I have a problem

[kid mickey]

With anybody who sees the Bills addressing defense with the first pick when it was ranked 14th last year. Does anybody else see this logic? When you lose basically your entire OL and you already have one of the worst offenses in football you would think the smart way to go would be drafting guys that help your offense. You sign T.O and Rhodes Marshawn is gone for three games and you let go of Dockery, you trade Peters the Defense is still the same as last year and still people think we should be addressing a DE with the first pick. Are you serious? I mean do you want to get Trent Edwards killed? If the Bills don't take an OT with the 11th pick I am going to really question wtf the front office is doing. You can't honestly expect a 7th round draft choice who didn't play elite talent to play LT for you this year. Maybe right tackle. Maybe I am incorrect in thinking that this offense is gonna be horrible if you don't step up to the plate and get some nasty guys to block on this line. Hey what do I know though. I'm just a fan.

[kernowboy]

Because although we were statistically good, there were many problems. We were very poor in sack totals, we gave up 120yds per game on the ground too easily. Teams were able to manage the clock against us because we couldn't get opposition offences off the field.

The notion behind going defence first is to get a DE who can get at their QB. Kelsay/Denney combined for only 6 sacks and the idea is with a sack merchant opposite Schobel both can make more plays.

At Linebacker, although we are stopping the run, we are stopping it to far behind the field allowing the opposition to more easily move the chains.

By sacking the opposition QB and putting under more pressure, they have face far more 3rd and longs allowing us to turn the ball over more frequently and getting the ball to our offence. Their QB will also be pressurised into more incompletions.

No matter how good our LT might be, he's useless sat on the bench, if our defence cannot get their QB off the field.

[Ingtar33]

14th in the league doesn't win superbowls.

I won't be happy with the defense until we're top 5

[Jan Reimers]

We had no pass rush, and teams don't win consistently without a pass rush.

There is real danger in putting too much emphasis on statistics, and not on what your eyes and brain clearly tell you.

[justasportsfan]

Having a great D can also be a great offensive weapon. Getting to the qb is a weapon.With Brady back, we need to get better especially in the trenches.

[kid mickey]

Wow a whole bunch of defensive supporters come on here. Wanna know what my eyes and brain tell me? This offense looked bad, played bad, ranked very bad and just lost their line. I guess my eyes and brain work okay. I keep wondering why our defense did well enough to keep this team in games and we got no offensive output. I guess all those three and outs just stuck in my head. I guess the 11 Td's that Trent Edwards put up are stuck in my head. I guess Marshawn barely getting 1100 yards is stuck in my head. I guess Evans three Tds are stuck in my head. I guess the last game of the year when we played the Pats and couldn't score is stuck in my head. I think all you guys who want to beef up this defense when we need offense so bad are correct. I just love the idea of Trent Edwards going to down. I love the idea of more three and outs. I love the idea of Fitzpatrick going in for Trent. I just love the idea that we face a whole bunch of 3-4 teams that have huge effing players in the front 7. I love it so much I am gonna take a guy who isn't going to see the field because Schobel and Kelsay are on the roster with my first pick. I love it so much that I am willing to risk the safety of my quarterback and I am willing to risk T.O imploding because nobody can get him the ball. Thanks guys you really made a billiever out of me. NOT!!!

[madness]

As our lines stands right now, LW-KC-GH-BB-DB could have actually outplayed the Steelers OL last year* but the Steelers didn't let their weaknesses overcome their strength.... defense.

*Credit is due though to their OL during their playoff run. They really pulled together when the team needed it the most.

I'm not crazy about most of the DE's in this draft but if Raji is there, you take him.

[alohabillsfan]

Kid Mickey, don't bother, it will only hurt your head with this group

[ddaryl]

14th in the league doesn't win superbowls.

I won't be happy with the defense until we're top 5

and I won't be happy with our offense until we are at least top 15....


bottom line is our D didn't allow alot of points on the board, something a ball control Offense can help reduce and then counter by scoring more often

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/buf
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=yspscbrdbg><TD class=ysptblhdr height=18>2008 Team Stats (Game averages)</TD></TR><TR><TD class=ysptblbdr2><TABLE class=yspwhitebg cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=ysptblthbody1><TD class=yspdetailttl width="29%" height=18> </TD><TD class=yspdetailttl align=right width="13%">Pts</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl align=right width="19%">Yds</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl align=right width="19%">Pass</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl align=right width="19%">Rush</TD><TD width="1%"> </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1><TD class=yspscores> Offense</TD><TD class=yspscores align=right>21.0</TD><TD class=yspscores align=right>305.1</TD><TD class=yspscores align=right>190.0</TD><TD class=yspscores align=right>115.1</TD><TD width="1%"> </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2><TD class=yspscores> Defense</TD><TD class=yspscores align=right>21.4</TD><TD class=yspscores align=right>326.1</TD><TD class=yspscores align=right>204.4</TD><TD class=yspscores align=right>121.6</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


Our D held up decently. SO if we field a powerhouse line of scrimmage controlling, power running capable OL points allowed on D would go down and points scored would go up IMO.

