How would you guys feel about Mike Vick?

[Mahdi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pkq3O_TDhU


If he is eligible for the 2009 season I would be all over it. Not only would the prospects of Vick to Owens as seen in the video be interesting but when the weather gets tough to throw in when November and December roll around, having a QB like Vick as a backup to Trent would be amazing. Not to mention all the wildcat formations we could use with Vick, Jackson, Owens and Evans.

Vick has paid his debt to society IMO.

[THATHURMANATOR]

If he helped us win I am for it.

[kelly2reed4six]

The day Michael Vick wears a bills uniform is the day I never watch another bills game again in my life! He is a piece of ***** loser who shouldn't play football for another team ever!

[Jan Reimers]

Not just no, but F****** NO. He is a scumbag, low life jerk. That would be about the only thing that would ever end my being a Bills fan. If you have dogs like I do, you can never forgive or forget what he did to these absolutely wonderful creatures.

Screw Mike Vick. I hope he rots in Hell.

[Canadian'eh!]

Pass.

He was terribly overrated to begin with. A scatback who was running the wildcat for the most part. Not a passer, never improved as one.

Then he murdered and tortured dogs for entertainment.

I think I'll pass on him. He hasn't paid any debt in my eyes.

[Mitchell55]

He deserves a 2nd chance, but ill pass based on what we need.

[The Spaz]

**** no!!!!:monkeyp:

[Jan Reimers]

He deserves a 2nd chance, but ill pass based on what we need.
He deserves a long, slow, horrible death, and then to rot in Hell for eternity.

[Stewie]

I don't know if he deserves another shot, but what position would we want him to play? Quarterback or running back are it, and I want him at neither based on our roster.

[Mahdi]

Wow... there are ppl who have killed human beings who have received forgiveness.

[Jan Reimers]

Do any of you people who want to give him a chance, have dogs? Do you realize the pain and torture and cruel death he imposed on them? He literally makes me sick.

[Mahdi]

I don't know if he deserves another shot, but what position would we want him to play? Quarterback or running back are it, and I want him at neither based on our roster.
I would want him as a QB that runs. There will be games when the weather prevents Trent from throwing.

Having a player like Vick that you can let loose is an advantage. And when the weather is good you use him in 10 - 12 plays in a slash role.

[Jan Reimers]

Wow... there are ppl who have killed human beings who have received forgiveness.
Depends on who was killed, and the circumstances. There is no forgiveness for killing innocent, helpless animals.

[Michael82]

Not just no. HELL NO! I hate that piece of **** and hope that he rots in hell. I hope Goodell is smart enough to suspend him for one more season and I will be pissed off if Buffalo ever signed him. I hate him with a passion!

[sdbillsfan2]

There is no forgiveness for killing innocent, helpless animals.



Especially for entertainment and financial gain ! yeah. he's the kind of guy you want living on your street . NOT!

[TheMan08]

He payed his penalty. You people are crazy.

Stop going duck hunting for sport. Stop killing deers for sport. Stop fishing for sport.

What he did was absolutely wrong. He deserved the jail he got. Unlike Ray Lewis who got away with murder of a Human and not only plays the game but is looked upon as a God. He should be allowed a return. Nobody says he deserves to be hugged and welcomed, he deseves a second chance.

[casdhf]

I'm sure someone would assassinate him before he could even take a step off the plane.

[kid mickey]

He deserves a long, slow, horrible death, and then to rot in Hell for eternity.

That is going overboard don't you think? I'm not saying what he did was right, but if he is truly sorry for what he has done, maybe Goodell should give him another shot in the NFL. I voted no for him to come to Buffalo, but that is because I don't think he is all that great of a player. I think he should be a receiver. He should be playing a Reggie Bush type role in an offense, should be placed in a split back formation and taking draws and running routes. He would fit well in a wildcat. To bad Miami seems to be the only team that runs it. Somebody like Vikings might take a shot at him. Who knows.

[Jan Reimers]

He payed his penalty. You people are crazy.

Stop going duck hunting for sport. Stop killing deers for sport. Stop fishing for sport.

What he did was absolutely wrong. He deserved the jail he got. Unlike Ray Lewis who got away with murder of a Human and not only plays the game but is looked upon as a God. He should be allowed a return. Nobody says he deserves to be hugged and welcomed, he deseves a second chance.
Hunters and fishermen (I do not do either one) are not engaged in an illegal activity where animals are abused, starved and forced to fight, often to the death, and then forced to suffer pain, neglect and inhumane treatment. And what Ray Lewis did or didn't do has no bearing here.

Vick consciously and uncaringly maimed, tortured and killed helpless animals. If you want to forgive him, fine. As a longtime dog owner, I can't. And if he were to be signed by the Bills, I would end my 50 years of being a fan. Immediately.

[elltrain22]

I am NOT in favor of any team that signs that dog killer. Vick is total scum, and I hope he suffers much, much more for his careless, thoughtless, and cruel acts.

[elltrain22]

Not just no, but F****** NO. He is a scumbag, low life jerk. That would be about the only thing that would ever end my being a Bills fan. If you have dogs like I do, you can never forgive or forget what he did to these absolutely wonderful creatures.

Screw Mike Vick. I hope he rots in Hell.


Exactly my sentiments. Well said.

[Jan Reimers]

That is going overboard don't you think?

No. The conscious and willful maiming, torturing and killing of innocent animals is about the worst thing a human being can do. The fact that Vick could do such a thing with no remorse, no feeling and no compassion tells me he cannot be truly rehabilitated.

Rotting in Hell is too good for him.

[FlyingDutchman]

He deserves a long, slow, horrible death, and then to rot in Hell for eternity.

screw a slow death. he should be put into a ring, and forced to fight to the death for entertainment, and if he loses or is injured, he should be put down

[elltrain22]

I'd like to see a pack of wild dogs attack him.

[Jan Reimers]

screw a slow death. he should be put into a ring, and forced to fight to the death for entertainment, and if he loses or is injured, he should be put down
Great idea. I'd love to watch.

[kid mickey]

Wow, now you guys are talking about pitting human beings against each other to kill each other. That is worse. The worst thing you can do is kill another human being, not kill a dog. I'm not saying what he did was right, but dog fighting is like boxing in a sense. Your going out their to hurt somebody. Granted the animals may not initially want to do it, but once it's started its started. It is a poor way to treat animals, but that is just it. They are just animals. I know if an animal was trying to attack me I would probably try to kill it, that is if could do some serious damage to me. I wouldn't try to kill a person that was trying to do serious damage to me, I would obviously try to beat the **** out of that person, but I wouldn't be trying to kill him.

[Mr. Pink]

Hunters and fishermen (I do not do either one) are not engaged in an illegal activity where animals are abused, starved and forced to fight, often to the death, and then forced to suffer pain, neglect and inhumane treatment. And what Ray Lewis did or didn't do has no bearing here.

Vick consciously and uncaringly maimed, tortured and killed helpless animals. If you want to forgive him, fine. As a longtime dog owner, I can't. And if he were to be signed by the Bills, I would end my 50 years of being a fan. Immediately.


Farmers consciously and uncaringly maim, torture and kill helpless animals.

We as consumers go to the store or restaurant to buy what's left of these said animals.

What's the difference?

That always brings me to the animal rights activists strongest point on Tuna...Don't eat the tuna where dolphins get stuck in the nets...why? Because apparently the tuna aren't special enough. IE Cute.

Dude's paid his debt to society and deserves a second chance, whether it be here or another NFL team. Professional sports have allowed people to come back who have done far worse.

[Jan Reimers]

The hunter and farmer analogies are pathetic and totally disingenuous. If you can't see the difference, I won't waste my time explaining it.

I think only people who love their dogs can really understand the depth of Vick's evil and depravity.

[Mr. Pink]

The hunter and farmer analogies are pathetic and totally disingenuous. If you can't see the difference, I won't waste my time explaining it.

