Against the Jets: Did Peters really not know the play?

[Ebenezer]

Remember the infamous play against the Jets where Losman rolled out? On WGR yesterday they were talking about that play and Peters. I was only in the car for a moment. They mentioned that Peters didn't know the play and was supposed to have Losman's back on the play...that he missed the block because he didn't know what he was supposed to do.

Is that true? Do we have a link to that or is it credible?

[justasportsfan]

let's talk about Flutie vs. Rob Johnson instead.

[madness]

Either way, Losman wasn't supposed to roll out so we had two men on field that didn't have a clue.

[Ebenezer]

let's talk about Flutie vs. Rob Johnson instead.
We just traded away what some people consider to be the best player on the team...I'm looking for justification.

[OpIv37]

We just traded away what some people consider to be the best player on the team...I'm looking for justification.

He probably knew the play but was just confused because calling that play in that situation was ridiculous. "wait, they want me to do that, NOW? That can't possibly be right.... oh **** he just snapped the ball, now what?"

[Captain gameboy]

We just traded away what some people consider to be the best player on the team...I'm looking for justification.

He wanted out, and was a jerk about it.
Ample justification for me.

[Yasgur's Farm]

:wtf: So he confused that play with the one he's supposed to take off???

[OpIv37]

:wtf: So he confused that play with the one he's supposed to take off???

I don't think he took that play off. I think he either whiffed on the block or didn't know who he was supposed to block.

Don't get me wrong- he clearly screwed up. But I think it was lack of execution, not lack of effort.

[MikeInRoch]

I'm sure he mis-heard in the huddle:

"Jason, on this play it's important that you stand there and day dream about the big contract extension you didn't get."

[SabreEleven]

Jason didn't get paid enough to know that play. It wasn't in his contract.

[Yasgur's Farm]

I don't think he took that play off. I think he either whiffed on the block or didn't know who he was supposed to block.

Don't get me wrong- he clearly screwed up. But I think it was lack of execution, not lack of effort.I understand what you're saying... But when someone says the result of the play was because somebody forgot the play, it insinuates that they had to make a poor choice... Since Peters' only 2 choices were to block that guy or not block that guy, by the logic of SI, he must have chose to not block him.

[ChristopherWalken]

Straight from the horses mouth:

The play was supposed to be a short pass to fullback Corey McIntyre, and if he wasn't available, Losman should have just thrown the ball away. Instead, he held the ball too long and that gave Elam time to blitz from the backside and sack Losman.

Losman bristled and refused to answer when asked if he felt the pressure behind him, but offensive coordinator Turk Schonert didn't mince words.

"He's got to see the blitz," Schonert said. "And when the fullback gets stuffed immediately, he's got to protect it or just throw it away."

Losman, who agreed with Schonert's assessment, had a rather pedestrian performance before his big mistake. He completed 24 of 39 passes, but for only 148 yards. His longest completion was for 14 yards.

http://www.buffalonews.com/469/story/523266.html

[OpIv37]

Why the hell would they call that play?

Back when Mularkey was coach, I said numerous times that his logic for calling certain plays was 'That's so stupid they'll never expect us to do it".

Same thing applies here. McIntyre doesn't usually handle the ball, and fullbacks wear extra padding on their ribs that makes their arms less mobile and makes it harder to cradle the ball against the body. Just a ****ing ridiculous play call.

[TacklingDummy]

Is that true? Do we have a link to that or is it credible?

you never watched the video?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/09000d5d80d4ac83/WK-15-Can-t-Miss-Play-Ellis-to-the-rescue

[trapezeus]

a thread about two guys who aren't on the team anymore?

That was perhaps the most annoying loss of the season and two guys who we didn't want and/or didn't want to be here are now gone.

Let's see how these rookies step in.

[ChristopherWalken]

Looking at the video again, Peters certainly does a half-assed job of making that block.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vySGAGUe3zg&feature=player_embedded

[TacklingDummy]

Looking at the video again, Peters certainly does a half-assed job of making that block.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vySGAGUe3zg&feature=player_embedded

Peters shares as much blame as anyone else for the results of that play.

