chance to draft our TE first. Give the front office a chance.

3) Why spend money on an injured player, who's had a history of injuries?

4) Good.

5) You can only trade a player to someone who wants to trade for him. Without Parrish we may have to use starters like McKelvin and McGee and if they get injured on special teams we have a major problem.

[Nighthawk]

HH...you really need to stop starting these threads...it's making you look ignorant. Wait until after the draft and then if they blow it, you have every reason to rip them. Doing so before you even know how the draft turns out is, well, is ignorant.

[HHURRICANE]

1) We did focus on Center. We have brought in one of the brightest players who was on another team as depth and had contributed well. We were intelligent not to waste huge amounts on a fading veteran or someone like Brown who'd only played one season at Center but demanded gizzillions.

We also moved on two players that allowed almost 20 sacks last season. You do not reward petulance or poor performance. You do not give in to excessive demands from someone who has only had one very good season, and who metiphorically spat in the face of his team mates and the fans with his greed.

2) We've not had the chance to draft our TE first. Give the front office a chance.

3) Why spend money on an injured player, who's had a history of injuries?

4) Good.

5) You can only trade a player to someone who wants to trade for him. Without Parrish we may have to use starters like McKelvin and McGee and if they get injured on special teams we have a major problem.

Hangartner had 5 years to be a starter in Carolina and only got those chances when people got injured. I will say that I've heard good things so let's wait and see.

Dockery is certainly up for much debate and if the Bills we are getting rid of him to bring in or promote _________ than I would feell okay with this move.

Subtracting your best player from the roster never is a good thing so try and clump Peters with Dockery. The guy came in without a camp and played next to a guy that is obvioulsy only as good as the players around him.

Crowell was the best FA at LB out there and he was a Bill. His injury was not that bad and it's a very easy fix. There is no reason to believe that he didn't recover and he's been a healthy player his whole career.

Parrish is luxury on special teams that could not play on offense no matter how hard we tried. End of story.

[kernowboy]

The best LB out there in Free Agency were Michael Boley and Bart Scott. If Crowell was so good, why did he only get a one year deal?

Whose fault was it that Peters who was under contract held out in camp and preseason? Whose fault was it that Peters couldn't even bother to keep in shape?

[HHURRICANE]

HH...you really need to stop starting these threads...it's making you look ignorant. Wait until after the draft and then if they blow it, you have every reason to rip them. Doing so before you even know how the draft turns out is, well, ignorant.

The Bills had to do very little to improve greatly. That's the point of the thread. they went in a completely different direction. Instead they ripped the whole thing open, I believe, just to save some money.

You are right that in a week we will know alot better what we have. here's the problem:

I'll have to read all of the insane posts when we draft Oher on how Peters wasn't that good and this guy is taking us to the promised land blah, blah, blah.

Nobody has yet to post one intelligent counter on why Peters and the other move translate to wins. It doesn't. Winning is all that it's about unless you are related to our owner.

I hate losing, I hate losers, and unfortunately I fight both of those tendencies to be a fan of this team. Nine years is long enough.

[FlyingDutchman]

dude i thought you were done with this team and going away...wtf...

[Nighthawk]

The Bills had to do very little to improve greatly. That's the point of the thread. they went in a completely different direction. Instead they ripped the whole thing open, I believe, just to save some money.

You are right that in a week we will know alot better what we have. here's the problem:

I'll have to read all of the insane posts when we draft Oher on how Peters wasn't that good and this guy is taking us to the promised land blah, blah, blah.

Nobody has yet to post one intelligent counter on why Peters and the other move translate to wins. It doesn't. Winning is all that it's about unless you are related to our owner.

I hate losing, I hate losers, and unfortunately I fight both of those tendencies to be a fan of this team. Nine years is long enough.

Well, I don't think you have to worry about hearing about Oher because I don't believe they'll pick a LT at the #11 pick. I think they'll address the defense in round 1 and then grab a OL in the 2nd round. The difference between Oher and the rest of the tackles you can get later in the round or 2nd is not that much. You do realize that good OL have been picked in other rounds then the 1st, don't you? You need to chill out and see what happens. If they f**k it up, trust me, I'll be the first to rip them apart, but right now, I'm excited to see how this thing plays out.

[Dr. Who]

Let's wait till after Football Christmas to see if there's only coal in the stocking.

