So... now does the Bills offense look the best (on paper)?

[yordad]

OK, yeah, it's off-season. Everyone's 0-0. You gotta see it to believe it. Blah, blah, blah.

But, now how does the Bills offense look , on paper? They are one LT and a questionable QB away from looking better then anyone, IMO. They look built for the long term too. But.......

What do you think now?

[yordad]

Lee and TO at WR, Single back (Lynch or Jackson), three wide (Reed in the slot), with a tight end (the scary rookie tight end Nelson), a physical interior line.... If the Bills can get adequate QB play, the sky is the limit.

[yordad]

Heck, even their #3 RB Rhodes, and their #4, #5, + #6 WRs are very talented.

[OpIv37]

did it ever occur to you that we may have TWO rookie linemen protecting that questionable QB? NOT a good combination.

[evdawg419]

I'm with you but you're leaving out one important thing. Our offensive line is going to have 3 new starters and all five at a different position than they played most of 2008. While I'm not saying that I don't think that they can't be a solid line (I would actually take this setup over last year's), you can never be sure how they are going to gel.

Possibly even more important behind this whole season is Trent. He had a season filled with high highs and low lows. Hopefully with more weapons and a solid running game, he develop into a dominant passer, but the jury is certainly still out. So we're really still too unproven to be throwing out best offense titles around.

[yordad]

did it ever occur to you that we may have TWO rookie linemen protecting that questionable QB? NOT a good combination.Well, I believe the O-line interior is better then last year, and the ONE rookie starter is an upgrade. As far as the missing tackle goes... yeah, I mentioned that, so it clearly occurred to me.

[yordad]

OK, maybe I should just ask for a prediction. Anything worst then 12th would be underachieving.

[yordad]

I'm with you but you're leaving out one important thing. Our offensive line is going to have 3 new starters and all five at a different position than they played most of 2008. While I'm not saying that I don't think that they can't be a solid line (I would actually take this setup over last year's), you can never be sure how they are going to gel.
Anything about all new positions is speculation, but I see where your coming from. Not every team is perfect. But, it appears you may agree the skill positions look pretty stacked.

[Mr. Pink]

Be prepared for this offense to underachieve then...

We'll likely struggle earlier while the offensive line gels because there is a bunch of new faces combined with a much difficult schedule.

I say we'll end up in the middle of the pack somewhere on offense for the year...

16-19th is my guess.

[Dr. Lecter]

did it ever occur to you that we may have TWO rookie linemen protecting that questionable QB? NOT a good combination.

Yes, replacing Dockery and the turnstiles at center makes the line worse.

[OpIv37]

Yes, replacing Dockery and the turnstiles at center makes the line worse.

it doesn't have to "not get worse." It has to get better. I fail to see how Walker-Hangartner-Rookie-Rookie-mediocre G playing T is better than what we had last year.

[OpIv37]

Yes, replacing Dockery and the turnstiles at center makes the line worse.

and btw weren't you one of those people preaching about how the "cohesion" on the OL would make the line better last year? How'd that work out?

[Night Train]

The Bills are still a middle of the pack O, at best, until they prove otherwise.

I'm quite encouraged after the additions of Owens,Neslon & Rhodes at the skill positions.The OL will take time but they're going in the right direction after this draft weekend. It's encouraging.

Thinking positive thoughts.

[Dujek]

and btw weren't you one of those people preaching about how the "cohesion" on the OL would make the line better last year? How'd that work out?

Op, you just shot your own argument in the foot.

First you say that the changes made to the o-line would hurt us because the players wouldn't be cohesive, and then you say that the o-line last year sucked even though we had maintained the status quo to build cohesion.

Make your mind up.

[elltrain22]

I think we're surely a top 10 offense, and have the potential to be top 5.

[Dr. Lecter]

and btw weren't you one of those people preaching about how the "cohesion" on the OL would make the line better last year? How'd that work out?

