Reasons why Vick will NOT be a Bill

[OpIv37]

1. He's a vet FA on the wrong side of 30 who will likely command a significant salary. This FO just doesn't deal with FA's like that. They made an exception for Owens. They're not going to do it twice in one off-season.

2. His age and salary and time off make him a significant risk. The Bills' FO tends to be risk-adverse.

3. The Bills have had a lot of off-the-field incidents this off-season, leading to bad publicity. It's extremely bad PR to sign a guy with well-publicized off-the-field issues, and our team is run by a marketing guy.

4. The Bills value smart players. On the rare occasions that they deviate from that philosophy, there are repercussions (Peters, Losman, Lynch).

I really don't care what Pro Football Talk or Peter King say- this ain't happening. It's off season and Vick's a hot topic. They're writing articles for the sake of writing articles.

Now, let's stop talking about this.

[ServoBillieves]

Thank you Op, I'm sick of seeing Vick's name around here.

You forgot #5 by the way, we already have a back up in Ryan Fitzpatrick.

[B-DON]

i dont think vick is going to get the money he thinks he's going to get. therefore i think he comes rather cheap. jmo

[B-DON]

Thank you Op, I'm sick of seeing Vick's name around here.

You forgot #5 by the way, we already have a back up in Ryan Fitzpatrick.

fitz couldnt back up my inturmural flag football team. the guy is that bad

[FlyingDutchman]

amen

[OpIv37]

i dont think vick is going to get the money he thinks he's going to get. therefore i think he comes rather cheap. jmo

Oh he's not going to get a huge contract, but he won't exactly be playing for league min. He'll probably only get a 1 or 2 year deal in the 2.5 million range. It's not a huge salary but anything about vet min is too much IMO.

[B-DON]

Oh he's not going to get a huge contract, but he won't exactly be playing for league min. He'll probably only get a 1 or 2 year deal in the 2.5 million range. It's not a huge salary but anything about vet min is too much IMO.


we have cap room galore. is the 1 or 2 million coming out of your pocket or something?

[OpIv37]

we have cap room galore. is the 1 or 2 million coming out of your pocket or something?

That's another thing.... we have cap room every season. We don't use it to sign FA's or extend our own guys. That's not going to change.

[B-DON]

That's another thing.... we have cap room every season. We don't use it to sign FA's or extend our own guys. That's not going to change.


ok i can agree with you on that point. i just dont see how he can be any worse than fitz. plus you dont just lose that amount of speed in 2 years. the possiblities with him on the field are endless. and if he sucks, just cut him and roll with the horrible fitz. i dont see how this could hurt us at all. honestly, who gives a flyin f what the media says or if peta shows up. all we have to do is win and it will all go away. the good thing is if we lose with these guys, the scrutiny will be so bad that ralph will have no choice but to face the critics

[Mr. Pink]

1 will never happen.

No team will give him a huge contract based on his time away from the game.

He'll get a short term contract, incentive heavy, to prove himself.

In fact if Vick or his agent takes any other kind of contract, they're pretty dumb.

[Typ0]

That's another thing.... we have cap room every season. We don't use it to sign FA's or extend our own guys. That's not going to change.


OBD has signed a lot of free agents and signed plenty of their own guys.

[acehole]

I cant believed we injected this guy into our lexicon.

1 and only reason he is m vick.

Dead dogs on his property for gods ****.


1. He's a vet FA on the wrong side of 30 who will likely command a significant salary. This FO just doesn't deal with FA's like that. They made an exception for Owens. They're not going to do it twice in one off-season.

2. His age and salary and time off make him a significant risk. The Bills' FO tends to be risk-adverse.

3. The Bills have had a lot of off-the-field incidents this off-season, leading to bad publicity. It's extremely bad PR to sign a guy with well-publicized off-the-field issues, and our team is run by a marketing guy.

4. The Bills value smart players. On the rare occasions that they deviate from that philosophy, there are repercussions (Peters, Losman, Lynch).

I really don't care what Pro Football Talk or Peter King say- this ain't happening. It's off season and Vick's a hot topic. They're writing articles for the sake of writing articles.

Now, let's stop talking about this.

[B-DON]

I cant believed we injected this guy into our lexicon.

1 and only reason he is m vick.

Dead dogs on his property for gods ****.

let me guess your a dog owner?

