Interesting comments from Rus Brandon on Jason Peters

[Dr. Lecter]

Read this. (http://www.twobillsdrive.com/articles/game_day/127/)

In part:



“Here’s a player that we brought in as a undrafted free agent, we developed, we signed to an over-market contract,” Brandon said. “And the one misnomer in that contract was, he had an escalator clause if he would ever move to left tackle. He was not making bottom money at all. He was paid very handsomely. And we told Jason – I personally told Jason – that we would not renegotiate his contract with three years left on it, because he was not our priority. Lee Evans was our priority. I said, ‘You come back to camp, and once we get Lee done, you become a priority.’ The day that we signed Lee, I had him come to my office, and I said, ‘You are now the priority.’ We worked on that for five or six months, and we offered Jason an enormous contract – the largest contract in Bills history – and he had no interest in it. None. That was right at the conclusion of the season.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Good riddance. I hope he sucks it up on Philly.

[ddaryl]

pretty much the same way fans have translated the whole occurence...

[OpIv37]

He was not making bottom money at all.

That part is COMPLETE BS. Even with the escalator, Peters was underpaid for a LT of his caliber.

[The King]

:bf1: Russ

[Dr. Lecter]

That part is COMPLETE BS. Even with the escalator, Peters was underpaid for a LT of his caliber.

OK.

There is a big, huge, gigantic difference between "bottom money" and being underpaid. Obviously the Bills agreed he was underpaid as the offerred him more money.

So it is not COMPLETE BS. Unless you change the meanings of words in order to create reasons to ***** about the FO when there are plenty of real reasons to bash them.

What Brandon said was accurate.

[BuffaloBillsStampede]

What a piece of **** Peters is. He goes from a nobody to a Pro Bowler and shows no loyalty or respect to the people that took him there. I hope he blows his knees out in camp.

[psubills62]

That part is COMPLETE BS. Even with the escalator, Peters was underpaid for a LT of his caliber.

It seems to me that that statement means something slightly different than you think it means.

Brandon wasn't saying that Peters was being paid exactly what he deserved. To me, it just means that Peters wasn't being so grossly underpaid (especially considering when and under what circumstances he had signed the previous extension), that the Bills were going to go out of their way to give him a larger contract.

So he was being underpaid. But not SO MUCH that the Bills were saying "hey, it's absolutely DIRE that we give Peters a raise." The comparison I'm making in my mind is Marcus McNeill, who had a $750,000 salary his rookie year when he made the Pro Bowl.

[justasportsfan]

SOunds like a good press conference. Enough talk however, time to prove it to the fans. You're already a year behind from an average turn around.

[Captain gameboy]

I think Peters had a plan in the works from the beginning of last season, and the plan was to get out of Buffalo.

I think he is the consummate ass, not because he wanted out, but by the course he took.

After all, this is a team game, and he screwed his team by being out of shape and a fraction of the player he could have been last year.

[OpIv37]

OK.

There is a big, huge, gigantic difference between "bottom money" and being underpaid. Obviously the Bills agreed he was underpaid as the offerred him more money.

So it is not COMPLETE BS. Unless you change the meanings of words in order to create reasons to ***** about the FO when there are plenty of real reasons to bash them.

What Brandon said was accurate.

To me, being underpaid and "bottom money" are the same thing. That's what "underpaid" means. Under as in "low", "low" as in "near the bottom." You can believe his BS if you want to be gullible and defend the FO for every single move if you want, but that's not the reality.

[psubills62]

Read this. (http://www.twobillsdrive.com/articles/game_day/127/)

In part:

I was just reading that article. It's a very interesting one, and not just because of the Peters comments. I loved the story about Rosenhaus wearing the tie.

[OpIv37]

It seems to me that that statement means something slightly different than you think it means.

Brandon wasn't saying that Peters was being paid exactly what he deserved. To me, it just means that Peters wasn't being so grossly underpaid (especially considering when and under what circumstances he had signed the previous extension), that the Bills were going to go out of their way to give him a larger contract.

So he was being underpaid. But not SO MUCH that the Bills were saying "hey, it's absolutely DIRE that we give Peters a raise." The comparison I'm making in my mind is Marcus McNeill, who had a $750,000 salary his rookie year when he made the Pro Bowl.

you can't compare a rookie in his first year to a guy who's already established himself. Clearly, when McNeill was a rookie and signed that contract, no one knew he would make the Pro Bowl or become that caliber of player so soon. It's apples and oranges.

[psubills62]

To me, being underpaid and "bottom money" are the same thing. That's what "underpaid" means. Under as in "low", "low" as in "near the bottom." You can believe his BS if you want to be gullible and defend the FO for every single move if you want, but that's not the reality.

You must be an extremist then. Sometimes, it's amazing the lengths you go to to bash the front office. Seriously?

I'm just absolutely dying laughing at this "logical" sequence of yours.

Under = Low
Low = Near the Bottom
Near the Bottom = Bottom

So in your mind, whatever Peters was making (around 3.5-4 million) is the same as $500,000? Maybe you should tell Fred Jackson that. I'm sure he'd sign an extended contract for half a million per year right away, because it's essentially the same as 3.5 million per year.

Come on man...there's an enormous difference between being "underpaid" and "bottom money." If Peyton Manning were earning 9 million per year, that would be underpaid. If he were earning Trent Edwards money (~400,000 per year), THAT would be bottom money.

[ddaryl]

To me, being underpaid and "bottom money" are the same thing. That's what "underpaid" means. Under as in "low", "low" as in "near the bottom." You can believe his BS if you want to be gullible and defend the FO for every single move if you want, but that's not the reality.


underpaid and bottom money are 2 very different things.

The interpretation you make are quite extreme and serve to fit your desire to stretch this thread into a 3 page debate about it


bottom money would be Peters making about 1 mil a season to play LT

underpaid is what Peters was at about 4- 5 mil a season

and the fact always was Evans had a priority in 2007 and Peters had 3 year left on a recent extension in which he willingly signed and agreed to.

[psubills62]

you can't compare a rookie in his first year to a guy who's already established himself. Clearly, when McNeill was a rookie and signed that contract, no one knew he would make the Pro Bowl or become that caliber of player so soon. It's apples and oranges.

Haha stop it! You're killing me!

Please, reread that bolded sentence, substitute in "Jason Peters," and take out the rookie part. I'll help you out, it reads:

"Clearly, when [Peters] signed that contract, no one knew he would make the Pro Bowl or become that caliber of player so soon."

So it's Buffalo's fault for signing Peters to a contract, having no idea that he would become a Pro Bowler at LT....but it doesn't matter that San Diego didn't seem to care about it's Pro Bowl LT making peanuts?

It doesn't matter if it's a rookie contract or not. They were both under contract for several more years. There is ZERO difference.

In fact, McNeill had three years left on his deal, same as Peters. Considering San Diego had the exact same opportunity, ability, and motivation to give McNeill a raise, it's amazing that they didn't, right?

[OpIv37]

underpaid and bottom money are 2 very different things.

The interpretation you make are quite extreme and serve to fit your desire to stretch this thread into a 3 page debate about it


bottom money would be Peters making about 1 mil a season to play LT

underpaid is what Peters was at about 4- 5 mil a season

and the fact always was Evans had a priority in 2007 and Peters had 3 year left on a recent extension in which he willingly signed and agreed to.

my interpretation is FAR from extreme. I clearly showed in my post how the the interpretation works- under- low- bottom. It's really not a stretch at all.

Other guys who were lesser players were making twice as much as Peters. The guy had a legitimate gripe. Brandon wants to spin it and say "well some rookie LT only made 750 k and that's 'bottom money'" but it's also not accounting for the quality of the players. It's spin- nothing more.

[Bulldog]

To me, being underpaid and "bottom money" are the same thing. That's what "underpaid" means. Under as in "low", "low" as in "near the bottom." You can believe his BS if you want to be gullible and defend the FO for every single move if you want, but that's not the reality.

