Mike Williams or Whitner

[TheMan08]

Bigger Bust. Whitner by default

[TheMan08]

do you mean this page?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Williams_(offensive_lineman

They changed it back so i changed the thread cause i couldn't delete

[THATHURMANATOR]

Bigger Bust. Whitner by default
There are way bigger busts than Whitner man.

[BillsWin]

Whitner isnt a bust yet, but he is almost there...

[Mahdi]

Bigger Bust. Whitner by default
How bout we field an NFL caliber DL before we call Whitner a bust.

There isn't ONE good safety in the league who doesn't play behind a good DL. They go hand in hand and Whitner will always be average so long as the DL is weak.

[OpIv37]

How bout we field an NFL caliber DL before we call Whitner a bust.

There isn't ONE good safety in the league who doesn't play behind a good DL. They go hand in hand and Whitner will always be average so long as the DL is weak.

How bout we stop making excuses for Whitner and just admit that he's mediocre? It's never his fault- it's always the coaches, the system, the DL... it's never Whitner's fault. I don't know why people can't just admit that he doesn't live up to expectations.

Seriously, I consider a bust to be a player who is completely useless, and Mike Williams is far more of a bust than Whitner. It's not even close. But there is no doubt that Whitner has not lived up to this expectations and I don't get this pathological refusal to hold the guy accountable for his play.

[ddaryl]

Until Whitner starts making plays he is just an average player

Mike Williams is a MUCH MUCH MUCH bigger bust IMO. He wasn't even average after his 1st year

[billsfanone]

Whitner is far from a bust. Is he #11 caliber, no. But he's a starting safety on any team. Average at best.

[Mitchell55]

McCargo, Flowers, Williams, all bigger bust frm just the past 10 years. There are some more all time

[Mitchell55]

Whitner is far from a bust. Is he #11 caliber, no. But he's a starting safety on any team. Average at best.


#8. Lets put it this way, if he was the 15th pick, he would be overated on these boards.

[OpIv37]

McCargo, Flowers, Williams, all bigger bust frm just the past 10 years. There are some more all time

You forgot Losman.

[TacklingDummy]

Bigger Bust. Whitner by default Williams because he was drafted higher and paid more money, I think.

Whitner is also a bust though.

[ddaryl]

McCargo, Flowers, Williams, all bigger bust frm just the past 10 years. There are some more all time

McCargo gets one more training camp / preseason and possible season to prove he is a bust or not.

[billsfanone]

#8. Lets put it this way, if he was the 15th pick, he would be overated on these boards.

Whatever. I agree. He's not even a #15. I'd say he'd be worth it if he was a 2nd rounder. Hindsight is 50/50 though. I don't think it was a bad pick. At least he's serviceable.

[OpIv37]

Whatever. I agree. He's not even a #15. I'd say he'd be worth it if he was a 2nd rounder. Hindsight is 50/50 though. I don't think it was a bad pick. At least he's serviceable.

He is serviceable, but when you combine Whitner's play with the opportunity cost of taking Whitner over some of the guys drafted after him, it was a bad pick.

And hindsight is 50/50? WTF does that mean?

I think you meant 20/20.

[Mitchell55]

McCargo gets one more training camp / preseason and possible season to prove he is a bust or not.


Yeah, I agree. He needs some playing time to see. Also, Whitner, Williams, Youboty, and McCargo all should not be in the bust sheet. Whitner and Williams start, Youboty and McCargo havent been proven to be either.

[Mitchell55]

He is serviceable, but when you combine Whitner's play with the opportunity cost of taking Whitner over some of the guys drafted after him, it was a bad pick.




At least we got a starter, Oakland Huff

[Commissioner]

I don't understand why so many people are so down on Whitner. Yeah he hasn't made a ton of impact plays... but he certainly does not suck.

You can't compare every safety to Troy Paolamalu or Ed Reed.... that's stupid.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Easily Williams. Whitner isn't a difference maker but he isn't a liability, either. Reach? Yes. Bust? No.

[OpIv37]

Yeah, I agree. He needs some playing time to see. Also, Whitner, Williams, Youboty, and McCargo all should not be in the bust sheet. Whitner and Williams start, Youboty and McCargo havent been proven to be either.

You do realize we're talking about Mike Williams the OT and not Kyle Williams the DT, right?

I don't think anyone would argue that Kyle Williams is a bust. While he's inconsistent at times, he either starts or figures heavily in the rotation and he was only a 5th round pick. Hell, he's been much better than McCargo who was a first round pick.

[Mr. Pink]

Whitner is still in the league and somewhat contributes...

Williams is done.

Therefore, it's easy, Williams.

[OpIv37]

I don't understand why so many people are so down on Whitner. Yeah he hasn't made a ton of impact plays... but he certainly does not suck.