[OpIv37]

Peters shares as much blame as anyone else for the results of that play.

That was a perfect example of a play where EVERYTHING went wrong. It was a terrible play call from the beginning.

McIntyre got stuffed at the line so JP had nowhere to go.

JP decided to run with the ball rather than throwing it away.

Peters missed his block.

JP failed to protect the ball.

It's amazing that a highly paid group of so-called professionals could screw up that many times on a single play, but they did.

[ChristopherWalken]

Watch McIntyre as well. He does a horrendous job of shedding off the DE and then never looks back until its all much too late.

My Assessment:

Horrible blocking on the line: Right and Left
Losman hold the ball much too long
McIntyre looks back much too late
Horrendous play call in that situation

[OpIv37]

Watch McIntyre as well. He does a horrendous job of shedding off the DE and then never looks back until its all much too late.

My Assessment:

Horrible blocking on the line: Right and Left
Losman hold the ball much too long
McIntyre looks back much too late
Horrendous play call in that situation

your first point and your last point are closely related. On a team with Lynch, Evans, Reed, Jackson and Parrish, plus Losman who is used to handling the ball and can run, why the HELL would you call a PASS to a guy who doesn't normally run routes or handle the ball?

Again, I'm a firm believer in holding players accountable so I'm not making excuses for Peters or the rest of the line- they didn't do their jobs. But this play was doomed from the second it was called. Even if the line had held up and JP had gotten the pass off, there's no guarantee that it would have been accurate and there's no guarantee that McIntyre would have caught it and made the first down without fumbling.

[justasportsfan]

We just traded away what some people consider to be the best player on the team...I'm looking for justification.
I understand what you're saying however there won't be any justification after we see if we are better or worse after this season. What happened on that play does not reflect one specific player but the entire team from the call playing down to the janitor.

[T-Long]

Didn't know the play?? JUST ****ING BLOCK THE GUY IN FRONT OF YOU!!! It doesn't matter what the play call was!

[Mr. Pink]

Even if he did, it doesn't make much difference to be honest...

Just Pathetic held the ball too long, had all day and didn't properly secure the football.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Look at the video before you go on your favorite bashing spree... Unless of course by "just pathetic" you mean Jason Peters. I don't think Jason Peters even slowed the guy down.

[Mr. Pink]

Look at the video before you go on your favorite bashing spree... Unless of course by "just pathetic" you mean Jason Peters. I don't think Jason Peters even slowed the guy down.

considering where the play ended and where it started, Peters whiffing on a block, which he clearly did...shouldn't have made any difference if JP got rid of the ball or made sure to secure it properly.

Considering the idiot was WELL outside of the pocket, he should have just thrown it away. But that comes back to the moron's awareness or lack thereof.

[Yasgur's Farm]

The "idiot" made a bad assumption... He assumed Peters at least slowed the backside pressure. That's usually a pretty sound assumption.

If you watch the play... McIntyre was just starting to come open.

But of course, if you want to turn this thread into your favorite topic, I suppose you have the right. Have at it... I won't stand in your way.

[Mr. Pink]

This thread is about that play in specific as a way to trash Jason Peters...

Jason Peters wasn't without fault on the play but his error isn't what caused the end result.

Period.

[ddaryl]

This thread is about that play in specific as a way to trash Jason Peters...

Jason Peters wasn't without fault on the play but his error isn't what caused the end result.

Period.


really so if Peters makes that block ...... ?

[Mr. Pink]

really so if Peters makes that block ...... ?


:rofl:

How much time should he have had on that play? 10 seconds before making a decision?

[Yasgur's Farm]

Actually, you can easily see the time on the video... Ball is hiked at about 1.5 seconds... He's hit at about 4.5 seconds = 3 seconds.

But if you wanna call it 10...

[psubills62]

:rofl:

How much time should he have had on that play? 10 seconds before making a decision?

