Is DE really such a top position to fill?

[jpdex12]

If we draft a first round DE he could very well only be a situational player this year. Can we really afford that or should we be looking to draft a starter from day one like Pettigrew at TE, Cushing at OLB or a RT?

This is a tough decision especially when you may have the best DE available in the draft. When we pick at #11 we are going to be looking at the option of picking...

-the 3rd or 4th best OT
-the 3rd best QB
-the best RB
-the 3rd best WR
-the best OG
-the best OC
-the best TE
-the 1st or 2nd best DE
-the 2nd best DT
-the 2nd best OLB
-the best ILB
-the best CB
-the best S

[kernowboy]

Why would he just be situational? We have Kelsay and Denney starting there at the moment and they are rubbish whilst Schobel is coming back from a very serious injury and at his age (31) it is always more difficult to come back. The only other player we have is Chris Ellis who did nothing as a rookie.

It is not so much a need as a desperate requirement. Any QB who faces our DE's at the moment probably is given a harder time in practice than on game day.

[OpIv37]

The OL is our #1 priority.

But all other things being equal, I'd take DE over TE or OLB. Schouman and Fine showed some sign of progress and the Bills don't really use TE all that much. A better pass rush will make Ellison's job easier- I'd much rather see a replacement for him, but I think DE would have a better and more immediate impact.

[seanbillsfan]

If we draft a first round DE he could very well only be a situational player this year. Can we really afford that or should we be looking to draft a starter from day one like Pettigrew at TE, Cushing at OLB or a RT?

This is a tough decision especially when you may have the best DE available in the draft. When we pick at #11 we are going to be looking at the option of picking...

-the 3rd or 4th best OT
-the 3rd best QB
-the best RB
-the 3rd best WR
-the best OG
-the best OC
-the best TE
-the 1st or 2nd best DE
-the 2nd best DT
-the 2nd best OLB
-the best ILB
-the best CB
-the best S
Yes

[kernowboy]

When your reserve safety George Wilson has only 0.5sacks less than your starting end Chris Kelsay (1.5sacks to 2sacks) and your reserve CB Ashton Youboty has as many sacks as your star end Aaron Schobel in the same number of games played (1sack in 5games) do not underestimate for one second how much of a need this is.

[Tatonka]

i think that with schobel back that helps a ton.

it depends on what the front office thinks about for ellis.. or if they can move kelsay.

i agree that kelsay is just not that good, but ellis is an unknown. it is clear that he struggled as a rookie.. but that is common.. guys that get drafted in the 3rd round typically have some kind of issues to work on.. so he needed to get stronger.. and hopefully he has.. he has a lot of speed and can still be a very big factor in this up coming year..

also, the new line coach might be able to help get more out of all 4 of our DEs..

i really dont want a DE with the first pick.. i dont think there is any value there.. i think that you can get a DE that is just as good, with a lot more value, through probably the 3rd round.

[Mahdi]

If we draft a first round DE he could very well only be a situational player this year. Can we really afford that or should we be looking to draft a starter from day one like Pettigrew at TE, Cushing at OLB or a RT?

This is a tough decision especially when you may have the best DE available in the draft. When we pick at #11 we are going to be looking at the option of picking...

-the 3rd or 4th best OT
-the 3rd best QB
-the best RB
-the 3rd best WR
-the best OG
-the best OC
-the best TE
-the 1st or 2nd best DE
-the 2nd best DT
-the 2nd best OLB
-the best ILB
-the best CB
-the best S
Kelsay and Denney are situational without the talent. IE the only situation Kelsay and Denney should be playing in involves the Bills having a 30 point lead.

A rookie DE with speed and talent can do no worse than Kelsay.

[kernowboy]

I think both Everette Brown or Aaron Maybin are both worthy No11 picks.

Forget this nonsense about needing to be huge to go up against a RT. This is only a factor if the RT latches onto you.

Jevon Kearse spent his entire career at LE and with a great first step had plenty of RT chasing thin air. I don't want a LE who can embark on a wrestling competition with a RT, I want to RT scratching his head wondering how our guy has got past him.

These small college LEs have often faced big mauling RT. Don't give them extra work by forcing them to learn how to compete against more nimble LT's but let them loose in their own environment.

[ddaryl]

well the problem with many of the DE's i nthis draft ..


they are either lack experience, or had one good year.
they have great upside but need time
they would be great rushing the passer but need time to develope runn stopping skills
they are undersized for a 4-3 DE and / or projects as 3-4 OLB'ssome of these player might only see the field 1 or 2 downs out of 3

then the ones that could be all 3 down DE's for us lack that dominating 1st step, or are great run stuffers and able ot hold th epoint of attack but have never sacked the QB much in their college careers

there is really no DE that does both very well in this draft. I think Orakpo is the closest to all around DE. he has on field production and he pretty much tore up the combine drills and his pro day.

Jackson and Ayers woul dbe upgrades over kelsay and Denny but they don't give us that pass rusher we covet.