I think only people who love their dogs can really understand the depth of Vick's evil and depravity.


What's the difference? Outside of perception.

People of the hindu faith revere cows, we line them, fatten em and slaughter em.

People in China eat dogs...we have them as family pets.

How are the hunter and farmer analogies pathetic? A dog, cat, cow, pig, deer etc...are all living breathing things that have emotion and feelings.

[trapezeus]

i don't want vick on the grounds that he isn't a good qb and that 2 years away from football is killer. have you ever stopped doing anything for 2 years and then tried it again? you lose a lot of skill that your practice had built up.

i don't condone his dog fighting, but he's paid his price. for god sakes we are letting marshawn back on the team for running over a lady and for gun and drug charges. who has been worse to society? we let hargrove back after fighting cops and drugs.

what is vick held to such a higher standard?

[djjimkelly]

why not maybe he can take job from trent lol and he is a very elite athlete plus he could open a north tonawanda fight club lol.

[Jan Reimers]

You really don't know the difference between Vick's cruelty and sadism, and what a normal farmer or hunter (not the the criminal kinds that often run afoul of the law for neglect, abuse, cruelty or other hideous acts) do?

I really feel sorry for you.

[mikemac2001]

do you know he removed a dogs jaw so other dogs could practice on it and wouldnt bite back

mad dog says no to mike vick

[Mr. Pink]

You really don't know the difference between Vick's cruelty and sadism, and what a normal farmer or hunter (not the the criminal kinds that often run afoul of the law for neglect, abuse, cruelty or other hideous acts) do?

I really feel sorry for you.


Have you ever seen a slaughterhouse? They're not the most sanitary places nor are the animals treated "well."

Again, it's all based on perception.

It's amusing how it's alright to let Marshawn get more chances but not Vick. As trap stated all Marshawn did was try to run over some lady.

Good to see though that there are people in this thread who value the life of a pet, which last I checked is basically a possession, over another human being.

[Dujek]

No. Simply because Vick can't hit the side of a barn from 5 yards away with his passes. Terrible football brain, terrible mechanics and the only thing that saved him was the fact that teams are scared of him breaking off a big run.

Vick to Buffalo is just about the dumbest idea I've ever heard.

[Dujek]

i don't want vick on the grounds that he isn't a good qb and that 2 years away from football is killer. have you ever stopped doing anything for 2 years and then tried it again? you lose a lot of skill that your practice had built up.

i don't condone his dog fighting, but he's paid his price. for god sakes we are letting marshawn back on the team for running over a lady and for gun and drug charges. who has been worse to society? we let hargrove back after fighting cops and drugs.

what is vick held to such a higher standard?

Agree completely. Vick has completed his sentence, and if a team is stupid enough to take him on, then they should be allowed to. But he was **** to start with and has hardly improved while in prison, so I don't see why any team would even think about taking him.

[elltrain22]

Wow, now you guys are talking about pitting human beings against each other to kill each other. That is worse. The worst thing you can do is kill another human being, not kill a dog. I'm not saying what he did was right, but dog fighting is like boxing in a sense. Your going out their to hurt somebody. Granted the animals may not initially want to do it, but once it's started its started. It is a poor way to treat animals, but that is just it. They are just animals. I know if an animal was trying to attack me I would probably try to kill it, that is if could do some serious damage to me. I wouldn't try to kill a person that was trying to do serious damage to me, I would obviously try to beat the **** out of that person, but I wouldn't be trying to kill him.

Dogs are NOT just animals. They are best friends. They lick your face, and love you when no one or nothing else will. Any dog, just like a person, that is cared for and loved is kind at heart, and has very much sentimental value. All of us (me included) that are saying we want to see bodily harm to Vick are, in a sense, morally wrong. Eventhough most of us that say this, most of us probably are not serious about this, but we are serious w/ our malcontent for this scumbag. To say that what Vick did was a poor way to treat animals, IMO, is a gross understatement; to doglovers/or not.

[cocamide]

Not just no, but F****** NO. He is a scumbag, low life jerk. That would be about the only thing that would ever end my being a Bills fan. If you have dogs like I do, you can never forgive or forget what he did to these absolutely wonderful creatures.

Screw Mike Vick. I hope he rots in Hell.

Would you be able to cast the first stone?

[Kenny]

wow, -with a league full of thugs, -guys who assault women, carry guns, drunk drivers, murderers, etc... A guy who killed animals gets the harshest response?

Interesting to see where our priorities are.

[Mad Bomber]

NFW.

[Cntrygal]

No.

[generalmills]

I believe he will be working under Mark Cuban or unfortunately on this side of the border (Oski Wee Wee eh Hammer?)

[Owen DeBoard]

No. Simply because Vick can't hit the side of a barn from 5 yards away with his passes. Terrible football brain, terrible mechanics and the only thing that saved him was the fact that teams are scared of him breaking off a big run.

Vick to Buffalo is just about the dumbest idea I've ever heard.
Excellent post.:bf1:

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Have you ever seen a slaughterhouse? They're not the most sanitary places nor are the animals treated "well."

Again, it's all based on perception.

It's amusing how it's alright to let Marshawn get more chances but not Vick. As trap stated all Marshawn did was try to run over some lady.

Good to see though that there are people in this thread who value the life of a pet, which last I checked is basically a possession, over another human being.

excellent post, man. We use Ray Lewis as an example, but the one i would use is OJ. There is genuine outrage over what he did, but the vitriole that I hear about Vick seems to be worse than what I hear about OJ. I don't get, and will never understand why so many of us Americans love dogs more than people. Don't get me wrong, what Michael Vick did was gross, illegal and despicable, but there are worse things, believe it or not.

[BillsWin]

The day that ***** becomes a buffalo bill is the day I stop BILLieving.

[TheBrownBear]

I say bring him in. At least we'll get another flex schedule game at prime time.

[justasportsfan]

no thanks. I want a gun slinger like Kelly or Peyton . We already have a very deep rb stable. I want someone who can get our wr's the ball.

[OpIv37]

without reading through this whole thread, hell no.

Mike Vick is twice the athlete Trent Edwards is but he has about the quarter of the brain. He simply does not understand football, at least not well enough to play QB. And he's a piece of **** human being.

Signing him would bring ZERO benefit to this team.

[Kenny]

excellent post, man. We use Ray Lewis as an example, but the one i would use is OJ. There is genuine outrage over what he did, but the vitriole that I hear about Vick seems to be worse than what I hear about OJ. I don't get, and will never understand why so many of us Americans love dogs more than people. Don't get me wrong, what Michael Vick did was gross, illegal and despicable, but there are worse things, believe it or not.

Dont forget Leonard Little and Dante Stallworth. Kill an actual human being and 5 minutes later everyone forgets. But kill a dog, and you're the next Hitler.

I dont condone what Vick did, but as was mentioned, there have been much much worse done.

[cocamide]

Dont forget Leonard Little and Dante Stallworth. Kill an actual human being and 5 minutes later everyone forgets. But kill a dog, and you're the next Hitler.

I dont condone what Vick did, but as was mentioned, there have been much much worse done.

My thoughts exactly.

[rcd333]

PETA would give ralph a heart attack

[BillsWin]

Dont forget Leonard Little and Dante Stallworth. Kill an actual human being and 5 minutes later everyone forgets. But kill a dog, and you're the next Hitler.

I dont condone what Vick did, but as was mentioned, there have been much much worse done.


Who forgot? The media maybe. They tend to hush certain things and shout others out loud. I haven't forgotten, and it is sad because I know Stallworth is very regretful about what hes done and is probably paying an even bigger price individually than some of us can possibly imagine.

I dont condone what either of those two did, and I am always disgusted by people who drink then get behind the wheel. and hit and runs are no laughing matter.

The fact is that they werent setting out to physically cause harm to anyone.