10 seconds isn't necessary. But any amount of time greater than 3 seconds would have been nice. There are plenty of options in between the two...like 4, 5, or even 6 seconds!

Yes, Losman was supposed to have thrown it away. But come on...like Peters doesn't realize that 1) it's Losman back there, and 2) block the guy anyways just in case the play goes bad?

I'm sick of this crap about "well, the QB held the ball too long so it's not ______'s fault that he allowed the sack." Well you know what? Every other tackle has to deal with that too sometimes. And while a tackle can't necessarily be expected to hold his block for 10-20 seconds, he still needs to make sure that he plays to the whistle, not to whenever he feels the ball should have been passed.

[Mr. Pink]

Actually he had 4 full seconds...and if you wanna straight out blame Peters for whiffing...Bryan Thomas 99 and Shaun Ellis 92 were about a second away from smacking him in the mouth anyways.

Two guys I assume he clearly saw and he still was nowhere near a throwing motion.

As Dierdorf says in the video "Losman has to protect the football"

[jamze132]

Anyone ever figure out why McIntyre was "tied up"? Maybe he was exposing himself...

[Philagape]

Peters whiffing resulted in a free rusher on Losman. There are several possibilities between that and the end result, such as a sack but no fumble; throwing the ball away; running out of bounds; or throwing to McIntyre (there was still time for that).

As has been pointed out, several things went wrong on that play. Bad play call, bad blocking, bad QBing. But even with the bad call and bad blocking, the play was still salvageable, and the worst case should been merely a wasted play but still keeping possession and likely winning. Leave it to Losman to make the worst case worse.

[SabreEleven]

Maybe that play happened because the whole offensive sucked massive moose penis.

[TacklingDummy]

Jason Peters wasn't without fault on the play but his error isn't what caused the end result.

It was 33% Peters fault.

[Jan Reimers]

Jason Peters being named to last season's Pro Bowl is a complete travesty. He is as much to blame for this play as he is for our mediocre season.

I am glad the stupid, lazy malcontent is gone.

[TedMock]

There were a few things on that play. 1. Peters grossly mis-judged Ellis' speed when he checked inside for that split second. 2. He checked inside because the LB there had a well-timed blitz. Then he wasn't even close to recovering. 3. Losman was out of the pocket and McIntyre in the flat with his head turned and ready for the ball when JP still had a moment to at least throw it the full 3 feet into his direction. 4. McIntyre did indeed get slowed up on that play and it wasn't dumb luck. The DE on that side made a great play. He saw our FB and our RB coming at him one-behind-the-other. He read it, lunged into McIntyre to slow up what was obviously a designed pass to the back, then took on the RB. That screwed up JP's timing. JP then had pressure coming due to the Peters whiff and JP doesn't think as fast as a normal human, so he just never tossed the ball forward. So, the Jets had 3 guys make very good plays on that snap and the Bills had 3 guys screw up on that snap. McIntyre's foul up wasn't nearly as bad as Peters' and Losman's. It's a close call, but Losman, Peters - in that order - ruined the game.

[yordad]

Either way, Losman wasn't supposed to roll out so we had two men on field that didn't have a clue.He rolled away from the missed blocked. Should he have just stood there and been sacked sooner?

[yordad]

Actually he had 4 full seconds...and if you wanna straight out blame Peters for whiffing...Bryan Thomas 99 and Shaun Ellis 92 were about a second away from smacking him in the mouth anyways.

Two guys I assume he clearly saw and he still was nowhere near a throwing motion.

As Dierdorf says in the video "Losman has to protect the football"Losman was hit as he was about to pull the trigger. If there was a Peters block, there would have been a Losman Pass, plan and simple.

[Jan Reimers]

Losman was hit as he was about to pull the trigger. If there was a Peters block, there would have been a Losman Pass, plan and simple.
Come on, yordad, it's all Losman's fault, every time. Jason Peters is the second coming of Anthony Munoz, and you and I know it.