[ParanoidAndroid]

None of these moves to dump our o-linemen make sense unless they are going to use the draft to build a new one.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Well, I don't think you have to worry about hearing about Oher because I don't believe they'll pick a LT at the #11 pick. I think they'll address the defense in round 1 and then grab a OL in the 2nd round. The difference between Oher and the rest of the tackles you can get later in the round or 2nd is not that much. You do realize that good OL have been picked in other rounds then the 1st, don't you? You need to chill out and see what happens. If they f**k it up, trust me, I'll be the first to rip them apart, but right now, I'm excited to see how this thing plays out.

I hope not. I want 2 of the first 3 picks to be O-line. Buffalo has spent too many middle round picks on O-linemen in recent years to have one of them still on the roster. Since they will not go after the premier FA's at the position, earlier in the draft is where they must go.

[realdealryan]

...if they were "FOR REAL" after beating San Diego last year.

By the way, that game is on NFL Replay today. I'll have some Labatt's and go into fantasy world for a little while.

[feldspar]

I hope not. I want 2 of the first 3 picks to be O-line. Buffalo has spent too many middle round picks on O-linemen in recent years to have one of them still on the roster. Since they will not go after the premier FA's at the position, earlier in the draft is where they must go.

I basically agree with this. Our lines are our biggest needs, but that includes the defensive line, too. We had no pass rush last year, only getting 24 sacks with no single player getting more than 4. That's pathetic. Having Schobel back will help that, but not enough. I think we should go O-line with one of our first-round picks and DE with the other...have value determine which position is picked first. But would you consider a tight end part of the line? Maybe we can pick up a tight end in the second if the value is there. Don't forget about OLB either. We absolutely can't go into the season with Ellison as the starter there.

Also, don't forget about the possibility for trades. The Bills have a lot of ammunition for trades, especially if we can move Kelsay and/or Parrish. I think teams would be smart to wait for Buffalo to cut Kelsay, and I don't agree with trading Parrish, but the fact remains that the possibility is there for us to acquire more draft picks this way. We can also give up a pick or two to acquire somebody else's player.

This is going to be an interesting week.

We need a Defensive End, Left Guard, Left Tackle, Linebacker, Tight End, maybe even a Center or Defensive Tackle. Don't forget either that it's a real possibility that the Bills could shuffle a player or two that they already have on the o-line to a different position...like Walker to Left Tackle...I'd rather not do that, but that's not up to me.

[Nighthawk]

I hope not. I want 2 of the first 3 picks to be O-line. Buffalo has spent too many middle round picks on O-linemen in recent years to have one of them still on the roster. Since they will not go after the premier FA's at the position, earlier in the draft is where they must go.

I understand your wanting them to rebuild that line, but you don't take lesser value then you might be able to get at another position.

[HHURRICANE]

dude i thought you were done with this team and going away...wtf...

For the zillionth time, which I stated in the thread that you conveniently only take what you want from, they have til draft day. And i don't mean just drafting some good players, I mean making some moves that include vets, etc.

As for this board I'll just be like NE39 posting as a fan from another team. Maybe NE or Atlanta. Haven't decided yet. I'm not rooting for losers anymore. Ralph is not my uncle and all he does is line his wallet with good intentioned fan's money.

[FlyingDutchman]

For the zillionth time, which I stated in the thread that you conveniently only take what you want from, they have til draft day. And i don't mean just drafting some good players, I mean making some moves that include vets, etc.

As for this board I'll just be like NE39 posting as a fan from another team. Maybe NE or Atlanta. Haven't decided yet. I'm not rooting for losers anymore. Ralph is not my uncle and all he does is line his wallet with good intentioned fan's money.

great, well nothing is going to happen til draft day with the exception of a possible trade of Parrish for draft picks...so see ya

[X-Era]

The Bills had a chance to make a run this year but it came down to money.

The Bills had to do very little to really make us belive they were on the right track.

What should have happened:

1) You keep Dockery and Peters and focus on center where the problem existed. We could not get any push up the middle. Peters with a camp and pre-season will play fine in 2009. Dockery is what he is but he is still better than what we are getting. We only really needed to focus on getting a better Center in FA, and than draft behind these guys.

2) Draft or trade for your TE. The Bills know it and they have made it obvious that the TE is not on their roster. It's either trade for a Scheffler or get Cook.