Leave our OL in the present shape as it is now and we will see more 3 and outs, and our D being on the field more often and getting tired which means the D gives up more points and the O scores less.


We need OL over D IMO... We have the same D as last year, we have a much weaker OL then last year at this point

[Jan Reimers]

No pass rush, no consistent success. We need a stud DE and OLB, then we can use our next seven picks on offense.

[kid mickey]

We need an OL to protect the QB and make holes for the running back.

[Jan Reimers]

We have a deep WR corps headed by TO and Lee, 3 very good RBs, and a promising young QB. That's a pretty good start, at least among the skill players. Even assuming that Bell, Fine and Chambers are not ready to start (and I would think that one, and possibly two, of them will develop) we don't need that much - or not so much that we should ignore our defensive needs.

[ddaryl]

No pass rush, no consistent success. We need a stud DE and OLB, then we can use our next seven picks on offense.

I have 0 faith in our OL if we do not get at least one immediate starter on the OL from the draft.

The only way trading Peters and releasing Dockery Folwer and Preston gets compensated is if we improve our OL with starting caliber players. Right now the majority of our OL is nothing more then depth players penciled in as starters.


and as I mentioned above the D did a semi good job of keeping other teams in check on the scoreboard. SO since we invested in TO and we have Evans plus we have a stable of very good RB's it doesn't make much sense at all to have a sub standard OL. Our O is poised to breakout if we have a solid OL. If our OL is average it won;t matter how many DE's we draft the D is going to be out of gas in the 4th quarter because the O will be going 3 and out often.


BUT It really depends on value. If a DE is graded higher then the remaining T at #11 we take the DE, but I bet a few T's grade higher then the DE's we will have to choose from at #11.

[kernowboy]

We need an OL to protect the QB and make holes for the running back.

says the fan wanting to cut Langston Walker ROFL

[Mike]

what will happen -baring the improbable- is quite obvious... if you thought that
Buffalos' offense was bad last year, wait until this year! I have been saying

this sinse the Peter's trade... no oline = no offense

Most likely Trend Get injured in the first 4 games of the seas, and Bufflao has a

top 5 pic in next years draft...

we take a QB ... maybe Bradford...

We do not have elite talent on any side of the ball... we have no superstars on this team... and if we continue to draft in the middle of the pacck 10-20 we will stay at this level for a long time....

[mchurchfie]

Great Defenses win championships!

[kid mickey]

says the fan wanting to cut Langston Walker ROFL

Don't put words in my mouth. I said it was a surprise cut. Never called for cutting him. I believe my conjecture was if Bell was to see the field at RT and we drafted a LT first what would happen to Walker. Which was why he was my surprise cut.

[Oaf]

Kidmickey, I may disagree with you, but that's a hell of a mock in your sig.

Michael Oher OT Ole Miss
Alex Mack OG/C Cal
Michael Johnson DE Georgia Tech
Marcus Freeman OLB Ohio State
Chase Coffman TE Missouri
Rashad Johnson S Alabama
Vance Walker DT Georgia Tech
Dallas Reynolds C BYU
Dan Gronkowski TE Maryland

That would be a dream for this team. I would even go as far as hopping on the playoff bandwagon with that. That is 4 or even 5 starters right there! That being said, I say Freeman goes earlier.

[Jan Reimers]

what will happen -baring the improbable- is quite obvious... if you thought that
Buffalos' offense was bad last year, wait until this year! I have been saying

this sinse the Peter's trade... no oline = no offense

Most likely Trend Get injured in the first 4 games of the seas, and Bufflao has a

top 5 pic in next years draft...

we take a QB ... maybe Bradford...

We do not have elite talent on any side of the ball... we have no superstars on this team... and if we continue to draft in the middle of the pacck 10-20 we will stay at this level for a long time....
Let's see. . .we upgraded the C position with Hangartner and have our 2 starters - Walker and Butler - coming back on the right side, and that side was stronger than the left last year. Dockery was a complete waste, so he is easily replacable.

