My Next-Day Post Draft Thoughts

[patmoran2006]

I’ve learned over the years to try and wait a full day after the draft is over before posting my thoughts. It helps prevent me from the typical instant over-reaction immediately following a pick. As anyone who’s read the threads this weekend can see, I’ve refrained from any pick commentary. I’ll also keep as brief as possible since I’m sure opinions have been read dozens of times over by now.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
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Anyway, here are mine.<o:p></o:p>
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Rd 1. Aaron Maybin, DE: I absolutely love this pick. I’ve been telling friends and fans over the past week that this is the guy I wanted at #11 badly (Lecter will testify to this from Friday night). I think of all the pass rushers in the draft, he has the most upside, and that included Orakpo and Brown. I know many are surprised the Bills passed on Orakpo, but given his analysis and Texas’ long history of early round busts, I’m glad we did. Maybin is going to be a beast for us over time. More than that, I love his attitude, and unlike last year’s pick (McKelvin), Maybin is an excellent communicator (not suggesting picks should be made on that, but I consider it a bonus). People absolute must not be quick to judge Maybin: I still think his best days will come eventually as a 3-4 rush linebacker in the mold of Terrell Suggs once this team finally scrapes this cover two, which I think happens after this season. Regardless if it’s a 4-3 or 3-4, I think Maybin is going to grow into a great player. If I were the Bills GM picking 11<SUP>th</SUP>, I’d have done the exact same thing.<o:p></o:p>
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Rd 1: Eric Wood, G: I was mildly surprised by this pick, but after digesting it I like it. Look, anyone who watched the games last year saw how terrible we were in the interior of the offensive line. It had to be addressed sooner than later. Wood isn’t a reach; many mocks I saw had him going at the end of the first to Arizona or Pittsburgh. He’s a tough nose guy that will knock people around, and this team, with our running game, needs that badly. This isn’t the fanciest of picks, but I like it a lot. He should be the starting left guard from day one.<o:p></o:p>
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Rd 2: Jarius Byrd, DB: My first reaction to this outrage. Admittedly, it was because I thought it was already a pre 2010 strike to replace Terrence McGee. That’s been our history far too often. However, after learning we plan to use him as safety I came around to the pick. The bottom line is our safeties are not turnover machines. Whitner, Simpson, Wilson, Scott; they don’t make interceptions.. This kid had a lot of them in college. We need a ballhawk at FS. This keeps Whitner at SS and maybe with a better defender at FS it opens up more things for him. Still a little surprised we didn’t take a more ‘established’ safety from college, but after Chung (and he was already gone) there wasn’t anyone I really wanted. I still don’t love this pick, but it’s hard to argue that it doesn’t make sense. I’ve been saying for a while safety is a very underated need and the team addressed it.<o:p></o:p>
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Rd 2: Andy Levitre, OL: This was another pick I was originally unhappy about. The one thing I didn’t want early in this draft was a freegin tackle. Shore up the middle of the line! I was pleased to learn soon thereafter that he projects to guard. Unlike Wood, I do not think he starts as a rookie. I think he backs up both guard spots in year one. But I’m OK with that. I think Butler stays at RG, for now. And if he underperforms again (I thought he did big time last year) he can move to right tackle, or be replaced altogether. This team has been woeful for years at offensive line, both in starting talent and depth, and the Bills are doing something about it. You can never have too much offensive line talent. I’m much happier we went OG again than I thought I’d be. I personally preferred Duke Robinson, but apparently he was overvalued in mocks as he stayed on the board quite a while later. <o:p></o:p>
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Rd4: Shawn Nelson, TE: Could be my second favorite pick of this draft.. Without getting into much detail, he’s exactly what this offense needs. .He will stretch the field and make life easier on Trent Edwards. I love this pick. It took the Bills what, 15 seconds to make the pick? Love it<o:p></o:p>
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Rd 5: Nic Harris, LB: I really hate the cover two defense, but since we insist on playing it, I have no problem with this pick, though I preferred Marcus Freeman here. Harris is in the mold of former Dallas safety Roy Williams, who should’ve been a LB. Assuming the Bills don’t make any more moves in FA to address LB, he has a chance to come and take some playing time away from Ellison this year. Again, I was preferring Freeman but I don’t hate this pick at all.<o:p></o:p>
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I’m not going to comment about the last two picks, because frankly I think they’re irrelevant; plus I don’t care. Maybe one makes the practice squad.<o:p></o:p>
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My Overall Conclusion: Love this draft. For once, the team stuck to what it really needed to do most; get better and bigger up front. Maybin should help the pass rush in a big way, and the offensive line got a lot stronger. As a whole, I would grade this draft as the best the Bills have had since 2001, when we got Clements, Schobel and Henry in the first two rounds and other usesful players (Jennings, Spoon, etc) later on.<o:p></o:p>
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QUICK JASON PETERS NOTE: I said right after the trade, that I would hate the trade if we used a first rounder on a tackle to replace. WE didn’t, therefore I don’t hate the trade anymore. Chambers and Bell will compete for RT, and I’m OK with that, with possibly Butler returning to the tackle mix. They took a much needed guard and a tight end with the two picks they got from Philly, and they saved a boatload of money in the process. The trade looks nowhere as bad to me now.<o:p></o:p>
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PHILLY TRADE NOTE: I was highly critical of the Bills getting the 28<SUP>th</SUP> pick instead of #21 from Philadelphia. Once again, it was the right move for Buffalo. The Bills obviously had a plan in place to address interior offensive line at #28. They didn’t need the 21<SUP>st</SUP> pick. At #21 they might’ve taken Wood (or Mack) anyway, and it would’ve costed them more money. So getting the #28 instead allowed them to get the same guy, and at a cheaper rate.<o:p></o:p>
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FINAL MCCARGO NOTE: Not taking a DT in this draft, one of the few things I didn’t like about it as a whole, shows that the team may give John McCargo one more real opportunity to make his mark on this team. They go into camp with four DT’s and McCargo will get a chance, assuredly for the final time, to show something.<o:p></o:p>