You can't compare every safety to Troy Paolamalu or Ed Reed.... that's stupid.

See, this is one of those other Whitner defenses. If someone criticizes him, the Whitner Defense Committee immediately accuses that person of trying to to compare him to Reed or Polamalu.

Forget about those guys.

How about more than 1 big hit every 3 years? How about a few more passes defensed? I'm not talking double digits, but maybe 6 or 7 a season. How about getting 2 INT's in one season? How about not getting trucked by running backs twice in one year? How about not taking bad angles when the run breaks out?

These are the reasons why some of us are critical of Whitner. No one expects him to be Ed Reed, but we do expect him to have at least SOME impact.

[ParanoidAndroid]

I don't understand why so many people are so down on Whitner. Yeah he hasn't made a ton of impact plays... but he certainly does not suck.

You can't compare every safety to Troy Paolamalu or Ed Reed.... that's stupid.

He should be compared to the best safeties in the league because of where he was drafted. If you spend a #8 pick, you expect a big impact and a top 10 player at their relative position. Whitner deserves some criticism, but he does not, however, deserve the "bust" label. That's just someone stirring the BS pot.

[The Spaz]

Bigger Bust. Whitner by default

How in the **** is Whitner a bigger bust than Williams? The fat **** Williams is just coming to the Redskins and getting a tryout.

[Mitchell55]

You do realize we're talking about Mike Williams the OT and not Kyle Williams the DT, right?

I don't think anyone would argue that Kyle Williams is a bust. While he's inconsistent at times, he either starts or figures heavily in the rotation and he was only a 5th round pick. Hell, he's been much better than McCargo who was a first round pick.



Im saying they should be off limits in the bust collomn right now. I know who we are talking about

[SquishDaFish]

Williams is a bust. Whitner isnt even close to becoming a bust yet. Hes decent not horrible anyway

[Mahdi]

How bout we stop making excuses for Whitner and just admit that he's mediocre? It's never his fault- it's always the coaches, the system, the DL... it's never Whitner's fault. I don't know why people can't just admit that he doesn't live up to expectations.

Seriously, I consider a bust to be a player who is completely useless, and Mike Williams is far more of a bust than Whitner. It's not even close. But there is no doubt that Whitner has not lived up to this expectations and I don't get this pathological refusal to hold the guy accountable for his play.
Show me one great safety in the NFL without a solid DL in front of him....

[OpIv37]

Show me one great safety in the NFL without a solid DL in front of him....

So, if a S is good, it's because the DL makes him good, and if a S is bad, it's because the DL makes him bad. Then what's the difference between a good S and a bad S? And if a good DL can make a S better, why didn't we take Ngata instead of Whitner?

"He'd be better if he had a better DL". Yeah, and Bledsoe would have been better if he had a better OL and Lynch would be better with a better OL and our WR's would be better with a better receiving threat at TE and the list goes on and on.

Of course it's easier to play better if you're on a better team. But Whitner's not on a better team. A #8 overall draft pick needs to make the team better. That's why bad teams get to pick low. When single-digit draft picks are brought down to the level of the team that drafted them instead of making the team better, those teams will continue to lose.

[Mahdi]

So, if a S is good, it's because the DL makes him good, and if a S is bad, it's because the DL makes him bad. Then what's the difference between a good S and a bad S? And if a good DL can make a S better, why didn't we take Ngata instead of Whitner?

"He'd be better if he had a better DL". Yeah, and Bledsoe would have been better if he had a better OL and Lynch would be better with a better OL and our WR's would be better with a better receiving threat at TE and the list goes on and on.

Of course it's easier to play better if you're on a better team. But Whitner's not on a better team. A #8 overall draft pick needs to make the team better. That's why bad teams get to pick low. When single-digit draft picks are brought down to the level of the team that drafted them instead of making the team better, those teams will continue to lose.
My point is that they go hand in hand.

A great safety behind a DL that can't pressure a QB means he is running around in coverage for 4 or 5 seconds which usually results in an easy completion.

A great safety behind a great DL has the benefit of a rushed throw, bad decision, toss up passes etc. that he can use his instincts to make plays on.

Whitner rarely has the advantage of QBs having to make hurried throws, his game is limited by the inability of the DL to create up front. It also affects your mentality as a safety. If you know the DL is weak and is not likely to get pressure you play safe.

If you know your DL is going to harass the QB you can put yourself in position to make plays on the ball.

It is a completely different mindset.

[OpIv37]

My point is that they go hand in hand.

A great safety behind a DL that can't pressure a QB means he is running around in coverage for 4 or 5 seconds which usually results in an easy completion.

A great safety behind a great DL has the benefit of a rushed throw, bad decision, toss up passes etc. that he can use his instincts to make plays on.