Vick took it into his own personal hands to do something evil. He knew exactly what he was doing and kept doing it. He is scum.

The others did a horrible thing, but I believe that God forgives those who sin but feel true remorse and pain for what theyve done. Im not as familiar with the Little case, so I dont know what happened exactly.

[!Papacrunk!]

:pray:

[TheMan08]

As bad as Vick is brain wise. He destroyed Buffalo last time he played us. We could not stop him from running all over us. We had more talent yet due to HIM alone... Atl. beat us. That Atl team the year prior w/o Vick had like 3 wins.

[TheMan08]

He tossed 2 TDs and ran for 64 yds vs us

[FlyingDutchman]

cant believe some people are using cultural relativism as an excuse for what vick did....and as far stallworth..he made a dumb ass move, its not like he kicked into reverse and started running over the guy...vick is a sociopath

[SABURZFAN]

I'd like to see a pack of wild dogs attack him.


i would like to see that after he's been marinating in au jus for 3 straight days.



i say no to Vick because i'm not about to engage in another QB battle on here.

[Lexwhat]

Farmers consciously and uncaringly maim, torture and kill helpless animals.

We as consumers go to the store or restaurant to buy what's left of these said animals.

What's the difference?

That always brings me to the animal rights activists strongest point on Tuna...Don't eat the tuna where dolphins get stuck in the nets...why? Because apparently the tuna aren't special enough. IE Cute.


What's the difference? Outside of perception.

People of the hindu faith revere cows, we line them, fatten em and slaughter em.

People in China eat dogs...we have them as family pets.

How are the hunter and farmer analogies pathetic? A dog, cat, cow, pig, deer etc...are all living breathing things that have emotion and feelings.

You hit the nail on the head here! I have seen a slaughterhouse, and it's one of the most disturbing things I've ever witnessed. I've also been involved in scientific research involving animals (National Institutes of Health).

The "cuteness factor" you alluded to is 100% true. It's all social perception. If someone wants to be consistent, he/she must consider all animals as equal.

Regardless, what Vick did was sick and twisted, and I don't deny that. He was totally wrong and deserved to go to jail. But that doesn't take away from the fact that most Americans will never see the crime for what it is.

[LtFinFan66]

Would you be able to cast the first stone?when it comes to my having never harmed an animal....damn straight!! I would rock his punk ass with a 20 pound boulder

[LtFinFan66]

Dont forget Leonard Little and Dante Stallworth. Kill an actual human being and 5 minutes later everyone forgets. But kill a dog, and you're the next Hitler.

I dont condone what Vick did, but as was mentioned, there have been much much worse done.are we discussing these guys coming back into the NFL???? Didn't think so. Dumb example

[SABURZFAN]

when it comes to my having never harmed an animal....damn straight!! I would rock his punk ass with a 20 pound boulder



that would be awesome.

[LtFinFan66]

oh, and I voted yes since I am a Fin fan:snicker:

[Lexwhat]

The others did a horrible thing, but I believe that God forgives those who sin but feel true remorse and pain for what theyve done. Im not as familiar with the Little case, so I dont know what happened exactly.

Leonard Little was drunk driving and he got into an accident and killed a woman (a wife and mother). He received about 3 months of jail time and community service.

A few years later, he was arrested for drunk driving again. The case was eventually thrown out. My guess is he had a good lawyer.


Anyways, as far as remorse goes, only Vick himself knows. I hope to God he learned from his disgusting behavior, but I am not going to know how much he learned and neither will anyone else.

If we are true to God, we will let Him decide Vick's fate.

[Lexwhat]

are we discussing these guys coming back into the NFL???? Didn't think so. Dumb example

Huh?

Leonard Little has played every single season for the past 10 years.

[LtFinFan66]

Huh?

Leonard Little has played every single season for the past 10 years.Ok, who and when did he kill someone then? Never heard this before

[LtFinFan66]

Ok, who and when did he kill someone then? Never heard this beforenevermind...I looked it up. That falls on the justice system there. 90 days in jail....are you kidding me

[yordad]

The Bills would be a contender immediately with the old Michael Vick. Interesting dilemma.

[Lexwhat]

nevermind...I looked it up. That falls on the justice system there. 90 days in jail....are you kidding me


Yes sir.

Little showed no remorse. He was arrested for drunk driving AGAIN a few years later (the case got thrown out and he was only charged with SPEEDING).

Unreal. :ill:

[Mahdi]

No. Simply because Vick can't hit the side of a barn from 5 yards away with his passes. Terrible football brain, terrible mechanics and the only thing that saved him was the fact that teams are scared of him breaking off a big run.

Vick to Buffalo is just about the dumbest idea I've ever heard.
From a football standpoint its not dumb at all. If you have a QB back there who can run like Barry Sanders and an NFL arm (not saying an amazing arm) he will create problems for your defense.

We could use Vick in a variety of ways, there's nothing dumb about it. Pretty sure he had a ton of success in the NFL.

[ddaryl]

I find Vick to be dispicable, he would be the one player who would keep me from supporitng Bills football.

I have more sympathy for steroid users, weapons posession and drug users then I could ever have for what he allowed to happen to those Dogs....

If Vick does get signed by an NFL team... I honestly hope something really bad happens to him

[Jan Reimers]

Yes sir.

Little showed no remorse. He was arrested for drunk driving AGAIN a few years later (the case got thrown out and he was only charged with SPEEDING).

Unreal. :ill:
What Leonard Little did was truly despicable. He should have been thrown in jail and the key thrown away.

But the results of his actions, while worse than Vick's, don't somehow make Vick's behavior any less heinous. Vick showed he was a heartless, remorseless human being who enjoyed inflicting pain, cruelty and suffering on defenseless animals.

It can at least be argued that the results of Little's actions were unintentional. Vick, on the other hand, purposely and intentionally acted to maim, torture and kill innocent living creatures.

[Dr. Who]

I don't think most of those who want Vick are spiritually advanced and compassionate. They are utilitarians who excuse the brutally callous for the prospect of a more competitive team. That's not as disgusting as Mike Vick, but its disgusting enough.

[Mahdi]

I don't think most of those who want Vick are spiritually advanced and compassionate. They are utilitarians who excuse the brutally callous for the prospect of a more competitive team. That's not as disgusting as Mike Vick, but its disgusting enough.
You could also argue that those who would accept Vick are more spiritually advanced than those who dont. Some ppls spirituality is what allows them to forgive and allow ppl the opportunity to redeem themselves and become better human beings.

[Kenny]

are we discussing these guys coming back into the NFL???? Didn't think so. Dumb example

Im sorry... Didnt know Leonard Little, Ray Lewis, etc... were banned from coming back in the NFL.

And I guess we're just of different opinions then. While what Vick did was gross and despicable, -at the end of the day you have to measure humans or animals?
I dont give a rats ass if Dante, Ray, or Leonard Little didnt 'mean' to kill their victims, the end result was the same... death.
God forbid, -but would you feel any better if a lost one was killed by a drunk driver, or by someone else's stupididty? Sure they might not have meant to do it, -but I dont think it would really matter to me.

While what Vick did was wrong, -I hope you're also against bull fighting, **** fighting, etc...

[Jan Reimers]

What made Vick's crimes so terrible is that he committed them wilfully, knowingly and intentionally. There was nothing accidental about them. Of course killing a human is worse than killing an animal, but that doesn't absolve Vick of his absolutely horrendous actions.

He will probably be allowed back into the league. I personally don't want him on the Bills, nor do I want Little or Lewis. To me, there are people of such low character that it totally cancels out their great athletic ability and what they might do for my team.

[realdealryan]

You could also argue that those who would accept Vick are more spiritually advanced than those who dont. Some ppls spirituality is what allows them to forgive and allow ppl the opportunity to redeem themselves and become better human beings.

And some people also cite the same "spirituality" when they bomb, kill, etc....another forum, another time.