[Pinkerton Security]

:goodpost:

[kid mickey]

Look I hate to be a negative nancy to your post, but if the Bills scrapped the defensive system than pretty much every guy on the defensive side of the ball would have to go. Then you would be talking about rebuilding all over for one guy. Honestly I don't think they gave the reigns to Dick Jauron because they plan on scrapping the scheme. The scheme works o.k. The problem is playmakers. They addressed it with Maybin, Byrd, and Harris. They got guys who can come in and be instrumental to contributing turnovers. I am not saying guys like Whitner can't do this, its just when they have to move all over the field and play basically every DB position its kinda hard to make plays.

[billsfanone]

Be honest. You wait a day to see what others are saying first.

[patmoran2006]

Be honest. You wait a day to see what others are saying first.
No..If I had made posts in the minutes after the Byrd and Levitre picks I might've been getting a weeks' vacation from here.

[ct bills fan]

You're dead on about the Nelson pick. I was at the draft and it literally took the bills 15 seconds to get the card in. Buffalo was very well represented. A bunch of us were waiting from 10am to around 1:30 for Buffalo's first 2nd day pick. From the onset we wanted Nelson, but, didn't think he'd last. When he was still available, we all looked at eachother and said, "it's obvious, right?" Needless to say the Bills fans went nuts when we actually did the obvious.

[kid mickey]

On a side note. At first I liked Freeman, but than realized that he can't get any bigger and has durability issues. Looking at Nic Harris the guy is 6'2 and 234 lbs. He has a lot more room to grow, but he doesn't need to get over 240. Plus he has solid cover skills. I can envision him shutting the Patriots screen down. Faulk who? I like what the Bills are trying to do.

[Mahdi]

Agree with everything.

Only thing is I think Levitre starts day one. They traded up to get him and I think he fits at G better than Butler does. Butler is too tall and lanky to be effective as a run blocker.

I think and it might seem crazy, Bell will be our LT day one and Walker will stay at RT. Butler will be the backup at RG and RT along with Chambers.

Bell - Wood - Hangartner - Levitre - Walker

[Mr. Pink]

Good write up Pat, well thought out, don't completely agree...but good job nonetheless.