Maybin, Brown and Johnson all have that first step but lack skills at run defense and other techniques needed to play all 3 downs at the NFL, and may be more suited for a 3-4 OLB


and for the record I am not against taking any DE prospect but we all want a player who can start, play all 3 downs and upgrade us immediately, and preferably not until week 10...

[X-Era]

If we draft a first round DE he could very well only be a situational player this year. Can we really afford that or should we be looking to draft a starter from day one like Pettigrew at TE, Cushing at OLB or a RT?

This is a tough decision especially when you may have the best DE available in the draft. When we pick at #11 we are going to be looking at the option of picking...

-the 3rd or 4th best OT
-the 3rd best QB
-the best RB
-the 3rd best WR
-the best OG
-the best OC
-the best TE
-the 1st or 2nd best DE
-the 2nd best DT
-the 2nd best OLB
-the best ILB
-the best CB
-the best S

I really like the way your thinking about this. It seems to head down the BPA road.

To me, the question is more around what makes the most sense for the Bills which isnt always just biggest need.

For example, we could get the best ILB in Rey but only the second best OLB in Cushing (i assume thats who you mean and not a DE convert). I could see us moving Poz outside. So, in that case, you may get a much better football player in Rey, move Poz outside where he may do well, instead of a not as good OLB straight up.

DE is another spot as youve said. Why draft a rotational DE when our #1 DE is probably still Schobel anyways. Well, I could see that improving the pass rush is so important that you need to get a great you talent to get better right away. Even if that player wont be in on every down.

I agree its a tough decision.

At RT, I really feel like even there, at RT vs. LT, you still are talking about a prospect only being able to start mid season at the earliest due to the time to develop. I think the development time needed is even longer for LT.

I think it needs to strictly be what helps us the most based on ALL factors.

[X-Era]

I think both Everette Brown or Aaron Maybin are both worthy No11 picks.

Forget this nonsense about needing to be huge to go up against a RT. This is only a factor if the RT latches onto you.

Jevon Kearse spent his entire career at LE and with a great first step had plenty of RT chasing thin air. I don't want a LE who can embark on a wrestling competition with a RT, I want to RT scratching his head wondering how our guy has got past him.

These small college LEs have often faced big mauling RT. Don't give them extra work by forcing them to learn how to compete against more nimble LT's but let them loose in their own environment.

I agree with Brown, but Maybins rawness has me questioning him at 11.

I think the size issue is overplayed. Freeney, Mathis, Taylor, all make this argument. Elvis Dumervil is another. If you can play, you can play

[SABURZFAN]

the Bills could do theirselves a huge favor focusing on the OL going into this draft.

[DrGraves]

Yes. Denney and Kelsay are the worst DE ends in the league.

Schobel is good but hes getting older/ was hurt all last year...

we generated 7 sacks total from both DE positions last year. that is pathetic. you should have that many is 2-3 games tops.

[SquishDaFish]

Its time to do what a REAL team does and work from the LINES out! OL and DL. We need a big time Pass RUSHER. We dont have one at all. We need to get to the QB and protect our QB

[jpdex12]

I really like the way your thinking about this. It seems to head down the BPA road.

To me, the question is more around what makes the most sense for the Bills which isnt always just biggest need.

For example, we could get the best ILB in Rey but only the second best OLB in Cushing (i assume thats who you mean and not a DE convert). I could see us moving Poz outside. So, in that case, you may get a much better football player in Rey, move Poz outside where he may do well, instead of a not as good OLB straight up.

DE is another spot as youve said. Why draft a rotational DE when our #1 DE is probably still Schobel anyways. Well, I could see that improving the pass rush is so important that you need to get a great you talent to get better right away. Even if that player wont be in on every down.

I agree its a tough decision.

At RT, I really feel like even there, at RT vs. LT, you still are talking about a prospect only being able to start mid season at the earliest due to the time to develop. I think the development time needed is even longer for LT.

I think it needs to strictly be what helps us the most based on ALL factors.

I'm glad someone understood this question. Obviously our pash rush is very important as it was non-existant last season. What I'm saying is we can draft a DE at #11 like Orakpo and it will immediately improve our pass rush. But when we are paying the non-existant Kelsay so much money and over the hill Schobel so much money what will a third high paid rookie DE do for us? If we draft Orakpo with hopes that he replaces Schobel in a year's time that's one thing but Orakpo would also make Kelsay worth peanuts in a trade. He wasn't worth much to begin with.

I really think Orakpo will be very good. I also think Pettigrew will be good as well. Likewise with Cushing. I know we could draft DE and TE in round one and still fill OT and G/C in rounds two and three with top notch lineman like Beatty, Britton, Loadholt, Meridith, Robinson, Mack, Caldwell, Wood, etc.

Either Orakpo and Pettigrew or Cushing and Pettigrew in round one would make my day.

[ServoBillieves]

From a hole filling side, no, DE is far from it. We have experienced players in each position and depth, although only good at this time.

From a need perspective and desire to rush the likes of Tom Brady/Chad Pennington/Whoever the hell (hopefully Josh Freeman, PLEASE let those loser *******s take Josh Freeman) is starting for the Jets, then yes, we need a pass rusher. What most people don't realize is this draft is very deep with pass rushers, but everyone wants the top one.