[OpIv37]

OBD has signed a lot of free agents and signed plenty of their own guys.

They've also let a lot of guys walk and passed on a lot of FA's even when they have a lot of cap space.

[Prov401]

1. He's a vet FA on the wrong side of 30 who will likely command a significant salary. This FO just doesn't deal with FA's like that. They made an exception for Owens. They're not going to do it twice in one off-season.

2. His age and salary and time off make him a significant risk. The Bills' FO tends to be risk-adverse.

3. The Bills have had a lot of off-the-field incidents this off-season, leading to bad publicity. It's extremely bad PR to sign a guy with well-publicized off-the-field issues, and our team is run by a marketing guy.

4. The Bills value smart players. On the rare occasions that they deviate from that philosophy, there are repercussions (Peters, Losman, Lynch).

I really don't care what Pro Football Talk or Peter King say- this ain't happening. It's off season and Vick's a hot topic. They're writing articles for the sake of writing articles.

Now, let's stop talking about this.

The only thing I'll argue is the age deal. Wrong side of 30? He's only 28. Vick is one of the greatest athletes in NFL history, but as for his position, one of the most in-accurate, and indicisive QB in NFL history. Vick will get a shot, but not with the Bills.

[sdbillsfan2]

fitz couldnt back up my inturmural flag football team. the guy is that bad

If we get to the point Fitz has to go in ,,we're screwed . With Trent's
history of injury , this has me more then a little nervous ! Do I think Vick is the answer ? H*ll no !

[sdbillsfan2]

The only thing I'll argue is the age deal. Wrong side of 30? He's only 28. Vick is one of the greatest athletes in NFL history, but as for his position, one of the most in-accurate, and indicisive QB in NFL history. Vick will get a shot, but not with the Bills.


Oh Canadaaaaaa...............

[Mudflap1]

Look, I'm not sold on Trent Edwards. However, I just don't think Vick makes sense. The guy has been out of the game for quite a while. It's hard to come back when you are sitting in a cell someplace. Also, he doesn't fit what the Bills are trying to do. No-huddle, 3-wide offense? Great, let's bring in a guy whose big weakness is he's a crappy passer. Good times! And don't give me the Wildcat... that offense is a gimmick that isn't going to last. Also, the Bills sucked at running last year with Lynch and Jackson in the backfield. Both are good runners.

T.O. was one thing. But T.O. delivers at his position. He puts up great WR numbers. Vick has not. Geez, the guy goes to jail and everybody forgets he was a mediocre QB at best.

[ServoBillieves]

Michael Vick is a bad guy. He tortured dogs, I own 3, have previously had 6, I love dogs. He served his sentence, he's a stellar athlete, but he will never be in the red white and blue unless it's the red white and silver of the patriots (They consider it red white and blue). I'll never forget being in the stadium when he wouldn't buckle his chin strap and Crow knocked his helm off on an incomplete pass. 15 yard automatic first down.


Hate Vick, but he's served his time. If he works in a humane society (my charity has raised $40,000 for humane societies) then by god, he's served his time, but if he doesn't, and he just goes for the money that's laid before him, then he can burn in hell.

All I have to say.

[TheMan08]

I don't give a **** about dogs.

Bring him in.

[ServoBillieves]

I don't give a **** about dogs.

Bring him in.

To do what?

[feldspar]

1. He's a vet FA on the wrong side of 30 who will likely command a significant salary.

Over 30 is the right side of 30?

Vick is 28 today. He'll be 29 next month.

...not that I want him.

[acehole]

let me guess your a dog owner?

Reguardless....This isnt whoops type crime here.

Real POS. If you let this guy back you have no standards....and you get what you deserve as a team. The guy wasnt even that great.

[OpIv37]

The only thing I'll argue is the age deal. Wrong side of 30? He's only 28. Vick is one of the greatest athletes in NFL history, but as for his position, one of the most in-accurate, and indicisive QB in NFL history. Vick will get a shot, but not with the Bills.

I read something yesterday that said he was 31. I can't remember where I read it though- the source could have been wrong.

[OpIv37]

I don't give a **** about dogs.

Bring him in.

It's not about dogs. It's about his lack of accuracy and slow mental progress. Unless you want to pay a guy $2 or $3 million a season to come off the bench and run 10 wildcat plays a game.

