The wisdom in drafting a Center on Day 1

[BuffaloRanger]

Hangartner is a short-term fix at Center. How can we expect a backup from another team to come in and do better then Fowler and Preston did against the Nose tackles in the AFC East? We really can't.

Also, who is our starting LG?

How about shifting Hangartner to LG after we draft one of the top 2 Centers in the draft (Mack or Unger) at #28. Or the Bills could also pray one falls to them at #42.

[Mitchell55]

Hangartner was a huge part of Carolinas top 5 run game last year.

[BuffaloRanger]

He started 8 games at Center and Guard due to injury. That makes him a quality reserve OL. I'm sure he played some in the other games too. I'm not sure if that really makes him a huge part of the success though. Probably solid enough though.

Unfortunately, while fact checking that info I found that the Bills basically guaranteed him the Center job when he signed. So it looks like a top Center in the draft will remain one of my draft pipe dreams - 5 years running now.

Man, the OL is going to seriously blow this year unless they really pull off some miracles in this draft. You can't just plug backups into starting roles - Hangartner, Chambers, McKinney, and Bell and expect great results. Also know as "Buffalo Sabre Logic."

The only OL that is returning to his 2008 position is RG Brad Butler. Wow. One injury to a lineman this year will have devastating results.

[kernowboy]

He started 8 games at Center and Guard due to injury. That makes him a quality reserve OL. I'm sure he played some in the other games too. I'm not sure if that really makes him a huge part of the success though. Probably solid enough though.

Unfortunately, while fact checking that info I found that the Bills basically guaranteed him the Center job when he signed. So it looks like a top Center in the draft will remain one of my draft pipe dreams - 5 years running now.

Man, the OL is going to seriously blow this year unless they really pull off some miracles in this draft. You can't just plug backups into starting roles - Hangartner, Chambers, McKinney, and Bell and expect great results. Also know as "Buffalo Sabre Logic."

The only OL that is returning to his 2008 position is RG Brad Butler. Wow. One injury to a lineman this year will have devastating results.

There is little logic. Hangartner has started 24 of 52 career starts. He has started at both Center and Left Guard, and it has been determined by both him and the coaches he has worked with, that his best position is Center. We have also got Seth McKinney as a backup and he has starting experience at Center. Having Edwards have to break in a rookie at center with a LG playing out of position seems nonsensical.

People are making too much out of the LG issue. There will undoubtedly be some releases of decent players in the weeks after the draft. There are also some decent players still in Free Agency, but undoubtedly the team is waiting to see what happens this weekend before deciding if they are happy with who we've got or whether to pick up a veteran like Pete Kendall.

When we have acute needs at DE, WLB, TE and growing needs at OT and FS, drafting someone at a position where we have two acceptable veterans already in place and then asking one of these players to start at a position which they have readily admitted they are lessed skilled doesn't make sense.

.... so this Front Office is bound to make that move.

[kernowboy]

He started 8 games at Center and Guard due to injury. That makes him a quality reserve OL. I'm sure he played some in the other games too. I'm not sure if that really makes him a huge part of the success though. Probably solid enough though.

Unfortunately, while fact checking that info I found that the Bills basically guaranteed him the Center job when he signed. So it looks like a top Center in the draft will remain one of my draft pipe dreams - 5 years running now.

Man, the OL is going to seriously blow this year unless they really pull off some miracles in this draft. You can't just plug backups into starting roles - Hangartner, Chambers, McKinney, and Bell and expect great results. Also know as "Buffalo Sabre Logic."

The only OL that is returning to his 2008 position is RG Brad Butler. Wow. One injury to a lineman this year will have devastating results.

Also you cannot just shove a rookie Center in from Day1 and expect immediate results.

At the moment we have a RT with experience, a RG with experience, a C with experience whilst the left side is weak and inexperienced

With a rookie we'd have a RT with experience, a RG with experience, a rookie C who is inexperienced, a LG who is inexperienced and a LT who is inexperienced.

Why weaken at already weak line?

[BuffaloRanger]

Also you cannot just shove a rookie Center in from Day1 and expect immediate results.

At the moment we have a RT with experience, a RG with experience, a C with experience whilst the left side is weak and inexperienced

With a rookie we'd have a RT with experience, a RG with experience, a rookie C who is inexperienced, a LG who is inexperienced and a LT who is inexperienced.

Why weaken at already weak line?


Actually our RT with experience is now our new LT. Even if they draft Oher at #11, throwing him at LT would be foolhardy.

Our RT will either be a rookie or Kirk Chambers.

Butler stays at RG.

Hangarter at Center played LG last year.

There is no experience at LG.

