All this DE talk...

[nateodoms'bff]

So am i the only person here that thinks the Bills should draft BJ Raji?

I like Spencer Johnson and Kyle Williams, but ever since the Bills let Pat Williams go, this defense has not been the same. Having 2 dominant DT's upfront, would eliminate the problems this defense had against the run, and would free up the DE's to make plays in the back field.

This idea that our DE's are the worst in the league, is just plain redundant and boring.

The interior of both lines needs improvement. They Bills FO addressed the O-Line needs in FA, and will hopefully shore up the holes on the Defense in the draft.

Sure Schobel is getting old, and Kelsay is no good. But both of those players would benefit greatly by having Raji and Stroud eating up 4 guys on the line, allowing for one on one coverage of the DE's, which I am confident that Schobel can still beat. Allowing Ellis to rotate in, allows for a speedier pass rush from both ends.

The biggest holes are at DT and LB, those MUST be fixed in the first round.

And yes, I made this same thread the other day. I feel its the smartest and quickest way to get this team into the playoffs, and to compete at the next level. If you don't believe me, look at the other teams in this division that are focusing on defense.

[kernowboy]

Kelsay and Denney couldn't conjure up decent sack totals even if they were being blocked by thin air.

We have a lot of money tied up in Williams, Johnson and Stroud, and they do a better than average job.

What we desperately need is guys outside of them who can take advantage of their good work.

[BILLSROCK1212]

to be honest i actually still have hope for McCargo

[Nighthawk]

I want a DE at #11, but if Raji falls to us, then I think it would be hard for them to pass on taking him.

[Yasgur's Farm]

I got Raji above Orakpo and Brown as far as the Bills go. I've recently thought Tyson Jackson would be the best of both worlds. At 297, he'd be a great option in obvious passing situation for producing QB pressure from the interior. At the same time, he'd be an outstanding edge guy vs the run.

[Akhippo]

If it was a choice between stopping the run or rushing the passer. Rushing the passer. Have you seen the pass rush our DEs get; neither have I.

[Jan Reimers]

This idea that our DE's are the worst in the league, is just plain redundant and boring.
And true. But Raji would be hard to pass on if he fell to 11. I'd still take a DE at 28, though. We desperately need a pass rush, and you are not going to get it from our current DEs, unless Ellis has a major metemorphosis.

[T-Long]

It would turn into the BPA instead of drafting for need. If Raji fell, I would jump through the TV and take the card up myself.

[Nighthawk]

It would turn into the BPA instead of drafting for need. If Raji fell, I would jump through the TV and take the card up myself.

That would be interesting to see!

[nateodoms'bff]

If it was a choice between stopping the run or rushing the passer. Rushing the passer. Have you seen the pass rush our DEs get; neither have I.

I guess this is the fundamental difference. I would much rather stop the run, than the pass. The Bills play the Jets, Dolphins, Patriots six times a year. Every time that those teams win, its because the Defense was unable to stop the run consistently. The passing game of two of these teams is less than average. The Patriots have a phenomenal offense, based on their ability to grind out yards and clock when they have to. They do it with the run game. If you take that ability out of their offense, it tends to fall apart. See last years season.

By establishing the interior of the line, that gives the Bills a better than average chance of winning in the division. If the Bills go 4-2, or 5-1 in this division, the playoffs are guaranteed. The only way to do that is to stop the run. Stopping the pass is a great benefit of the strong play of the interior line man. Slightly better than average DT play, translates into less than average pass rush. It doesn't matter who is at the end. With DT's that don't eat up the line, those ends become Kelsay. Watch how better Washington's defense ends will be this year.

Rushing the passer is great for highlights and stats, but it means nothing if you don't stop the run.

[kernowboy]

If the opposing QB is flat on his arse 15yds behind the line of scrimmage that stops both the run and the pass

[kid mickey]

Raji won't be around for Buffalo's pick. End of story.

[Jan Reimers]

If the opposing QB is flat on his arse 15yds behind the line of scrimmage that stops both the run and the pass
Post of the week, at least.

[nateodoms'bff]

Considering most mock drafts have him falling to the Bronco's at #12, I would say there's a better than good chance he'll be there at #11.

[nateodoms'bff]

If the opposing QB is flat on his arse 15yds behind the line of scrimmage that stops both the run and the pass
So your defensive strategy is sack the QB on every down? That works awesome in Madden, and in NCAA '09, I have a defensive end that has 33 sacks in 8 games. My defense is pretty good.