[TacklingDummy]

It's not about dogs. It's about his lack of accuracy and slow mental progress. Unless you want to pay a guy $2 or $3 million a season to come off the bench and run 10 wildcat plays a game.

how much did they pay Johnson or Losman?

[OpIv37]

how much did they pay Johnson or Losman?

well they were meant to be starters so it's not really a good comparison- they ended up on the bench because our FO sucks at finding talent and our coaches suck at developing it.

This FO is too committed to Trent- if they did sign Vick, it would be as a back up.

[TacklingDummy]

This FO is too committed to Trent- if they did sign Vick, it would be as a back up.

That would depend on how Trent plays and if he can stay healthy.Realistically I have no faith in either one. Let's hope Fitz works out. he should see action in about 5 games this year.

[Mahdi]

Reasons why Vick COULD/SHOULD be a Bill:

1) Talent: Ralph said this team didn't have enough talent. He brought in Owens and Vick would definitely add talent to our roster no matter how we use him.

2) WIN NOW!: That is the message Ralph is sending to the FO. Vick can be a wildcard player that can help win games in different ways.

3) Trent cant throw in bad weather: Once the weather goes bad we rely on our run game as seen in the Cleveland, Pats, Eagles games etc. With Vick behind center defenses will not be able to key on our RBs for fear of a backside run by Vick. This will make our ground game unstoppable.

4) REDZONE: We have been a HORRIBLE redzone team. When we get in close it would be a huge advantage for us to have defenses worried about Vick taking off, which would leave things open for Evans, Owens, Lynch, Jackson, Reed.

5) Shawn Nelson: A big receiving TE like Nelson can be a huge weapon for Vick who had an amazing partnership with Crumpler in ATL.

For the record I am not suggesting Vick be the starter. I am talking about using him 2 or 3 series a game. The game planning factor alone is worth having him. DC will not only have to plan for our regular offense with Evans and Owens but also a rushing attack with the likes of Vick, Lynch, Jackson and Rhodes. DC dont even have enough time in a week to prepare for all the possibilities we can throw at them. Heck, even if Vick doesn't touch the field he would have had an impact in the way other teams prepare for us.

[OpIv37]

Reasons why Vick COULD/SHOULD be a Bill:

1) Talent: Ralph said this team didn't have enough talent. He brought in Owens and Vick would definitely add talent to our roster no matter how we use him.

2) WIN NOW!: That is the message Ralph is sending to the FO. Vick can be a wildcard player that can help win games in different ways.

3) Trent cant throw in bad weather: Once the weather goes bad we rely on our run game as seen in the Cleveland, Pats, Eagles games etc. With Vick behind center defenses will not be able to key on our RBs for fear of a backside run by Vick. This will make our ground game unstoppable.

4) REDZONE: We have been a HORRIBLE redzone team. When we get in close it would be a huge advantage for us to have defenses worried about Vick taking off, which would leave things open for Evans, Owens, Lynch, Jackson, Reed.

5) Shawn Nelson: A big receiving TE like Nelson can be a huge weapon for Vick who had an amazing partnership with Crumpler in ATL.

For the record I am not suggesting Vick be the starter. I am talking about using him 2 or 3 series a game. The game planning factor alone is worth having him. DC will not only have to plan for our regular offense with Evans and Owens but also a rushing attack with the likes of Vick, Lynch, Jackson and Rhodes. DC dont even have enough time in a week to prepare for all the possibilities we can throw at them. Heck, even if Vick doesn't touch the field he would have had an impact in the way other teams prepare for us.

1. Vick would add ATHLETICISM to the roster. Athleticism is different from talent. Vick has little if any football talent.

2. How is a mobile but inaccurate QB going to add wins? We tried that- remember? It didn't work.

3. Our ground game is as good as the OL. We have 3 good backs. We don't need a gimmick QB to get the ground game going. We just need good OL play. And where's your proof that Vick can throw in bad weather? He's inaccurate even in domes and good weather.

4. We have Owens, Evans, Lynch, Jackson, Reed and Hardy. How many red zone threats do we need?

5. Nelson can be a weapon for Trent too, or any other QB. This one has nothing to do with Vick whatsoever.

QB by committee doesn't work. Frequently changing QB's screws up timing with the WR's and the C. That's why no NFL team does it.

[Mahdi]

1. Vick would add ATHLETICISM to the roster. Athleticism is different from talent. Vick has little if any football talent.