3) Resgin Crowell with a two year deal and again draaft behind him.

4) TO was a good move with the above.

The above would have made our draft meaningful.

All we need to do in the off-season was upgrade Center,and resign Crowell.

Our FO is cheap and stupid and none of your arguments make sense unless the Bills have targeted players that are better at the LG, LT and LB position that had been held by the players above.

And don't tell me any rookie is going to come in and play better.

Unfortunately you are really right.

If anyone thinks we can get 3 day one starters out of this draft and that they will play like solid veterans, all you have to do is look at what we got last year from last years picks. Its just that easy.

But now all of the sudden we are super stud drafters that can score 3 or 4 solid day one starters? Hell no.

[FlyingDutchman]

And you seriously just said youd be a fan of NE? dude, go, get the hell out. Just go

[HHURRICANE]

great, well nothing is going to happen til draft day with the exception of a possible trade of Parrish for draft picks...so see ya

You don't think on draft day that we couldn't trade with the Broncos if Sanchez falls to us and pick up Scheffler in some deal?

Maybe Parrish and a pick get's us someone?

If the Bills go into draft day and do nothing but draft than yeah I'm done with this team.

If you think we are going to the playoffs with this roster and a bunch of draft picks than you really are smoking something.

I don't have time to watch losers anymore.

[HHURRICANE]

And you seriously just said youd be a fan of NE? dude, go, get the hell out. Just go

I lived in CT for 7 years and my entire family lives in Mass now. I'm a husky fan and taught at UConn where my daughter wants to go to school. I still have an office up there. Why not?

At least they have an owner that want's to win. I'm not rooting for a team that doesn't want to win.

[FlyingDutchman]

i dont care if you were born at the old foxboro stadium. the fact that you as a supposed bills fan can admit youd root for our cheating divisional rival blow my mind

[mayotm]

I lived in CT for 7 years and my entire family lives in Mass now. I'm a husky fan and taught at UConn where my daughter wants to go to school. I still have an office up there. Why not?

At least they have an owner that want's to win. I'm not rooting for a team that doesn't want to win.You sure are taking your time leaving.

[HHURRICANE]

i dont care if you were born at the old foxboro stadium. the fact that you as a supposed bills fan can admit youd root for our cheating divisional rival blow my mind

Would you continue to support a freind that kept stealing from you?

The TO signing has now become the biggest marketing gimmack in the history of this organization.

Dutchman, what have the Bills done that actually make you believe that they are interested in winning?

Moving a game to Toronto?

Trading away their best player?

Resigning a coach that hasn't had a winning record here?

Not paying for a real GM?

There's a difference between being a fan and being taken advantage of. I'm not spending money or wasting my time on a team that's interested in keeping Ralph wealthy. The guy is 90 years old and he can't cough up some bucks to try and get us a chamionship?

[Mitchell55]

Would you continue to support a freind that kept stealing from you?

The TO signing has now become the biggest marketing gimmack in the history of this organization.

Dutchman, what have the Bills done that actually make you believe that they are interested in winning?

Moving a game to Toronto?

Trading away their best player?

Resigning a coach that hasn't had a winning record here?

Not paying for a real GM?

There's a difference between being a fan and being taken advantage of. I'm not spending money or wasting my time on a team that's interested in keeping Ralph wealthy. The guy is 90 years old and he can't cough up some bucks to try and get us a chamionship?



We signed a HOF reciever. Got rid of a player who didnt want to be here and got 3 picks for him. Got rid of or in the process of getting rid of all our garbage.

[HHURRICANE]

We signed a HOF reciever. Got rid of a player who didnt want to be here and got 3 picks for him. Got rid of or in the process of getting rid of all our garbage.

1 year contract for a 35 year old WR. Peters wanted to be here but we didn't want to pay him 10 million a year. Get your facts straight. We now have to use one of the picks on OT most likely so we netted nothing.

[X-Era]

We signed a HOF reciever. Got rid of a player who didnt want to be here and got 3 picks for him. Got rid of or in the process of getting rid of all our garbage.

My problem isnt with us getting rid of players per say... its with how we get an UPGRADE in return.

I just cant see this team being better next year even if we have a stellar draft. I hope Im wrong.