[The Juice Is Loose]

Pat, I'm going to take your approach next year. All along I said I didn't want Orakpo, and when our number came up, I was like "Orakpo!"

I fell victim to the hype. And to me, I always considered Maybin too small.

But after absorbing it. Looking more into Maybin as a player and watching his interviews, I now love the pick as well. He's just a Buffalo Bill and you realize that when you hear him.

[Pinkerton Security]

Agree with everything.

Only thing is I think Levitre starts day one. They traded up to get him and I think he fits at G better than Butler does. Butler is too tall and lanky to be effective as a run blocker.

I think and it might seem crazy, Bell will be our LT day one and Walker will stay at RT. Butler will be the backup at RG and RT along with Chambers.

Bell - Wood - Hangartner - Levitre - Walker

I just doubt a rookie is going to step in and take Butler's spot that he has been in for 2(?) years, at least right away. How the o-line shakes out will obviously be the huge storyline for training camp.

[Mahdi]

I just doubt a rookie is going to step in and take Butler's spot that he has been in for 2(?) years, at least right away. How the o-line shakes out will obviously be the huge storyline for training camp.
Well there's a reason they gave away a 3rd rounder to get him. Butler was a 5th round project that is a serviceable G but I dont think he is the Road Grader type they want on the interior.

I think the Bills realize they are a grind it out team, especially with the weather the way it is and they need to be able to impose their will in the run game.

Levitre and Wood are exactly that and if Bell doesn't start day 1 at LT then Walker will go to LT and it will be between Butler and Bell on the right side.

[Tatonka]

great post pat.

and i agree totally on the mccargo note.. new dline coach gets a shot at him to see if last year was a wake up call.

[ct bills fan]

one thing - if they would have received #21 instead of #28, would they have taken Oher instead of Wood? My guess is probably yes.

[BillsWin]

Pat Moran, that was some stellar posting.

[patmoran2006]

one thing - if they would have received #21 instead of #28, would they have taken Oher instead of Wood? My guess is probably yes.
I don't think so.. I honestly think with or without Peters they identified the interior of the OL as weaker than the outside. They cut Dockery with no replacement lined up, and they didnt even come close to resigning Fowler or Preston, as either starters or backups.

Maybe they live to regret it, but I think the bills thinking is Chambers is good enough to start at RT, with maybe Bell to push him.

I still think Butler stays at RG, at least for now, though I'd rather see him eventually move to right tackle (or another team)

[Mahdi]

one thing - if they would have received #21 instead of #28, would they have taken Oher instead of Wood? My guess is probably yes.
I would rather have the top interior linemen over the 4th OT. LOVE the Wood pick as much as I love the Maybin pick.

[TedMock]

Most "big boards" had Levitre as the top guard in the draft. I was thrilled with that pick. I was thrilled with Wood and I was thrilled with Nelson. I like Maybin, Byrd, Nic and Carey Harris. I don't know enough about Lankster.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

The biggest praise people gave OBD this time around is that they didn't become reactionary because of Peters trade (i.e. reaching for a tackle like Oher).

[patmoran2006]

By the way, 100% pure opinion here. But if I were the Bills and Maybin was gone and we couldn’t move down the board, my next pick would’ve been Cushing ahead of Orakpo or Brown.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
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I think Cushing is going to be good in the NFL.<o:p></o:p>

[Pinkerton Security]

Most "big boards" had Levitre as the top guard in the draft. I was thrilled with that pick. I was thrilled with Wood and I was thrilled with Nelson. I like Maybin, Byrd, Nic and Carey Harris. I don't know enough about Lankster.

Lankster was a special teams ace...pretty sure thats why we got him.

[BillsWin]

Lankster was a special teams ace...pretty sure thats why we got him.

True or False, Bobby April has more influence on who we draft than any other coach on staff?

[madness]

Great write-up, Pat. Wise decision of holding back from here for a day.

I think Butler returns to his original position at RT and both Wood and Levitre start inside.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

Love and agree with everything you said except that Butler played bad at times. I guess I missed it cause I thought he was our best lineman last year. I really want to see him on the outside cause his size is much better for tackle than guard. With us trading up to get Levitre it has me believing that he will be the starting guard. This is how I see it shaking out

LT-Walker LG-Levitre C-Hangartner RG-Wood RT-Butler.

