Give FO Credit alot of you wanted to reach for TE

[TheMan08]

And we got OUR Man in 4th rd.

Many had him ranked Number 2 after Pettigrew. At worst 3rd after Cook.

[ddaryl]

you're gonna have to pull some teeth to get this crew to give up FO credit

[gil]

you're gonna have to pull some teeth to get this crew to give up FO credit

Honestly, I hate some of the negativity too, but there's some pretty good reasons for not giving credit or benefit of the doubt to this FO.

[ddaryl]

Honestly, I hate some of the negativity too, but there's some pretty good reasons for not giving credit or benefit of the doubt to this FO.

I agree...

but there are some that just can't do it

[Nighthawk]

Let's not get crazy here...this FO reached for Byrd and in reality, got lucky that Nelson fell to them in the 4th. There was no skill to it, sometimes you get lucky...we got lucky and I'm thrilled about it.

[Al the Bills Fan]

I give them plenty of credit in THIS draft. Yes they have been pretty clueless in the past but they got it together right now

[X-Era]

Let's not get crazy here...this FO reached for Byrd and in reality, got lucky that Nelson fell to them in the 4th. There was no skill to it, sometimes you get lucky...we got lucky and I'm thrilled about it.

Ya know, I like you man, but sometimes....

You have no idea whether they thought he would drop or not.

You call it luck, but its very possible that they thought this out and new he would drop despite what the draftnicks were saying.

You don't know, I don't either, but you cant say its luck because you don't know.

[Nighthawk]

Ya know, I like you man, but sometimes....

You have no idea whether they thought he would drop or not.

You call it luck, but its very possible that they thought this out and new he would drop despite what the draftnicks were saying.

You don't know, I don't either, but you cant say its luck because you don't know.

Come on man, don't tell me they sat there and said, "you know, Nelson will fall to us in the 4th round, so we'll reach for a DB here in the 2nd!"

Now that is just plain stupid talk.

This entire process is somewhat driven by luck.

[yordad]

They get credit for being lucky?

[The Spaz]

Who gives a flying **** if they got lucky he was there and we took him. Now he's on the team and who gets credit for drafting him? We do.

[Al the Bills Fan]

They get credit for being lucky?
Bills can't win! If they take a guy a little too early they reached. If they wait and someone falls to them they are lucky. Even if Nelon was off the board there were other good TE that we could have picked.

I think this is a great draft thus far

[Nighthawk]

Who gives a flying **** if they got lucky he was there and we took him. Now he's on the team and who gets credit for drafting him? We do.

Not the point...I love the pick! Just people are getting a little ridiculous with their praise right now. I'm happy, but let's not forget they reached badly on a CB (who will move to FS) in round 2...should that be forgotten???

[yordad]

Who gives a flying **** if they got lucky he was there and we took him. Now he's on the team and who gets credit for drafting him? We do. It was a no brainer. Wanting to give the F.O. some sort of kudos for it is on you. I guess sometimes it is better to be lucky then good.

[The Spaz]

Yep I'll take the Patriots luck when they drafted Brady.:up:

[tampabay25690]

I said from day 1 that the TE position was loaded....
There is honestly no need to take a TE in the 1st...

Just like TAMPA had no reason to trade up to take that Freeman kid.....

[jmb1099]

Not the point...I love the pick! Just people are getting a little ridiculous with their praise right now. I'm happy, but let's not forget they reached badly on a CB (who will move to FS) in round 2...should that be forgotten???
If we had drafted one good player and bombed on the rest I'd call that one pick dumb luck. But it looks to me like we managed to draft well from start to finish. That doesn't just happen, that takes intense preparation. We may see Byrd as a reach, certainly looks like it to me, but this draft has nothing to do with luck... If we're going to call the FO out about every little thing (usually justified) then we have to give them props as well. If the only thing that we focus on is a potential reach and ignore the rest of the draft, well that is just stupid.