Yep, I was wrong. Too much crap in the middle of the line and a LT that decided being out of shape was a good idea killed them.

I have no problems admitting when I am wrong. Hopefully the run blocking is much better this year. The pass protection was not as bad as the run blocking last year, but needs to improve as well.

Of course you are also the guy who said the line sucked last year, so they made changes and you are now *****ing about them making changes.

Makes a ton of sense.

[Don't Panic]

did it ever occur to you that we may have TWO rookie linemen protecting that questionable QB? NOT a good combination.

Calling them rookies over and over doesn't make them bad players per se, Op. I bet Wood is game ready by week 1 and that we are more concerned about another spot on the line (hopefully only one other spot on the line). If Levitre is starting, in fact whoever starts, they will have earned it in camp. I don't think it will be a great line, but I think with what we have around it, all it has to do is be middle of the pack and we'll be a top 10 offense. I do wish we had a better blocking TE...

[OpIv37]

Op, you just shot your own argument in the foot.

First you say that the changes made to the o-line would hurt us because the players wouldn't be cohesive, and then you say that the o-line last year sucked even though we had maintained the status quo to build cohesion.

Make your mind up.

what the hell are you talking about?

Last year, Lecter and others argued that cohesion will make the line better because OL's need time to gel. This year, they're saying a reshuffled line with a bunch of rookies will be better than last year even though they've had no time to gel. It has nothing to do with me.

I think the changes made to the OL will hurt us because a) we don't have a tackle nearly as skilled as Peters, b) Hangartner is unproven and c) at least one- and possibly two- rookies with no experience will be starting. Cohesion never has been part of my argument.

[OpIv37]

Yep, I was wrong. Too much crap in the middle of the line and a LT that decided being out of shape was a good idea killed them.

I have no problems admitting when I am wrong. Hopefully the run blocking is much better this year. The pass protection was not as bad as the run blocking last year, but needs to improve as well.

Of course you are also the guy who said the line sucked last year, so they made changes and you are now *****ing about them making changes.

Makes a ton of sense.

It makes plenty of sense if you don't make the faulty assumption that changes are automatically improvements.

[Dr. Lecter]

It makes plenty of sense if you don't make the faulty assumption that changes are automatically improvements.

It makes sense if you also do not assume they are not improvements or make the team worse before seeing what happens.

It seems as if you making assumptions is perfectly acceptable. Anybody else does it and it is horrific.

[OpIv37]

It makes sense if you also do not assume they are not improvements or make the team worse before seeing what happens.

It seems as if you making assumptions is perfectly acceptable. Anybody else does it and it is horrific.

I didn't make assumptions- I made predictions based on what we actually did, and I have reasons for them. If you don't like it and just want to wait and see, might as well shut the board down til September because there's nothing to talk about until then.

[ddaryl]

I beleive we will improve to top 16 (or top 1/2) but we aren't quite ready to make the jump to top 10...

[ddaryl]

I think the changes made to the OL will hurt us because a) we don't have a tackle nearly as skilled as Peters,.


this is the one that worries me the least.

I think Peters last year was EXTREMELY overrated

[Dr. Lecter]

I didn't make assumptions- I made predictions based on what we actually did, and I have reasons for them. If you don't like it and just want to wait and see, might as well shut the board down til September because there's nothing to talk about until then.

And others are making their predictions based on what they think will happen to make this a top -X defense.

Just because they have different conclusions than you do, does not mean they are assuming things. They are just arriving at a different conclusion.

[Pinkerton Security]

it doesn't have to "not get worse." It has to get better. I fail to see how Walker-Hangartner-Rookie-Rookie-mediocre G playing T is better than what we had last year.

peters played at a sub-par level, and not just for him.

dock played at an average level.

our line played badly last year. they've addressed that. I'd be willing to bet whoever our LT is this year wont give up as many sacks as Peters did last year, so thats improvement right there. We've also upgraded our run-blocking, allowing our 2 very good RB's more room to maneuver.