Hey OP, how much did the Bills FO offer Peters in negotiations at the conclusion of last season? If you don't kow the answer to this, then you have no argument with how this was handled. Neither the people who supported the FO or the people who support Peters have any idea what was said and done behind closed doors. So it's tough to lay blame on one side or the other. For the record, I wouldn't have paid Peters the money the Eagles gave him. But thats only my opinion.

[OpIv37]

You must be an extremist then. Sometimes, it's amazing the lengths you go to to bash the front office. Seriously?

I'm just absolutely dying laughing at this "logical" sequence of yours.

Under = Low
Low = Near the Bottom
Near the Bottom = Bottom

So in your mind, whatever Peters was making (around 3.5-4 million) is the same as $500,000? Maybe you should tell Fred Jackson that. I'm sure he'd sign an extended contract for half a million per year right away, because it's essentially the same as 3.5 million per year.

Come on man...there's an enormous difference between being "underpaid" and "bottom money." If Peyton Manning were earning 9 million per year, that would be underpaid. If he were earning Trent Edwards money (~400,000 per year), THAT would be bottom money.

Near the bottom does not equal bottom, and I NEVER said that. The rest of that makes PERFECT sense and is not extreme at all. Those are the definitions of those words, period.

[Voltron]

From all I have read about Jason Peters the person, I just don't see him doing this on his own. We all knew when he was brought on board that he was not the sharpest tool in the shed. I believe his wonderlic score was just above single digits (if this is untrue please correct me).

I think what happened is his agent stroked his underdeveloped ego and got into his head and blew it up so big Jason couldn't get out of his own way. He was brainwashed for lack of a better term. Every one has always described him as quiet and a team player .... until he held out .... then he was a totally different person.

I hope Jason does well in Philly because i still like to see Donovan McNabb do well and Jason will be watching his blind side.

At the same time I hope his agent chokes on a Kobe steak and Cristal while celebrating his huge payday. :evil:

[Dr. Lecter]

To me, being underpaid and "bottom money" are the same thing. That's what "underpaid" means. Under as in "low", "low" as in "near the bottom." You can believe his BS if you want to be gullible and defend the FO for every single move if you want, but that's not the reality.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Don't be this much of a dumbass.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
First off, saying I defend them for every single move is wrong. I have *****ed about the Peters thing, for example, a bunch of times. Or them not getting a OLB. Don't come *****ing next time somebody says you are not a fan or never praise a move because you are devolving to the same person. And don't say one is gullible because they don't agree with you. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Underpaid is underpaid - he was making around 4 million per year. That is underpaid for a Pro Bowl LT. What it is not is bottom money. There are LTs paid less than that (See McNeill, Marcus). Bottom money is bottom money - near the bottom of the pay scale. The Bills agreed he was underpaid and tried to rectify that.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
What the reality is is that you read the article, picked one part of it and tried to use to bash the Bills FO. As I also said, there are plenty of real reasons to bash them (There I go defending every single move). That statement, which you isolated and ran with, is not one of them. If they, in fact did offer him more than 9 million per year, it does put the entire scenario in a different light.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
At the end of the day I still think they should have signed him. LTs that are that good are not easy to come by. But let's not pretend this was a one way street of blame in the scenario.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Last year Peters held out. I can accept that. He did so with little or no communication to the Bills FO. Stupid, but if that is his technique I can accept that.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
What I can't and won't defend him on is coming into the organization on the Saturday before the opener so he gets paid but knows he is unable to play, thereby hurting the team and the fans. What I also can't and won't defend him on is coming in out of shape. The approximately 15 times Bruce held out of training camp, he always showed up in shape and ready to play. He also would show up a week or so (at the latest) for the opener so he could play and help the team. Peters did not give a rat's ass about the team or the fans. He made that clear with the way he arrived and the time he arrived. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Discounting what I said because you project the falsehood that I defend every move and am gullible is below you. Don’t be the same guy you (rightfully so) complain about and criticize. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>

[psubills62]

Near the bottom does not equal bottom, and I NEVER said that. The rest of that makes PERFECT sense and is not extreme at all. Those are the definitions of those words, period.

Ah but you did say that, although indirectly. You said that it was a lie that Peters wasn't making bottom money, implying you think that Peters WAS making bottom money. Thus, in your explanation, near the bottom = bottom. Or are you going to admit that Brandon was right and Peters wasn't making bottom money? Because you followed your logic from "under" to "near the bottom," but you never completed the circle to "bottom," which was your point all along.

Just FYI:

"Under" and "Low" are very relative terms. They are relative to a middle ground. "Near the Bottom" and "Bottom" are also relative terms, but relative to a different point - the bottom.

If an airplane is supposed to be flying at 30,000 feet, but instead flies at 25,000 feet, then it's flying "under" and "lower than" it should. That doesn't mean it's at the "bottom" or "near the bottom."

[kid mickey]

Op, this post is pretty obvious. Why the eff would the Bills not reach out and offer a player a lot cash if they liked him? Honestly you need to come to grips with reality and understand that Peters didn't want to be here. If the Bills shelled out major cash to Lee Evans, who was up for a new contract before Peters, who still had 3 years left on his contract, that pretty much tells me all I really need to know about Peters. He wasn't a popular guy in the locker room. Donte Whitner the guy you happen hate so much was glad to see him go. And I honestly believe that Whitner being a team captain and a liked player in the locker room reflects on what most guys on the team thought of the situation. Besides who the eff wants a guy who thinks that the biggest accomplishment you can acheive in the NFL is going to the Pro Bowl? The guy isn't a team player and I'm glad he's gone. Thought he was the greatest ever and in reality, he's not. Go Russ. Glad you didn't cave in to Peters bull**** demands. It's funny you ask 12.5 mil from Buffalo and then you sign with Philly for 9 mil a year. That doesn't tell you he didn't want to be here? Op you are the worst poster on this board.

[justasportsfan]

Sometimes, it's amazing the lengths you go to to bash the front office. Seriously?

.
It goes both ways. We also go to so much length to give the FO a pass or defend them.

I don't care what goes on behind the curtain anymore. I don't care who was wrong or who was right . All I care about anymore is winning.

[Pinkerton Security]

That part is COMPLETE BS. Even with the escalator, Peters was underpaid for a LT of his caliber.

If you ask 10 people what "bottom money" means, I'd say 9 will say it is the lowest. thats what the bottom is. what would you say if someone was making the least amount of money possible??

[OpIv37]

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Don't be this much of a dumbass.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
First off, saying I defend them for every single move is wrong. I have *****ed about the Peters thing, for example, a bunch of times. Or them not getting a OLB. Don't come *****ing next time somebody says you are not a fan or never praise a move because you are devolving to the same person. And don't say one is gullible because they don't agree with you. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Underpaid is underpaid - he was making around 4 million per year. That is underpaid for a Pro Bowl LT. What it is not is bottom money. There are LTs paid less than that (See McNeill, Marcus). Bottom money is bottom money - near the bottom of the pay scale. The Bills agreed he was underpaid and tried to rectify that.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
What the reality is is that you read the article, picked one part of it and tried to use to bash the Bills FO. As I also said, there are plenty of real reasons to bash them (There I go defending every single move). That statement, which you isolated and ran with, is not one of them. If they, in fact did offer him more than 9 million per year, it does put the entire scenario in a different light.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
At the end of the day I still think they should have signed him. LTs that are that good are not easy to come by. But let's not pretend this was a one way street of blame in the scenario.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Last year Peters held out. I can accept that. He did so with little or no communication to the Bills FO. Stupid, but if that is his technique I can accept that.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
What I can't and won't defend him on is coming into the organization on the Saturday before the opener so he gets paid but knows he is unable to play, thereby hurting the team and the fans. What I also can't and won't defend him on is coming in out of shape. The approximately 15 times Bruce held out of training camp, he always showed up in shape and ready to play. He also would show up a week or so (at the latest) for the opener so he could play and help the team. Peters did not give a rat's ass about the team or the fans. He made that clear with the way he arrived and the time he arrived. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Discounting what I said because you project the falsehood that I defend every move and am gullible is below you. Don’t be the same guy you (rightfully so) complain about and criticize. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>

Fine, you don't defend every move- but on this one, Brandon is spinning it. He said "Peters wasn't getting bottom money" which deflects from the criticism that "Peters is underpaid." Peters WAS underpaid, but Brandon decided to change the standard.