[HHURRICANE]

My problem isnt with us getting rid of players per say... its with how we get an UPGRADE in return.

I just cant see this team being better next year even if we have a stellar draft. I hope Im wrong.

Thank you. Exactly. The team doesn't do a thing to get better just sell tickets.

[X-Era]

1 year contract for a 35 year old WR. Peters wanted to be here but we didn't want to pay him 10 million a year. Get your facts straight. We now have to use one of the picks on OT most likely so we netted nothing.

Actually, most will be convinced that we will use a day one pick on an OT now, I wont be.

I could very easily see us skipping OT all together and actually kind of hope that happens. If we could make a undrafted TE into a pro-bowl LT, why cant we do it with Bell?

[FlyingDutchman]

Would you continue to support a freind that kept stealing from you? its not stealing. this is a form of entertainment. stop being so dramatic and acting like the bills owe you something

The TO signing has now become the biggest marketing gimmack in the history of this organization. this i actually agree with somewhat, but how does this mean the bills dont want to win

Dutchman, what have the Bills done that actually make you believe that they are interested in winning?

Moving a game to Toronto? as much as I think this sucks also, if its necessary for the bills to stay long term in Buffalo then ill take it. you have to realize what team we root for and the market it carries. ill take 1 game as opposed to 8 in Toronto

Trading away their best player?
stop taking everything at just face value with this trade. it wasnt like the bills just traded away their best player for s#$*s and giggles. again stop being so dramatic. this is a business and tough decisions have to be made. we can get into a whole arguement about this again, but peters did not deserve that kind of money after the way he played. case freakin closed. dont act like he wasnt being a stubborn little puke ever since last year. he didnt want to be here. we were never going to over pay him. either we move on with him now, or in two years when his contract is up. at least we got value for him
Resigning a coach that hasn't had a winning record here? at the time they signed him we looked like we were starting to turn the corner. we started off hot. you can bet anything he'll be gone if he doesnt improve this year.

Not paying for a real GM?

There's a difference between being a fan and being taken advantage of. I'm not spending money or wasting my time on a team that's interested in keeping Ralph wealthy. The guy is 90 years old and he can't cough up some bucks to try and get us a chamionship?
again stop being so dramatic. how are you being taken advantage of. bc you sit on your ass and watch football and dont like the results? poor you. you act like every good free agent wants to play here, and we're just idiots who dont open our wallets. it was apparent when you just didnt understand why the bills didnt just trade for peppers and sign jason taylor. you have NO CLUE to the complexities of running a football team. Especially a small market team that is struggling to survive in a not so appealing area

[HHURRICANE]

Dutchman your actually a decent poster if you don't resort to faceless attacks.

The Bills are entertainment, just like this site. If Springsteen starts losing his voice and giving crappy concerts do you keep paying to go? Of course not.

The Bills are tied into the community. Your tax dollars go towards the stadium so you have a vested interest that goes beyond a concert. Maybe Peters is not worth 10 million a year (no way to know for sure) but everyone acts like that money will go somewhere else but it never does. We were second to last on cap spending but Ralph resides in the the top 10 for net income. Other owner have businesses that pay their bills so they can focus on winning.

I don't think you can justify 9 years without makinng the playoffs. I also believe that Ralph has done more to damage the community with his small market argument than help it. The fans still buy tickets and if he raised prices the fans would pay it. The funny part is that if he does raise prices and the fans do pay them it makes the team that much harder to sell and I think that's his plan.

[HHURRICANE]

Dutchman your actually a decent poster if you don't resort to faceless attacks.

The Bills are entertainment, just like this site. If Springsteen starts losing his voice and giving crappy concerts do you keep paying to go? Of course not.

The Bills are tied into the community. Your tax dollars go towards the stadium so you have a vested interest that goes beyond a concert. Maybe Peters is not worth 10 million a year (no way to know for sure) but everyone acts like that money will go somewhere else but it never does. We were second to last on cap spending but Ralph resides in the the top 10 for net income. Other owner have businesses that pay their bills so they can focus on winning.

I don't think you can justify 9 years without makinng the playoffs. I also believe that Ralph has done more to damage the community with his small market argument than help it. The fans still buy tickets and if he raised prices the fans would pay it. The funny part is that if he does raise prices and the fans do pay them it makes the team that much harder to sell and I think that's his plan.

