Bills copying Colts, Bears to an extent

[kid mickey]

In a lot of different aspects of the game. They are making a different kind of mark though.

They get bigger linebackers than the Colts to be stout against the run. Poz is your run stuffer who plays the middle field in coverage, while Mitchell covers the TE and now with Harris coming in he will be responsible for covering the flat areas and playing the RB.

They place a premium on safeties like the Bears one to be a playmaker the other to do everything. Whitner is the do everything guy, while Byrd may be the center fielder making plays.

They place a higher premium on DT's than the Colts do, probably right on par with what the Bears do. They like size at the position. Whereareas the Colts just like gap penetrators. They have Stroud comanding double teams and usually want the other tackle to penetrate. McCargo has yet to adequately do this. Kyle Williams performs admirally considering his draft position.

The Bills are starting to put a premium on rushing the passer. The Colts game is all about this as a defense. They have Freeney and Mathis. Two guys with very quick steps. The Bills brought in Maybin because they feel he can be a bigger guy who can not only bring some heat in the passing game, but be well rounded in the running game as well.

The biggest difference the Bills have on both the Bears and Colts is there corners. They emphasize speed at the position and they don't just play zone they are actually in man a lot. McKelvin is a very well rounded corner, who has speed and McGee isn't slow either. The Bills usually don't draft guys to play corner if they don't run in the 4.3 to 4.5 range. If they drafted a DB that didn't run in that range he is most likely a safety.

[Tatonka]

Re: Bills copying Colts, Bears to an extent

good post.

[Pinkerton Security]

Re: Bills copying Colts, Bears to an extent

I don't think Nic Harris is going to be starting for us any time soon. other than that, i like your logic on these points.

[Mahdi]

Re: Bills copying Colts, Bears to an extent

I don't think Nic Harris is going to be starting for us any time soon. other than that, i like your logic on these points.

Considering who his competition is at the SLB position in Ellison I think he has a pretty good shot of starting.

[EDS]

Re: Bills copying Colts, Bears to an extent

In a lot of different aspects of the game. They are making a different kind of mark though.

They get bigger linebackers than the Colts to be stout against the run. Poz is your run stuffer who plays the middle field in coverage, while Mitchell covers the TE and now with Harris coming in he will be responsible for covering the flat areas and playing the RB.

They place a premium on safeties like the Bears one to be a playmaker the other to do everything. Whitner is the do everything guy, while Byrd may be the center fielder making plays.

They place a higher premium on DT's than the Colts do, probably right on par with what the Bears do. They like size at the position. Whereareas the Colts just like gap penetrators. They have Stroud comanding double teams and usually want the other tackle to penetrate. McCargo has yet to adequately do this. Kyle Williams performs admirally considering his draft position.

The Bills are starting to put a premium on rushing the passer. The Colts game is all about this as a defense. They have Freeney and Mathis. Two guys with very quick steps. The Bills brought in Maybin because they feel he can be a bigger guy who can not only bring some heat in the passing game, but be well rounded in the running game as well.

The biggest difference the Bills have on both the Bears and Colts is there corners. They emphasize speed at the position and they don't just play zone they are actually in man a lot. McKelvin is a very well rounded corner, who has speed and McGee isn't slow either. The Bills usually don't draft guys to play corner if they don't run in the 4.3 to 4.5 range. If they drafted a DB that didn't run in that range he is most likely a safety.

A couple of points:

The Colts defense is designed to stop the pass because they have such an explosive offense they can more often then not play with a lead which requires the opponent to pass their way back into the game. That being said, their defense is pretty average, at best.

No team drafts corners who run slow. 4.5 is slow for corners these days.

[Mr. Pink]

Re: Bills copying Colts, Bears to an extent

We're copying the Bears and Colts? HA

Where's our pass rush?

Where's our playmaking Safety?

Where's our LBers that fit the scheme?

I could keep going but seriously man, I can't believe people agreed with you on your points.

[kid mickey]

Re: Bills copying Colts, Bears to an extent

A couple of points:

The Colts defense is designed to stop the pass because they have such an explosive offense they can more often then not play with a lead which requires the opponent to pass their way back into the game. That being said, their defense is pretty average, at best.

No team drafts corners who run slow. 4.5 is slow for corners these days.

For the most part I like your points except your last one. The Colts and Bears are heavy on their zone scheme. They get corners that run in the 4.5 to 4.7 range because they can have these guys sit in zones and wait for the opposing QB to force the ball out or make a bad decision because of the generated pass rush by the DE's. They rarely are ever playing a man scheme. When was the last time you seen the Colts or Bears draft a CB in the first round? They get zone guys who usually do not press wide outs. You would be surprised then to know that Corner, McGee, Youboty, Lankster, all run around 4.45-4.5 speed. Don't know what C. Harris runs.

[kid mickey]

Re: Bills copying Colts, Bears to an extent

We're copying the Bears and Colts? HA

Where's our pass rush?

Where's our playmaking Safety?

Where's our LBers that fit the scheme?

I could keep going but seriously man, I can't believe people agreed with you on your points.

You should be surprised to know that the Colts were 11th in the league while the Bears were 21st then. I am not saying we are complete yet, but I do believe this team got three guys that they(Bills Brass) believe are the missing pieces to the puzzle to make a jump into the top ten D's in the league.