If we go OLB, OT/OG, either, then DE or TE, I would be OK with it.

I will only be disappointed if we draft a CB, S, OC, WR, QB, HB, FB, OG, DT, K, P, or LS with the first pick, unless the DT is Raji or the WR is Crabtree.

[Lefty2985]

we need help on both sides of the ball in reguards to lineman. i think we can take duke robinson in the 2nd or mack with the 28th and adress de at 11. but chris ellis is the wild card we dont know how high the front office is on him if they think he is ready they will pass a de up. all i know if raji is available at 11 and we dont take him i will be mad!!!

[X-Era]

we need help on both sides of the ball in reguards to lineman. i think we can take duke robinson in the 2nd or mack with the 28th and adress de at 11. but chris ellis is the wild card we dont know how high the front office is on him if they think he is ready they will pass a de up. all i know if raji is available at 11 and we dont take him i will be mad!!!

I will be honest, I was happy when we took a DE early, but I was never a big fan of his in college. He really seems like a warn body more than a stud pass rusher.

[kernowboy]

I have done some research and Everette Brown's performances stand scrutiny with Dwight Freeney.

He has played more games (41 to 39) with more starts (25 to 22). He made slightly less tackles (100 to 104) but more were solo (70 to 68). He also started a third of his games at LE. His sack totals are below Freeney (23.5 to 34) but he only played 3 years to Freeney's 4 and Freeney had that mad final year of 17.5 sacks.

Freeney's stats as a junior stack up with Maybin. By that time Maybin had played 26 games to Freeney's 27, both with 10 starts. Maybin had made 61 tackles to Freeney's 54 of which 38 were solo compared to Freeney's 35. Maybin had 16 career sacks and Freeney had 16.5.

When comparing the two Maybin's levels are slightly behind Freeney's coming into the draft, Brown's slightly better.

I seem to recall no-one wanted Freeney at #11.

[BuffaloRanger]

I'm glad someone understood this question. Obviously our pash rush is very important as it was non-existant last season. What I'm saying is we can draft a DE at #11 like Orakpo and it will immediately improve our pass rush. But when we are paying the non-existant Kelsay so much money and over the hill Schobel so much money what will a third high paid rookie DE do for us? If we draft Orakpo with hopes that he replaces Schobel in a year's time that's one thing but Orakpo would also make Kelsay worth peanuts in a trade. He wasn't worth much to begin with.

I really think Orakpo will be very good. I also think Pettigrew will be good as well. Likewise with Cushing. I know we could draft DE and TE in round one and still fill OT and G/C in rounds two and three with top notch lineman like Beatty, Britton, Loadholt, Meridith, Robinson, Mack, Caldwell, Wood, etc.

Either Orakpo and Pettigrew or Cushing and Pettigrew in round one would make my day.



If the Bills could find a way to land Britton AND Mack or Wood I would be estatic.
Why so high on Pettigrew? I know he is the Top rated all around TE. But there are alot of TEs that have produced more offensively in this draft, that can be had in the 3rd.

[Night Train]

One Kelsay had his name floated for trade purposes ( like Ko Simpson ) , the Bills basically stated they are moving on without him, IMO. I wouldn't be surprised if he's cut if the Bills can't get anything for him this weekend.

Plus the Bills may be worrying about Schobels foot breaking down again.

I'm thinking the Bills are very worried about this line, outside of Stroud.

If Strouds old mate John Henderson is available, go get him AND draft a DE. We need players on that line in a big way.

[kernowboy]

I think they are more than happy with Kyle Williams and Spencer Johnson but the ends situtation is just horrible.

[Mahdi]

i think that with schobel back that helps a ton.

it depends on what the front office thinks about for ellis.. or if they can move kelsay.

i agree that kelsay is just not that good, but ellis is an unknown. it is clear that he struggled as a rookie.. but that is common.. guys that get drafted in the 3rd round typically have some kind of issues to work on.. so he needed to get stronger.. and hopefully he has.. he has a lot of speed and can still be a very big factor in this up coming year..

also, the new line coach might be able to help get more out of all 4 of our DEs..

i really dont want a DE with the first pick.. i dont think there is any value there.. i think that you can get a DE that is just as good, with a lot more value, through probably the 3rd round.
Schobel is a good football player but he is not the pass rusher that we need and he never was.

Schobel = sack/pressure after 3.5 seconds = Brady touchdown

Good pass rusher = sack/pressure within 3.0 seconds = INT/INC/SACK

Schobel is a great guy to have when you have a good DE on the roster already and he compliments him.

I.E.

Schobel -- "Hey man, yer a sick DE, you really know how to get to a QB BEFORE he throws it."
" Man, yer so good, you get to the QB on your first move, how u do that?"
" Wow, yer amazing dude, teach me."

[DynaPaul]

Absolutely we need a DE in the 1st round. This Cover 2 crap we are running doesn't function without a line that can generate pressure from 4 down.