While what Vick did was wrong, -I hope you're also against bull fighting, **** fighting, etc...

Um, yeah. Who is against dog fighting but thinks bull fighting and cokc* fighting are okay? These are just a few of the many ridiculous holdovers from another time - like parts of our Constitution, many laws and religions, etc.

[TheMan08]

Just Win Baby! I could careless about what you did Criminally. Let the law and system handle it. If you are cleared and did your time. I DON"T CARE AT ALL. ZERO.

I don't want Angels. I want the Best guys, regardless of rapsheet. They got the okay from justice system to work.

[Mahdi]

What made Vick's crimes so terrible is that he committed them wilfully, knowingly and intentionally. There was nothing accidental about them. Of course killing a human is worse than killing an animal, but that doesn't absolve Vick of his absolutely horrendous actions.

He will probably be allowed back into the league. I personally don't want him on the Bills, nor do I want Little or Lewis. To me, there are people of such low character that it totally cancels out their great athletic ability and what they might do for my team.
This is what makes me so mad about the double standards.

People in North America are so lenient when it comes to drunk driving its silly.

16000 people were killed in 2006 alone as a result of drunk driving. So people who make the argument, "oh it was an accident, it wasn't willfully done," SORRY that doesn't fly in my books.

If you get drunk and get behind the wheel you are WILLFULLY endangering the lives of HUMANS. In my book that is worse than what Vick did.

And just in case 16 000 ppl getting killed in 2006 didn't hit home enough, 1,794 were children under the age of 14.

[TheMan08]

This is what makes me so mad about the double standards.

People in North America are so lenient when it comes to drunk driving its silly.

16000 people were killed in 2006 alone as a result of drunk driving. So people who make the argument, "oh it was an accident, it wasn't willfully done," SORRY that doesn't fly in my books.

If you get drunk and get behind the wheel you are WILLFULLY endangering the lives of HUMANS. In my book that is worse than what Vick did.

And just in case 16 000 ppl getting killed in 2006 didn't hit home enough, 1,794 were children under the age of 14.

I agree with you. Shamefully I acknowledge 2 years ago I got a DWI. No accident. But i was an idiot and i deserved all the penalties and shame I brought on myself. Luckily for me, friends and family supported me and I got through it. I did my time. I am back on my feet. But I never drank again after this experience. It changed my life. I knew what I was doing. The alcohol just made me think I"M OK, I'll be fine. BUT I KNEW WHAT I WAS DOING. I could have killed someone.

I made it a goal to be a better person and grow from it. I was happy I got a 2nd chance from everyone around me including a new job. Drinking and Driving is a huge problem in our nation.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Farmers consciously and uncaringly maim, torture and kill helpless animals.

We as consumers go to the store or restaurant to buy what's left of these said animals.

What's the difference?

That always brings me to the animal rights activists strongest point on Tuna...Don't eat the tuna where dolphins get stuck in the nets...why? Because apparently the tuna aren't special enough. IE Cute.

Dude's paid his debt to society and deserves a second chance, whether it be here or another NFL team. Professional sports have allowed people to come back who have done far worse.
:bf1:

[yordad]

I don't think most of those who want Vick are spiritually advanced and compassionate. They are utilitarians who excuse the brutally callous for the prospect of a more competitive team. That's not as disgusting as Mike Vick, but its disgusting enough.Or maybe they are "spiritually advanced and compassionate" enough to forgive, or give a second chance. :idunno:

[psubills62]

Depends on who was killed, and the circumstances. There is no forgiveness for killing innocent, helpless animals.

Honestly Jan, I usually agree with a lot of the things you say. But this post blows my mind. You'd be fine forgiving people who kill other people, but there is NO forgiveness for killing innocent, helpless animals? And for the record, I grew up with dogs and I absolutely love them.

Wow...

[psubills62]

This is what makes me so mad about the double standards.

People in North America are so lenient when it comes to drunk driving its silly.

16000 people were killed in 2006 alone as a result of drunk driving. So people who make the argument, "oh it was an accident, it wasn't willfully done," SORRY that doesn't fly in my books.

If you get drunk and get behind the wheel you are WILLFULLY endangering the lives of HUMANS. In my book that is worse than what Vick did.

And just in case 16 000 ppl getting killed in 2006 didn't hit home enough, 1,794 were children under the age of 14.

Yeah, it's like after how many years of drunk drivers killing people, no one understands the consequences? Whether it was willful or not, they have to pay the price for what they've done.

But the thing is, even if a person kills another human being, they can still be forgiven. Same with someone who kills dogs.

Who are any of us to judge whether or not Vick should rot in hell? As a fellow human being, I have made my own mistakes. Maybe they aren't looked upon as being as grievous as what Vick did, but they are still mistakes and sins that I regret and that I will pay for. And as a human being who has made mistakes, I realize that people sometimes need wake-up calls (like being put in jail) to realize what terrible things they have done. I just don't understand the view that "no matter what, I hope he rots in hell." Who are we to say if he should be forgiven or not? Maybe he'll go back to a similar lifestyle. But then again, maybe he actually regrets his mistakes. Do I think that simply being regretful means all should be hunky-dorey? No, I think he should do some work with the SPCA, etc. and work on helping dogs.

Yeah, maybe none of you have killed innocent, helpless animals. But come on - like that's the ONLY evil in the world?

To LtFinFan: When Jesus said "may he without sin cast the first stone," he wasn't talking about the specific sin of the woman. So no, it's not just limited to "well I haven't killed innocent animals, so yeah I'd kill him with a boulder."

[justasportsfan]

whats Pacman Jones doing these days? Might as well bring him in and we can call ourselves the buffalo Cowboys.

[Lexwhat]

What Leonard Little did was truly despicable. He should have been thrown in jail and the key thrown away.

But the results of his actions, while worse than Vick's, don't somehow make Vick's behavior any less heinous. Vick showed he was a heartless, remorseless human being who enjoyed inflicting pain, cruelty and suffering on defenseless animals.

It can at least be argued that the results of Little's actions were unintentional. Vick, on the other hand, purposely and intentionally acted to maim, torture and kill innocent living creatures.

You can certainly argue "motives," but then you have to be consistent. Farmers maim, torture, and kill innocent animals every day for financial incentive. We support those farmers by buying their product. Please don't say that humans "need" to eat meat to survive. This is untrue.

But anyways, more heinous or less heinous is all besides the point. I'm not trying to directly compare the crimes committed by Little or Vick. Both were despicable. I'm comparing people's REACTIONS to the said crimes.

As a former dog owner, I am disgusted by what Vick did. But, IMHO, he doesn't deserve to "rot in hell" any more than 1000s of other people in this world that commit similar crimes and get a free pass in our society.

[Jan Reimers]

Honestly Jan, I usually agree with a lot of the things you say. But this post blows my mind. You'd be fine forgiving people who kill other people, but there is NO forgiveness for killing innocent, helpless animals? And for the record, I grew up with dogs and I absolutely love them.

Wow...
I'd forgive a father for killing the murderer of his child. I'd forgive the killer of a child molester. I'd even forgive someone who was a good person, but made one stupid mistake that lead to someone's death.

But I will not forgive the wanton, intentional and cavalier abuse, torture, and killing of innocent animals. I'm sorry if that blows your mind, but it's my honest feeling.

[psubills62]

I'd forgive a father for killing the murderer of his child. I'd forgive the killer of a child molester. I'd even forgive someone who was a good person, but made one stupid mistake that lead to someone's death.

But I will not forgive the wanton, intentional and cavalier abuse, torture, and killing of innocent animals. I'm sorry if that blows your mind, but it's my honest feeling.

This is the problem. The murderer and child molester certainly did evil deeds, but the people who kill them are then just as evil. Why is killing a child any different from killing an adult? What if the child was going to grow up to become someone who sells women as sex slaves?