2. How is a mobile but inaccurate QB going to add wins? We tried that- remember? It didn't work.

3. Our ground game is as good as the OL. We have 3 good backs. We don't need a gimmick QB to get the ground game going. We just need good OL play. And where's your proof that Vick can throw in bad weather? He's inaccurate even in domes and good weather.

4. We have Owens, Evans, Lynch, Jackson, Reed and Hardy. How many red zone threats do we need?

5. Nelson can be a weapon for Trent too, or any other QB. This one has nothing to do with Vick whatsoever.

QB by committee doesn't work. Frequently changing QB's screws up timing with the WR's and the C. That's why no NFL team does it.
1) Vick has talent. Dont be crazy. He made NFL defenses look foolish for years. That is talent. Troy Williamson has athleticism.

2) When you talk about Vick, please dont mention Losman with him. Vick is not just mobile, calling Vick mobile is like calling Peyton Manning efficient.

3) No we dont NEED a gimmick QB but the possibilities are dangerous. What does a front 7 do when Vick takes the snap and Lynch begins to motion right for the hand-off? Do they flow with Lynch or stay at home and hold the backside for fear of Vick? That ONE play was the reason the Falcons rushed for almost 3000 yards for a couple of years. And that was with Warrick Dunn. Imagine with Lynch and Jackson and Rhodes.

4) I realize we have redzone receiving threats but having a guy like Vick that can take off and score any second will leave those receiving threats with very loose coverage. The best receiver Vick ever played with was Crumpler.

5) I realize Nelson can be a weapon with Trent also, just pointing out that Vick knows how to use athletic TEs to his advantage.

AGAIN... not QB by committee. Its just a VICK-PACKAGE. Dont tell me that is not a useful thing to have in your back pocket.

[ddaryl]

I don't give a **** about dogs.

Bring him in.


I'm guessing not to many people give a crap about you either

those dogs deserved no such fate... especially at the hands of a man who was already wealthy beyond concept of the majority of humans living on this planet.

the fact you decalre you don't give a crap pretty much says all anyone will ever have to know about you as a human being

[The Juice Is Loose]

1. He's a vet FA on the wrong side of 30 who will likely command a significant salary. This FO just doesn't deal with FA's like that. They made an exception for Owens. They're not going to do it twice in one off-season.

2. His age and salary and time off make him a significant risk. The Bills' FO tends to be risk-adverse.

3. The Bills have had a lot of off-the-field incidents this off-season, leading to bad publicity. It's extremely bad PR to sign a guy with well-publicized off-the-field issues, and our team is run by a marketing guy.

4. The Bills value smart players. On the rare occasions that they deviate from that philosophy, there are repercussions (Peters, Losman, Lynch).

I really don't care what Pro Football Talk or Peter King say- this ain't happening. It's off season and Vick's a hot topic. They're writing articles for the sake of writing articles.

Now, let's stop talking about this.

OP! I AGREE WITH YOU! HOLY SMOKES!

[mayotm]

let me guess your a dog owner?You don't have to be a dog owner (I'm not) to understand that what Vick did was horrendous. You just have to be a decent human being.

[elltrain22]

1. He's a vet FA on the wrong side of 30 who will likely command a significant salary. This FO just doesn't deal with FA's like that. They made an exception for Owens. They're not going to do it twice in one off-season.

2. His age and salary and time off make him a significant risk. The Bills' FO tends to be risk-adverse.

3. The Bills have had a lot of off-the-field incidents this off-season, leading to bad publicity. It's extremely bad PR to sign a guy with well-publicized off-the-field issues, and our team is run by a marketing guy.

4. The Bills value smart players. On the rare occasions that they deviate from that philosophy, there are repercussions (Peters, Losman, Lynch).

I really don't care what Pro Football Talk or Peter King say- this ain't happening. It's off season and Vick's a hot topic. They're writing articles for the sake of writing articles.

Now, let's stop talking about this.

hell yeah OP!! You forgot a couple of reasons...

5. b/c he sucks

6. b/c Trent is our qb of the future, and is gonna be a good qb for this team

7. b/c he's an ***hole

[zone]

You don't have to be a dog owner (I'm not) to understand that what Vick did was horrendous. You just have to be a decent human being.
Exactly, it's not like the guy bet on a dog fight and attended.