Call me crazy but I really love that line. Tough, nasty, blue collar rag tag group. They bring there lunch pails and they are Assembly Line.

[SquishDaFish]

Look I hate to be a negative nancy to your post, but if the Bills scrapped the defensive system than pretty much every guy on the defensive side of the ball would have to go. Then you would be talking about rebuilding all over for one guy. Honestly I don't think they gave the reigns to Dick Jauron because they plan on scrapping the scheme. The scheme works o.k. The problem is playmakers. They addressed it with Maybin, Byrd, and Harris. They got guys who can come in and be instrumental to contributing turnovers. I am not saying guys like Whitner can't do this, its just when they have to move all over the field and play basically every DB position its kinda hard to make plays.

You are wrong. Just because they scrap the cover 2 doesnt mean we need all new players. Most of the players can play 3-4 4-3 instead of cover 2. Very few would need replacing

[SquishDaFish]

And Pat Awesome job bro. Agree completely

[Dr. Lecter]

You are wrong. Just because they scrap the cover 2 doesnt mean we need all new players. Most of the players can play 3-4 4-3 instead of cover 2. Very few would need replacing

The Bills would have no D-line. Stroud could stay in a 3-4, playing DE. Maybe Denney (due to his height) too.

They have no NT. And the LBs would need major re-organization, although Mitchell could kick inside in a 3-4.

[Mr. Pink]

You are wrong. Just because they scrap the cover 2 doesnt mean we need all new players. Most of the players can play 3-4 4-3 instead of cover 2. Very few would need replacing

I'll go a step further than Lecter.

We also don't have the LBers for a 3-4 nor the cover corners.

We literally have maybe, and this might be stretching it, 3 guys who could play in the 3-4 effectively.

Stroud, Poz, Mitchell.

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

"For once, the team stuck to what it really needed to do most"

They did it last year.

[Pinkerton Security]

I'll go a step further than Lecter.

We also don't have the LBers for a 3-4 nor the cover corners.

We literally have maybe, and this might be stretching it, 3 guys who could play in the 3-4 effectively.

Stroud, Poz, Mitchell.
uhh Mckelvin is a decent cover corner? Maybin as an OLB would work.

also, I dont know if the responsibilities for a safety are that much different in a 3-4, but I'd say Whitner would be fine in a 3-4.

[Dr. Lecter]

McKelvin would work.

Whitner would too, maybe even at CB (where he probably should be anyway).

Maybin would be an OLB.

[Mr. Pink]

Eh, no idea if McKelvin would work at this level as a cover corner yet.

Yeah, he'd play there but it doesn't mean he would be a success.

Whitner wouldn't have a place on the team in a different scheme in my opinion, he's quickly losing his place already as it is.

[Pinkerton Security]

Eh, no idea if McKelvin would work at this level as a cover corner yet.

Yeah, he'd play there but it doesn't mean he would be a success.

Whitner wouldn't have a place on the team in a different scheme in my opinion, he's quickly losing his place already as it is.

well thats your opinion but i dont see whitner as "quickly losing" his spot at all.

[Mahdi]

I'll go a step further than Lecter.

We also don't have the LBers for a 3-4 nor the cover corners.

We literally have maybe, and this might be stretching it, 3 guys who could play in the 3-4 effectively.

Stroud, Poz, Mitchell.
3-4 Potential - - Stroud (5 tech DE), Mitchell (ILB), Poz (ILB), Maybin (OLB), Spencer Johnson (5 tech DE), McCargo (5 tech DE MAYBE)



There is no such thing as a 3-4 DB so its irrelevant.

Guys who dont fit... K.Williams, Schobel, Kelsay, Denney (too light in the pants), Ellison, Bowen, Digi.

Would need to acquire a NT and at least 1 other 5 technique DE preferably 2 as well as another 2 or 3 OLB prospects and depth for both ILB spots. This conversion would require signing a couple of players and using almost a full draft to fill the rest like the Packers did.