[X-Era]

Come on man, don't tell me they sat there and said, "you know, Nelson will fall to us in the 4th round, so we'll reach for a DB here in the 2nd!"

Now that is just plain stupid talk.

This entire process is somewhat driven by luck.
I agree there is luck involved. But you basically gave them no credit and said it was simply luck.

They wanted a pass catching TE. This team moves up A LOT. Yet they sat there through more than a whole round and waited when Nelson may have already been great value at the start of the 3rd. People thought even a 2nd round grade.

But they waited. Theres no luck in that. They decided to make that move... to make no move up. Thats a decision, not luck.

And it worked out.

Yes, there is luck in the other teams not taking him... but its not all luck.

[Nighthawk]

Listen, I'm excited that this draft has went well, but I'm not going to get crazy excited like some of you. This organization seems to finally have done what they're supposed to do and now you guys think they're great??? Really??? All I'm saying is to relax and enjoy it, but don't get to crazy with the praise...

[Jan Reimers]

Let's not get crazy here...this FO reached for Byrd and in reality, got lucky that Nelson fell to them in the 4th. There was no skill to it, sometimes you get lucky...we got lucky and I'm thrilled about it.
Actually, Byrd was not a big reach. Scout.com, for instance, had him ranked as the 51st best player overall, and he would have been higher except for his lack of elite speed.

But he's athletic, a great leaper and ballhawk, and a real playmaker. He should make an exceptional safety, where his speed will not be as big a detriment. I think the FO felt the same about Harris - athletic and fast enough to play safety, but even better suited for LB at his size.

[Nighthawk]

Actually, Byrd was not a big reach. Scout.com, for instance, had him ranked as the 51st best player overall, and he would have been higher except for his lack of elite speed.

But he's athletic, a great leaper and ballhawk, and a real playmaker. He should make an exceptional safety, where his speed will not be as big a detriment. I think the FO felt the same about Harris - athletic and fast enough to play safety, but even better suited for LB at his size.

I hope he turns out as good as they think because we need a playmaker at FS.

[tampabay25690]

How do u call any guy a reach..
What about Detroit Stafford he wasn't even the best QB in the SEC, thats a reach.....

I dont feel STAFFORD was the best player in the draft...Thats a reach..

[Throne Logic]

"Reach" and "steal"

I love how these terms get tossed around with such venom and conviction.

Ultimately, whether the pick was a consensus "reach" or "steal", the only thing that truly matters is if they make a significant contribution to the team. A "bust" is a "bust", regardless.

[Typ0]

The best part of draft day is watching idiots fight about how things went well or didn't or a pick was good or wasn't or a guy was a reach or a steal. The only time there will be any real indication of how things went is when things play out on the field...or don't.

[yordad]

Yep I'll take the Patriots luck when they drafted Brady.:up:Yeah, Brady was a top prospect coming out, it was a shocker he slipped to the Pats for a late round steal. The Pats got super lucky Brady wasn't snatched up quicker because of his super strength and super speed.

Seriously?

[yordad]

How do u call any guy a reach..
What about Detroit Stafford he wasn't even the best QB in the SEC, thats a reach.....

I dont feel STAFFORD was the best player in the draft...Thats a reach..It was a bit of a reach, so what are you getting at? The Lions reached? Well yeah, ok.

[Tatonka]

I said from day 1 that the TE position was loaded....
There is honestly no need to take a TE in the 1st...

Just like TAMPA had no reason to trade up to take that Freeman kid.....

so it is entirely possible that the bills knew that too.. therefore, maybe it wasnt luck.. but just good drafting for value.

[yordad]

Bills can't win! If they take a guy a little too early they reached. If they wait and someone falls to them they are lucky. Even if Nelon was off the board there were other good TE that we could have picked.

I think this is a great draft thus farOh no, they could have won. They could have drafted Orakpo!!! They could have had Evertte Brown in the second instead of another DB. I think they could have even had Duke Robinson in the forth if they hadn't trade up for Andy L.