[kid mickey]

The Bills should have a line that will function this year. Did anybody see how giddy Jauron got when talking about Levitre. It's like the guy thought he would be an all-pro guard or something. I am reserving judgment for the season, but I think on paper with the guys we have and Schoenert not effing it up up we should get to at least the 15-20 range on offense. I mean honestly you got Owens and Evans out wide, Reed, Parrish, and Johnson in the slot and then you add Nelson into the mix this offense has a ton of potential to do some damage. Not to mention the stable of backs we have. Lynch will be out for the first three games, but Rhodes and Jackson are gonna be able to contribute. You run the ace and you can have Owens Reed Parrish lined up on one side with Johnson and Evans on the other or any way you want to have it. The possibilities are limitless the key is trying to figure out what works best for this personnel. I fully expect better output this year. A few years down the road this offense if operated correctly will be lethal. Not just good, but lethal.

[Bling]

You could break the top 20.

[GarnOFreak]

Honestly? i will be totally surprised if they can break the twenty spot. I dont care who we get to play tackle, the O-Line will continue to have issues as it has since Kent Hull left. Our starting runner wont even be in the first few games. I love Fred Jackson, but he's not a RB1 for pretty much any team out there. Evans has underachieved two years running and TO is supposed to help that production? (Owens either lead or was very close to leading the league in dropped passes last year). Josh Reed....is okay.... but only in the slot over the middle, and is not going to really scare anyone. After that we have project players and guys with almost no experience as backups. QB is a trouble spot as well. no clear info as far as who we're gonna even keep other than Edwards, who we need to cross our fingers that the first third of the season last year wasn't his career highlights before getting hurt and never regaining his form. Idont know how ....with this many issues anyone can drink enough Kool Aid to be;ieve we're gonna be the Rams from a few years back and tear up the field. Go team, but in this dimension please.

[madness]

It's not about the OL. Rookies are inserted into lineups all the time. I believe these guys will step right in and produce. If you need evidence, just look how horrible the Jets OL was a few years back. There will obviously be some struggles, but I don't think there will be a drop off from the previous year and I'll even go as far to say that this line will pay immediate dividends in the running game. Can you imagine our backs not having to shed tackles in the backfield?

The G position is also a heck of a lot easier transition to make over T and this offense is built on quick drops and quick reads by the QB. We will obviously take less shots downfield in the beginning of the season to allow this line to gel but once they do, there will be no excuse for this offense go "balls out".

If it's not about the OL what is it about? Trent Edwards. The QB position is the most vital position on the field in an offense and some might say on the entire team. Trent has to continue where he left off before "the hit" and show us all he's ready to take the next step in his progression. This offense's potential is in exact parallel to Trent Edwards' potential, plain and simple.

I expect this offense to start out somewhere the middle of the pack but by season's end there will be no excuse to justify why this offense isn't top 10 to 15.

[Mike]

I dont think TOP Offense 5 is in the Cards: See who is clearly better than the Bills:
Pats
Cards
Colts
Bolts
Saints
Texans (3rd last year)
even Cowgirls

I dont see how the Bills offence this year will be better than the Cowboys offense last year. That Dallas team had TO, just like us, and were also better than us in almost every other offensive position: Better O-line blocking, better RB (Barber & Felix Jones> Lynch & Jackson), Better TE in Whitten, Better QB in Romo, and some would even argue better 2nd reciever in Roy Williams.

I do not see how we -today- have more talent than last years cowboys offense which was Not top 5. I do not see how we edge them out in any way!

[HHURRICANE]

Classic zoners. get all excited about the skill players but ignore the fact that we have two unproven tackles, rookies playing at both guard positions, and a backup center.

Sorry, but I'll take last year's line.

The funny part is that when Josh Reed went down that's when we lost games. We were 7-1 in games that Josh Reed and Trent Edwards played and finsihed in. The O-line wasn't the problem it was the fact that Edwards had no one to throw to.