So losing Peters is the end of the world as we know it. Not

[ddaryl]

Great Defenses win championships!

that's not completley true.


http://www.advancednflstats.com/2008/01/does-defense-win-championships.html


read this

I'll just quote the last paragraph


So when looking at the NFL as a whole, offense and defense balances symmetrically. But when focusing on the right tails of performance, where playoff teams come from, we see that great offenses out-pace equally great defenses.

[kid mickey]

Let's see. . .we upgraded the C position with Hangartner and have our 2 starters - Walker and Butler - coming back on the right side, and that side was stronger than the left last year. Dockery was a complete waste, so he is easily replacable.

So losing Peters is the end of the world as we know it. Not

Yea uhm guy for a guy who's been a fan for 50 years you should be able to SEE a little more clearly that we have no OL. A guy who has been a career back-up at C is about to be our starting center. Now I do like the guy, but the thing is he has no help whatsoever on the left side of the line. No LG and no LT. You have a wonderful idea for when we get guys to protect Trent Edwards? If you don't get help on this line its gonna be a long year. So go ahead waste picks on situational players. I just can't wait until every one of you guys are crying because that guy isn't on the field and Edwards is in the hospital.

[SquishDaFish]

I have a problem too. Your posting

[Philagape]

Let's see. . .we upgraded the C position with Hangartner and have our 2 starters - Walker and Butler - coming back on the right side, and that side was stronger than the left last year. Dockery was a complete waste, so he is easily replacable.

So losing Peters is the end of the world as we know it. Not

First, I'll wait and see what Hangartner does, but Dockery is "easily replacable" with what? Sure, it's easy to replace crap with crap. It's harder to replace it with a playoff-caliber line. So right now the left side of the line -- the QB's blind side -- is in the hands of Bell, Chambers and McKinney. Plus any rookies. Our saviors!!!

[X-Era]

With anybody who sees the Bills addressing defense with the first pick when it was ranked 14th last year. Does anybody else see this logic? When you lose basically your entire OL and you already have one of the worst offenses in football you would think the smart way to go would be drafting guys that help your offense. You sign T.O and Rhodes Marshawn is gone for three games and you let go of Dockery, you trade Peters the Defense is still the same as last year and still people think we should be addressing a DE with the first pick. Are you serious? I mean do you want to get Trent Edwards killed? If the Bills don't take an OT with the 11th pick I am going to really question wtf the front office is doing. You can't honestly expect a 7th round draft choice who didn't play elite talent to play LT for you this year. Maybe right tackle. Maybe I am incorrect in thinking that this offense is gonna be horrible if you don't step up to the plate and get some nasty guys to block on this line. Hey what do I know though. I'm just a fan.

Supposedly we never made the Peters move assuming that we would start a rookie at LT. We made that move with the thought that Walker starts at LT now.

And at that point, with a fairly decent option at LT...

No I don't think we have to spend our 11 pick on a OL, nor our 28.

So yes, I think a pass rusher or OLB is a very likely and intelligent plan for our #11 pick.

[kid mickey]

I really can't see it. All I can see the Bills doing with the 11th pick right now is getting an OT. You can't ignore the fact that this line is in shambles. If you are gonna draft guys to start right away you gotta get your big men. While OLB is a need you can't sit back and watch guys like Oher or Smith pass you by. You have to make a smart choice. The smartest choice for the Bills is OT. With OG/C high on the list as well 28 is right in line with a guy like Alex Mack. You hit those two then I don't care what happens with the rest of the draft. I will be satisfied that the Bills are committed to keeping Edwards safe.

[X-Era]

I really can't see it. All I can see the Bills doing with the 11th pick right now is getting an OT. You can't ignore the fact that this line is in shambles. If you are gonna draft guys to start right away you gotta get your big men. While OLB is a need you can't sit back and watch guys like Oher or Smith pass you by. You have to make a smart choice. The smartest choice for the Bills is OT. With OG/C high on the list as well 28 is right in line with a guy like Alex Mack. You hit those two then I don't care what happens with the rest of the draft. I will be satisfied that the Bills are committed to keeping Edwards safe.

You could argue that you get just as many busts at OT as any other position. You could argue that it usually takes many years for an OT to develop. You could argue that any OT for the Bills has to go up against very good pass rushers in the AFC East. And you could argue that we have a viable option in Walker.

Add all of that up and you can see that it isnt a lock for an OT at 11.