And who are we to judge those people? I've done wrong things in my life, does that mean I deserve to be murdered?

The deed doesn't depend on how evil the person you're killing is. Murder is murder. If I go out and kill a child molester, that is just as bad as someone who goes out and kills a pastor. And both killers would pay the price. The death of a person, no matter how evil that person is, is still a terrible thing. Every person deserves a chance at forgiveness. Why bother having psychologists and rehab programs if that isn't the case?

I just don't understand what gives people the right to be judge and jury and to decide whether or not someone deserves forgiveness when you only know what the media tells you.

[Dr. Lecter]

Regardless of what he did, he was never a very good Quarterback. And whether or not he still has his athletic ability is a question mark.

That, combined with what he did, makes it an easy decision.

[Marvelous]

I would rather avoid any bad character players.
-It's a FACT that MIke Vick is unique. And he TOASTED the Bills a couple years ago when we played him...But i say thee nay!!

NO

[Saratoga Slim]

He payed his penalty. You people are crazy.

Stop going duck hunting for sport. Stop killing deers for sport. Stop fishing for sport.

What he did was absolutely wrong. He deserved the jail he got. Unlike Ray Lewis who got away with murder of a Human and not only plays the game but is looked upon as a God. He should be allowed a return. Nobody says he deserves to be hugged and welcomed, he deseves a second chance.

There is no comparison between what Vick was involved with and hunting or fishing. Hunting & Fishing are sports where you make the animal dead fast. Dog fighting you're forcing them to endure pain for your pleasure.

Moreover, it wasn't just the dog fighting itself that was so deplorable. It was the fact that Vick repeatedly a) hung, b) drowned, and c) body slammed, dogs that weren't performing well in front of the other dogs as a means of "inspiring" the other dogs. That's just incredibly sick.

He's done his time and he has the right to walk again--no doubt. But that doesn't mean he has a right to rejoin the NFL. Just because you've met your obligations to the criminal justice system doesn't mean the NFL has to employ you again. It's a business, and Goodell makes the decision to reinstate a guy like Vick on a business basis only--Vick has no entitlement to play for the NFL.

I REALLY hope that Goodell decides Vick is bad for business and adds either a ban or a suspension long enough to effectively end his chance at returning.

[Jan Reimers]

I'm sorry, folks. Trying to somehow make what Vick did less evil by comparing him to others doesn't impress me one bit. He is a cold blooded, remorseless abuser and murderer of animals. I simply don't care where his actions rank on your scales of relative morality.

His crimes say everything about him that I need to know. He has no heart and he has no conscience. Do you really think that a relatively short stint in jail and the loss of his fortune are going to change his callous disregard for animals? I'm sure if the whole world weren't watching, he and his buddies woulg go right back to their mindless mutilation and murder. Perhaps God can forgive him, but I can't.

[Lexwhat]

oh, and I voted yes since I am a Fin fan:snicker:

You know, Vick would actually fit best on YOUR team. Mike Vick and the Wildcat? Scares me just thinking about it.

But if I had to predict 3 teams that might take him, I would say:

Raiders, Patriots, 49ers.

[PromoTheRobot]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pkq3O_TDhU


If he is eligible for the 2009 season I would be all over it. Not only would the prospects of Vick to Owens as seen in the video be interesting but when the weather gets tough to throw in when November and December roll around, having a QB like Vick as a backup to Trent would be amazing. Not to mention all the wildcat formations we could use with Vick, Jackson, Owens and Evans.

Vick has paid his debt to society IMO.

Personal issues aside, what would Vick play on the Bills? QB? As much as Vick was a human highlight reel and media darling, he really didn't help Atlanta win much. That's because he was not a very good QB. He was an amazing athlete and media magnet but not much else. Why not look at his record in Atlanta before deciding how "awesome" he'd be in Buffalo.

PTR

[TheMan08]

He did take Atlanta passed GB in a playoff game. And do you remember how bad those Atlanta teams were?

[Jan Reimers]

Personal issues aside, what would Vick play on the Bills? QB? As much as Vick was a human highlight reel and media darling, he really didn't help Atlanta win much. That's because he was not a very good QB. He was an amazing athlete and media magnet but not much else. Why not look at his record in Atlanta before deciding how "awesome" he'd be in Buffalo.

PTR
I agree. Besides being pond scum, he's a lousy QB. His throwing will never improve, and his athleticism and running ability will diminish with age. I like QBs that can get the ball to their receivers. There is no upside with this guy.

[Jan Reimers]

He did take Atlanta passed GB in a playoff game. And do you remember how bad those Atlanta teams were?
Yeah. In large part because of Vick's inconsistency.

[Ingtar33]

Pass.

He was terribly overrated to begin with. A scatback who was running the wildcat for the most part. Not a passer, never improved as one.

Then he murdered and tortured dogs for entertainment.

I think I'll pass on him. He hasn't paid any debt in my eyes.


bingo

[Mahdi]

Personal issues aside, what would Vick play on the Bills? QB? As much as Vick was a human highlight reel and media darling, he really didn't help Atlanta win much. That's because he was not a very good QB. He was an amazing athlete and media magnet but not much else. Why not look at his record in Atlanta before deciding how "awesome" he'd be in Buffalo.

PTR
Pretty sure Vick took his team to the playoffs, beat Green Bay on the frozen tundra and went to the NFC Championship game.

Vick would be a QB for us. We can put him in for 2 or 3 series a game and let him do his thing.

Do you realize how much game planning teams would have to do to get ready for the Bills offense.

Having to prepare for 2 completely different QBs.

He would also be useful on a day like the last game of the season last year against the Pats. Trent couldn't complete a single pass in that weather. Having a guy like Vick that can do what he does would be invaluable in those types of games.

[Jan Reimers]

Pretty sure Vick took his team to the playoffs, beat Green Bay on the frozen tundra and went to the NFC Championship game.

Vick would be a QB for us. We can put him in for 2 or 3 series a game and let him do his thing.

Do you realize how much game planning teams would have to do to get ready for the Bills offense.

Having to prepare for 2 completely different QBs.

He would also be useful on a day like the last game of the season last year against the Pats. Trent couldn't complete a single pass in that weather. Having a guy like Vick that can do what he does would be invaluable in those types of games.
If he's only going to play 2 or 3 series a game, we can pay him in dog biscuits and get him a nice crate at the SPCA.

I don't want this loser anywhere near the Bills.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Honestly Jan, I usually agree with a lot of the things you say. But this post blows my mind. You'd be fine forgiving people who kill other people, but there is NO forgiveness for killing innocent, helpless animals? And for the record, I grew up with dogs and I absolutely love them.

Wow...
I could easily forgive someone for killing a dog a hell of a lot faster than killing a human WTF!

[Jan Reimers]

I could easily forgive someone for killing a dog a hell of a lot faster than killing a human WTF!
I would rather see 100 baby rapers murdered in cold blood than 1 dog abused and killed.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I would rather see 100 baby rapers murdered in cold blood than 1 dog abused and killed.
Well now you are turning the tables.

Its like you could say I would rather see 100 baby rapers murdered than 100 babies.

[Jan Reimers]

Well now you are turning the tables.

Its like you could say I would rather see 100 baby rapers murdered than 100 babies.
Me, too. But I was simply trying to make a point that some very evil people deserve to die, while a helpless dog never does.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Me, too. But I was simply trying to make a point that some very evil people deserve to die, while a helpless dog never does.
Sure I can agree with this part of course.

[ddaryl]

I could easily forgive someone for killing a dog a hell of a lot faster than killing a human WTF!

I couldn't forgive either unless it was pure self defense.

but to raise dogs, and make them killers only to profit from it as sport is an extreme that is unforgiveable.

the same with **** fighting and cat juggling :trance:

[Saratoga Slim]

Yeah, it's like after how many years of drunk drivers killing people, no one understands the consequences? Whether it was willful or not, they have to pay the price for what they've done.