[Ebenezer]

Losman was hit as he was about to pull the trigger. If there was a Peters block, there would have been a Losman Pass, plan and simple.
we don't really know that...this thread was supposed to be about Peters but folks didn't want to leave it at that...oh, well.

[yordad]

we don't really know that...this thread was supposed to be about Peters but folks didn't want to leave it at that...oh, well.Oh no, we do know that. He was cocking him arm to toss it to McIntyre as he was hit from behind. Watch the vid. Also, this IS about Peters. He completely whiffed on his guy, and made no attempt at the fumble, and no attempt at a tackle after the fumble becasue he was jogging the whole play.

[Mr. Pink]

He wasn't cocking his arm to throw the ball.

He had two other players right in his face who were about a second away from popping him in the mouth.

The ball should have either a. been thrown or b. secured.

Regardless of if Peters makes his block on the play, which he clearly missed, Losman still gets sacked.

That was the whole point I was making.

[Philagape]

Yeah, his arm sure looks cocked .....

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n270/Philagape/Bills/jetsgame2.jpg


If your definition of "cocked" is "ball anywhere above the waist."

[yordad]

Yeah, his arm sure looks cocked .....

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n270/Philagape/Bills/jetsgame2.jpg


If your definition of "cocked" is "ball anywhere above the waist."Was the video somehow harder to post? Try the video. If you cannot tell, he has been hit, and is trying to secure the ball in your pic.

And you know this.

[HHURRICANE]

Losman blew the play. Hell the coaches blamed Losman after the game so what is everyone arguing about?

[yordad]

He wasn't cocking his arm to throw the ball.

He had two other players right in his face who were about a second away from popping him in the mouth.

The ball should have either a. been thrown or b. secured.

Regardless of if Peters makes his block on the play, which he clearly missed, Losman still gets sacked.

That was the whole point I was making.OK, but if Peters makes that block, does Losman still get hit from behind, and does he still fumble?

[Mr. Pink]

OK, but if Peters makes that block, does Losman still get hit from behind, and does he still fumble?

Who knows?

That still doesn't excuse Losman for not securing the football or throwing it away.

[Philagape]

Was the video somehow harder to post? Try the video. If you cannot tell, he has been hit, and is trying to secure the ball in your pic.

And you know this.

If I could post the video, I would. Here's a split-second before the previous one, as he's about to be hit ....
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n270/Philagape/Bills/jetsgame1.jpg

That's as high as the ball gets, and still nowhere near "cocked."
What you see there is a running motion. Arms pump when running. Most people wouldn't have to be told that.
It's slam-dunk obvious that he never pulled back to throw.

Here's a link to the video, play starts at 2:58
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=29746&displayPage=tab_gamecenter&season=2008&week=REG15

[Philagape]

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n270/Philagape/Bills/jetsgame3a.jpghttp://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n270/Philagape/Bills/jetsgame3b.jpghttp://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n270/Philagape/Bills/jetsgame3.jpghttp://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n270/Philagape/Bills/jetsgame4.jpghttp://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n270/Philagape/Bills/jetsgame5.jpg

[psubills62]

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n270/Philagape/Bills/jetsgame3a.jpghttp://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n270/Philagape/Bills/jetsgame3b.jpghttp://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n270/Philagape/Bills/jetsgame3.jpghttp://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n270/Philagape/Bills/jetsgame4.jpghttp://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n270/Philagape/Bills/jetsgame5.jpg

Gotta say, it looks in the second picture like he's about to throw it, but then goes to tuck it in when he feels the guy right behind him.

[Philagape]

Gotta say, it looks in the second picture like he's about to throw it, but then goes to tuck it in when he feels the guy right behind him.

That's why all five are posted. It's definitely not tucked in the fifth one, so that's not what he was doing.
From No. 1 to No. 5 is the cycle of what an arm does while running.