[kid mickey]

You could argue that Langston Walker did well against crappy teams as well. You could argue that if you put Langston Walker up against guys that were really quick off the edge that he would get burned a lot more than Peters. You could also argue that Walker no matter how good he is could never be a dominant LT in this league. He found a home at RT. Why would you put him in a position where he is less likely to succeed? Any of the top four tackles coming into the NFL draft this year are better than Walker.

[Mad Bomber]

14th in the league doesn't win superbowls.

I won't be happy with the defense until we're top 5
I hear you, brother.

The problem was that we were 25th in offense....

[kid mickey]

I hear you, brother.

The problem was that we were 25th in offense....

I like it. Somebody who sees that offense is a problem.

[Ingtar33]

Wow a whole bunch of defensive supporters come on here. Wanna know what my eyes and brain tell me? This offense looked bad, played bad, ranked very bad and just lost their line. I guess my eyes and brain work okay. I keep wondering why our defense did well enough to keep this team in games and we got no offensive output. I guess all those three and outs just stuck in my head. I guess the 11 Td's that Trent Edwards put up are stuck in my head. I guess Marshawn barely getting 1100 yards is stuck in my head. I guess Evans three Tds are stuck in my head. I guess the last game of the year when we played the Pats and couldn't score is stuck in my head. I think all you guys who want to beef up this defense when we need offense so bad are correct. I just love the idea of Trent Edwards going to down. I love the idea of more three and outs. I love the idea of Fitzpatrick going in for Trent. I just love the idea that we face a whole bunch of 3-4 teams that have huge effing players in the front 7. I love it so much I am gonna take a guy who isn't going to see the field because Schobel and Kelsay are on the roster with my first pick. I love it so much that I am willing to risk the safety of my quarterback and I am willing to risk T.O imploding because nobody can get him the ball. Thanks guys you really made a billiever out of me. NOT!!!


do you think my post is claiming the Bills have a superbowl quality Offense? not at all. I was responding to your point that 14th overal was good enough for the defense. I disagree.

[feldspar]

I believe the Bills defense had something like 24 total sacks last year, with no single player having more than 4. That's pathetic.

[SABURZFAN]

14th in the league doesn't win superbowls.

I won't be happy with the defense until we're top 5


that won't happen overnight but i'd be happy with a playoff appearance first.

[SeatownBillsFan21]

Were we watching the same D last season if so you and i both know we had NO F****** pass rush it was pathetic we will go DL at 11 and LB at 28. D wins championships 14 overall is still 7-9.

[kid mickey]

Yep I have a feeling a lot of guys on here are gonna be really disappointed when we hit the OL hard with the first two picks. I won't be on that list obviously, but so many of you guys are gonna be upset about it.

[SABURZFAN]

Yep I have a feeling a lot of guys on here are gonna be really disappointed when we hit the OL hard with the first two picks. I won't be on that list obviously, but so many of you guys are gonna be upset about it.


if they went Oher, Mack, and Robinson with their first THREE picks, i'd be happy.

[Mr. Pink]

With anybody who sees the Bills addressing defense with the first pick when it was ranked 14th last year. Does anybody else see this logic? When you lose basically your entire OL and you already have one of the worst offenses in football you would think the smart way to go would be drafting guys that help your offense. You sign T.O and Rhodes Marshawn is gone for three games and you let go of Dockery, you trade Peters the Defense is still the same as last year and still people think we should be addressing a DE with the first pick. Are you serious? I mean do you want to get Trent Edwards killed? If the Bills don't take an OT with the 11th pick I am going to really question wtf the front office is doing. You can't honestly expect a 7th round draft choice who didn't play elite talent to play LT for you this year. Maybe right tackle. Maybe I am incorrect in thinking that this offense is gonna be horrible if you don't step up to the plate and get some nasty guys to block on this line. Hey what do I know though. I'm just a fan.

Langston Walker outperformed Jason Peters last season at LT.

Guess who's gonna play LT this coming season? Langston Walker.

Drafting a tackle with the 11th overall pick would be a HUGE reach as the top tackles are going to be off the board by the time we pick.

You don't just make picks based on need, you make picks based on ANYONE who makes your team better and no, not just in the short term.

You do realize that there are ways to hide weaknesses in your o-line's ability right? Blocking schemes, designed rollouts, moving the pocket, doubling, zone blocking, etc...

Just because we lost the "big name media hyped" money grubber on the line, doesn't mean we have to go out and automatically draft a guy in Rd 1 to replace him.

[thenry20]

With the Peters trade, I really see us taking a LG or LT first now and OLB second.