But the thing is, even if a person kills another human being, they can still be forgiven. Same with someone who kills dogs.

Who are any of us to judge whether or not Vick should rot in hell? As a fellow human being, I have made my own mistakes. Maybe they aren't looked upon as being as grievous as what Vick did, but they are still mistakes and sins that I regret and that I will pay for. And as a human being who has made mistakes, I realize that people sometimes need wake-up calls (like being put in jail) to realize what terrible things they have done. I just don't understand the view that "no matter what, I hope he rots in hell." Who are we to say if he should be forgiven or not? Maybe he'll go back to a similar lifestyle. But then again, maybe he actually regrets his mistakes. Do I think that simply being regretful means all should be hunky-dorey? No, I think he should do some work with the SPCA, etc. and work on helping dogs.

Yeah, maybe none of you have killed innocent, helpless animals. But come on - like that's the ONLY evil in the world?

To LtFinFan: When Jesus said "may he without sin cast the first stone," he wasn't talking about the specific sin of the woman. So no, it's not just limited to "well I haven't killed innocent animals, so yeah I'd kill him with a boulder."

Sorry, but what the hell is going on here? Is this rickwarrenzone.com? Are we discussing whether God and humanity should forgive Michael Vick? Or are we discussing whether people want to see Vick play for the Buffalo Bills?

I don't think football fans NEED to forgive Michael Vick - whether we do or not makes no difference to anyone. I can forgive a murderer for killing, but still don't want him living next door. Same for Vick. I agree that he's paid his debt and deserves to go on with his life, but that doesn't mean I therefore have to LIKE him and look forward to seeing him in in a Bills uniform. And that's what we're talking about here.

[Jan Reimers]

Sorry, but what the hell is going on here? Is this rickwarrenzone.com? Are we discussing whether God and humanity should forgive Michael Vick? Or are we discussing whether people want to see Vick play for the Buffalo Bills?

I don't think football fans NEED to forgive Michael Vick - whether we do or not makes no difference to anyone. I can forgive a murderer for killing, but still don't want him living next door. Same for Vick. I agree that he's paid his debt and deserves to go on with his life, but that doesn't mean I therefore have to LIKE him and look forward to seeing him in in a Bills uniform. And that's what we're talking about here.
Great post, Slim. I not only dislike him, and would be absolutely appalled to see him in a Bills' uniform, but I also wish him the very worst for the rest of his life. I don't care if he is the best player in the NFL - which he assuredly is not - a franchise, and the people who root for it, have to draw a line. Marshawn, Whitner et. al. are young, rich kids engaging in stupid, foolish behavior. Vick is a bad person. There is a big difference.

[Mr. Pink]

You want to just put it on the merits of him as a player?

I'd take him in a HEARTBEAT...over any QB this franchise has had in the past decade...over 20 other starting QBs in the NFL today.

You want to just slam him because his passing ability isn't that great, fine, his accuracy has always needed work. The dude has a cannon the likes the league hadn't seen since Elway and hasn't seen since.

What you miss out on by judging him solely as a passer is all the intangibles he brings to the table. The athleticism, the making something out of nothing, the running around avoiding people then snapping his wrist and making a throw to the complete opposite side of the field.

This doesn't even mention how poor those Falcon teams were overall when he played, and yet, was still 38-28-1 as a starter. Has thrown more TDs than INTs over his career.

But people can hate on the guy because he isn't the "prototypical" QB or hate on him for extremely bad choices in life...he'd turn any team in the NFL into a competitive, fun to watch team on Sundays...even the Lions.

[Jan Reimers]

The Bills now have an excellent wide receiving corps and a stable of good running backs.

A scatter armed QB with diminishing athletic skills would be much better with the Browns.

[SquishDaFish]

First off I hate that piece of **** for what he did. Now that I got that out of the way let me respond in football sense....

I never want that overhyped wannabe QB that should be a WR or RB on my team period!!! He isnt and was never great. He can run thats it. If the Bills ever even thought about signing him I would leave this team real FN quick

[yordad]

Michael Vick Vs the Buffalo Bills (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=28557&displayPage=tab_gamecenter&season=2005&week=REG3)

[mayotm]

Michael Vick Vs the Buffalo Bills (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=28557&displayPage=tab_gamecenter&season=2005&week=REG3)Do you have a point? Vick had a good game against a crappy Bills team in 2005. So what. There have been a lot of average players over the past 10 years that have been good against the Bills. Doesn't mean I want them on the Bills.

[yordad]

Do you have a point? Vick had a good game against a crappy Bills team in 2005. So what. There have been a lot of average players over the past 10 years that have been good against the Bills. Doesn't mean I want them on the Bills.Basically I remember that game. He was bad ass. He owned the Bills. He can own a game. A lot of what he does doesn't show up in stats. I'm not sure there is a stat for juking someone our of their cleats. Or dodging a tackler and out-running another, while rolling out to rifle a 7 yard pass.

Then again, my "wife" would immediately take less interest. So I would lose a game buddy.

Anyways, dude didn't kill a friggin baby. In some cultures it is acceptable. Heck, Mexco has ****, dog, and bull fighting, and donkey shows, do yall mind killing 100 of those guys?

Yall ever lived in Dirty South Ghetto? It is probably like petit larceny down there. I cannot believe some of you are making it out to be a capital offense.

Anyways, I think it is horrible. I think he has shown horrible character.

[mayotm]

Basically I remember that game. He was bad ass. He owned the Bills. He can own a game. A lot of what he does doesn't show up in stats. I'm not sure there is a stat for juking someone our of their cleats. Or dodging a tackler and out-running another, while rolling out to rifle a 7 yard pass.

Then again, my "wife" would immediately take less interest. So I would lose a game buddy.

Anyways, dude didn't kill a friggin baby. In some cultures it is acceptable. Heck, Mexco has ****, dog, and bull fighting, and donkey shows, do yall mind killing 100 of those guys?

Yall ever lived in Dirty South Ghetto? It is probably like petit larceny down there. I cannot believe some of you are making it out to be a capital offense.

Anyways, I think it is horrible. I think he has shown horrible character.Even if Vick wasn't a deplorable human being, I wouldn't want him based on his football skills. Not to mention he hasn't played since 2006. Did he all the sudden become a better QB sitting out for two seasons? The thread was about if us fans would want him on the Bills. My answer is no as a football player. Hell no as a human being.

[yordad]

Even if Vick wasn't a deplorable human being, I wouldn't want him based on his football skills. Not to mention he hasn't played since 2006. Did he all the sudden become a better QB sitting out for two seasons? The thread was about if us fans would want him on the Bills. My answer is no as a football player. Hell no as a human being.OK. I never asked you to clarify. You asked me to clarify. I said it was an interesting dilemma.

I get it, you have him pegged. Your in his head. I, however, would need to know him better before I decided, because I am semi-confident Vick the football player could help this team on the field.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Michael Vick Vs the Buffalo Bills (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=28557&displayPage=tab_gamecenter&season=2005&week=REG3)

I do not have any statistics to back this up, but I remember a lot of horses**t 15 yard penalties against the Bills for having the nerve to touch Michael Vick during that game. I remember saying 'wow, the league really wants to protect their guy.' how things have changed in 4 years..

[Mr. Pink]

I do not have any statistics to back this up, but I remember a lot of horses**t 15 yard penalties against the Bills for having the nerve to touch Michael Vick during that game. I remember saying 'wow, the league really wants to protect their guy.' how things have changed in 4 years..


:rofl:

Selective memory I guess.

Seeing you can see in the statistics of that game, the Bills were called for 3 penalties totalling 35 yards...ALL GAME.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

:rofl:

Selective memory I guess.