They didn't have to draft 4 DEVENSIVE BACKS AND ONLY ONE FRONT 7 PLAYER!!!!!!!!!!!!

They screwed up evey pick except one, IMO, and for that they DO NOT GET "CREDIT".

[Jan Reimers]

The FO at least knew that this draft was deep in pass catching TEs, and one of the good ones would still be available to us.

[Mahdi]

Not the point...I love the pick! Just people are getting a little ridiculous with their praise right now. I'm happy, but let's not forget they reached badly on a CB (who will move to FS) in round 2...should that be forgotten???
Seeing as how we have a problem at the FS spot drafting a Ball Hawk like Byrd is not a reach.

17 INTs, 50 or so pass breakups, great tackler, great instincts.

Nice build at 5'10 207. Not saying he is going to be Ed Reed but he has that kind of knack for making plays on the ball combined with his return abilities he might just be the playmaker we need in our backfield.

This move also allows Whitner to take on the Bob Sanders role full time which suits his strengths.

[Mahdi]

Oh no, they could have won. They could have drafted Orakpo!!! They could have had Evertte Brown in the second instead of another DB. I think they could have even had Duke Robinson in the forth if they hadn't trade up for Andy L.

They didn't have to draft 4 DEVENSIVE BACKS AND ONLY ONE FRONT 7 PLAYER!!!!!!!!!!!!

They screwed up evey pick except one, IMO, and for that they DO NOT GET "CREDIT".
Maybin has a much faster first step than Orakpo and is overall a better football player.

Maybin also has that "relentless" quality about him that Orakpo and E. Brown dont have as much of.

Although Duke Robinson is a solid G prospect Levitre brings attitude, grit and intelligence which was key for the Bills.

Dockery was a powerful G but not to clever. Our line just got 10x smarter this offseason with the additions of Hangartner, Wood and Levitre. We also got 10x tougher and scrappier.


And even though you already know this but are just using it to further your agenda....

Nic Harris is a LB NOT A SAFETY

Byrd will play safety for us WHICH IS A POSITION OF NEED. Bryan Scott is not the answer.

The 2 CBs in the sixth and seventh are competition for Corner and Fox who maybe they dont like as much. Its important to have a reliable CB group these days will all the multiple receiver sets teams are going with.

[psubills62]

Maybin has a much faster first step than Orakpo and is overall a better football player.

Maybin also has that "relentless" quality about him that Orakpo and E. Brown dont have as much of.

Although Duke Robinson is a solid G prospect Levitre brings attitude, grit and intelligence which was key for the Bills.

Dockery was a powerful G but not to clever. Our line just got 10x smarter this offseason with the additions of Hangartner, Wood and Levitre. We also got 10x tougher and scrappier.


And even though you already know this but are just using it to further your agenda....

Nic Harris is a LB NOT A SAFETY

Byrd will play safety for us WHICH IS A POSITION OF NEED. Bryan Scott is not the answer.

The 2 CBs in the sixth and seventh are competition for Corner and Fox who maybe they dont like as much. Its important to have a reliable CB group these days will all the multiple receiver sets teams are going with.

To add to this excellent review, I'm going to guess that Lankster will be used similarly to Kennard Cox was in camp last year. They'll probably see how Lankster does at CB and S, as he can also add depth to the safety position. He'll most likely be on the PS if anything, but that's probably how they'll use him in camp.

[yordad]

Maybin has a much faster first step than Orakpo and is overall a better football player.

Maybin also has that "relentless" quality about him that Orakpo and E. Brown dont have as much of.

Although Duke Robinson is a solid G prospect Levitre brings attitude, grit and intelligence which was key for the Bills.

Dockery was a powerful G but not to clever. Our line just got 10x smarter this offseason with the additions of Hangartner, Wood and Levitre. We also got 10x tougher and scrappier.


And even though you already know this but are just using it to further your agenda....

