Someone please explain Robert Ayers...

[Tatonka]

I have posted it in several different threads and yet to see a real answer as to what it is that has people excited over Robert Ayers, the DE from Tennessee.

For the life of me I can't understand why he should be considered a 1st round prospect. It appears to me that he is 100% potential and 0% production.

He was not a starter at Tennessee until last year. A lot of that, by his own admission, was due to his lack of maturity. Once he became a starter last year, he finished the season with 3.5 sacks. Per Gill Brandt on Sirius, 3 of those sacks came on 3rd downs where he slid inside and played tackle, so that is .5 sacks in an entire season for a starting defensive end.

I know he is strong.. i know he is fast.. but he is no where near a finished product. if you think we will get any more production out of him that ellis got last year, your expectations are too high. he couldnt produce at all at the college level as a pass rusher.

He did well against the run, as shown by his 15.5 tackles for a loss, but i just can not see how this guy warrants a 1st round pick. and before you say, every pick is based on potential, i am aware of that. but most of these guys have some stats to back that up.. every guy in the 1st round that i can see has some major production to show for their time as a starter.. but ayers just doesnt have the production that i want from a DE that is supposed to be the savior.

at least even Maybin, who only had 1 year of production, was a beast for 1 year.. i dont think i would be thrilled with maybin at 11, but god, at least he has some sacks, which are pretty important for a defensive end that is supposed to help with the pass rush.

it just seems like ayers had a good senior bowl and they kept showing the video of him owning an off balance LT in practice and throwing him to the ground and all the sudden he is flying up the boards. that spells disaster to me.

so can the people that keep saying they would be fine with an ayers pick please chime in? i am really looking for someone to make me understand why he would be a good pick, because i am sure he will be our pick, since i would hate it so much.

[Mahdi]

Re: Someone please explain Robert Ayers...

I have posted it in several different threads and yet to see a real answer as to what it is that has people excited over Robert Ayers, the DE from Tennessee.

For the life of me I can't understand why he should be considered a 1st round prospect. It appears to me that he is 100% potential and 0% production.

He was not a starter at Tennessee until last year. A lot of that, by his own admission, was due to his lack of maturity. Once he became a starter last year, he finished the season with 3.5 sacks. Per Gill Brandt on Sirius, 3 of those sacks came on 3rd downs where he slid inside and played tackle, so that is .5 sacks in an entire season for a starting defensive end.

I know he is strong.. i know he is fast.. but he is no where near a finished product. if you think we will get any more production out of him that ellis got last year, your expectations are too high. he couldnt produce at all at the college level as a pass rusher.

He did well against the run, as shown by his 15.5 tackles for a loss, but i just can not see how this guy warrants a 1st round pick. and before you say, every pick is based on potential, i am aware of that. but most of these guys have some stats to back that up.. every guy in the 1st round that i can see has some major production to show for their time as a starter.. but ayers just doesnt have the production that i want from a DE that is supposed to be the savior.

at least even Maybin, who only had 1 year of production, was a beast for 1 year.. i dont think i would be thrilled with maybin at 11, but god, at least he has some sacks, which are pretty important for a defensive end that is supposed to help with the pass rush.

it just seems like ayers had a good senior bowl and they kept showing the video of him owning an off balance LT in practice and throwing him to the ground and all the sudden he is flying up the boards. that spells disaster to me.

so can the people that keep saying they would be fine with an ayers pick please chime in? i am really looking for someone to make me understand why he would be a good pick, because i am sure he will be our pick, since i would hate it so much.

I think scouts like him because he is a football player. He has great hand usage, holds the edge probably better than any DE in the draft, has the speed to boot. His football IQ is high, very high, he slides down the LOS very well to make plays on the other end of the line. As you said he can slide in to the DT spot and create pressure from there.

His production is a question mark of course but I think scouts look at his tape and see a guy who combines speed, power, agility, hand usage, and figure that with more talent around him and NFL coaching he can be a star.

[kernowboy]

Re: Someone please explain Robert Ayers...

err.... I'm not sure.