[kernowboy]

Actually our RT with experience is now our new LT. Even if they draft Oher at #11, throwing him at LT would be foolhardy.

Our RT will either be a rookie or Kirk Chambers.

Butler stays at RG.

Hangarter at Center played LG last year.

There is no experience at LG.

He actually played 4 games at Center, 2 games at LG and 2 games at RG. It was determined his best position was the pivot.

I do not actually agree with the suggestion that Walker will automatically start at LT. Chambers actually played in place of Peters at the end of the season with Walker remaining on the right.

In addition, nothing will be decided until training camp and pre-season. It is quite possible that even if we draft someone like Eben Britton or Gerald Cadogan, they will step up and start.

What people fail to realise that whoever we draft here, would realise that it represents a huge opportunity for them, and if they have the right character and work ethic would really put that effort on the training field and video room to get that starting position from Day1. That's how Light started from Day1 despite being a R2 pick, realising there was a golden opportunity and grasping it.

[BuffaloRanger]

There is little logic. Hangartner has started 24 of 52 career starts. He has started at both Center and Left Guard, and it has been determined by both him and the coaches he has worked with, that his best position is Center. We have also got Seth McKinney as a backup and he has starting experience at Center. Having Edwards have to break in a rookie at center with a LG playing out of position seems nonsensical.

People are making too much out of the LG issue. There will undoubtedly be some releases of decent players in the weeks after the draft. There are also some decent players still in Free Agency, but undoubtedly the team is waiting to see what happens this weekend before deciding if they are happy with who we've got or whether to pick up a veteran like Pete Kendall.



I realize the Bills have other needs. But the Oline, which was overrated last year, is looking like it will not be anywhere as good as even that. At some point you have to add quality. Not just play musical OL chairs with other teams castoffs and your own reserve lineman.

McKinney is a bum. Depth only. Bell is still very raw. Chambers could be serviceable, but that is a very thin Oline. One injury and it falls like a deck of cards.

Breaking in a rookie Center might be a challenge but it wouldn't be so bad since it would be one of the best college Centers in the country. I'm not talking a late round pick here. And you could break him in slow since you have Hangarter.

Your logic of just throwing anyone in at LG seems shortsighted. While Hangarter may be better at Center then LG, he is undoubtedly the best and most experienced LG on the roster.

I really hope the Bills aren't holding out hope that they can fill the LG spot with a player cut by another team this late in FA. That just doesn't happen anymore. The cap is so high now that June 1st cuts hardly even register.

Kendall is still out there, which is curious. He must not have much left in the tank.

[kernowboy]

From what I can see we've gotten rid of four OL and replaced them with two. Fowler and Preston are gone and have been replaced with Hangartner and McKinney. That for me is a big upgrade. People call McKinney a bum but he has been good enough to beat out competitors at both Miami and Cleveland and despite injuries justified being resigned.

It annoys me that Geoff Hangartner is being slagged off before he's even put on a Bills shirt. He's fought his way into a starting opportunity and thoroughly deserves the chance. If the Panthers hadn't had to resign Gross and Peppers and extend Delhomme, he'd have never been allowed to hit the market.

Considering the pathetic play of Peters and Dockery last season and giving up of 19.75 sacks, whilst in the case of Peters maybe deliberately letting the pass rusher through, anything would be an improvement.

We can quite easily get a OT in R2 and a OG in R4, and we are back to the roster levels we were at before. Bring in someone like Kendall to replace Whittle and in fact I think our OL is better than last season.

People equate high salaries with stellar performances. It doesn't work that way. And Denver have proven for the last decade you don't need to draft OL on Day1 to have an exceptional line - in fact their only high pick in this time was George Foster and he was a dog.

I do hear what you say about eventually getting a rookie center in but I think that this year is not the year to do that.

[BuffaloRanger]

Chambers at LT would be interesting. I don't necessarily agree with it, but it would be interesting.

With the addition of TO I think teams are going to play the Bills differently. last season it was double cover Evans and make Edwards scare to throw to his WRs. Evans had 3 TDs last year. That is embarrassing. The offense was a joke.

This season with the addition of TO the defensive emphasis will to put pressure on Trent. 3 new Olineman? Oh yeah, the AFC East is going to bring it. Who's going to stop them?

Ideally these holes would have been filled in FA, instead they were made bigger.

I'd like to see the Bills start the process of building a dominant Oline by drafting two stud Olineman early in this draft.

Of course if they draft Pettigrew he'll only be useful as a blocker, so maybe he'd count toward that!

[kernowboy]

I think if we draft someone like Gerald Cadogan at #42 he'd start on Day1 either at LG or LT.