Nic Harris is a LB NOT A SAFETY

Byrd will play safety for us WHICH IS A POSITION OF NEED. Bryan Scott is not the answer.

The 2 CBs in the sixth and seventh are competition for Corner and Fox who maybe they dont like as much. Its important to have a reliable CB group these days will all the multiple receiver sets teams are going with.My agenda? You mean the Bills winning? Playoffs maybe? Yeah, I have an agenda, and it isn't for front office openings so I can send my resume. I have no reason to be agianst anyone hear.

Plan and simple, I was hoping and hoping, and highfiving evey pick that ticked down to 11. I knew Orakpo was the best fit at DE for us. I was super pumped when he FELL to 11. Maybin was a backup plan.

Now we have 3 starting caliber guards and only 1 tackle. Sweet!! Now we have ANOTHER converted saftey competing with Ellison for a starting sopt! Sweet.

I swear we drafted for special teams.

[Mahdi]

My agenda? You mean the Bills winning? Playoffs maybe? Yeah, I have an agenda, and it isn't for front office openings so I can send my resume. I have no reason to be agianst anyone hear.

Plan and simple, I was hoping and hoping, and highfiving evey pick that ticked down to 11. I knew Orakpo was the best fit at DE for us. I was super pumped when he FELL to 11. Maybin was a backup plan.

Now we have 3 starting caliber guards and only 1 tackle. Sweet!! Now we have ANOTHER converted saftey competing with Ellison for a starting sopt! Sweet.

I swear we drafted for special teams.
Well you keep distorting the facts claiming they drafted 4 DBs to make them look dumb when you know thats not the case.

[yordad]

Well you keep distorting the facts claiming they drafted 4 DBs to make them look dumb when you know thats not the case.The dude has been listed as a safety. They appearently plan to make him a LB, but he is even more undersized then the non-block-shedding-tackle dummy we have playing the strong side already. I don't think the dude will play either. My guess, he will be a special teamer for a few years. Hardly qualifies as drafting a front 7 player IMO.

[Mahdi]

The dude has been listed as a safety. They appearently plan to make him a LB, but he is even more undersized then the non-block-shedding-tackle dummy we have playing the strong side already. I don't think the dude will play either. My guess, he will be a special teamer for a few years. Hardly qualifies as drafting a front 7 player IMO.
Ellison is 6'0 229...

Nic Harris is 6'3 234... and he actually had to work hard to keep his weight down at Oklahoma so he could play safety.

Bills FO said he should be around 240-243 by the season which makes him bigger than Poz.

[yordad]

Ellison is 6'0 229...

Nic Harris is 6'3 234... and he actually had to work hard to keep his weight down at Oklahoma so he could play safety.

Bills FO said he should be around 240-243 by the season which makes him bigger than Poz.OK, so your on the Nic Harris fanwagon. I'm not, just yet. We could have Drafted Marcus Freeman with that pick. He has cover 2 OLB writen all over him.

Are you trying to tell me Harris is a better prospect for OLB then Marcus Freeman who was taken by the Bears (who play a cover 2) 7 picks later in the 5th (and could have went as high as the second round)?

[Mahdi]

OK, so your on the Nic Harris fanwagon. I'm not, just yet. We could have Drafted Marcus Freeman with that pick. He has cover 2 OLB writen all over him.

Are you trying to tell me Harris is a better prospect for OLB then Marcus Freeman who was taken by the Bears (who play a cover 2) 7 picks later in the 5th (and could have went as high as the second round)?
Th Bills obviously made the choice that Harris was a better prospect for them. Maybe they like his versatility and pass coverage better than Freeman.

[The Spaz]

If people want to talk about size Marcus Freeman is way smaller than Nic Harris.

[yordad]

If people want to talk about size Marcus Freeman is way smaller than Nic Harris.Freeman is listed 5 lbs heavier. Dude, you never seen either play, probably never watched a highlight, and can't even google accurately. Just stop.