That's what I was getting at in my original comment, but I did a piss poor job of making the argument.

[Pinkerton Security]

Fine, you don't defend every move- but on this one, Brandon is spinning it. He said "Peters wasn't getting bottom money" which deflects from the criticism that "Peters is underpaid." Peters WAS underpaid, but Brandon decided to change the standard.

That's what I was getting at in my original comment, but I did a piss poor job of making the argument.

yes he was definitely deflecting that criticism, which is what he had to do. He cant say 'yeah we were underpaying his a** because he was a lazy slob and I told the idiot we would restructure his contract after Lee'.

[psubills62]

It goes both ways. We also go to so much length to give the FO a pass or defend them.

I don't care what goes on behind the curtain anymore. I don't care who was wrong or who was right . All I care about anymore is winning.

I agree. I often go to lengths to defend the FO...but defining words like Op did? I would hope I tend to avoid THOSE lengths.

[cocamide]

To me, being underpaid and "bottom money" are the same thing. That's what "underpaid" means. Under as in "low", "low" as in "near the bottom." You can believe his BS if you want to be gullible and defend the FO for every single move if you want, but that's not the reality.
What exactly are you whining about this time? You say "Even with the escalator, Peters was underpaid for a LT of his caliber." That's true, and the Bills recognized this. In fact, the statement is so true, that the Bills offered him the biggest contract in Bills history! They were doing what they could to ensure that he wasn't underpaid anymore. While the FO has made a large number of blunders over the past decade, I just can't see how this is one of them.

"Underpaid" and "bottom money" aren't the same thing. Underpaid means you get paid less than you're worth. If I'm worth $1billion to a company and they only pay me $100million, then I'm getting underpaid (even if I'm the highest paid employee at the company). This is a situation where I'm underpaid, but not making bottom money. (In fact, I'm making top money.)

Here are some numbers. According to USA Today, Peter's salary in 2008 was $3,400,000. Based on his performance, he was underpaid, as the top linement were getting over $10mil in 2008. However, he was no where near the bottom where the people were making $295,000. Peters was making over ten times what the people with "bottom money" were making.

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/playersbyposition.aspx?pos=135&order=Salary+desc

[Dr. Lecter]

Fine, you don't defend every move- but on this one, Brandon is spinning it. He said "Peters wasn't getting bottom money" which deflects from the criticism that "Peters is underpaid." Peters WAS underpaid, but Brandon decided to change the standard.

That's what I was getting at in my original comment, but I did a piss poor job of making the argument.

And he recognized he was underpaid. And, according to his words, offerred him a deal worth more than 9 million per.

The Bills FO, for all of their faults, have extended a number of players before their original contracts were expired. It is not always the right player. But they do so. And they do so with only asking a guy shows up and gives 100%.

Peters did neither. I still wish he was here. But one can see why the Bills might not want to give him 11 million per, once he showed up unprepared to play. If he did that again in 3 years when Joe Thomas is making 14 million year, fans would flip out for the Bills giving into him.

[justasportsfan]

I agree. I often go to lengths to defend the FO...but defining words like Op did? I would hope I tend to avoid THOSE lengths.
We all know OP is extreme. He's waaay opposite of being a homer. If we win a sb , he'd find something wrong with it but so far , the results on the field these last 3 years has leaned towards his side. Even former homers like myself have given up trying to defend the FO. I don't believe them anymore.

[psubills62]

Fine, you don't defend every move- but on this one, Brandon is spinning it. He said "Peters wasn't getting bottom money" which deflects from the criticism that "Peters is underpaid." Peters WAS underpaid, but Brandon decided to change the standard.

That's what I was getting at in my original comment, but I did a piss poor job of making the argument.

Ah, now I understand.

I agree that Peters was underpaid, per his 2006 and 2007 performances. However, that doesn't mean he's a priority. I think it DOES matter how much or how little he is underpaid. If Edwards leads us to the Super Bowl in 2009, then he's obviously being grossly underpaid and that needs to be rectified immediately. But if Edwards leads us to a 9-7 or 10-6 record with decent, but not great numbers, then he's obviously underpaid but not so severely that he has immediate and top priority.

[cocamide]

I see Lecter has made the same point during the time it took me to write the post :)

[madness]

we offered Jason an enormous contract – the largest contract in Bills history – and he had no interest in it.
That's all I needed to know. End of story. If you still feel the need to defend Jason Peters at this point.... I'm sorry that you lack the necessary comprehension skills to understand the situation. (That's about as nice as I can be)

[bigbub2352]

Good for Russ, he is so overratted by the media it isnt funny
he is not elite, and he is not a true team player, alot of players out there are gifted its upstairs were it counts
How long till someone signed a bigger deal then his till he starts pouting like a baby
Russ did the right thing, build thru the draft not Free Agency

[Luisito23]

you can't compare a rookie in his first year to a guy who's already established himself.



He's had 1 good year here in Buffalo, how is that being established?

[Ginger Vitis]

From all I have read about Jason Peters the person, I just don't see him doing this on his own. We all knew when he was brought on board that he was not the sharpest tool in the shed. I believe his wonderlic score was just above single digits (if this is untrue please correct me).

:evil:

His wonderlic score has been reported to be a 9.. A 10 is considered to be literate.. So by wonderlic standards Jason is considered to be illiterate.. On the opposite end of the spectrum Ryan Fitzpatrick reportedly scored a 48 which would be genius level SO during the dog days of Training Camp are Trent and Ryan going to be discussing which bars in Rochester has the best looking chicks or quantum physics?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderlic_Test

[justasportsfan]

He's had 1 good year here in Buffalo, how is that being established?
compared to anyone left on this team including Evans (except Moorman at his postion) , thats established by our team standard.

[madness]

His wonderlic score has been reported to be a 9.. A 10 is considered to be literate.. So by wonderlic standards Jason is considered to be illiterate.. On the opposite end of the spectrum Ryan Fitzpatrick reportedly scored a 48 which would be genius level SO during the dog days of Training Camp are Trent and Ryan going to be discussing which bars in Rochester has the best looking chicks or quantum physics?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderlic_Test

Good stuff... The OL could take part in that conversation as we might quite possibly have the smartest line in the NFL.

[HAMMER]

That's all I needed to know. End of story. If you still feel the need to defend Jason Peters at this point.... I'm sorry that you lack the necessary comprehension skills to understand the situation. (That's about as nice as I can be)

Good post. Op goes to every length possible to bash the Bills and the FO, regardless of how little sense it makes. He has been right on a number of occassions or issues but he is an antagonist to the extreme and often makes little or no sense.

[kid mickey]

Ban OP. Only allow him to post in a negative nancy forum. The guy should root for either Washington for Baltimore seeing as how he lives so close to them.

[yordad]

That part is COMPLETE BS. Even with the escalator, Peters was underpaid for a LT of his caliber.Irrelivent. HE SIGNED IT! It had a LT clause!

[OpIv37]

Irrelivent. HE SIGNED IT! It had a LT clause!

ha.

If your counterparts at other companies made twice as much as you, and weren't even as good at their job, I bet you'd sit back and say "oh well, I agreed to work for this amount" rather than trying to do something about it. :rolleyes:

[OpIv37]

Ban OP. Only allow him to post in a negative nancy forum. The guy should root for either Washington for Baltimore seeing as how he lives so close to them.

I shouldn't even dignify this with a response, but go ahead and call me negative all you want. Once the season starts, you'll realize that I'm not negative at all- I'm realistic.

[yordad]

ha.