We need someone with plenty of starting experience and an unbelievable work ethic. Over the season we could look to see what Bell looked like at either LG or LT too. By the end of the season, our left side would be set for the next decade.

Cadogan is a sleeper. He's plenty of Big10 experience, has been a team leader, is very intelligent and performed very well for the Nittany Lions. When he got to the combine and pro day he surprised scouts with his strength and speed. He is adept at both pass and run blocking.

But because he played with four other talented guys he hasn't stood out as much. And because he is quiet and hasn't blown his own trumpet again he has slipped under the radar.

Some young players get by on reputation, some work hard to make that reputation. I have heard the Bills like Cadogan

In the fourth we could take Kraig Urbik. A huge roadgrader, when Walker's contract came up we could slide Butler outside.

Starting the 2010 season with a line of Bell-Cadogan-Hangartner-Urbik-Butler might not excite but I think it would soon be considered one of the better lines in the league.

[BuffaloRanger]

I also like Cadogan who is becoming less and less "sleepy".

As always it seems the Bills have one more need then quality draft pick available.

[Night Train]

What about Wood ( Lousiville ), Unger (Oregon) & Caldwell (Alabama) ? They can start at either C or G. :up:

[kernowboy]

What about Wood ( Lousiville ), Unger (Oregon) & Caldwell (Alabama) ? They can start at either C or G. :up:

Of those I'd go with Unger as he's had two years at C and 2 years at T but I see Cadogan as a lanky Ruben Brown, a college T who could slide inside, but has more than enough ability to play LT

[Mr. Pink]

I think without a doubt Alex Mack should be the pick at 28.

[Philagape]

So it's ok to have a rookie at LT but not inside? It's ok to move a rookie like Cadogan out of position but not Hangartner, who's played guard in the NFL?

Mack would start at C from Day 1 and be an upgrade. His work ethic and football intelligence are second to none. He's the total package and a potential perennial Pro Bowler. And he can play G too.

I'd rather have Hangartner at LG than McKinney.

Hangartner/Mack >>> McKinney/Hangartner

[kernowboy]

So it's ok to have a rookie at LT but not inside? It's ok to move a rookie like Cadogan out of position but not Hangartner, who's played guard in the NFL?

Mack would start at C from Day 1 and be an upgrade. His work ethic and football intelligence are second to none. He's the total package and a potential perennial Pro Bowler. And he can play G too.

I'd rather have Hangartner at LG than McKinney.

Hangartner/Mack >>> McKinney/Hangartner

My concern is if Bell doesn't develop, we are back looking for a LT again. Cadogan has specifically being focusing on getting some G practise as well.

My thoughts are if Bell develops, then Cadogan will be a very good G. If Bell doesn't develop Cadogan will be a very good LT.

As Hangartner himself, and his coaches at the Panthers say his best position is C, why stick him at a position which is not his best position?

[Philagape]

My concern is if Bell doesn't develop, we are back looking for a LT again. Cadogan has specifically being focusing on getting some G practise as well.

My thoughts are if Bell develops, then Cadogan will be a very good G. If Bell doesn't develop Cadogan will be a very good LT.

As Hangartner himself, and his coaches at the Panthers say his best position is C, why stick him at a position which is not his best position?

Is Cadogan's best position LT? If so, then why it ok for him to not play his best position but not a veteran who's played the position in the NFL?

[Jan Reimers]

The simple answer: There is no evidence that Hangartner is simply a short term fix at center He may be a fixture there for years. But, even more importantly, we have far greater needs.

[cookie G]

Mack, and especially Unger would be a mistake at center in the AFCE, against ADCE nosetackles. Raji shot up draft charts due in part to his showing against them in Senior Bowl practices.

Both, especially Mack, would probably be very good at guard, but not much of an upgrade over Fowler when taking on an NT.

If you want a center to take on Wilfork and Jenkins, look for Wood or Caldwell. Both would probably struggle, but not as much as Mack or Unger.

[The Juice Is Loose]

Hangartner was a huge part of Carolinas top 5 run game last year.

THANKYOU! There are pro bowlers that were backups at one point.

Hangartner was in the 2nd half of the season for Carolina and their running game EXPLODED!

I'm personally psyched about Hangartner, and I am willing to bet that, barring injury, he'll be our best C in years. I know that's not saying much, but improvement is improvement.

[don137]

I never heard of Hangartner being better at center than guard. The Panthers running game did better when he played guard and not center. When Khalil started at center the running game was more effective for the Panthers. I personally like Hangartner at guard.

[BuffaloRanger]

Yep. A true Center in round 1. I AM LOVING IT!

[Jan Reimers]

You were right, BR, and I was wrong. I apologize. I love the Wood pick, and think he will be a fixture on our O line for the next 10 years.