[TacklingDummy]

33% Coaches Fault
33% Peters fault
33% Losman fault
1% Justa's fault

[yordad]

That's why all five are posted. It's definitely not tucked in the fifth one, so that's not what he was doing.
From No. 1 to No. 5 is the cycle of what an arm does while running.OK, looks like he is about to throw it in the second pick, but feels the pressure. If you had a 6th and 7th, maybe you could make out what was going to be a shuffle type pass to McIntyre. Actually, screw your photos. You provided a link. Watch the vid. If you can't tell he wants to shuffle that ball to McIntyre then I don't know what to tell you. I see it, you say you don't. Good enough for me, and it ain't anything new.

[Philagape]

So now it goes from actually doing it to "wants" to do it. Got it. That's all that matters!

[yordad]

Actually he had 4 full seconds...and if you wanna straight out blame Peters for whiffing...Bryan Thomas 99 and Shaun Ellis 92 were about a second away from smacking him in the mouth anyways.

Two guys I assume he clearly saw and he still was nowhere near a throwing motion.

As Dierdorf says in the video "Losman has to protect the football" LOL, about a second? A second away? You mean to tell me he would have had another second had Peters hit his guy? You realize how much can happen in one second out there?

I am trying to learn how to post pictures now, but Elam engaging JP at 2:04. The ball was snapped @ 2:06. Very significant (feel free to follow along), and only 2 seconds!!

Oh, and Ellis (you mentioned) is about 5 yards away! So, in other words, not even close! Oh, and the other guy, Bryan Thomas (who?), is about 7 feet away and has a bad angle.

Also, beyond those guys is day break, and he has McIntyre (who he clearly was about to throw to) out in front.


So now it goes from actually doing it to "wants" to do it. Got it. That's all that matters!"Wanted to", "was trying", "moved the ball in that direction", "assumed his all-pro LT would touch someone", "needed to have 6 seconds tick off the clock for the 2 minute warning to hit", ...........what ever you want to call it.

You somehow didn't notice the pass play was called 6 seconds shy of the 2 minute warning. 6 Seconds.

JP was hit in 2 seconds.

JP rolled out to his right. This should have gave him more time.

JP expected his all pro LT to block a gut for 1 second.

JP had to either make a completetion, or get 6 seconds to tick off the clock.

Out of desperation, JP tried getting the ball to McIntryre (who has like 1 career catch or something).

He was sacked. He did fumble. He does share the blame. Share.

So, one picture says all that.

[Philagape]

He does share the blame.

Breakthrough!!! :party: :party:

Sorry if I felt that protecting the ball was slightly more important than making sure 6 seconds tick off. Just slightly.

[yordad]

Breakthrough!!! :party: :party:

Sorry if I felt that protecting the ball was slightly more important than making sure 6 seconds tick off. Just slightly.OK, where did I say protecting the ball was unimportant? I completely think Peters should have protected the ball. And his QB.

This is a Jason Peters thread right? You are the one seemingly claiming he shares no blame.

So, I assume you are happy and :party: due to your own miraculous breakthrough. Oh wait, did you change your mind again?

[Philagape]

You are the one seemingly claiming he shares no blame.



As has been pointed out, several things went wrong on that play. Bad play call, bad blocking, bad QBing.
Post #34

[yordad]

Post #34Then y r u arguing a me? I have typed all this be4.

[Yasgur's Farm]

There's no reason why Jason Peters shouldn't carry the entire blame for Losman getting sacked... It was just 3 seconds no matter what anybody says.

However, Losman must be credited with the entire blame for the fumble, the resulting TD, and the loss.

This is where I finally gave up on him. That type of stuff happened way too often for it to be ignored. He has all the talent in the world... But he carries the bad luck gene. In that regard, Buffalo was perfect for him.

All that said... I refuse to be 1 of the bashers.

[Luisito23]

Am I the only one who thinks that this thread is pretty much worthless?

[yordad]

Am I the only one who thinks that this thread is pretty much worthless?Aren't all threads? lol. But yeah, it is about a guy who is gone and it went off on a tangent about a guy who is gone.

[Philagape]

Then y r u arguing a me? I have typed all this be4.

Sorry, I only saw the "cocked arm" nonsense

[TacklingDummy]

There's no reason why Jason Peters shouldn't carry the entire blame for Losman getting sacked... It was just 3 seconds no matter what anybody says.

However, Losman must be credited with the entire blame for the fumble, the resulting TD, and the loss.




That's why I blamed in this order...

33% Coaches fault
33% Peters Fault
33% Losmans fault
1% justa's fault

Without one, the other doesn't happen.

If the coaches don't call that play, the last 2 don't happen.

If Peters makes his block, Losman doesn't fumble, no one would remember the play.

If Losman throws or holds on to the ball, it wouldn't matter if Peters missed another block or what the play call was.

[yordad]

Sorry, I only saw the "cocked arm" nonsenseWould "half cocked" satisfy you? How about "Clearly about to pitch it"? No matter how it is worded, Peters still completely whiffed on a very important block, at a very important time.

:dancers:

What would have happened had Peters made his block?

[TacklingDummy]

What would have happened had Peters made his block?

I'm guessing he would have ran it out of bounds or threw it away.

[yordad]

I'm guessing he would have ran it out of bounds or threw it away.My guess is he would have passed it to McIntyre who would have dropped it, and the clock would have stopped at the 2 minute warning.

[Mitchell55]

Worst play of the season and the 2 players who were mainly involved in it are gone. :limpclap:

[yordad]

Worst play of the season and the 2 players who were mainly involved in it are gone. :limpclap:The coach that called it is still here. :penalty:

[Philagape]

Would "half cocked" satisfy you? How about "Clearly about to pitch it"? No matter how it is worded, Peters still completely whiffed on a very important block, at a very important time.

:dancers:

What would have happened had Peters made his block?

I never have disagreed about Peters. I said myself he whiffed. Horrible play. Indefensible.
My addition to the conversation is what should have happened even after the whiff? Because it's the answer to THAT question that's the difference between victory and defeat, which makes it the most relevant.
Peters' screw-up was not fatal. What happened after it was.
The whiff turned a relatively easy play (which is my answer to your question) into a play that required some awareness, fast thinking and good decision making to protect the ball. :ill:

[trapezeus]

i also seem to recall there was a real lazy play action called on the play, where Losman barely fakes to the running back. If he gives a halfway decent fake, it buys him the second to toss the ball.

i acknowledge that Peters totally whiffed on that play. but here is the thing about the 2008 bills. they were bad in multiple areas and people not doing their jobs from the coaching, to the QB to the line is precisely why the wheels came off during the season. the fact that all three happened at the same time is why we felt the donkey punch after that play.

[billsfanone]

Remember the infamous play against the Jets where Losman rolled out? On WGR yesterday they were talking about that play and Peters. I was only in the car for a moment. They mentioned that Peters didn't know the play and was supposed to have Losman's back on the play...that he missed the block because he didn't know what he was supposed to do.

Is that true? Do we have a link to that or is it credible?

Looking at the tape, it looks like he flat out wiffed. It looks like he knew what to do, but was beaten.

[justasportsfan]

33% Coaches Fault
33% Peters fault
33% Losman fault
1% Justa's fault
how do I only get 1% :mad:

[yordad]

Sorry, I only saw the "cocked arm" nonsense Oh, one more thing phil, I said he "was cocking", I didn't say "was cocked". But again, I'm sure you don't "see" the difference.

[Philagape]

Oh, one more thing phil, I said he "was cocking", I didn't say "was cocked". But again, I'm sure you don't "see" the difference.

Neither is true, so any other difference is irrelevant

[Goobylal]

JP was trying to get rid of the ball when Elam jumped on his back, but Elam made a great move to knock the ball from his hand. In the end, the Bills got a better draft position and the Jets still missed the playoffs.

[yordad]

Neither is true, so any other difference is irrelevantAs usual, I disagree with you.