If your counterparts at other companies made twice as much as you, and weren't even as good at their job, I bet you'd sit back and say "oh well, I agreed to work for this amount" rather than trying to do something about it. :rolleyes:I would ask; asking doesn't hurt. I would also realized I was UNDER CONTRACT. Oh, and I would fire my old agent.

THERE IS NOTHING ELSE YOU CAN DO BESIDES THROW A TEMPER TANTRUM.

Peters was 100% in the wrong.

[MikeInRoch]

ha.

If your counterparts at other companies made twice as much as you, and weren't even as good at their job, I bet you'd sit back and say "oh well, I agreed to work for this amount" rather than trying to do something about it. :rolleyes:

If I had *known* I was that good at the job, then I wouldn't have signed the original contract. I wouldn't have signed it and just stopped showing up to work.

In any case, we all know the NFL doesn't work the same way as 'real life'. Players hold out because it's the only leverage they have. Having a player who is holding out is annoying, but part of the game. Having a player who isn't giving it his all on the field however, as Peters admitted to, is unacceptable.

[OpIv37]

I would ask; asking doesn't hurt. I would also realized I was UNDER CONTRACT. Oh, and I would fire my old agent.

THERE IS NOTHING ELSE YOU CAN DO BESIDES THROW A TEMPER TANTRUM.

Peters was 100% in the wrong.

He was right in wanting a raise. He was wrong in how he approached it.

It doesn't really matter though, because he's gone and our OL is now a mess.

[yordad]

I shouldn't even dignify this with a response, but go ahead and call me negative all you want. Once the season starts, you'll realize that I'm not negative at all- I'm realistic.Banning you would be ******ed. You are entiltled to your opinion, IMO. And you have good knowledge. But, as far as being "realistic", I am pretty sure everyone thinks they are. I'm not saying you aren't, just saying we each have different "realities".

[kid mickey]

Dude your are pessimistic to a T. Realistic would be judging what the players do right now. You can't judge this season yet, because it hasn't been played yet. You could bash every signing this team makes and never see them play a down in the NFL. You don't know what they are capable of doing and neither do I. I am sure you are hoping for a positive result, but your problem is you are looking at it negatively. I am also hoping for a positive result, the difference is I am looking at what is shown to me right now and I all I see is a commitment to get better. Does that translate to getting better no, it doesn't I want to see what happens before I make a judgment. You have no idea how the Peters trade will affect this team. Neither do I. I just prefer to take the wait and see approach while you prefer to take the ***** and moan approach. I'll ***** and moan after I see the end result, if its not up to par.

[TigerJ]

The way the league works is that teams take a risk on players, paying big salaries with no guarantee that a given player will ever be productive. The Bills renegotiated with Peters after he became a right tackle because they thought he was going to be pretty good. At that point he was being overpaid. They signed a long term deal because that's how they can recoup some of the money they paid out when he first signed the deal. The problem is players want their cake and eat it too. They like being overpaid initially, when they're being paid on potential and not production, but then when their production starts to exceed their compensation they want a new deal.

[Kelly The Dog]

He said they offered him the biggest contract in team history. The previous biggest was 7-49 for Derrick Dockery, including the recent Lee Evans extension, which was 34 mil. So that doesnt really tell us anything about what they offered him, whether it was closer to 7-8-9-or 10 mil.

He also said that he flat told Peters that we WERENT going to renegotiate your contract if he just came in and played last year. That's completely against what most fans thought and argued. And how did he know they would EVER sign Lee Evans? That could have gone on for two full years. I don't think that was a wise move for Brandon to tell him at all. If anything, it was incentive to hold out.

[OpIv37]

Dude your are pessimistic to a T. Realistic would be judging what the players do right now. You can't judge this season yet, because it hasn't been played yet. You could bash every signing this team makes and never see them play a down in the NFL. You don't know what they are capable of doing and neither do I. I am sure you are hoping for a positive result, but your problem is you are looking at it negatively. I am also hoping for a positive result, the difference is I am looking at what is shown to me right now and I all I see is a commitment to get better. Does that translate to getting better no, it doesn't I want to see what happens before I make a judgment. You have no idea how the Peters trade will affect this team. Neither do I. I just prefer to take the wait and see approach while you prefer to take the ***** and moan approach. I'll ***** and moan after I see the end result, if its not up to par.

Of course we don't know what they're capable of doing. But waiting til the season starts then evaluating is too easy and doesn't give us anything to do right now. It's accurate to say we don't know what will happen with the Peters trade. It's inaccurate to say we have no idea.

The guys who will be playing for our team this year have played lots of football, a good deal of which has been on television. Same for the coaches. Past performance is not a perfect indicator, but it's a pretty good one. You can accuse me of *****ing and moaning all you want, but what I'm doing is looking at the information available and drawing a conclusion. And I always have justifications for my conclusions. We won't know if I'm right or wrong until the season starts, but there is always a reason why I think the way we do.

Unfortunately, when I look at where this team was last year and what we did (or didn't do) over the course of the off-season to improve, I simply don't see this season turning out right. Sure, I could be wrong. This season will go well if we don't suffer from the loss of Peters AND if Hangartner is ready to take on the NT's in the AFCE AND the rookies we drafted for the OL play well AND if Maybin improves the pass rush AND if Trent improves AND if someone steps up at OLB AND if Jauron learns how to use a time out.... etc etc etc.

Will some of those things happen? Probably. Will enough of those things happen that this team can go from 7-9 to playoffs? Highly unlikely.

If we were like the Patriots and were coming off an 11-5 season, made a few minor additions and had a star player returning from injury, it would be ridiculous for me to have such a seemingly pessimistic assessment of this team. But the reality is that this team lacked talent last season and didn't do a whole ton to add it this season.

[kid mickey]

No I think it was a no nonsense, I'm not playing around approach. He was straight up, told him how it was gonna be and Peters balked because of it. Rosenhous one of the premier sport agents of our day, loves working with Buffalo. Says they are one of the easiest teams to work with. I credit it the FO for standing their ground on this one.

[yordad]

No one knows what they will do. Some expect the worst. Some hope for the best. Each is reality.

[kid mickey]

They signed T.O. They added to the line. They got a pass rusher. They got a safety, they got an OLB. You don't know what they could do. I don't know if its PR or what, but a lot of players are saying that the pieces are all their on this team. Randy Moss gave us props for getting T.O. Who knows. If you really think that Jason Peters was some hot-shot LT why did he give up all them sacks? Why has he seemingly regressed since 2006? I am not sold that he is the great player you think he is. I honestly think Bell could come in and do no worse than what Peters did in 08.

[OpIv37]

No one knows what they will do. Some expect the worst. Some hope for the best. Each is reality.

well there is a difference between hope and expectations.

Of course I HOPE that the Bills go 16-0 in the regular season and win the Super Bowl. But we all know what this team did last year and what they've done in the off-season, so it's unreasonable to EXPECT that.

All I'm trying to do is look at the info we have now and come up with a reasonable expectation/prediction. That doesn't mean it's what I want to happen, but there are a lot of things I want that I'm not going to get. I think some people here don't understand that.

[psubills62]

well there is a difference between hope and expectations.

Of course I HOPE that the Bills go 16-0 in the regular season and win the Super Bowl. But we all know what this team did last year and what they've done in the off-season, so it's unreasonable to EXPECT that.

All I'm trying to do is look at the info we have now and come up with a reasonable expectation/prediction. That doesn't mean it's what I want to happen, but there are a lot of things I want that I'm not going to get. I think some people here don't understand that.

Just out of curiosity, what record do you expect this year?

[kid mickey]

No I understand what your portraying, but realistically the OL could be pretty good. You really can't analyze rookies because they haven't played a down in the NFL. You just seem to think rookies can't come in and do a good job. We really have no idea how its gonna work out.