[Dr. Lecter]

DB's in a non cover-2 type of scheme need to be good in man-to-man coverage, whereas cover-2 CBs need to efficient in Zone coverage, so there is a difference.

[kid mickey]

Bottom line is we don't have the personnel to play the 3-4. Poz could play ILB and so could Mitchell, but we have no NT. We have maybe one DE in Stroud. You gotta be at 300 lbs to do it. You gotta have bigger corners. Guys that are pretty much strictly man guys who will jam receivers at the line. You gotta have OLB's that rush the QB and also cover. Who would do this? Maybin would have to work on his coverage ability. Schobel has no place on that type of team, Kelsay sucks no matter where he plays, Denney wouldn't really be much of an option either. The safeties would be O.K I believe, but still you are lacking NT, DE, OLB, CB, and then lets not forget about depth at the postion. I honestly don't see it. This team simply lacks size to do something like that.

[Saratoga Slim]

Pat - this is the first draft year that I've agreed with you 100%, great post.

I'll add this regarding the Jason Peters trade: if Walker or Bell can play at least competently (i.e. as well or better than Peters did last year) at LT, then trading Peters will have been arguably a great move, as it allowed us the picks we needed to completely remake the interior of our OL. Without the Peters trade, we would not have had #28, or the extra 4th we used to trade up and get Levitre. A competent LT and a fantastic interior OL could pay bigger dividends than a Pro-Bowl LT and a crappy interior.

[Mahdi]

DB's in a non cover-2 type of scheme need to be good in man-to-man coverage, whereas cover-2 CBs need to efficient in Zone coverage, so there is a difference.
Most good DBs can play any scheme. In the NFL every defense plays some man and some cover 2 when yer talking about the defensive backfield.

Now, some defenses are full out cover 2 like Buffalo and Chicago which means their front 7 are also involved in the cover 2 scheme in the way they move, cover, and cover their gaps with regards to the DL and LBs.

So saying McGee and Mckelvin cant play in a man 2 man scheme makes no sense. They already do play man coverage at times. In fact the exact reason they drafted Mckelvin so high is because they have more elements of Man 2 man defense in their scheme than most other cover 2 teams.

[Mr. Pink]

McGee is an absolutely brutal cover corner.

There's a reason why many call him Toast.

Ask Ted Ginn Jr.

We have smurfs as corners who aren't physical. In a 3-4 you need to be physical, get up in the receivers face and jam them at the line. Even Deion Sanders used to be physical at the line even though he couldn't tackle.

Greer was the closest this team had to a physical corner.

[Dr. Lecter]

Don't use the Miami game as a way to evaluate McGee. We both know he should not have been out there.

[EDS]

Agree with everything.

Only thing is I think Levitre starts day one. They traded up to get him and I think he fits at G better than Butler does. Butler is too tall and lanky to be effective as a run blocker.

I think and it might seem crazy, Bell will be our LT day one and Walker will stay at RT. Butler will be the backup at RG and RT along with Chambers.

Bell - Wood - Hangartner - Levitre - Walker

That is basically starting three rookies on the o-line. I am not sure that is in the teams best interest, thought we can only hope those guys are good enough to earn those positions - the sooner the better.

[EDS]

Look I hate to be a negative nancy to your post, but if the Bills scrapped the defensive system than pretty much every guy on the defensive side of the ball would have to go. Then you would be talking about rebuilding all over for one guy. Honestly I don't think they gave the reigns to Dick Jauron because they plan on scrapping the scheme. The scheme works o.k. The problem is playmakers. They addressed it with Maybin, Byrd, and Harris. They got guys who can come in and be instrumental to contributing turnovers. I am not saying guys like Whitner can't do this, its just when they have to move all over the field and play basically every DB position its kinda hard to make plays.


Why would they have the scrap every player? Schobel, Kelsay, Denney and McGee were all drafted pre cover two. Stroud and Mitchell have played in more traditional schemes. McKelvin, Whitner and Poz all should be able to transition to a better scheme.

Making the switch to a full time 3-4 won't be easy, but a traditional 4-3 is not a problem.