To clarify on ticket prices. i believe Ralph knows the team is worth more in LA than Buffalo. He justifies the sale to a pissed community by saying they couldn't support it. Ralph isn't the saint he'd like everyone to think he is.

[Mitchell55]

1 year contract for a 35 year old WR. Peters wanted to be here but we didn't want to pay him 10 million a year. Get your facts straight. We now have to use one of the picks on OT most likely so we netted nothing.


Ive read about 8 reports saying we offered him 10 million. Only 1 person has said we only gave him 8 million and this is the one you are basing everything on.

[HHURRICANE]

Ive read about 8 reports saying we offered him 10 million. Only 1 person has said we only gave him 8 million and this is the one you are basing everything on.

Show me a credible report other than some website being produced in someone's basement. NFL on Sirrius isn't usually reporting garbage so I'll accept 8 million.

The Bills offered 10 million and he turned it down? Why? Because all of a sudden he hates the Bills? He just said he was surprised that he got traded.

[kernowboy]

I've not heard anything about Peters saying he wanted to stay.

In fact he said in his interview, he thought about his contract while he should have been thinking about doing his job.

The great Bruce Smith missed camp after camp over contract disputes but always turned up in shape and raring to go.

Peters is so committed to football he turned up a fat overweight slob, performed poorly, and then wanted the best deal in the league which he hadn't earnt. He even implies he's more interested in getting his ass to the ProBowl than his team to the playoffs.

Evans or Lynch are both better players than Peters and Pozluzny is the best team player of the lot.

We are a better team without last years Peters.

[Mitchell55]

Show me a credible report other than some website being produced in someone's basement. NFL on Sirrius isn't usually reporting garbage so I'll accept 8 million.

The Bills offered 10 million and he turned it down? Why? Because all of a sudden he hates the Bills? He just said he was surprised that he got traded.



He also said the whole thing was not about money. So either he hated it here and wanted to be traded for that purpose which is why he always skipped practice, or he wanted a new contract.

[CoolBreeze]

The Bills had to do very little to improve greatly. That's the point of the thread. they went in a completely different direction. Instead they ripped the whole thing open, I believe, just to save some money.

You are right that in a week we will know alot better what we have. here's the problem:

I'll have to read all of the insane posts when we draft Oher on how Peters wasn't that good and this guy is taking us to the promised land blah, blah, blah.

Nobody has yet to post one intelligent counter on why Peters and the other move translate to wins. It doesn't. Winning is all that it's about unless you are related to our owner.

I hate losing, I hate losers, and unfortunately I fight both of those tendencies to be a fan of this team. Nine years is long enough.

You hate losing and losers....Your not actually losing, when your not actually on the "Team". Your blinded, by thinking that these players, management and other fans care what you think. Nobody cares anymore than what I think. Until you realize this game is all about money(that is, takiing your money) the better off you will be. I don't give any money to the Bills or the NFL, so that way I'm not bitter when they lose. One quote has always stuck with me... It came from former LT John Fina, when walking off the filed, after another terrible performance, when fans where heckling him and he said something to the effectm " Yeah, I'm still rich are you?" Dude, they don't care...

[Mike]

To HH & Everyone else,
After the Bills got TO things looked a little bit more promissing on the offensive side of the ball.
But then to get rid of your whole left side of the line and center really takes the Bills back 5 or 6 steps.
I can not see them being able to pass or run well, and I think the offense this year will be worse then last year.
The WR may get open, but to no avail if we Edwards does not have the time to get them the ball.
It is foolish to think that we can replace all three vacated line spots and improve, especially considering the fact that the Bills have not been able to draft well.
Now throw in the fact that we will need to spend picks addressing Oline oppose to defense, our defense will not have the chance to improve.

Conlcusion, next year's team will be worse than this years team!

[Mike]

I once heard a GM say that in the NFL you want to be elite in one of two ways:
be elite in a good way and always compete for a chapionmship
or
be elite in a bad way, and have a top selection in the draft.
Maybe, the Bills are the doing the later, putting themseleves in this position so
they can be elite in a bad way and thus have a better chance of improving.

[Mike]

Also, Cash to Cap is a great way to save money!!! this type of philosophy does
not allow you to sign and keep elite talent that want to be compinsated.
Cash
to cap will always result in a average -at best- football team