[Pinkerton Security]

Just out of curiosity, what record do you expect this year?

i want to know what he expected for our record to be last year. im pretty sure it was something like 5-11, which is only 2 wins off our actual record. So if you go 2 the other way, with even a marginally better team on paper (I'd say we're at least marginally better) we could REASONABLY be 9-7.

[kid mickey]

I think the Bills can't do no worse than 7-9. Its a staple of mediocrity. At best I think they go 11-5. That's my range.

[Yasgur's Farm]

It looks to me like Jason Peters will end up to Philadelphia what Derek Dockery was to Buffalo... 11.5 sacks allowed and 8 penalties in '08. :5:

[psubills62]

i want to know what he expected for our record to be last year. im pretty sure it was something like 5-11, which is only 2 wins off our actual record. So if you go 2 the other way, with even a marginally better team on paper (I'd say we're at least marginally better) we could REASONABLY be 9-7.

I'm just mainly curious because, while Op does say one or two positive things, the majority of what I hear leads me to believe that he thinks we're going 0-16. I mean, if I try and think like him, I don't see any way that we win a single game this year. Kind of depressing, to be honest.

To me, I get depressed during the season and right at the end of the season. But the offseason is enormously fun, analyzing the draft, the draft picks, the training camps...that's the best time for optimism, imo. Doesn't mean I can't be realistic too, but I am optimistic. After all, what fanbase isn't, in general?

[MikeInRoch]

That's an interesting question... Op, in the past 5 seasons, do you happen to know how the Bills did vs. your expectation of them?

[OpIv37]

No I understand what your portraying, but realistically the OL could be pretty good. You really can't analyze rookies because they haven't played a down in the NFL. You just seem to think rookies can't come in and do a good job. We really have no idea how its gonna work out.

it's rare that rookies come in and instantly do a good job. It's VERY unreasonable to expect two rookies to do it on the OL alone, to say nothing of Maybin.

[yordad]

well there is a difference between hope and expectations.

Of course I HOPE that the Bills go 16-0 in the regular season and win the Super Bowl. But we all know what this team did last year and what they've done in the off-season, so it's unreasonable to EXPECT that.

All I'm trying to do is look at the info we have now and come up with a reasonable expectation/prediction. That doesn't mean it's what I want to happen, but there are a lot of things I want that I'm not going to get. I think some people here don't understand that.I purposely left that open to interpretation. I know you hope for the best, but expect the worst. It is a matter of expression. Which you choose to express.

[OpIv37]

That's an interesting question... Op, in the past 5 seasons, do you happen to know how the Bills did vs. your expectation of them?

In 07 I picked 6-10 and they finished 7-9, so they were one game better than I expected.

In '08 I think I picked 8-8 but I'd have to go look it up to be sure.

Other than that I don't remember specifically- I'd have to go searching through old threads to figure it out. I do remember taking a lot of **** on here for predicting a poor season in '05 after the '04 almost-playoff run, but I don't remember exactly what I predicted off hand.

[kid mickey]

The Jets did it with Ferguson and Mangold. It isn't out of the realm of possibility to happen. Maybin will contribute to this team this year. He may start right away we don't know what happens. Maybin will do just as good if not better than Orakpo year one.

[yordad]

Heck, I think they will be 7-9.

[OpIv37]

Just out of curiosity, what record do you expect this year?

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=173128&highlight=Prediction

my preliminary prediction was 5-11 but I think I'm going to revise that because some of the teams I predicted as losses are looking pretty crappy- I need to read up on them more.

I'll have a final prediction sometime before the season starts, probably during camp.

[psubills62]

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=173128&highlight=Prediction

my preliminary prediction was 5-11 but I think I'm going to revise that because some of the teams I predicted as losses are looking pretty crappy- I need to read up on them more.

I'll have a final prediction sometime before the season starts, probably during camp.

Well if I were you, I wouldn't predict anything other than 7-9 haha

[OpIv37]

The Jets did it with Ferguson and Mangold. It isn't out of the realm of possibility to happen. Maybin will contribute to this team this year. He may start right away we don't know what happens. Maybin will do just as good if not better than Orakpo year one.

You're using the exception to prove the rule. You found one good example vs the dozens where it doesn't happen. In addition, this FO has yet to prove they can find talent in the draft.

When you consider how poorly this FO has drafted and evaluated OL talent in the past (see Preston, Fowler, Dockery), and how unlikely it is for two rookies to come in and play well immediately, and the fact that EVERY starter on the OL is playing a different position than they did in 08, expecting quality play isn't reasonable.

[Night Train]

It's hardly coincidence that once Peters switched agents that his attitude changed drastically. Eugene Parker orchestrated this whole soap opera.

Peters doesn't have enough of his own brains ( see Wonderlic of 6 ) to stand for anything, outside of ordering takeout.

[OpIv37]

It's hardly coincidence that once Peters switched agents that his attitude changed drastically. Eugene Parker orchestrated this whole soap opera.

Peters doesn't have enough of his own brains ( see Wonderlic of 6 ) to stand for anything, outside of ordering takeout.

yeah I agree the whole thing was orchestrated by his agent. He's definitely too dumb to do it on his own. And I think his agent used him.

[yordad]

The Jets did it with Ferguson and Mangold. It isn't out of the realm of possibility to happen. Maybin will contribute to this team this year. He may start right away we don't know what happens. Maybin will do just as good if not better than Orakpo year one.OK there betting man. Ya wanna bet?

[justasportsfan]

Ban OP. Only allow him to post in a negative nancy forum. The guy should root for either Washington for Baltimore seeing as how he lives so close to them.
I don't think anyones who's been here for a few months should be going around telling us who should be banned and who shouldn't.

[Voltron]

Ban OP. Only allow him to post in a negative nancy forum. The guy should root for either Washington for Baltimore seeing as how he lives so close to them.
OpIv37 (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/member.php?u=346)
Member #346
kid mickey (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/member.php?u=29728)
Member #29728


LEARN YOUR PLACE NOOB!


:snicker:

[Mr. Pink]

I'm going to be different in this thread and say that the performance Peters put out in 2008 that he was GROSSLY overpaid, even at 3.5 million.

Fact of the matter is, even after being the worst LT in the league, he was still being offered the "highest contract ever to a Bill." Lee Evans ended up making over 10 million last season. Dude didn't want to be here anymore, period, as evidenced by him taking less from Philly. Even if we don't know exactly what the FO offered him.

At the very worst, he took the same amount of money to take his ball elsewhere.

[yordad]

OpIv37 (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/member.php?u=346)
Member #346
kid mickey (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/member.php?u=29728)
Member #29728


LEARN YOUR PLACE NOOB!


:snicker:Great argument......... from #164. No wait, it isn't. :snicker:

[WeAreArthurMoates]

To me, being underpaid and "bottom money" are the same thing. That's what "underpaid" means.

No actually there's a huge difference. Bottom money is the league minimum or close to it. Peters was well above that.

[Mudflap1]

For once, I am going to give props to Russ Brandon. He offered a legit deal, and Peters didn't want it. I know the Bills aren't "last of the big spenders", but offering Jason Peters the largest contract in Bills history is noteworthy. Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. Jason Peters is Philly's problem now. At least the Bills got a couple of prospects for him, and save the cap room.

Jon

[kid mickey]

OK there betting man. Ya wanna bet?

Sure what do you wanna bet? Zone bucks? I'm game to that. Oh and by the way to everybody out here, just because you've been on this board forever doesn't mean you are the ultimate football guru, I was on BBMB, for quite a while before I got banned and now this is by default the board I post at. Everybody has an opinion and everybody is entitled to express it. Could care less if you were here since this site was established.

[PromoTheRobot]

To me, being underpaid and "bottom money" are the same thing. That's what "underpaid" means. Under as in "low", "low" as in "near the bottom." You can believe his BS if you want to be gullible and defend the FO for every single move if you want, but that's not the reality.
OPI, take your fingers out of your ears and stopping screamming BLAH, BLAH, BLAH!

PTR

[Bill Cody]

Everybody has an opinion and everybody is entitled to express it.