[Mahdi]

Re: Bills copying Colts, Bears to an extent

We're copying the Bears and Colts? HA

Where's our pass rush?

Where's our playmaking Safety?

Where's our LBers that fit the scheme?

I could keep going but seriously man, I can't believe people agreed with you on your points.

I think the whole point is that we addressed the pass rush, playmaking safety and LBs who fit the scheme in the draft.

We did draft Maybin, Byrd and Harris yesterday did we not?

[Mr. Pink]

Re: Bills copying Colts, Bears to an extent

I think the whole point is that we addressed the pass rush, playmaking safety and LBs who fit the scheme in the draft.

We did draft Maybin, Byrd and Harris yesterday did we not?

That gives us maybe one guy who can supply pass rush...I'll be optimistic and say it works out. The Colts have Freeney and Mathis who both get after it. If Maybin is a "stud" he'll be doubled and taken out of many plays because outside of Stroud no one else on our line to worry about.

Harris is a project obviously, seeing we're converting him from safety to LB. Will he make the transition? Who's to know or say...It's definitely a step towards filling our needs though, I'll give you that.

I'm not a fan of the Byrd pick at all to be honest. I think it's a complete waste. We needed a Safety so why take a corner to convert? Why not just take one of the top 3 safeties in the draft in William Moore? Oh wait, that would make sense. The pick is truly a head scratcher.

[Mahdi]

Re: Bills copying Colts, Bears to an extent

That gives us maybe one guy who can supply pass rush...I'll be optimistic and say it works out. The Colts have Freeney and Mathis who both get after it. If Maybin is a "stud" he'll be doubled and taken out of many plays because outside of Stroud no one else on our line to worry about.

Harris is a project obviously, seeing we're converting him from safety to LB. Will he make the transition? Who's to know or say...It's definitely a step towards filling our needs though, I'll give you that.

I'm not a fan of the Byrd pick at all to be honest. I think it's a complete waste. We needed a Safety so why take a corner to convert? Why not just take one of the top 3 safeties in the draft in William Moore? Oh wait, that would make sense. The pick is truly a head scratcher.

Maybe Byrd offers a skill set Moore doesn't have.

Byrd is not just a playmaker. He is a great open field tackler and he is tough. Playing CB in college means he has good coverage skills which allows him to come down and cover a receiver if he needs to. Moore cant do that.

[Don't Panic]

Re: Bills copying Colts, Bears to an extent

Good post, mickey. I was thinking about that the other day... how in year four of the Cover 2 we may finally have gotten it to semi-elite status. At a minimum, this should be the best defense we have fielded in the Jauron Era.

The thing I still don't get about the safeties is why you need a strong and a free. If they are simply splitting the field in half, does it really matter that one can do things much better than the other? I would guess certain situations would call for this as a need, but not many. I'd just want two hard hitters with decent read and react ability back there...

I love what our corners should be able to do in this system this year. With a little bit more of a pass rush, they will be able to be ball hawking in many more situations, which should lead to a spike in INTs. We are going to have four quality guys out there in dime... that is a huge asset.

The only one who can really make or break this defense this year is Schoebel. If he has a career year and Maybin does simply the minimum of what is expected, watch out. if not, we are going to look a lot like the Ds of old... bend, bend, bend, break.

[Mr. Pink]

Re: Bills copying Colts, Bears to an extent

Maybe Byrd offers a skill set Moore doesn't have.

Byrd is not just a playmaker. He is a great open field tackler and he is tough. Playing CB in college means he has good coverage skills which allows him to come down and cover a receiver if he needs to. Moore cant do that.

Except the Safeties in a cover 2 don't need to be able to come down and cover a wr. They just play in space and cover areas...so Byrd's coverage skills are completely negated and useless because of the scheme we run.

There is a learning curve that is undergone from being a corner to being a safety...why not just take someone who already is knowledgable about the position and his responsibility as a Safety, instead of going with a project.

Especially when it's the 2nd round.

[Mahdi]

Re: Bills copying Colts, Bears to an extent

Except the Safeties in a cover 2 don't need to be able to come down and cover a wr. They just play in space and cover areas...so Byrd's coverage skills are completely negated and useless because of the scheme we run.

There is a learning curve that is undergone from being a corner to being a safety...why not just take someone who already is knowledgable about the position and his responsibility as a Safety, instead of going with a project.

Especially when it's the 2nd round.

First of all the Cover 2 is a concept not a set of rules. Our safeties are used in nickel situations a lot actually and they also come to the LOS sometimes to cover TEs.

Second, making the move from CB to S is not difficult. It is an easier position to play and if you put an instinctive CB at safety (assuming he has the size to play it which Byrd does) what you'll get often is a playmaker back there since he doesn't have to worry about covering a WR but just using his instincts to make plays in space.

[kid mickey]

Re: Bills copying Colts, Bears to an extent

Actually Whitner is a safety that can play the 3rd WR. He does it really well. That was also something the DB coach said about Byrd as well. The thing I like most about Byrd is that he seems to have a similar skill set to Donte. With Donte being meaner in his hits and Byrd being the guy who could get you the picks. I like this dynamic and both these guys are the exact same size. I am looking forward to seeing what they can do together. Also it really isn't that hard of a transition for corner to make the switch to safety when you are already safety size and have safety skills. Its harder to make a safety into a cornerback.