Sadly, in REAL football, you have to stop the run, before you stop the pass. The best way to stop the run, is with DT's that gobble up the interior of the line. Not 254 lb guys who are able to do a spin move, or swivel their hips and swim underneath the Tackle.

I get the idea of wanting a fancy pass rusher. I remember the days of Bruce Smith. But I also remember 4 Super Bowl losses. I remember that no matter how good Bruce was, they were never able to stop the run. What has every single Super Bowl winning team been able to do? STOP the run when they had to. Until the Bills can do that, they will never be above .500, let alone the playoffs.

[kernowboy]

So your defensive strategy is sack the QB on every down? That works awesome in Madden, and in NCAA '09, I have a defensive end that has 33 sacks in 8 games. My defense is pretty good.

Sadly, in REAL football, you have to stop the run, before you stop the pass.

No but with Raji all we do is stand still. Unless we draft a pass rushing LB, pressure has to come from somewhere, and we cannot send the secondary, otherwise the opposing QB has all week to pick us apart. We don't do anything to raise the slightest concern for them.

Denney and Kelsay can be effectively blocked by thin air.

And the bottom line is, at 337lbs what is Raji's stamina like? A sack will put the opposition into places like 3rd and long occasionally and allow our offence on the field and a breather for the defence. Otherwise Raji and Stroud are simply going to wear down as we allow the opposition to conitually be on 3rd and 2 etc. We must generate more turnovers and that only comes through pressue on the QB, not letting him have his current armchair ride.

p.s. I don't play Madden

[nateodoms'bff]

No but with Raji all we do is stand still. Unless we draft a pass rushing LB, pressure has to come from somewhere, and we cannot send the secondary, otherwise the opposing QB has all week to pick us apart. We don't do anything to raise the slightest concern for them.

Denney and Kelsay can be effectively blocked by thin air.

And the bottom line is, at 337lbs what is Raji's stamina like? A sack will put the opposition into places like 3rd and long occasionally and allow our offence on the field and a breather for the defence. Otherwise Raji and Stroud are simply going to wear down as we allow the opposition to conitually be on 3rd and 2 etc. We must generate more turnovers and that only comes through pressue on the QB, not letting him have his current armchair ride.

p.s. I don't play Madden

I don't know what you mean by this statement? I'm going to assume you that BJ Raji doesn't stand still. He's not Larry Tripplett. He is an aggressive DT, who gets through the line of scrimmage, and makes a lot of plays in the backfield. The 3rd and Longs you speak of, don't only come from DE's. If you have DE's with size, and LB's with speed, a play that starts to unfold by the collapsing of holes because of the DT's, suddenly becomes a chance for a turnover, behind the line of scrimmage, by chasing down a QB or RB. The idea is get the advantage over the other team, not creat a highlight reel and inflated salaries. You increase the odds of a turnover by having multiple angles of attack. Raji is a sure bet next to Stroud. He has the advantage of learning the position from a Pro-Bowl DT. With his size alone, he is a physical presence on the line. The same cannot be said for any of the DE's. The physical demands of going up against mauling right tackles, and being unable to use the fancy twists and turns on them, will render them ineffective against the pass, or run.

And btw, you should play Madden. If you are a fan of the game, its a great year round hobby. I'm just sayin...

[kernowboy]

What I am trying to say is that Kyle Williams is a hellva better tackle than Kelsay is as an end.

No matter how good Raji is, our ends at the moment make our defence one dimensional and he will just get doubled team with Stroud, as Kelsay can get blocked by thin air.

We need to upgrade end over tackle.

[nateodoms'bff]

What I am trying to say is that Kyle Williams is a hellva better tackle than Kelsay is as an end.

No matter how good Raji is, our ends at the moment make our defence one dimensional and he will just get doubled team with Stroud, as Kelsay can get blocked by thin air.

We need to upgrade end over tackle.

This is the advantage of having Raji, that he does get double teamed. Hell, I want him to get triple teamed. The more guys the Offensive Line coaches they throw at Stroud and Raji, the better. That opens up our ends to do their job.

Its a difference of opinion on where the best place to apply pressure is. To me, I always think divide and conquor. Force the enemy to the outside, away from the safety of the middle. The only way to achieve that is through the middle of the line with DT's. To collapse the pocket and suffocate the backfield, the only way is off the ends.

Personally, I have never seen the Tampa 2 run better than in Chicago in their Super Bowl year. That year they had dominant DT's, who controlled the line of scrimmage, and thus, the game.