If you feel that way why are you calling for people to be banned?:busted:

[kid mickey]

That is my opinion. I expressed it. Will it happen, no. Besides I told Op he was an okay guy. It was all in good fun. Dude is a serious negative nancy though.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Sure what do you wanna bet? Zone bucks? I'm game to that. Oh and by the way to everybody out here, just because you've been on this board forever doesn't mean you are the ultimate football guru, I was on BBMB, for quite a while before I got banned and now this is by default the board I post at. Everybody has an opinion and everybody is entitled to express it. Could care less if you were here since this site was established.Your post may just be a chooch. :poop:

[yordad]

Sure what do you wanna bet? Zone bucks? I'm game to that. Oh and by the way to everybody out here, just because you've been on this board forever doesn't mean you are the ultimate football guru, I was on BBMB, for quite a while before I got banned and now this is by default the board I post at. Everybody has an opinion and everybody is entitled to express it. Could care less if you were here since this site was established.OK, you being new and all, ya don't have much credit (no offense). And, yall newbies come and go....But, since ya only got 949 zbs, and I think this is an easy bet.... let's do it. I don't usually bet against the Bills, so obviously, this is one I would be happy to lose (seeing how unimportant zbs are to life, lol), I just really doubt I will.

949 zbs. Measurement? Sacks, TFL, tackles, pressures? Does anyone want to suggest what we should use as a measurement? I don't want to leave it open to interpretation or argument later.

[mikemac2001]

OK, you being new and all, ya don't have much credit (no offense). And, yall newbies come and go....But, since ya only got 949 zbs, and I think this is an easy bet.... let's do it. I don't usually bet against the Bills, so this is one I would be happy to lose (seeing how unimportant zbs are to life, lol), I just really doubt I will.

949 zbs. Measurement? Sacks, TFL, tackles, pressures? Does anyone want to suggest what we should use as a measurement? I don't want to leave it open to interpretation or argument later.

yordad you sure you wanna risk 949 zone bucks

[Nighthawk]

yordad you sure you wanna risk 949 zone bucks

You should get in on that, since you're member #949!

[yordad]

yordad you sure you wanna risk 949 zone bucksWhy, ya think he will be around when I unfortunately win this bet?

[Goobylal]

I'm going to be different in this thread and say that the performance Peters put out in 2008 that he was GROSSLY overpaid, even at 3.5 million.

Fact of the matter is, even after being the worst LT in the league, he was still being offered the "highest contract ever to a Bill." Lee Evans ended up making over 10 million last season. Dude didn't want to be here anymore, period, as evidenced by him taking less from Philly. Even if we don't know exactly what the FO offered him.

At the very worst, he took the same amount of money to take his ball elsewhere.
My biggest fear was that the Bills make Peters the highest-paid LT in the game, only to find out that 2008 was how he is now, after shredding his groin at the end of 2007. His performance last year was far from even average, and you'd think that he's have regained his 2007 for after just a month or so. But after his PC, I'm glad he's gone. What a tool!

[The Juice Is Loose]

To me, being underpaid and "bottom money" are the same thing. That's what "underpaid" means. Under as in "low", "low" as in "near the bottom." You can believe his BS if you want to be gullible and defend the FO for every single move if you want, but that's not the reality.

They offered him the largest contract in Buffalo Bills history and he turned it down. Anything prior to that is moot.

[kid mickey]

Why, ya think he will be around when I unfortunately win this bet?

No I'll be around you can bank on it. I've only been here three weeks and I already have close to 500 posts. So yeah I'll put up all my zone bucks that I have right now which is 949, that Maybin does better than Orakpo year one. We can go tackles for a loss, sacks, and tackles. Is pressures a recorded stat? I am down. I can't wait to take your zone bucks. You wanna do it in year two as well I am down. We can do it through their careers year after year if you want. I guarantee Maybin will be be leagues better than Orakpo. So yeah. Just one more question, how do you transfer zone bucks?

[yordad]

No I'll be around you can bank on it. I've only been here three weeks and I already have close to 500 posts. So yeah I'll put up all my zone bucks that I have right now which is 949, that Maybin does better than Orakpo year one. We can go tackles for a loss, sacks, and tackles. Is pressures a recorded stat? I am down. I can't wait to take your zone bucks. You wanna do it in year two as well I am down. We can do it through their careers year after year if you want. I guarantee Maybin will be be leagues better than Orakpo. So yeah. Just one more question, how do you transfer zone bucks?OK, TFL, sacks and tackles. Whoever gets 2 out of the three wins. Oh, and you have like 7 months to learn how to transfer. I will help when the time comes if you haven't learned already. Hang in there, and good luck (I mean it).

[HHURRICANE]

So we are not addressing OLB which means we have Ellison starting. That's just insane so I don't want to hear any *****ing when he sucks in September because he's proven he can't play the position.

As far as Peters is concerned Russ Brandon can spin it anyway he wants to make him look good. It's hard enough getting top talent on your team, and it's even harder to attract it in Buffalo. So when you groom one of the best players at a position in the league you do what you have to do to keep them because they don't come around that often.

Peters owed the Bills nothing. He worked hard and earned a roster spot and excelled at every position they gave him. This idea that he owed us something because he was a UDFA is ridiculous. It wasn't like he was on IR and we kept a spot open for him, etc. The guy made the team so end of story.

Bottom line is that the FO played chicken and lost. Anyone who wants to argue this point only has to look at the contract that he signed in Philly. If Peters plays great in Philly than what will the argument be on this board? Let me guess, that he didn't want to be here? Well, I've yet to see a quote from Peters or his agent to the contrary.

The Bills line would have looked pretty damn good with Peters-Levitre-Hangartner-Butler-Walker and a bunch of guys like Bell competing behind them.

Now we have a backup Center maning a line with 2 rookies and 2 guys playing positions that they are unproven at in the NFL.

You realize that not one player will have played a full season at their respective positions in the NFL?

Re-read that point and explain to me how you can justify "improved".

[yordad]

So we are not addressing OLB which means we have Ellison starting. That's just insane so I don't want to hear any *****ing when he sucks in September because he's proven he can't play the position.

As far as Peters is concerned Russ Brandon can spin it anyway he wants to make him look good. It's hard enough getting top talent on your team, and it's even harder to attract it in Buffalo. So when you groom one of the best players at a position in the league you do what you have to do to keep them because they don't come around that often.

Peters owed the Bills nothing. He worked hard and earned a roster spot and excelled at every position they gave him. This idea that he owed us something because he was a UDFA is ridiculous. It wasn't like he was on IR and we kept a spot open for him, etc. The guy made the team so end of story.

Bottom line is that the FO played chicken and lost. Anyone who wants to argue this point only has to look at the contract that he signed in Philly. If Peters plays great in Philly than what will the argument be on this board? Let me guess, that he didn't want to be here? Well, I've yet to see a quote from Peters or his agent to the contrary.

The Bills line would have looked pretty damn good with Peters-Levitre-Hangartner-Butler-Walker and a bunch of guys like Bell competing behind them.

Now we have a backup Center maning a line with 2 rookies and 2 guys playing positions that they are unproven at in the NFL.

You realize that not one player will have played a full season at their respective positions in the NFL?

Re-read that point and explain to me how you can justify "improved".Yet somehow the Billls owed Peters something? The dude was under contract. Even if no one owed no one, THE DUDE WAS UNDER CONTRACT. Peters agent can say anything he wants about Peters' desire. Actions speak louder then words.

How do I justify "improved"? Well, I can bet my house the effort will be higher, and they will be smarter. Time needs to tick before it can be "proved" if that is what you are asking.

[Philagape]

Peters owed the Bills nothing. He worked hard and earned a roster spot and excelled at every position they gave him. This idea that he owed us something because he was a UDFA is ridiculous.