[Mr. Pink]

Why would they have the scrap every player? Schobel, Kelsay, Denney and McGee were all drafted pre cover two. Stroud and Mitchell have played in more traditional schemes. McKelvin, Whitner and Poz all should be able to transition to a better scheme.

Making the switch to a full time 3-4 won't be easy, but a traditional 4-3 is not a problem.


A 4-3 would be easier to transition to definitely...we wouldn't have as many changes to make outside of the secondary.

[Michael82]

Great post, pat! :bf1:

[elltrain22]

Nice post Pat!! I surprised you didn't mention Cary Harris. Personally, I like this kid's potential. If we stay patient and develop him, I like the potential. I also liked your analysis on Aaron Maybin, and couldn't agree more w/ your assessment.

IMO, you're the post and most informative poster on this board. I always read everything you write!!

[HHURRICANE]

Nice post Pat.

1) Maybin or Orakpo. Coin flip at this point but I think the Bills had to go DE and I'm happy with the Pick,

2) Wood, I think is the best pick of the draft. He probably starts at guard but I wouldn't be surprised at all if he isn't the starting Center.

3) This team just won't get it. If you get to the QB your secondary doesn't need to be that great. However, if you give Brady all day than it doesn't matter who you have back there because he's going to make completions. Byrd's highlight reel didn't look that impressive to me and I thought it was a dumb pick and still do. Period.

4) Levitre is a good pick on a line that couldn't run the ball up the middle. I agree that he may earn his spot during the season but not at the start.

5) The DB run after this was moronic.

6) Nelson pick is great and he may have a perfect rookie season to get warmed up.

Ellsion and LT are two gaping holes on this team. Anyone who beleives that Chambers, or Bell are anchoring the left side this season won't need to look past pre-season.

[shelby]

Good write up Pat.

[Oaf]

I would have loved to have the 21. Clay Matthews would have been ours and we would still then have a starter in Levitre. That would have been a full A in my books.

[BigZ]

Great Job Pat!

[kernowboy]

On the issue of the 3-4, I think Kyle Williams can play NT like Kelly Gregg in Baltimore and Jay Ratliff in Dallas have done. Neither are massive but can get the job done effectively.

Regarding the draft, I found it mildly disappointing. In terms of grading, I think we are middle of the road. Some teams had outstanding drafts, whilst others had shockers. I think we fall somewhere in the middle.

I thought Maybin was a good pick but I was surprised by the selection of Eric Wood, who I thought was taken too early. Only the Steelers might have been after a C, but then they did have an aging DL to address too.

In Round2, I thought we reached for Byrd. Another sub6ft DB means we lack height in the secondary. Sherrod Martin and Sean Smith were both available and give a big height advantage. Moving up for Levitre makes no sense in my opinion unless we are planning to use him at LG. If we had wanted a RG we could have waited for Kraig Urbik who was there with our third round pick.

Having given up a fourth, we missed the chance of Lawrence Sidbury or Tony Kropog LT. We seem to be placing an awful lot of faith in Bell developing with no safety net. Shawn Nelson was an excellent selection though.

Nick Harris was an interesting pick but in place of Jasper Brinkley and Marcus Freeman? or even LT's like Jamon Meredith or Xavier Fulton? and finally rounded off with two more defensive back selections.

My concerns are we are asking a lot of college guys to come in and play in positions they didn't at college - Wood, Levitre, Harris etc. We seem to have gone berserk on drafting DBs which was unnecessary. As we are unlikely to carry 14 on the roster, I do not see the point of not creating competition across the whole of the roster. Only one selection on the DL was also poor.

Overall I grade the draft as a C.

[Mahdi]

McGee is an absolutely brutal cover corner.

There's a reason why many call him Toast.

Ask Ted Ginn Jr.

We have smurfs as corners who aren't physical. In a 3-4 you need to be physical, get up in the receivers face and jam them at the line. Even Deion Sanders used to be physical at the line even though he couldn't tackle.

Greer was the closest this team had to a physical corner.
McGee is actually a very good cover CB and the fact that you chose the game where he was CLEARLY and admittedly injured to prove your point shows that you have no idea what yer saying regarding McGee.

McGee routinely covers every offense's best WR and does a great job.