[Jeff1220]

I guess this is the fundamental difference. I would much rather stop the run, than the pass. The Bills play the Jets, Dolphins, Patriots six times a year. Every time that those teams win, its because the Defense was unable to stop the run consistently. The passing game of two of these teams is less than average. The Patriots have a phenomenal offense, based on their ability to grind out yards and clock when they have to. They do it with the run game. If you take that ability out of their offense, it tends to fall apart. See last years season.

By establishing the interior of the line, that gives the Bills a better than average chance of winning in the division. If the Bills go 4-2, or 5-1 in this division, the playoffs are guaranteed. The only way to do that is to stop the run. Stopping the pass is a great benefit of the strong play of the interior line man. Slightly better than average DT play, translates into less than average pass rush. It doesn't matter who is at the end. With DT's that don't eat up the line, those ends become Kelsay. Watch how better Washington's defense ends will be this year.

Rushing the passer is great for highlights and stats, but it means nothing if you don't stop the run.

I agree that if Raji is there, it's difficult to pass him up. But the Pat's are a passing team and they did not fall apart. Their HOF QB was hurt and they still went 11-5. Their starter, who hadn't started a game since hs put up 3700 yards and >20 TDs. The way to beat the Pats is to keep the pressure coming. That is a huge reason why the Bills haven't beaten them since 2003. A guy like Raji might help a little, but I have no faith in Schobel or Kelsay to apply pressure. There is definitely upgrades needed on the ends.

[BillsWin]

Are you new to my posting for the past 3 months? I'm a Raji advocate in the big time. No, no. You are not alone in your thinking.

[Akhippo]

I look at the Pats as the team to beat. Period. You beat them the path to the playoffs is that much clearer. They crushed through the regular season until they came across a Giants team that was able to put Brady on his back.

Minny has two of the best DTs around. They still went out and spend big for a DE because having no pass rush does nothing but let the other team hit you for big plays.

If Raji and Orakpo were there I would be happy with either in the end. An upgrade is an upgrade none the less.

[psubills62]

Raji would be great, I just think most people assume at this point that he won't fall to us. Considering there's 2+ teams in front of us (KC, GB) who desperately need a stud NT, and multiple teams like Cincy who could really use him....I just don't see him dropping. If he was there, I certainly wouldn't mind getting him.

In my one mock, I actually have the Bills picking Evander Hood at 28.

[kid mickey]

No way does Raji get to 11. Even if he did I don't think the Bills would take him. They have needs like OT and DE that are higher priority.

[ServoBillieves]

1) No way he falls.
2) Even if he's there, with what the FO has said, he's not top priority.
3) Am I the only one who thinks that Kyle Williams is way above average at DT?

[madness]

I'm not defending our pass rush, or lack of, but number one priority of any defense is to stop the run first. Our run defense, although better than the year before, was piss poor last year. You can't defend the pass or rush the passer when you are consistently over concerned about the running game.

If Raji is available at #11, I don't care what DE is on the board. With Stroud getting doubled and sometime tripled, teams still had too much success running straight up through the heart of our defense and you always want to clog or penetrate the middle to make the back bounce outside. If you can fix the run defense, the pass defense will get better.

[jamze132]

So am i the only person here that thinks the Bills should draft BJ Raji?

I like Spencer Johnson and Kyle Williams, but ever since the Bills let Pat Williams go, this defense has not been the same. Having 2 dominant DT's upfront, would eliminate the problems this defense had against the run, and would free up the DE's to make plays in the back field.

This idea that our DE's are the worst in the league, is just plain redundant and boring.

The interior of both lines needs improvement. They Bills FO addressed the O-Line needs in FA, and will hopefully shore up the holes on the Defense in the draft.

Sure Schobel is getting old, and Kelsay is no good. But both of those players would benefit greatly by having Raji and Stroud eating up 4 guys on the line, allowing for one on one coverage of the DE's, which I am confident that Schobel can still beat. Allowing Ellis to rotate in, allows for a speedier pass rush from both ends.

The biggest holes are at DT and LB, those MUST be fixed in the first round.

And yes, I made this same thread the other day. I feel its the smartest and quickest way to get this team into the playoffs, and to compete at the next level. If you don't believe me, look at the other teams in this division that are focusing on defense.
I would love Raji if he's available, as I think he will be the best player in this class when it's all said and done.

[kernowboy]

For me, DE is immediate need as we cannot face another season of Kelsay and Denney.

We could get better everywhere but with the likes of Gerald McCoy, Ndamukong Suh, Terrence Cody, Lawrence Marsh, and Marvin Austin coming out in 2010, I think this might be an area the Bills will look at. Raji is rated so highly partly because he's head and shoulders above his contemporaries in this class.

I think there a lots of good DEs this year but next year is definitely DT year