He owed the Bills his full commitment and effort every minute he wore the uniform. Because he was being paid to do that. He didn't give it.
Even if one can accept that players under contract hold out, what's unacceptable is slacking on the field and endangering his teammates. And that's on top of wanting more money than he deserved and rejecting a very generous offer.
Jason Peters is a despicable cancer and a disgrace to the uniform. Not only should he be off the team, but I wish there was a way the Bills could sue him for the money he did make, such as it was.

[kid mickey]

OK, TFL, sacks and tackles. Whoever gets 2 out of the three wins. Oh, and you have like 7 months to learn how to transfer. I will help when the time comes if you haven't learned already. Hang in there, and good luck (I mean it).

Best of luck to you as well. Oh and don't forget to check out my article that will be on the homepage tomorrow.

[Goobylal]

So we are not addressing OLB which means we have Ellison starting. That's just insane so I don't want to hear any *****ing when he sucks in September because he's proven he can't play the position.

As far as Peters is concerned Russ Brandon can spin it anyway he wants to make him look good. It's hard enough getting top talent on your team, and it's even harder to attract it in Buffalo. So when you groom one of the best players at a position in the league you do what you have to do to keep them because they don't come around that often.

Peters owed the Bills nothing. He worked hard and earned a roster spot and excelled at every position they gave him. This idea that he owed us something because he was a UDFA is ridiculous. It wasn't like he was on IR and we kept a spot open for him, etc. The guy made the team so end of story.

Bottom line is that the FO played chicken and lost. Anyone who wants to argue this point only has to look at the contract that he signed in Philly. If Peters plays great in Philly than what will the argument be on this board? Let me guess, that he didn't want to be here? Well, I've yet to see a quote from Peters or his agent to the contrary.

The Bills line would have looked pretty damn good with Peters-Levitre-Hangartner-Butler-Walker and a bunch of guys like Bell competing behind them.

Now we have a backup Center maning a line with 2 rookies and 2 guys playing positions that they are unproven at in the NFL.

You realize that not one player will have played a full season at their respective positions in the NFL?

Re-read that point and explain to me how you can justify "improved".
Ellison isn't going to be handed the starting OLB job. He'll have to earn it from Bowen, Pat Thomas, and Nic Harris.

And the Bills' O-line will be vastly improved over last year's O-line, because underperforming and overpaid malcontents like Peters and Dockery will be gone, along with the talentless Preston/Fowler. I know that Walker will at least be there the whole off-season and give a damn about his performance, even though he's being "grossly underpaid" by making just $5M/year to play LT.

[Mitchell55]

I think Russ has been one of the best things that has happened to the bills in a while. Getting Stroud, Kawika, TO, Maybin, Wood, Levitre, Hangartner, and resigning Evans. I give him a solid B+ as our GM. It would be a A but get rid of the staff.

[Captain gameboy]

Peters owed the Bills nothing?

Are you kidding me?

How about living up to contractual obligations.

Do you understand the ramifications of what you are suggesting here?
Does any agreed to promise mean anything anymore?

Why even have contracts? Lets go week to week.

[kid mickey]

Jauron has got one more year to lead this team to greatness. If he doesn't have a winning season, he is gone back to being a defensive coordinator. Don't count him out yet, Marv didn't win right away either. Then he got it together.

[Captain gameboy]

Jauron has got one more year to lead this team to greatness. If he doesn't have a winning season, he is gone back to being a defensive coordinator. Don't count him out yet, Marv didn't win right away either. Then he got it together.

Are you saying there is a Polian forthcoming?

[kid mickey]

Nope Russ Brandon is the GM

[Typ0]

but the contracts aren't binding to the end for the team or the player. They are just what they are going to play for when they play. Honestly, it looks like JP did not want to play in Buffalo. That is not an unreasonable thing for a person. You need and deserve to be happy where you are at. So he went about going somewhere else and he did it without bashing the team, city or causing a big stink about anything like we have seen other players do. I don't hate JP because he didn't want to play here and respect him for showing some respect in the way he handled the situation. His being out LT on the way to the Super Bowl just wasn't mean to be.

[MikeInRoch]

Honestly, it looks like JP did not want to play in Buffalo. That is not an unreasonable thing for a person.

The he shouldn't have signed a contract here. Or an extension. It's not like we actually drafted him.


You need and deserve to be happy where you are at.

No, actually. You don't ever "deserve" to be happy.


So he went about going somewhere else and he did it without bashing the team, city or causing a big stink about anything like we have seen other players do.

No, he just didn't bother to show up. Or contact his team.


I don't hate JP because he didn't want to play here and respect him for showing some respect in the way he handled the situation.

I don't hate him for not wanting to play here. I hate him because he handled it atrociously, and showed ZERO respect to this team and teammates.

[HHURRICANE]

Yet somehow the Billls owed Peters something? The dude was under contract. Even if no one owed no one, THE DUDE WAS UNDER CONTRACT. Peters agent can say anything he wants about Peters' desire. Actions speak louder then words.

How do I justify "improved"? Well, I can bet my house the effort will be higher, and they will be smarter. Time needs to tick before it can be "proved" if that is what you are asking.

You realize he left and got a new contract?

The Bills had to trade or give him a new deal because he was grossly underpaid. The Bills didn't give him a "new, lucrative" offer because he was under contract.

[psubills62]

You realize he left and got a new contract?

The Bills had to trade or give him a new deal because he was grossly underpaid. The Bills didn't give him a "new, lucrative" offer because he was under contract.




"We worked on that for five or six months, and we offered Jason an enormous contract – the largest contract in Bills history – and he had no interest in it."


Say again?

[Dr. Lecter]

You realize he left and got a new contract?

The Bills had to trade or give him a new deal because he was grossly underpaid. The Bills didn't give him a "new, lucrative" offer because he was under contract.

They did make a new lucrative offer to him. He declined it.

At the end of the day, the FO should have signed him. I agree with that.

But you attitude that this is all on Brandon and co. is ridiculous. This man showed up the day before game #1 so he would get paid for the game, despite not being able to play. So he felt strongly enough to hold out, but not strong enough to miss a game check. He also showed up out of shape. I am sure you remember, as well as I do, Bruce holding out all of the time. Yet, he never harmed the team but missing games or being out of shape.

He was offered the biggest deal in team history. They realized he was underpaid and tried to rectify it.

Let's not blame this entirely one one side. That is insane to do so. And to act as if Peters did not owe the Bills, his teammates and the fans his best effort is ludicrous.

[kid mickey]

Who really cares? I know its a thought in the back of people's mind, but honestly we will be fine without him. Glad he is gone. That means the Bills have a lot more cash they can use on other players when the time comes. Cut all the fat from this team and get ready to pay Edwards. If he has a career year he is going to get a decent contract extension. Could put some serious cash in his pocket.

[HHURRICANE]

They did make a new lucrative offer to him. He declined it.

At the end of the day, the FO should have signed him. I agree with that.

But you attitude that this is all on Brandon and co. is ridiculous. This man showed up the day before game #1 so he would get paid for the game, despite not being able to play. So he felt strongly enough to hold out, but not strong enough to miss a game check. He also showed up out of shape. I am sure you remember, as well as I do, Bruce holding out all of the time. Yet, he never harmed the team but missing games or being out of shape.

He was offered the biggest deal in team history. They realized he was underpaid and tried to rectify it.

Let's not blame this entirely one one side. That is insane to do so. And to act as if Peters did not owe the Bills, his teammates and the fans his best effort is ludicrous.

Never said that Peters couldn't of handled it better. We agree. Sitting out the pre-season pissed me of as much as anyone.

I keep hearing on this board how he should have honored his contract. Well even the Bills agreed that he shouldn't because they offered him more money in the end. So as you said, they recognized he was underpaid with two years left on his deal.

Last point. You don't know what the offer is. For argument sake the contract could have been 100 million dollars but all in incentives. So is that a realistic contract? No. So when they say it was the biggest in Bills history there is a thousand ways to spin that. The only way I'm buying Barndon's BS is if he comes out and says what the offer was. I'm dying to know and I'll shut my mouth if it's even close to Philly's offer, which at 10 million a year, isn't that unreasonable when you are paying Schobel 8 million a year and kelsay 6 million a year.

[Dr. Lecter]

You do know, that by saying that Schobel's deal is 8 million per and Kelsay's is 6 million per that you are using the same incentives that you are saying would not count in Peters deal, don't you?

You can't make their deals the max amounts for comparison purposes and then ignore the max amount they were offering to Peters.

[HHURRICANE]

You do know, that by saying that Schobel's deal is 8 million per and Kelsay's is 6 million per that you are using the same incentives that you are saying would not count in Peters deal, don't you?

You can't make their deals the max amounts for comparison purposes and then ignore the max amount they were offering to Peters.

I won't speak for Kelsay but the Buffalo News reported 6 million guaranteed this year like a week ago.

As for Schobel I'm pretty sure that Schobel made 8 million dollars without making a pro-bowl etc. last year. Someone here posted the offical number that the NFL had for cap purposes.

But not to get off subject we don't know what Peter's deal is so in my mind, until proven diffrently, Brandon's just covering his ass.

[psubills62]

Never said that Peters couldn't of handled it better. We agree. Sitting out the pre-season pissed me of as much as anyone.

I keep hearing on this board how he should have honored his contract. Well even the Bills agreed that he shouldn't because they offered him more money in the end. So as you said, they recognized he was underpaid with two years left on his deal.

Last point. You don't know what the offer is. For argument sake the contract could have been 100 million dollars but all in incentives. So is that a realistic contract? No. So when they say it was the biggest in Bills history there is a thousand ways to spin that. The only way I'm buying Barndon's BS is if he comes out and says what the offer was. I'm dying to know and I'll shut my mouth if it's even close to Philly's offer, which at 10 million a year, isn't that unreasonable when you are paying Schobel 8 million a year and kelsay 6 million a year.

I think that OBD recognizing that he was underpaid is VERY different than Buffalo agreeing that he didn't need to honor his contract. Being underpaid does not give Peters an excuse to bail out on his team right before a season of very high expectations.

Well the largest in Buffalo history would be at least 9 million per year. And yes, you could say "well, it could have been all in incentives," but no team would seriously offer a contract like that to a guy they're trying to sign long-term.

And btw, how many incentives are in the contract from Philly? Just curious, since I did hear the term "maximum value" when talking about Peters' contract there. Anyone know?

[psubills62]

I won't speak for Kelsay but the Buffalo News reported 6 million guaranteed this year like a week ago.

As for Schobel I'm pretty sure that Schobel made 8 million dollars without making a pro-bowl etc. last year. Someone here posted the offical number that the NFL had for cap purposes.

But not to get off subject we don't know what Peter's deal is so in my mind, until proven diffrently, Brandon's just covering his ass.

Really? Or are you just not willing to give them the benefit of the doubt?

We all know that the Bills have let some guys leave when they shouldn't have (e.g. Pat Williams). But by all means, name one time when the Bills have tried to re-sign someone by offering a contract that is a good deal below market value for that player.

Evans got more than what most people think he deserved, as did Kelsay, Schobel, etc.

When the Bills offer to re-sign a player, it is almost always for quite a bit of money.

[HHURRICANE]

I think that OBD recognizing that he was underpaid is VERY different than Buffalo agreeing that he didn't need to honor his contract. Being underpaid does not give Peters an excuse to bail out on his team right before a season of very high expectations.

Well the largest in Buffalo history would be at least 9 million per year. And yes, you could say "well, it could have been all in incentives," but no team would seriously offer a contract like that to a guy they're trying to sign long-term.

And btw, how many incentives are in the contract from Philly? Just curious, since I did hear the term "maximum value" when talking about Peters' contract there. Anyone know?

24 Million is guaranteed which to me seems very low. And what if the Bills offer was the same but only 18 million was guaranteed.

The Bills just got burned with Dockery so maybe the guaranteed portion was very low. Your assumption is that the Bills wanted to keep him but I'm not sure that's the case. Why not pay him 10 million a year? That didn't seem that unreasonable. It wasn't the 11.5 that everybody thought he was asking for.

[kid mickey]

shouldn't this stuff be in the NFL forum? The guy doesn't play for us anymore.

[psubills62]

24 Million is guaranteed which to me seems very low. And what if the Bills offer was the same but only 18 million was guaranteed.

The Bills just got burned with Dockery so maybe the guaranteed portion was very low. Your assumption is that the Bills wanted to keep him but I'm not sure that's the case. Why not pay him 10 million a year? That didn't seem that unreasonable. It wasn't the 11.5 that everybody thought he was asking for.

Well then I'll go the other way with the "what if," and say what if the Bills offered 30 million guaranteed? You can't just blame Brandon by assuming he low-balled Peters. How many guys has he low-balled lately? Feel free to name one.

Yes, that's my assumption because by every account, they sent him multiple contract offers. Why bother doing that if they didn't want to keep him? And no, they wouldn't do that just to keep up pretenses. Teams don't offer guys contracts that high as a farce.

Maybe the Bills did offer him 10 million a year - maybe they offered more. I was just saying that the largest in history (on a per-year basis) had to be more than Evans' contract, which was about 9 million a year.

[Dr. Lecter]

I won't speak for Kelsay but the Buffalo News reported 6 million guaranteed this year like a week ago.

As for Schobel I'm pretty sure that Schobel made 8 million dollars without making a pro-bowl etc. last year. Someone here posted the offical number that the NFL had for cap purposes.

But not to get off subject we don't know what Peter's deal is so in my mind, until proven diffrently, Brandon's just covering his ass.

Making 6 million this year or 8 million last year is NOT the same as 6 or 8 million per year.

[Buddo]

Something else of note in all this, that seems to have been conveniently bypassed, is the fact that Peters actually was receiving more money than first thought, due to there being a clause about moving to LT, in the contract he signed a couple of years ago. He probably wasn't quite at the poverty line for LTs after all. Something else that gets conveniently ignored, is the fact that Peters has had his signing bonus, that would ordinarily be counted over 5 years, in terms of how well a guy is being paid, just over 3 years. That also represents a 'raise'.
I have to say that all the 'quibbling' about what numbers the Bills actually offered, seems pretty pointless tbh. Peters became a clown who wanted out. That is the reality.
Anyone who thinks that Peters wouldn't have actually got the $ from a deal with the Bills, is being pretty stupid. Apart from anything else, it pretty much is not the way they do business. If Peters had signed a 5 or 6 year deal with the Bills, that averaged out at say $9 million, I seriously doubt that he wouldn't have seen all of that cash, unless he became injured or continued his poor play from last year, and got himself cut.
Also, if, as advertised, the deal Peters made with the Eagles, is just an extension, then Peters actually can quite easily be seen to have shot himself in the foot. Any deal with the Bills would have started immediately. Simply another sign, if true, that Peters wanted out.
I, like just about anyone else on here, has no actual knowledge of what was offered. All we can assume, is that it was around $9 million per, as that would be above Evans deal. From my own pov, that was both a fair and a good offer. Peters didn't take it, so off he went. I don't blame the FO at all in this, and I see no real reason why anyone else should either.

[acehole]

Bottom line is somtimes good players are either no longer needed or wanted. J peters was a fan favorite and Russ has to say we really tried to keep him whether he did or not. That was to much money to put into a position that is not a priority in this system. Remember we are not going down field as we use to so holding pass blocking for long won't happen often....why pay a guy a boat load to hold blocks for -3-4 seconds. Our gaurds are more reguarded as we do run the ball and is a higher priority. I for one think J peters was a stud...but I also think is was best for the team to trade him and to replace him with basically wood and levitra from a production stand piont we will come out great in the end. The 5th rounder next year is gravy. It is Russ job to spin as is J Peters..in the end he did not want to be here....so fugham. Wood and Leviti seem to.



Making 6 million this year or 8 million last year is NOT the same as 6 or 8 million per year.