[Mahdi]

DB's in a non cover-2 type of scheme need to be good in man-to-man coverage, whereas cover-2 CBs need to efficient in Zone coverage, so there is a difference.
There is a difference yes. But in our defense we play a lot of man.

You do realize that 3-4 teams employ cover 2 schemes as well right. Just because a team lines up in a 3-4 it doesn't mean their DBs are playing man to man.

The Pats routinely line up in 3-4 with their CBs dropping into zone coverage with help over the top.

Every defense in the NFL plays both man and cover 2.

Some teams lean towards cover 2 (Bills, Colts, Bears) some lean to Man coverage (Raiders, Eagles, Broncos)

[Jan Reimers]

Agree with everything.

Only thing is I think Levitre starts day one. They traded up to get him and I think he fits at G better than Butler does. Butler is too tall and lanky to be effective as a run blocker.

I think and it might seem crazy, Bell will be our LT day one and Walker will stay at RT. Butler will be the backup at RG and RT along with Chambers.

Bell - Wood - Hangartner - Levitre - Walker
I think Butler is tremendously undervalued on this board, and will be our RT for a long time.

[Mahdi]

I think Butler is tremendously undervalued on this board, and will be our RT for a long time.
I think Butler is a very good player, dont get me wrong. Im just looking at it as a competition between Walker, Bell and Butler for the 2 starting OT spots and if Bell can reach his potential with his athletic ability he is a prototype LT prospect and Walker is established on the Right side.

Butler can definitely win the battle as one of the top 2 OTs easily though.

That being said I dont think G is Butler's best position. He's a backup there at best.

[casdhf]

He just signed an extension didn't he?

[Mahdi]

He just signed an extension didn't he?
Yeah last offseason I believe. Starter or not, he is valuable as depth.

[Mr. Pink]

McGee is actually a very good cover CB and the fact that you chose the game where he was CLEARLY and admittedly injured to prove your point shows that you have no idea what yer saying regarding McGee.

McGee routinely covers every offense's best WR and does a great job.


He does?

What's Randy Moss done against us? Besides anything he's wanted.

Braylon Edwards?

Larry Fitzgerald?

Laverneus Coles?

But, you're right...a GREAT job.

He has over the top help from a safety in all these situations...however what happens in the 3-4? No help. He's on an island. He gets torched with help now, do you know what would happen if he didn't have any help? Not too mention he's nowhere near physical.

I'm sure you could imagine without me telling you.

[Mahdi]

He does?

What's Randy Moss done against us? Besides anything he's wanted.

Braylon Edwards?

Larry Fitzgerald?

Laverneus Coles?

But, you're right...a GREAT job.

He has over the top help from a safety in all these situations...however what happens in the 3-4? No help. He's on an island. He gets torched with help now, do you know what would happen if he didn't have any help? Not too mention he's nowhere near physical.

I'm sure you could imagine without me telling you.
Larry Fitzgerald torched Greer and Mckelvin....

Braylon Edwards did nothing against McGee on Monday night.

Coles? What exactly has he done against McGee....

Bud yer just firing off random nonsense....

And clearly you do not understand NFL defenses because being a CB in a 3-4 does not mean you are on an island.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

That is basically starting three rookies on the o-line. I am not sure that is in the teams best interest, thought we can only hope those guys are good enough to earn those positions - the sooner the better

Who's this so called 3rd rookie you speak of. Hangartner has 27 starts and has played good while he's in there seems, I wouldn't call him a rookie.

[Mr. Pink]

Larry Fitzgerald torched Greer and Mckelvin....

Braylon Edwards did nothing against McGee on Monday night.

Coles? What exactly has he done against McGee....

Bud yer just firing off random nonsense....

And clearly you do not understand NFL defenses because being a CB in a 3-4 does not mean you are on an island.


:rofl:

If McGee is our BEST cover corner as you want to try and pass off, who is he supposed to cover? The other teams best WR. You did say he did a great job against other teams best WR didn't you? I believe you did.

Great corners, in case you forgot, because we haven't seen one of those in well...years...play on islands.

We let our best cover corner walk in FA.