Seeing you can see in the statistics of that game, the Bills were called for 3 penalties totalling 35 yards...ALL GAME.

haha. i figured it was selective memory and i was too lazy to look it up. But I definitely remember feeling that way @ the time. shows what a homer i am. LOL

[sdbillsfan2]

How about this :

1) We keep all the murderers ,rapist, and molesters in jail for life (and mean it)
And
2) Keep Michael Vick away from a Bills uniform , the Ralph, OP,
Erie county or anywhere else in western New York state!

[Jan Reimers]

How about this :

1) We keep all the murderers ,rapist, and molesters in jail for life (and mean it)
And
2) Keep Michael Vick away from a Bills uniform , the Ralph, OP,
Erie county or anywhere else in western New York state!
Works for me.

[kelly2reed4six]

The whole dog abuse thing was not the only thing this loser screwed up! What about the airport marijuana water bottle incident?; testing positive for chronic AFTER the dog abuse incident; Everyone deserves forgiveness if they are truly sorry for what they have done. And sure, he deserves a second chance, but not in the NFL. Getting out of prison and living as a civilian is his second chance.

[Buckets]

This realy does not have anything to do with the Bills. The fact of the matter is that Vick KNOWINGLY and INTENTIONALLY built a dog fighting ring promoted dog fighting, killed dogs that were not considered worthy among other infractions. This was not an accident or a momentary lapse of judgement this was a blatent criminal act. This man does not deserve to return to a place of glory and stature. He should not be allowed to influence any young minds to the idea that it's OK to screw up as long as you are a star athlete or celebrity. Vick made his bed and should have to lie in it. HE blew his chance big time.

[yordad]

This realy does not have anything to do with the Bills. The fact of the matter is that Vick KNOWINGLY and INTENTIONALLY built a dog fighting ring promoted dog fighting, killed dogs that were not considered worthy among other infractions. This was not an accident or a momentary lapse of judgement this was a blatent criminal act. This man does not deserve to return to a place of glory and stature. He should not be allowed to influence any young minds to the idea that it's OK to screw up as long as you are a star athlete or celebrity. Vick made his bed and should have to lie in it. HE blew his chance big time.He went to prison. He already layed in it.

[Buckets]

He went to prison. He already layed in it.

You're missing the point. This wasn't illegal steroids or DWI or some other stupid move. This was calculated, planned, and executed. The guy is a douche.
What is your facination with this deviate?

[billsfanone]

I'd be willing to give him a chance.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Vick to Owens baby!

[psubills62]

You're missing the point. This wasn't illegal steroids or DWI or some other stupid move. This was calculated, planned, and executed. The guy is a douche.
What is your facination with this deviate?

OK...so I guess people "accidentally" use illegal steroids, and people "mistakenly" drink and drive? Last I knew, most of those things are planned too.

I realized I never clarified my position: I don't actually want him on the team. I don't even think he should be playing in the NFL. But as fellow human beings, I feel we should be encouraging his rehabilitation. He's no more evil than any of us.

[billsfanone]

Vick to Owens baby!

Vick to Lynch to Vick to Owens flea-flicker!!!!

[THATHURMANATOR]

Vick to Lynch to Vick to Owens flea-flicker!!!!
Now that is some attitude right there.

[TheMan08]

Some of you guys care more about your dog than your wives and girl friends. that is outrageous. If your house burns do you rescue the puppy or son if you have only one shot?

Be honest, serious question.

[OpIv37]

He's no more evil than any of us.

I disagree with that completely. We've all done things that we shouldn't have or things we're not proud of. But most of us have not intentionally harmed small animals for profit in violation of state and federal law.

Not all wrongs are equal.

[OpIv37]

Some of you guys care more about your dog than your wives and girl friends. that is outrageous. If your house burns do you rescue the puppy or son if you have only one shot?

Be honest, serious question.

This is a red herring argument. The discussion isn't a debate about whether hurting animals is worse than hurting people. The debate is about whether it's wrong to hurt animals. Those of us who aren't sociopaths think that hurting animals is wrong, and even for those that don't, it's still against the law.

[billsfanone]

We friggin slaughter defenseless cows for our tasty hamburgers. So I'd enjoy watching Vick tear it up for the Bills while eating my yummy burger.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Some of you guys care more about your dog than your wives and girl friends. that is outrageous. If your house burns do you rescue the puppy or son if you have only one shot?

Be honest, serious question.
Only a complete fool would have to think about this question for a millisecond.

[TheMan08]

We friggin slaughter defenseless cows for our tasty hamburgers. So I'd enjoy watching Vick tear it up for the Bills while eating my yummy burger.

What about the buffalo wings that countless chickens get beheaded that we dip in blue cheese at McFaddens! We spit in the face of PETA without remorse for the spicy flavor.

[OpIv37]

We friggin slaughter defenseless cows for our tasty hamburgers. So I'd enjoy watching Vick tear it up for the Bills while eating my yummy burger.

There are two flaws to your argument. The first is comparing the way cows are slaughtered to the way Vick mistreated those dogs. Cows killed for food are killed quickly and humanely, and there are rules and regulations governing their treatment. Yes, the rules aren't always followed and sometimes livestock are subjected to inhumane treatment, which is wrong. But it's different than dogfighting, which by it's very nature subjects dogs to suffering and inhumane treatment.

The second is assuming that Vick would tear it up for the Bills. The guy missed an entire season and he struggled to have a mental grasp of the position even before that. He got by purely on athleticism. He would add little or nothing to this team.

[Mr. Pink]

This is a red herring argument. The discussion isn't a debate about whether hurting animals is worse than hurting people. The debate is about whether it's wrong to hurt animals. Those of us who aren't sociopaths think that hurting animals is wrong, and even for those that don't, it's still against the law.

I'm willing to bet that every single member on this board has killed an animal once or twice in their lifetimes.

Difference is society doesn't deem them "cute" ro it's ok to harm those animals.

The only reason why Michael Vick's crime is so heinous is because how we view dogs, meanwhile a slaughterhouse is A-OK! As is eating quarterpounders.

[billsfanone]

What about the buffalo wings that countless chickens get beheaded that we dip in blue cheese at McFaddens! We spit in the face of PETA without remorse for the spicy flavor.

Give me a double order of wings and let me watch Vick!

[Mr. Pink]

What about the buffalo wings that countless chickens get beheaded that we dip in blue cheese at McFaddens! We spit in the face of PETA without remorse for the spicy flavor.


Like I said way earlier in this thread....

Dogs are cute, so we can't kill them.

Cows and chickens are dinner, so its alright.

[TheMan08]

Furthermore... HORSERACING is a Valid argument also. Hundreds of horses die every year from racing. We abuse them for entertainment and gambling. Don't deny it. Why the hell do you think animal rights is outside screaming at the Kentucky Derby.

[OpIv37]

I'm willing to bet that every single member on this board has killed an animal once or twice in their lifetimes.

Difference is society doesn't deem them "cute" ro it's ok to harm those animals.

The only reason why Michael Vick's crime is so heinous is because how we view dogs, meanwhile a slaughterhouse is A-OK! As is eating quarterpounders.

Like I just said, in theory there are rules and standards for how animals are treated in slaughterhouses, and they are killed quickly and humanely. Sometimes those rules and regulations are violated, and the people who do that should be prosecuted as well.

By it's very nature, dogfighting submits dogs to inhumane treatment and suffering. It's not the same thing at all.

[TheMan08]

All parties associated know... there is a very good chance a horse can die from racing. THEY KNOW IT. THEY DON'T CARE. It is about the MONEY!

[billsfanone]

Hypothetical...

Say we get Vick. Ok 84.26% of you would be mad. So lets say he leads us to the super bowl. Would you root for the Bills to win?

[TheMan08]

HORSERACING IS INHUMANE

[OpIv37]

HORSERACING IS INHUMANE

very true.

[TheMan08]

Hypothetical...

Say we get Vick. Ok 84.26% of you would be mad. So lets say he leads us to the super bowl. Would you root for the Bills to win?