[Tatonka]

Re: Someone please explain Robert Ayers...

if he is a football player and has great hand usage and great speed, how come it didn't translate to any production at all?

i mean the guy you just explained sounds great.. and you would expect to see TONS of production from a guy that is so smart and fast and strong.. a guy with so many moves and understands hand placement, ect..

where is the production? or better yet.. since there obviously is no production, what is the reason there is no production with all these skills he is said to possess.

since he couldnt beat a lot of college left tackles that will never play a down in the nfl, how is he supposed to beat a professional?

[venis2k1]

Re: Someone please explain Robert Ayers...

Im not sure id take Ayers in the second round, let alone at 11. I love SEC kids, but generally shy away from one year wonders, especially kids that didnt produce in their one year. We are overpaying enough 3 sack DEs on this roster already.

[Tatonka]

Re: Someone please explain Robert Ayers...

venis, that is my point exactly. do we want another kelsay? that is what he looks like to me.

[Jan Reimers]

Re: Someone please explain Robert Ayers...

Given our long term lack of success, I'm not looking for prospects or projects with our first day picks. I'm looking for productivity. Immediately.

[psubills62]

Re: Someone please explain Robert Ayers...

I have posted it in several different threads and yet to see a real answer as to what it is that has people excited over Robert Ayers, the DE from Tennessee.

For the life of me I can't understand why he should be considered a 1st round prospect. It appears to me that he is 100% potential and 0% production.

He was not a starter at Tennessee until last year. A lot of that, by his own admission, was due to his lack of maturity. Once he became a starter last year, he finished the season with 3.5 sacks. Per Gill Brandt on Sirius, 3 of those sacks came on 3rd downs where he slid inside and played tackle, so that is .5 sacks in an entire season for a starting defensive end.

I know he is strong.. i know he is fast.. but he is no where near a finished product. if you think we will get any more production out of him that ellis got last year, your expectations are too high. he couldnt produce at all at the college level as a pass rusher.

He did well against the run, as shown by his 15.5 tackles for a loss, but i just can not see how this guy warrants a 1st round pick. and before you say, every pick is based on potential, i am aware of that. but most of these guys have some stats to back that up.. every guy in the 1st round that i can see has some major production to show for their time as a starter.. but ayers just doesnt have the production that i want from a DE that is supposed to be the savior.

at least even Maybin, who only had 1 year of production, was a beast for 1 year.. i dont think i would be thrilled with maybin at 11, but god, at least he has some sacks, which are pretty important for a defensive end that is supposed to help with the pass rush.

it just seems like ayers had a good senior bowl and they kept showing the video of him owning an off balance LT in practice and throwing him to the ground and all the sudden he is flying up the boards. that spells disaster to me.

so can the people that keep saying they would be fine with an ayers pick please chime in? i am really looking for someone to make me understand why he would be a good pick, because i am sure he will be our pick, since i would hate it so much.

First off, Ayers is not 0% production. You're only looking at one number - sacks. He had 12.5 TFL in the running game, which is REALLY good as a DE in college. That means he's very mature in the run game and can handle his own.

Did he get a lot of sacks in college? No, he didn't. That is his main weak area, but the things that he has to learn about pass-rushing (primarily repertoire and technique) can easily be taught. Supposedly our new DL coach Bob Sanders is good at develop pass-rushers.

Maybe you should read this article:

http://jac.scout.com/a.z?s=119&p=2&c=815692

He explains it better than I ever could. And he called it back in November, when no one was talking about Ayers at all.

[yordad]

Re: Someone please explain Robert Ayers...

it just seems like ayers had a good senior bowl and they kept showing the video of him owning an off balance LT in practice and throwing him to the ground and all the sudden he is flying up the boards. that spells disaster to me.

I would be intrested in that vid.

[Mahdi]

Re: Someone please explain Robert Ayers...

if he is a football player and has great hand usage and great speed, how come it didn't translate to any production at all?

i mean the guy you just explained sounds great.. and you would expect to see TONS of production from a guy that is so smart and fast and strong.. a guy with so many moves and understands hand placement, ect..

where is the production? or better yet.. since there obviously is no production, what is the reason there is no production with all these skills he is said to possess.

since he couldnt beat a lot of college left tackles that will never play a down in the nfl, how is he supposed to beat a professional?

I cant answer that.