Freeman has experience at OLB, and would come to camp as my favorite as the starter. Harris is a project. Another project.

[The Spaz]

Freeman is listed 5 lbs heavier. Dude, you never seen either play, probably never watched a highlight, and can't even google accurately. Just stop.

Freeman has experience at OLB, and would come to camp as my favorite as the starter. Harris is a project. Another project.
Nic Harris is 6-3 235 and can get a lot bigger.

Edited for multiple TOS violations. ~shelby

[yordad]

You are the one that is full of ****. Nic Harris is 6-3 235 and can get a lot bigger. I haven't seen him play? You are full of it. I watch a **** load of NCAA football. Who the F are you to tell me I don't watch games? Why can't I google properly? Piss the **** off you ignorant POS.Well, you haven't exactly been inciteful this entire thread. And, the lone fact you tried to add was inaccurate. Freeman is heavier then 235.

I feel like I should add "I know you are but what am I". I mean seriously, grow up.

[TheMan08]

Bottomline is Bills had Harris rated higher. That's what it comes down to. We as fans, even scouts all rate people differently. Both could be good players, but they likely chose him based on fact he is better vs pass.

[The Spaz]

Well, you haven't exactly been inciteful this entire thread. And, the lone fact you tried to add was inaccurate. Freeman is heavier then 235.

OMG he's 239 what a difference wow. Still a fact is Harris is taller and a negative to Freeman is he's small for a LB.

[The Spaz]

Well, you haven't exactly been inciteful this entire thread. And, the lone fact you tried to add was inaccurate. Freeman is heavier then 235.

I feel like I should add "I know you are but what am I". I mean seriously, grow up.

Who's the one that needs to grow up telling me I can't google or haven't watched games? Practice what you preach.

[yordad]

Th Bills obviously made the choice that Harris was a better prospect for them. Maybe they like his versatility and pass coverage better than Freeman.OK, who did YOU feel was the better prospect prior to the draft?

[TheMan08]

The knock on Freeman I read was...

Average height and bulk...Is not very physical...Won't deliver the big hit...Has trouble shedding blocks...Isn't a great blitzer...Leaves his legs vulnerable...Still needs to get stronger...Marginal hands and ball skills...Was better as a junior than as a senior...Durability is a concern. Underwent surgery to repair a torn meniscus after the 2007 season

[BillsWin]

The thing is, he is our man. he is the one we wanted and got him at a great price.

[Mahdi]

OK, who did YOU feel was the better prospect prior to the draft?
Before the draft looking purely at OLBs Freeman would have been the natural choice. However, I am not in the Bills draft room and am not aware of what exactly they are looking for.

Like I said Harris offers playmaking, instincts, pass coverage which he had as a safety and he is taller with the ability to add more weight. Probably more than Freeman.

[yordad]

Bottomline is Bills had Harris rated higher. That's what it comes down to. We as fans, even scouts all rate people differently. Both could be good players, but they likely chose him based on fact he is better vs pass.That is not what it comes down to. Production is what is comes down to. Time will tell. At this point it is opinion. IMO, it was the wrong pick, and it isn't even close.

[The Spaz]

Oh ok, it was a misunderstanding. You misunderstand the meaning of the words you used. You see, "smaller" and "shorter" are two different things. One refers to mass, which translates to weight (here on Earth), while the other refers to a distance. So, you just don't understand measurments. :goodpost:

:rofl:

[yordad]

Before the draft looking purely at OLBs Freeman would have been the natural choice. However, I am not in the Bills draft room and am not aware of what exactly they are looking for.
Well according to Spaz, feeling Freeman was a more natural choice makes you a queer. You can't have a different opionion, or else you are gay. We somehow couldn't just have a grownup discussion amonst ourselves without spaz trying to bring me down to his level.

I however cannot change my opinion based on who the Bills like more. I still feel Freeman will be more successful in this league and I believe we made the wrong choice. I guess there are no wrong answers... at this point.