Jan would secretly have a Vick jersey for his dog. The cute ones that look like sweaters.

[Mr. Pink]

Like I just said, in theory there are rules and standards for how animals are treated in slaughterhouses, and they are killed quickly and humanely. Sometimes those rules and regulations are violated, and the people who do that should be prosecuted as well.

By it's very nature, dogfighting submits dogs to inhumane treatment and suffering. It's not the same thing at all.


So does cokc* fighting...where is the big public outcry?

So does horse racing...where is the big public outcry?

So does boxing...where is the big public outcry?

So does UFC/MMA...where is the big public outcry?

All of the above are "inhumane" yet still done and socially acceptable.

[billsfanone]

Jan would secretly have a Vick versey for his dog. The cute ones that look like sweaters.

:lol:

[TheMan08]

very true.

Thanks

[psubills62]

I disagree with that completely. We've all done things that we shouldn't have or things we're not proud of. But most of us have not intentionally harmed small animals for profit in violation of state and federal law.

Not all wrongs are equal.

Well, maybe I should clarify that I am a Christian. So to me, we all have an evil nature. I'm living by the verse "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." By that comparison, we've all fallen short, therefore none of us are any better off than the others. That's where the grace of God comes into play.

It's just a matter of perception. Some people have very relative morals. A baby killer may feel that kicking dogs is the worst thing to do in the world. Does that mean that anyone who kicks dogs is worse than him? Not according to most, although maybe according to that baby killer. So I don't think any of us can say "well, his or her sins are worse than mine, so I'm less evil." To the world, "evil" is a very relative term at this point. To God, it's not.

You may disagree with that, but this entire post of mine doesn't exactly belong in the Bills forum. I just wanted to clarify my position on that.

[TheMan08]

UFC isn't inhumane. It is mixed martial arts. It is violant... so is football. It is a mix of various forms of grappling and martial arts. Boxing is a science too.

[OpIv37]

So does cokc* fighting...where is the big public outcry?

So does horse racing...where is the big public outcry?

So does boxing...where is the big public outcry?

So does UFC/MMA...where is the big public outcry?

All of the above are "inhumane" yet still done and socially acceptable.

First, there is a public outcry about **** fighting- you just don't here about it because no celebrity has gotten busted for it and it just really isn't that prevalent.

Second, horse racing is inhumane and there should be more of a public outcry.

Third- boxing and UFC/MMA involve HUMANS who participate ON THEIR OWN VOLITION. It's not inhumane when the participants do so voluntarily. It's nothing like humans forcing animals to do these things. Animals don't have the mental capacity to determine if they want to do it or not. They just do what humans force them to do.

If we took prisoners and made them participate in combat sports for our own amusement like the Romans did, THAT would be inhumane.

[Mr. Pink]

UFC isn't inhumane. It is mixed martial arts. It is violant... so is football. It is a mix of various forms of grappling and martial arts. Boxing is a science too.


Ok, then dog fighting isn't inhumane...it's a science. The dogs could choose to stand there and not fight each other, but they do. They're trained to do this. As is a boxer, he's trained to stand there and try to beat the piss outta the guy standing across from him.

Standing there pounding on someone else for fun, money and to the line the pockets of others isn't humane.

Many things in life aren't "humane" yet some are fine, that was basically my whole point especially if you miss the sarcasm of the first paragraph.

[TheMan08]

Ok to Jan and a few other posters... Should jockey's, horse owners burn in hell too? Like Vick?

Should they be jailed?

[mayotm]

So does cokc* fighting...where is the big public outcry?

So does horse racing...where is the big public outcry?

So does boxing...where is the big public outcry?

So does UFC/MMA...where is the big public outcry?

All of the above are "inhumane" yet still done and socially acceptable.Pathetic mentioning boxing and UFC / MMA where people choose to participate in those events. Animals don't get a choice.

[yordad]

Pathetic mentioning boxing and UFC / MMA where people choose to participate in those events. Animals don't get a choice.Gez, talk about choosing what you hear. :fishy:

[Joe Fo Sho]

Hypothetical...

Say we get Vick. Ok 84.26% of you would be mad. So lets say he leads us to the super bowl. Would you root for the Bills to win?

I would root so damn hard for the Bills to win, no matter who is playing any position. Hell, I would have a Michael Vick, Marcus Vick, Pacman Jones, Tank Johnson, Manny Ramirez, Mike Tyson, George Bush, Monica Lewinski, and Adolf Hitler jersey if they brought a championship to Buffalo.

[yordad]

You're missing the point. This wasn't illegal steroids or DWI or some other stupid move. This was calculated, planned, and executed. The guy is a douche.
What is your fascination with this deviate?I have a fascination huh? I must be the only one that replied. This thread must not be going on double digit pages, right? How was stating the fact the HE DID HIS FREAKIN TIME considered a "fascination"? If anything, the fact I figure he did his time shows a lack of fascination; as in "moving on". One with an open mind would think those who are comparing dog fighting to raping babies are those who are fascinated. I get it. You don't think a couple years in prison is good enough. You think it should be a capital offense. You think he deserves to rot in hell because his actions were "premeditated" and somehow a DWI isn't. You feel as if he somehow cheated you, or society. You feel he should live out the rest of his days in solitary confinement eating cockroaches for dinner every night of his cell floor. I get it. You are all up in his head. Your ideas and morals are the only ones that exist. And everyone in Mexico should be killed. Everyone in the Middle East should be killed. Every horse jockey or horse better should be killed. Everyone who ever walked into a OTB should be killed. Heck, everyone who isn't a vegetarian should be killed. Fisherman should be killed.

THEY ARE ALL A BUNCH OF BABY RAPERS, right? Is this what you think? Yet somehow I, the one who thinks he did his time, am the one who is "fascinated" and deserving of insult? OK buddy. Thanks for clarifying. Now that I know I am obsessed I can go get his poster. Phew, what would I do without you.
<table class="tborder" width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr><td class="tcat" colspan="2">Who Posted? Total Posts: 153
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="thead" width="100%">User Name</td> <td class="thead">Posts</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt1"> Jan Reimers (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/member.php?u=1375) </td> <td class="alt1">21</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt2"> TheMan08 (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/member.php?u=19481) </td> <td class="alt2">15</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt1"> FunTimesYaY! 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[Lexwhat]

First, there is a public outcry about **** fighting- you just don't here about it because no celebrity has gotten busted for it and it just really isn't that prevalent.

You said it.

This is exactly why I feel Vick has paid his dues. The justice system made an example out of him to scare others.

Of course, Vick got exactly what was coming to him though. I just don't see the need to chastise him any more than he has already been chastised.

His punishment fit the crime.

[Joe Fo Sho]

None of this has anything to do with Football anyways. The guy made a mistake, a big mistake. Whether you think he's paid his dues or not, I don't know how many would actually want this style of QB on our team.

The only way I would want him, is if we let him run whenever he wanted to, and not try to make him a pocket passer. I hate this style of QB, like Vick and Vince Young, but they win when allowed to make plays with their feet. Never happen in B-Lo though.

[mayotm]

Gez, talk about choosing what you hear. :fishy:Piss off.

[Jan Reimers]

Jan would secretly have a Vick jersey for his dog. The cute ones that look like sweaters.
My wife and I adopt ex-racing greyhounds, who are among the most docile and affectionate dogs you will ever find. Their treatment during their racing careers is inhumane enough, although not anything like Vick inflicted on his dogs.

Neither our greyhounds or black labs will ever wear a Michael Vick sweater. Maybe, though, I would get one with his face on it for them to s**t on.

[yordad]

Piss off.Is that how you handle a dissenting opinion? :maggie:

[yordad]

TacklingDummy, after all the smack you talked about Lynch, how the heck did you vote FOR wanting Vick?

[mayotm]

Is that how you handle a dissenting opinion? :maggie:It's how I handle ignorant opinions.