But he does have all those qualities, so I guess decision makers will have to come up with the reason for themselves. I really dont have enough tape to come up with a reason why but he has satisfied Mayock to no end, thats good enough for me.

[Tatonka]

Re: Someone please explain Robert Ayers...

great.. ayers plays the run well.. kelsay is no slouch against the run.. he just sucks as a pass rusher.. we are trying to draft a defensive end that can RUSH THE PASSER because that is our main weakness.. for a team that sucked at getting the quarterback last year.. i could give a rats ass about how well a defensive end plays the run.. we can put a defensive tackle at end if that is all we are worried about.

basically what your saying is that rushing the passer is a huge weakness for ayers and that he will have to learn to do it.. OR we could take one of MANY other defensive ends that already know how to do it and not have to wait a year or two while learn how to play the position?

connor barwin has only been playing defensive end for 1 year total and the guy tripled ayers production.

yeah, im just looking at sacks because what we are talking about is needing a sack artist.. a guy that can get pressure.. otherwise we mine as well keep kelsay.

[Tatonka]

Re: Someone please explain Robert Ayers...

I would be intrested in that vid.

i cant get youtube at work during the day.. but i am sure it is on there.. he basically bull rushes a tackle back into the tackling dummy that represented the qb.. it looks awesome.. if he actually did that more that once as a starter at DE in a real game, it would be even more impressive.

[Jan Reimers]

Re: Someone please explain Robert Ayers...

First off, Ayers is not 0% production. You're only looking at one number - sacks. He had 12.5 TFL in the running game, which is REALLY good as a DE in college. That means he's very mature in the run game and can handle his own.

Did he get a lot of sacks in college? No, he didn't. That is his main weak area, but the things that he has to learn about pass-rushing (primarily repertoire and technique) can easily be taught. Supposedly our new DL coach Bob Sanders is good at develop pass-rushers.

Maybe you should read this article:

http://jac.scout.com/a.z?s=119&p=2&c=815692

He explains it better than I ever could. And he called it back in November, when no one was talking about Ayers at all.

Why take a DE who is a weak pass rusher, when a pass rusher is what we need? Let's take an accomplished, aggressive pass rusher, who might actually give us something from day 1.

[psubills62]

Re: Someone please explain Robert Ayers...

Why take a DE who is a weak pass rusher, when a pass rusher is what we need? Let's take an accomplished, aggressive pass rusher, who might actually give us something from day 1.

Because a DE isn't just about pass-rushing. Getting a guy who is great at sacking the QB isn't much help if all the other team does is run right at him for 10 yards per carry. DE's need a much better overall game than just rushing the passer.

My point is that Ayers can improve immensely with good coaching. And before anyone goes off on Jauron, it's not like Dick will be specifically focused on Ayers - that's Bob Sanders' job. And it seems as though he really helps players (Kampman) develop into great pass-rushers.

[Mahdi]

Re: Someone please explain Robert Ayers...

great.. ayers plays the run well.. kelsay is no slouch against the run.. he just sucks as a pass rusher.. we are trying to draft a defensive end that can RUSH THE PASSER because that is our main weakness.. for a team that sucked at getting the quarterback last year.. i could give a rats ass about how well a defensive end plays the run.. we can put a defensive tackle at end if that is all we are worried about.

basically what your saying is that rushing the passer is a huge weakness for ayers and that he will have to learn to do it.. OR we could take one of MANY other defensive ends that already know how to do it and not have to wait a year or two while learn how to play the position?

connor barwin has only been playing defensive end for 1 year total and the guy tripled ayers production.

yeah, im just looking at sacks because what we are talking about is needing a sack artist.. a guy that can get pressure.. otherwise we mine as well keep kelsay.

This is exactly why I want to take 2 DE with our first 2 picks.

Taking a strong run defender like Ayers with the ability to become a solid pass rusher and then taking a player like Sidbury at 28 would be smart. That is called re-building yer DL with playmakers.

Hopefully Raji falls to the Jags at 8 and they trade us Henderson for our 4th rounder.

Ayers - Stroud - Henderson - Schobel

Passing downs

Sidbury - Ayers - Stroud - Schobel ---- YESSIR