[Pinkerton Security]

:rofl:

If McGee is our BEST cover corner as you want to try and pass off, who is he supposed to cover? The other teams best WR. You did say he did a great job against other teams best WR didn't you? I believe you did.

Great corners, in case you forgot, because we haven't seen one of those in well...years...play on islands.

We let our best cover corner walk in FA.


you're right, Greer was our best cover corner. That doesn't mean Mcgee is a bad cover corner. He's not outstanding either, but hes good.

[Mahdi]

:rofl:

If McGee is our BEST cover corner as you want to try and pass off, who is he supposed to cover? The other teams best WR. You did say he did a great job against other teams best WR didn't you? I believe you did.

Great corners, in case you forgot, because we haven't seen one of those in well...years...play on islands.

We let our best cover corner walk in FA.
A) I dont think McGee is a great CB as in Champ Bailey, Asamougha, Sanders.... He is a good coverage CB he can play man to man and zone very well and he is usually matched up against other teams top WRs and RARELY do they have a big game against him.

B) Our scheme rarely asks CBs to cover on an island so its irrelevant.

[Mahdi]

you're right, Greer was our best cover corner. That doesn't mean Mcgee is a bad cover corner. He's not outstanding either, but hes good.
Greer was absolutely not our best cover corner. He was picked on routinely by almost every offense we faced. And he has a major weakness on inside routes.

[Mr. Pink]

A) I dont think McGee is a great CB as in Champ Bailey, Asamougha, Sanders.... He is a good coverage CB he can play man to man and zone very well and he is usually matched up against other teams top WRs and RARELY do they have a big game against him.

B) Our scheme rarely asks CBs to cover on an island so its irrelevant.


The whole point of this was you were saying that McGee would fit in a 3-4 defense...my point is he wouldn't.

So it's completely relevant to what the topic is.

He's fine in the scheme we have now, sort of, because he has help every play. In another scheme he wouldn't have help every play.

[Mahdi]

The whole point of this was you were saying that McGee would fit in a 3-4 defense...my point is he wouldn't.

So it's completely relevant to what the topic is.

He's fine in the scheme we have now, sort of, because he has help every play. In another scheme he wouldn't have help every play.
Well then I'll have to tell you once again that being in a 3-4 defense does not change the coverage scheme.

3-4 alignment only has to do with what the front 7 are doing, not the DBs. Not sure where yer getting the idea that a 3-4 defense means no safety help.

[ct bills fan]

Cushing Certainly would have filled the LB "deficiency." Grabbing him at #11 and Brown at #43 would have been nice too.

[Mr. Pink]

Well then I'll have to tell you once again that being in a 3-4 defense does not change the coverage scheme.

3-4 alignment only has to do with what the front 7 are doing, not the DBs. Not sure where yer getting the idea that a 3-4 defense means no safety help.


There isn't safety help every play in the 3-4 scheme.

The Cover 2, the Safeties are responsible for covering over the top...in the 3-4 they have different responsibilities.

Unless we're gonna play a 3-4 C2 hybrid.

When do you see Ed Reed just playing over the top? Or Troy Polamulu? Next to never.

[Pinkerton Security]

Greer was absolutely not our best cover corner. He was picked on routinely by almost every offense we faced. And he has a major weakness on inside routes.

im pretty sure most think he was, even the coaches, considering they put him on Moss and other tops WR's with consistency.

[Mahdi]

There isn't safety help every play in the 3-4 scheme.

The Cover 2, the Safeties are responsible for covering over the top...in the 3-4 they have different responsibilities.

Unless we're gonna play a 3-4 C2 hybrid.

When do you see Ed Reed just playing over the top? Or Troy Polamulu? Next to never.
Every safety plays over the top on some plays and down at the LOS on some plays... its play calling.

Ed Reed plays deep coverage a ton and so does Pola, again it depends on the call.

Im pretty sure you see Donte Whitner playing near the LOS a lot. Which means its cover 3.

When Donte is back deep its Cover 2 or cover 4 or even Man 2 man.

[Michael82]

I was trying to find a certain thread and found this one and figured I would share it. :rofl: I totally forgot that pat was in love with Maybin.

[YardRat]

:lmao: