Bills 2009 Draft Review

[Ingtar33]

Ok, as promised earlier, I figured I'd toss out a small review of what I thought about the Bills picks.

1) Aaron Maybin - Best pure pass rushing end in the draft, with an almost inhuman jump on the snap. I know the knock on him is his weight, but lets not forget that Javon Kearse is almost the exact same size. If Maybin can give us the 10 sacks Kearse gave the Titans in his rookie year then this will be a defensive rookie of the year type pick. While he has a pretty developed pass rush toolkit, his hands aren't great, which makes this pick not a lock (bad hands means OTs probably will be able to engulf him). He is really raw, with a lot of upside. So depending on his drive to improve he'll either be a steal at 11, or a bust. Orakpo was a physical wonder, and well rounded as well, but he was no where near the passrusher Maybin is. Pretty good pick.

Grade: B+ If his hands were better, I'd rate this higher, but really, you can't argue with grabbing the best pure passrusher in the draft (frankly the best pure passrusher at DE since Peppers came out) after watching that joke of a passrush last year. I'm frankly stunned he wasn't taken before 11. Possible day 1 starter (would be higher if i thought he was an every down player out of the gate)

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2) Eric Wood - For my money he was the best Center in the draft. Yes, he's a little limited in space, not getting to the 2nd level as easily as Mack or Unger, but his intangibles are first rate. This guy is mean, tough, and smart. He's also a bit better of a run blocker then either Mack or Unger. Hartinger, while penciled in as starter at Center will likely be moved to Guard before the season is through, with Wood ending up in the middle. First day starter on the line. love the pick.

Grade: A About time the bills address the center of their line. A decade later then i would like, but this is a great pick.

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3) Jairus Byrd - He killed himself in the combine with a poor 40 time, but when you watch him play, he doesn't play anything like a player with 4.6 40 time. He's got great break on the ball, good hands, and has great instincts. In short, with a 4.4 40 time, he would have gone in the top 15 picks. The Bills say he'll play safety, i think as a ball hawking free safety he'll probably thrive. Before the draft i would have summed him up as an ideal 2 deep zone DB... we'll see if that's the case.

Grade: B Probable day 1 starter at FS in round 2, you can't ask for better. Possibly limited physically is the only warning sign.

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4) Andy Levitre - Great late 2nd round pickup... more then worth the trade up, he was clearly the best pure guard in this draft, with a mean attitude and viscous demeanor in run blocking he'll quickly become a fan favorite. Yet another day 1 starter from what seems like a great draft.

Grade: A+ Simply put a great pickup, no one better to be had here.

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5) Shawn Nelson - Amazing day 2 steal, Nelson was hands down the most talented receiving TE in the draft. He runs great routs, has great speed, and great hands. Reminds me a lot of Shanon Sharpe, who was built the same, and was just as forgettable a run blocker when he came out of college. If he can get even average in the run blocking game he'll be an instant starter, as his receiving skills are heads and shoulders better then any of the other tight ends we have on the roster.

Grade: A Great late round steal, he should be an instant contributor, and possible day 1 starter.

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6) Nic Harris - This pick intrigued me, as anyone who watched the Sooners couldn't possibly miss Harris flying around the field. In some ways he reminded me of Roy Williams (not quite as good), as he played what basically amounts to a position similar to the 46 defense's SS in the Sooners defense. The word is the Bills plan to move him to Sam, which would be a good fit for his skills, especially in a Tampa 2, which needs OLBs who can move fast and have good ball skills. You could wish for a little more size, but his frame leaves him with a good 10 pounds to be added without too much problem, so maybe that's not much of a concern. The interesting thing about this pick will be how he takes to the Sam position, because he certainly has the coverage skills to start day 1 (especially when you consider he'll be competing with Ellison)

Grade: B- This would be a B+ if he actually played some OLB in college. I wish he was a little faster, but you can't deny he's got a good nose for the football, and some well developed pass rushing skills. Project pick, which might turn out pretty good in the end.

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Cary Harris He has the look of a classic cover 2 DB. Not sure what the bills will do with him though. Probably a depth pick up or special teams fodder, im not sure if there is a lot of room for him on the roster, but you never know. Fairly polished, there isn't a lot he can do technique wise to get better. Might be better off at one of the safety positions, but you can't deny he's built just like most Tampa 2 CBs... 5'8"-5'10" 180.

Grade: C- His physical limits might make this a wasted pick... I know im asking for a lot from a 6th round pick, but i would have liked it more if we grabbed someone who was less polished and had more physical tools.

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Ellis Lankster What i wrote for Cary Harris could be said about Lankster, though i think he is slightly more physically gifted, and slightly less polished technically. Like Harris, i don't know if he'd make a better safety or CB, but he does fit a zone scheme better then a man. I suspect he was drafted for depth at SS. But that's just a personal hunch.

Grade: C+ Not a bad pick, nothing to write home about, he'll have some difficult making the final squad unless he can excel on special teams, or make the jump to Safety.



Overall Draft Grade: A-

You can't argue with a draft where we grabbed 3 certain (possibly as many as 5) day 1 starters. Overall i think the Bills made themselves a much better football team, filling a lot of glaring gaps in their roster, and adding a little depth as well.

[The Spaz]

Very nice thanks!:clap:

[hammerbillsfan]

good insight Ingtar! :gobills:

[casdhf]

Ralph is cheap!

[elltrain22]

Great insight!! So exciting to hear so many rave reviews about Wood & Levitre. 135 more days!!!

[Goobylal]

Ok, as promised earlier, I figured I'd toss out a small review of what I thought about the Bills picks.

1) Aaron Maybin - Best pure pass rushing end in the draft, with an almost inhuman jump on the snap. I know the knock on him is his weight, but lets not forget that Javon Kearse is almost the exact same size. If Maybin can give us the 10 sacks Kearse gave the Titans in his rookie year then this will be a defensive rookie of the year type pick. While he has a pretty developed pass rush toolkit, his hands aren't great, which makes this pick not a lock (bad hands means OTs probably will be able to engulf him). He is really raw, with a lot of upside. So depending on his drive to improve he'll either be a steal at 11, or a bust. Orakpo was a physical wonder, and well rounded as well, but he was no where near the passrusher Maybin is. Pretty good pick.
Proper hand usage can be taught. Jump on the ball, not so much.

[Devin]

:bf1: was waiting for this! Great writeup man!

[yordad]

1st Maybin- I would rather have had Orakpo. I hope I was wrong because I am all aboard the Maybin Express now. Time will tell.

B

Last 1st Wood- Not bad. I was expecting Eben Britton (OT), Patrick Chung (s) might have been alright. I was very surprised Everette Brown was still available, and he was who I really wanted here. Time will tell here, but this is a solid

B

2nd Jarius Byrd- Huh? I really, really wanted Brown here. I mean seriously? I would also have like OLB Clint Sintim. Either would have been a steal. Byrd has got some serious impressing to do. After hearing they plan to make him a safety, it takes some sting off this

D

Late 2nd Any Levitre- This would have been a solid pick... if we didn't just draft one guard. I assumed they were trading up for Phil Loadholt (OT), but I was clearly wrong. Levitre is solid,but they could have stayed pat and still got a good lineman in Caldwell, Vasquez, or Kraig Urbik. Admittedly, I would have used the 3rd round on Jared Cook, so I wouldn't have been perfect either. No one could have predicted they would get Nelson in the late 4th.

In the 4th they could have gotten Cornerback D.J. Moore who was considered by many to be 1st round talent. He could have saved some money when it comes to re-signing Mcgee. The Bears got a huge steal here. I probably would have taken Marcus Freeman (OLB) though, because I wouldn't have know he would be still available one round later (the Bears got him too).

D

Late 4th Shawn Nelson- Oh my I was hoping he would fall.

A++

5th Nic Harris- Another project? Why not just draft a guy who played OLB if they wanted an OLB. This should have been Freeman, all day. At least they took a OLB.

C-

Past this, I think it would have been nice to grad a FB. Brannan Southerland (http://www.nfl.com/draft/2009/profiles/brannan-southerland?id=79647) went undrafted. He would have been a day one starter here. In stead we got some no-chancers.

Overall- C

[The Spaz]

This is Ingtar's report not yours yordad. Make your own bashing thread.:up:

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Did you guys read Chris Brown's blog today about Maybin's feet? Size 15!

Ever seen a speed skater's blades? A mile long. The more contact with the surface the more push off you get. Looks like there is a legit reason why he comes off the block faster than everyone else and it can't be taught.

[Ingtar33]

not bad Yordad. But i think the difference in how we view this draft is based purely on perception.

by your comments you clearly thought the inside of the bills o-line was alright.

I do not. In fact, since the turn of the decade the inside of our line has been consistently poor. I was thrilled to see the bills address this, rather then draft yet another tackle. (Part of the problem the Bills have had with the OL is that we fill all 5 spots with tackles. Simply put, we rarely had guys on the line who actually played inside durring college. The result is we often had "soft" hearts to our lines, with guards and centers who couldn't handle bull rushes, or couldn't get into the 2nd level particularly well). When you add Hartinger and McKinney to the mix we have 4 "true" inside the tackle linemen, for the first time in a decade. We'll be moving the poorly miscast RG Butler (who never played guard in college, and it showed) back outside where he belongs. That's positive as far as im concerned.

Now, the final question becomes, do you trust Walker at LT? That's the million dollar question. I don't know if im thrilled with that idea, but i would rather 4 strong linemen, and one weak one, then 3 or 4 weak linemen and 1 strong one, like it looked like we were going to have before the draft (even if the weak one is LT).

I think we went a long way toward laying the foundation for a fantastic offensive line.

Now the players have to go out there and do it.

[Goobylal]

not bad Yordad. But i think the difference in how we view this draft is based purely on perception.

by your comments you clearly thought the inside of the bills o-line was alright.

I do not. In fact, since the turn of the decade the inside of our line has been consistently poor. I was thrilled to see the bills address this, rather then draft yet another tackle. (Part of the problem the Bills have had with the OL is that we fill all 5 spots with tackles. Simply put, we rarely had guys on the line who actually played inside durring college. The result is we often had "soft" hearts to our lines, with guards and centers who couldn't handle bull rushes, or couldn't get into the 2nd level particularly well). When you add Hartinger and McKinney to the mix we have 4 "true" inside the tackle linemen, for the first time in a decade. We'll be moving the poorly miscast RG Butler (who never played guard in college, and it showed) back outside where he belongs. That's positive as far as im concerned.

Now, the final question becomes, do you trust Walker at LT? That's the million dollar question. I don't know if im thrilled with that idea, but i would rather 4 strong linemen, and one weak one, then 3 or 4 weak linemen and 1 strong one, like it looked like we were going to have before the draft (even if the weak one is LT).

I think we went a long way toward laying the foundation for a fantastic offensive line.

Now the players have to go out there and do it.
Butler has been one of the best players the past couple years. I'm curious to see what he can do at RT. And it's Hangartner, not Hartinger.

[Ingtar33]

Butler has been one of the best players the past couple years. I'm curious to see what he can do at RT. And it's Hangartner, not Hartinger.


good call on hangarter... lol.

Butler has only looked good because the center and the LG opposite him have looked so bad. in reality he was a bellow average or mediocre guard, but in his spot action as a tackle i've loved him.

[yordad]

This is Ingtar's report not yours yordad. Make your own bashing thread.:up:What, were we all supposed to make our own "Bills 2009 Draft Review" thread? I thought the right thing to do would be to just post it here. :idunno:

[The Spaz]

What, were we all supposed to make our own "Bills 2009 Draft Review" thread? I thought the right thing to do would be to just post it here. :idunno:

Why not make your own is all I'm saying. That way people can review just your report.

[yordad]

not bad Yordad. But i think the difference in how we view this draft is based purely on perception.

by your comments you clearly thought the inside of the bills o-line was alright.

I do not. In fact, since the turn of the decade the inside of our line has been consistently poor. I was thrilled to see the bills address this, rather then draft yet another tackle. (Part of the problem the Bills have had with the OL is that we fill all 5 spots with tackles. Simply put, we rarely had guys on the line who actually played inside durring college. The result is we often had "soft" hearts to our lines, with guards and centers who couldn't handle bull rushes, or couldn't get into the 2nd level particularly well). When you add Hartinger and McKinney to the mix we have 4 "true" inside the tackle linemen, for the first time in a decade. We'll be moving the poorly miscast RG Butler (who never played guard in college, and it showed) back outside where he belongs. That's positive as far as im concerned.

Now, the final question becomes, do you trust Walker at LT? That's the million dollar question. I don't know if im thrilled with that idea, but i would rather 4 strong linemen, and one weak one, then 3 or 4 weak linemen and 1 strong one, like it looked like we were going to have before the draft (even if the weak one is LT).

I think we went a long way toward laying the foundation for a fantastic offensive line.

Now the players have to go out there and do it.I think Butler was good at G. I consider Hangartner to be an upgrade at center. We got Wood, which again, wasn't bad. I liked an inside of Butler, Hangartner, and Wood. But, at this point, I want to get someone, anyone, who may grow to be a good LT. Because I do not think we have a solution anywhere right now. I am not convinced Langston can stay solid there for "the future", let alone, 16 games.

The only possible long term solution on the entire roster is D. Bell, last years 7th rounder. That is a lot of faith they are seemingly putting in this guy. Now, what if he is better, sooner then later? What if Butler at RT or Walker at LT is just horrible, and they decided to try D.Bell out there at the bye? What if he enters at OT. What do you do with Butler now? Do you put him back inside, then move Wood to the left guard spot, and put Levitre (a guy that cost you two good picks) on the bench?

That is a lot of swapping around. I would have preferred the inside of Butler, Hangartner, and Wood. Then letting Bell, Chambers, Britton/Loadholt fight it out for the RT while Langston temporary held the left. With Bell, Britton, or Loadholt starting on the right for 8 games (to the bye), or even a season, we could then possibly have a future solution for LT, and if a swap happened, everyone else stays the same.

[yordad]

Why not make your own is all I'm saying. That way people can review just your report.I guess I just didn't realize you were going to like it so much. I wasn't trying to steal Ingtar33's thunder, and I don't think I did. I was just trying to share my opinion back with him, and the rest of ya.

[Mitchell55]

I guess I just didn't realize you were going to like it so much. I wasn't trying to steal Ingtar33's thunder, and I don't think I did. I was just trying to share my opinion back with him, and the rest of ya.




If it makes you feel any better, I didnt even read your report.

[Goobylal]

I think Butler was good at G. I consider Hartinger to be an upgrade at center. We got Wood, which again, wasn't bad. I liked an inside of Butler, Hartinger, and Wood. But, at this point, I want to get someone, anyone, who may grow to be a good LT. Because I do not think we have a solution anywhere right now. I am not convinced Langston can stay solid there for "the future", let alone, 16 games.

The only possible long term solution on the entire roster is D. Bell, last years 7th rounder. That is a lot of faith they are seemingly putting in this guy. Now, what if he is better, sooner then later? What if Butler at RT or Walker at LT is just horrible, and they decided to try D.Bell out there at the bye? What if he enters at OT. What do you do with Butler now? Do you put him back inside, then move Wood to the left guard spot, and put Levitre (a guy that cost you two good picks) on the bench?

That is a lot of swapping around. I would have preferred the inside of Butler, Hartinger, and Wood. Then letting Bell, Chambers, Britton/Loadholt fight it out for the RT while Langston temporary held the left. With Bell, Britton, or Loadholt starting on the right for 8 games (to the bye), or even a season, we could then possibly have a future solution for LT, and if a swap happened, everyone else stays the same.
If Walker proves to be good at LT and Butler good at RT, they'll probably let Bell develop another year. If Walker struggles, they probably give Bell a shot and help (TE on his side) if needed. If Butler struggles, they probably start Bell, give him help, and put Walker back at RT.

[Ingtar33]

I think Butler was good at G. I consider Hangartner to be an upgrade at center. We got Wood, which again, wasn't bad. I liked an inside of Butler, Hangartner, and Wood. But, at this point, I want to get someone, anyone, who may grow to be a good LT. Because I do not think we have a solution anywhere right now. I am not convinced Langston can stay solid there for "the future", let alone, 16 games.

The only possible long term solution on the entire roster is D. Bell, last years 7th rounder. That is a lot of faith they are seemingly putting in this guy. Now, what if he is better, sooner then later? What if Butler at RT or Walker at LT is just horrible, and they decided to try D.Bell out there at the bye? What if he enters at OT. What do you do with Butler now? Do you put him back inside, then move Wood to the left guard spot, and put Levitre (a guy that cost you two good picks) on the bench?

That is a lot of swapping around. I would have preferred the inside of Butler, Hangartner, and Wood. Then letting Bell, Chambers, Britton/Loadholt fight it out for the RT while Langston temporary held the left. With Bell, Britton, or Loadholt starting on the right for 8 games (to the bye), or even a season, we could then possibly have a future solution for LT, and if a swap happened, everyone else stays the same.

All fair points.

I didn't like butler at guard because he was at his best a C+ guard. and a C+ line isn't going to win you a lot of games, unless you have the Pittsburgh Steeler's defense.

If Butler can do better at tackle then he did at guard we have something. The little he played at tackle last year, he did pretty good. Better then i thought he did at Guard

Personally, i think you'll see Wood at center before the first game of the year, and Hangartner at guard. Mostly because guard is Hangartner's better position.

[yordad]

I think it is also worth mention Duke Robinson lasted til the end of the 5th.

1. Orakpo
1. Britton
2. E. Brown
3. DJ Moore or Caldwell
4. S. Nelson
4. Freeman
5. Duke Robinson
6. Southerland (FB)

0R

1. Maybin
1. Wood
2. Byrd
2. Levitre
4. Nelson
5. Harris
6. Harris

[The Spaz]

We will find out if center or guard is hangartner's best position. He thinks center is his best position.

[Mitchell55]

I think it is also worth mention Duke Robinson lasted til the end of the 5th.

1. Orakpo
1. Britton
2. E. Brown
3. DJ Moore or Caldwell
4. S. Nelson
4. Freeman
5. Duke Robinson
6. Southerland (FB)



32 teams passed up on him 5 times, why would we want to take him?

[TigerJ]

My only criticism of your write up, Ingtar is that the Bills' center is Hangartner, not Hartinger. A lot of people wonder about those last two picks, but if you're going to waste a couple of picks it's far better that they be in rounds six and seven than rounds one and two. I think the only way they could have had a better first six picks would have been to find a sure fire starting left tackle.

[Ingtar33]

My only criticism of your write up, Ingtar is that the Bills' center is Hangartner, not Hartinger. A lot of people wonder about those last two picks, but if you're going to waste a couple of picks it's far better that they be in rounds six and seven than rounds one and two. I think the only way they could have had a better first six picks would have been to find a sure fire starting left tackle.


I loved the bell pick last year because i thought he had the potential to be something special... maybe not this soon.

But i can't fault your comments. the only place i could pick a LT better the the guy we took was when we made our first pick, yet we need pass rush so much, i can't fault the bills for taking one. Especially since it was Maybin. Had it been Orakpo or Brown, i would have had a lot of problem with that pick... i never in my wildest dreams imagined that Maybin was on the board at 11.

that would have been like Peppers falling past 5 when he was taken in 2002 at number 2

[yordad]

32 teams passed up on him 5 times, why would we want to take him?
Your kidding, right?

[don137]

One thing I wonder about is how fast will it take these players to get acclimated to their new positions. Wood, Byrd and Harris are being brought in to play another position than they did at college.

[psubills62]

One thing I wonder about is how fast will it take these players to get acclimated to their new positions. Wood, Byrd and Harris are being brought in to play another position than they did at college.

But the good thing is that the positions they are moving too generally require similar skill sets to what they used in college.

I don't know for sure, but it sounds like Harris was more of an in-the-box safety, so converting to linebacker still uses him in the box, but now he's simply a LB instead of S. Byrd is still going to cover, he just covers more of the field and has a chance to use his instincts. Wood is just moving one spot over on the line.

I just don't see it as a huge deal. Maybe if we were converting someone from tight end to linebacker, or defensive tackle to offensive tackle, then I would be concerned. But these position changes just don't worry me that much.

[psubills62]

Good analysis Ingtar.

I think Buffalo's focus on the interior of the line signifies a commitment especially to the running game. That may seem obvious, but if you look at teams like Carolina, or NYG - these teams run the ball extraordinarily well, and they can run at will. It doesn't usually matter if the other team sees it coming or not.

I believe our team wants to be able to do the same thing - run at will against anyone, which will in turn set up the pass for Edwards. Edwards has shown the ability to take over a game, but not consistently. I think they want to provide him with the weapons, but put as little pressure on him as possible with a dominant running game. They also want to be able to run against 3 down linemen when our 3-4 opponents drop 8 into coverage to stop Edwards (like they did last year, starting with Miami).

[Ed]

Great report Ingtar!

A couple things jumped out at me. I'm glad you mentioned Jevon Kearse because I think a lot of people are making too big a deal out of Maybins weight, but a lot of good DE's actually play at less then 250 and Kearse was the first guy that came to mind. When Gregg Williams was here, he said Kearse never weighed more then 245 during the season. Plus Maybin is only 21. It's not like he won't naturally fill out a little more too.

I also loved the Harris pick. I have to admitt that I'm not a big college football fan, but I actually watched a fair amount of Big 12 games this year and one of the the few guys that always stuck out to me was Harris. I love the way he plays and I was surprised to learn he ran such a slow 40 time at the combine because he didn't seem slow to me in games. So I hope he can learn the OLB position quickly because I think he could be a real playmaker and a fun player to have on the team. He comes from a big time program and made a lot of plays against some pretty good offenses. My only concern is that we don't make the playoffs this year, our coaching staff gets fired, so we start over with some new scheme and he no longer fits anywhere.

Good points on our OL too. We've been soft for too long. So it would be nice to see us develop some real attitude and be able to push defenses around, especially later in the year when it's cold and windy.

Sounds like Byrd could end up being a good pick too. I like what you had to say because that was definitely a WTF immediate reaction when I saw his name come up.

So Ingtar, do you like any of our UDFA's so far? And what would you think if we picked up Levi Jones to play LT? I actually feel pretty good about moving Walker there.

[Captain gameboy]

Ing. How much time are you still able to spend evaluating college players?

I thought you had a bit of a career change.

Just wondering.

I greatly enjoy your contributions here.

[Ingtar33]

Ing. How much time are you still able to spend evaluating college players?

I thought you had a bit of a career change.

Just wondering.

I greatly enjoy your contributions here.

not much really... so my evaluation isn't as good as it was sadly

we'll see how it turns out. some of those player's i've seen personally in games. others are mostly word of mouth... i called some friends still in the front offices about a few of the picks. to see what the word was.

in short my guess is as good as yours