He himself with his own hands killed at least, at least 7 dogs, by picking them up tying a rope around it's neck and hanging it or holding it under water until it drown.

You think you need to be a dog owner not to stomach that, are you kidding me?

You don't even have to be a decent human being, you just need to be human to know that someone that is able to physically do that is not mentally right.

And for all the people who say that they don't care or it's no big deal, not one of you would be able to watch that type of act in person and if you can you are just a empty as him.

[OpIv37]

Exactly, it's not like the guy bet on a dog fight and attended.

He himself with his own hands killed at least, at least 7 dogs, by picking them up tying a rope around it's neck and hanging it or holding it under water until it drown.

You think you need to be a dog owner not to stomach that, are you kidding me?

You don't even have to be a decent human being, you just need to be human to know that someone that is able to physically do that is not mentally right.

And for all the people who say that they don't care or it's no big deal, not one of you would be able to watch that type of act in person and if you can you are just a empty as him.

he actually did those things himself? I didn't realize that.

Killing dogs is wrong, period, but if you're gonna do it, at least have the decency to put a bullet in it's brain and end it quickly. Don't make them suffer like that.

[User Manuel]

He is 29. I didn't know that was the wrong side of 30.

[OpIv37]

He is 29. I didn't know that was the wrong side of 30.

I think I read some bad information on that one.

[Mr. Pink]

Randall Cunningham, best comparison QB I can think of in regards to Vick on the field, turned out alright didn't he?

The time away certainly hurts Vick but if he still has the athleticism and can make plays, who cares?

The dude was flat out a winner in Atlanta.

[OpIv37]

Randall Cunningham, best comparison QB I can think of in regards to Vick on the field, turned out alright didn't he?

The time away certainly hurts Vick but if he still has the athleticism and can make makes, who cares?

The dude was flat out a winner in Atlanta.

Cunningham is MUCH smarter than Vick and much better at playing the QB position.

[Mr. Pink]

Cunningham is MUCH smarter than Vick and much better at playing the QB position.


Cunningham and Vick were the exact same type of QB early in their careers.

Run first, pass second.

Big arm, not very accurate.

This doesn't mean Vick's career will ever turn the corner like Cunningham's could but it also suggests that it could turn that corner at some point.

Like I said, a two year layoff really hurts in that progress though.

[Typ0]

They've also let a lot of guys walk and passed on a lot of FA's even when they have a lot of cap space.

so has every other team and/or business in the world. what's your point? you don't have one and if you do you don't have anything to support it. The people at OBD have been trying to win and they have been spending resources to do it. They just haven't been doing it well enough and have been getting burned by bad draft picks from the Donahoe era.

[OpIv37]

Cunningham and Vick were the exact same type of QB early in their careers.

Run first, pass second.

Big arm, not very accurate.

This doesn't mean Vick's career will ever turn the corner like Cunningham's could but it also suggests that it could turn that corner at some point.

Like I said, a two year layoff really hurts in that progress though.

also he had 5 years before the layoff I believe, so it's not like he's only had 1 or 2 years. Many athletic QB's come into the NFL with that run-first mentality. Usually, if they don't settle down in the first year or two, they never do.

[OpIv37]

so has every other team and/or business in the world. what's your point? you don't have one and if you do you don't have anything to support it. The people at OBD have been trying to win and they have been spending resources to do it. They just haven't been doing it well enough and have been getting burned by bad draft picks from the Donahoe era.

when there are extra resources available and extra commodities available on which to spend those resources, it's really hard to make that argument that they're really trying to win. They're trying to win within their self-imposed "cash to cap" constraints.

And we've had 4 drafts since the Donahoe era. Not many players are left, and most of those that are left have been re-signed by this current FO.

And we're really not all that different than the Donahoe era. Modrak, Guy, Brandon- they were all part of the Donahoe regimes. So let's stop using that as an excuse.

[Typ0]

It's not about dogs. It's about his lack of accuracy and slow mental progress. Unless you want to pay a guy $2 or $3 million a season to come off the bench and run 10 wildcat plays a game.


really? Let's think about this for a second. What if it was only 6 or 7 wildcats a game...but then he lined up three times as a WR per game and twice as a RB. Then, we also were able to cut loose some of the CB depth because he could serve there in a pinch...and we also could drop the third QB because he would be that guy. That's two roster spots. We could have a kick off specialist!