Whitner rarely has the advantage of QBs having to make hurried throws, his game is limited by the inability of the DL to create up front. It also affects your mentality as a safety. If you know the DL is weak and is not likely to get pressure you play safe.

If you know your DL is going to harass the QB you can put yourself in position to make plays on the ball.

It is a completely different mindset.

That may explain why he doesn't get his hands on the ball more often- if not INT's, at least passes defensed. It doesn't explain the bad angles on the long runs. It doesn't explain getting trucked by ball carriers. It doesn't explain the lack of big hits. I'm not letting the DL off the hook here- they need to be held accountable. But so does Whitner. There are a lot of people on this team not doing their jobs and we shouldn't be making excuses for any of them.

[Mahdi]

That may explain why he doesn't get his hands on the ball more often- if not INT's, at least passes defensed. It doesn't explain the bad angles on the long runs. It doesn't explain getting trucked by ball carriers. It doesn't explain the lack of big hits. I'm not letting the DL off the hook here- they need to be held accountable. But so does Whitner. There are a lot of people on this team not doing their jobs and we shouldn't be making excuses for any of them.
K, every safety in the NFL gets trucked on occasion. And the lack of deflected passes is a result of the same thing I already pointed out.

Whitner is in safe mode ALL the time. The whole defense last year was based on SAFE MODE.

CBs playing 10 yards off..Why? cause QBs had all day to throw so you avoid getting beat deep.

There was nothing special about our Defense last year because everything starts up front and stems from there.

When our DL improves the back 7 will improve also.

[Lexwhat]

Whitner is still in the league and somewhat contributes...

Williams is done.

Therefore, it's easy, Williams.

Mike Williams is in the league.

http://www.redskins.com/team/

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Right now, Whitner is the best safety in what appears to be a bad draft class: Huff hasn't been as good for Oakland, neither has Allen for Miami, and Bullocks, who was taken after Whitner and would have been the alternative to him, was just cut by Detroit. Bethea had one good year playing next to Sanders, but slid back last season.

Has Whitner played up to expectations for the 8th pick in the draft? No. Not so far. But, overall he has been a quality starter and may get better if the Bills get a better pass rush this season and he isn't asked to play so many other positions.

I could list a bunch of bigger busts in Bills history, but Mike Williams is still by far the biggest in recent history, with Eric Flowers and JP Losman (who no one has even bothered to sign as a backup QB in a league starving for QBs) would have to rank well above Whitner when you talk about busts.

John McCargo is far closer to being a bust and has this one season to show that he doesn't belong in the same sentence as Flowers in that discussion.

[Lexwhat]

Right now, Whitner is the best safety in what appears to be a bad draft class: Huff hasn't been as good for Oakland, neither has Allen for Miami, and Bullocks, who was taken after Whitner and would have been the alternative to him, was just cut by Detroit. Bethea had one good year playing next to Sanders, but slid back last season.

You are a very intelligent poster, but Antoine Bethea is significantly better than Whitner. And Bethea actually FILLED IN for Sanders at Strong Safety last year when Sanders was injured. I'm surprised you didn't know?

Bethea is the best safety in that draft, period. He's a playmaker. Polian found a gem there.

Even Dawan Landry (5th rounder) represents much better value than Whitner. Of course, Landry has the benefit of a stout defense around him, but I don't think we would see much difference with Landry in our lineup compared to Whitner.

[Mitchell55]

So, if a S is good, it's because the DL makes him good, and if a S is bad, it's because the DL makes him bad. Then what's the difference between a good S and a bad S? And if a good DL can make a S better, why didn't we take Ngata instead of Whitner?

"He'd be better if he had a better DL". Yeah, and Bledsoe would have been better if he had a better OL and Lynch would be better with a better OL and our WR's would be better with a better receiving threat at TE and the list goes on and on.

Of course it's easier to play better if you're on a better team. But Whitner's not on a better team. A #8 overall draft pick needs to make the team better. That's why bad teams get to pick low. When single-digit draft picks are brought down to the level of the team that drafted them instead of making the team better, those teams will continue to lose.



You are the king in twisting someones post to the way you want to read it.

[DynaPaul]

No way. It's Williams without question.

[Kenny]

How is this even debatable? Whitner is at least somewhat average. Williams was nothing more than a pile of fat.

[Turbo.GUN.Hawk!]

Oh god, this song is so old. How many times a month we need to discuss this theme?

[Patti120]

I can't believe I just wasted my time reading through this post. Please people Mike Williams vs Donte Whitner as a bust? Is this a serious question? Donte Whitner is no way even in the same stratosphere, universe or even galaxy when the word "bust" is used if you are comparing him to Mike Williams.

Please don't take this as a "I love Donte Whitner" post because I believe he has some issues, but c'mon.