OK, then, let's say he can do these things and make a difference in the games. If you don't spend that money if he want's to come here and work hard you are nuts. Don't just assume he's going to be a/the QB. The reason he was QB in atlanta is because he's an amazing athlete and even though he wasn't a great QB he WON from that position because of his athletic skills. In our position, if we have a chance to put him on the field and don't we are crazy.

[Mr. Pink]

also he had 5 years before the layoff I believe, so it's not like he's only had 1 or 2 years. Many athletic QB's come into the NFL with that run-first mentality. Usually, if they don't settle down in the first year or two, they never do.


Not completely true...

Cunningham ran for a career high 942 yards in his 6th year in the NFL.

Sure his passing numbers were better than Vick's already at that point but compare the receivers.

Peerless Price to Fred Barnett
Keith Jackson to Alge Crumpler
Brian Finneran to Cris Carter
Michael Jenkins to Calvin Williams.

Not too mention the fact that leading receiver over the beginning of Cunningham's career was Keith Byars.

[OpIv37]

really? Let's think about this for a second. What if it was only 6 or 7 wildcats a game...but then he lined up three times as a WR per game and twice as a RB. Then, we also were able to cut loose some of the CB depth because he could serve there in a pinch...and we also could drop the third QB because he would be that guy. That's two roster spots. We could have a kick off specialist!

OK, then, let's say he can do these things and make a difference in the games. If you don't spend that money if he want's to come here and work hard you are nuts. Don't just assume he's going to be a/the QB. The reason he was QB in atlanta is because he's an amazing athlete and even though he wasn't a great QB he WON from that position because of his athletic skills. In our position, if we have a chance to put him on the field and don't we are crazy.

so now Vick can suddenly play CB, RB and WR? Give me a ****ing break. He probably could if he had been practicing and receiving coaching in those positions, but he hasn't.

This guy is an athlete- NOT a football player and certainly not a QB.

Winning because of his athletic skill also means winning IN SPITE OF his lack of QB skill. You people are way too quick to forget that. You get enamored by his highlight reel and forget about his inability to make reads, inaccuracy and propensity for turnovers.

[Mahdi]

so now Vick can suddenly play CB, RB and WR? Give me a ****ing break. He probably could if he had been practicing and receiving coaching in those positions, but he hasn't.

This guy is an athlete- NOT a football player and certainly not a QB.

Winning because of his athletic skill also means winning IN SPITE OF his lack of QB skill. You people are way too quick to forget that. You get enamored by his highlight reel and forget about his inability to make reads, inaccuracy and propensity for turnovers.
This post makes ZERO sense...

so yer telling me that Vick played the QB position, took a bad team and made them winners, went to a pro-bowl, but he isn't a QB... wow.

I think yer exaggerating his lack of QB skills just a little too much. He isn't Peyton Manning but the guy has a gun and I clearly remember him and Brian Finneran destroying Buffalo's stellar defense a couple years ago.

Dont give me this he isn't a QB talk.... he is a QB.... just a different style of QB... and a very dangerous one as well.

[OpIv37]

This post makes ZERO sense...

so yer telling me that Vick played the QB position, took a bad team and made them winners, went to a pro-bowl, but he isn't a QB... wow.

I think yer exaggerating his lack of QB skills just a little too much. He isn't Peyton Manning but the guy has a gun and I clearly remember him and Brian Finneran destroying Buffalo's stellar defense a couple years ago.

Dont give me this he isn't a QB talk.... he is a QB.... just a different style of QB... and a very dangerous one as well.

The last time we played the Falcons was in 05. Everyone thought that D would be stellar after 03 and 04, but go back and check the stats. The D was far from stellar that year.

He has a gun? So what? So did Losman. So did Bledsoe. Where did that get us?

The Pro Bowl is nothing but a popularity contest. Why is it that when Peters makes the Pro Bowl, he doesn't deserve it, but suddenly it's an honor for other players?

He's as dangerous for the team he's playing for as he is for the opponent.

[Typ0]

so now Vick can suddenly play CB, RB and WR? Give me a ****ing break. He probably could if he had been practicing and receiving coaching in those positions, but he hasn't.

This guy is an athlete- NOT a football player and certainly not a QB.

Winning because of his athletic skill also means winning IN SPITE OF his lack of QB skill. You people are way too quick to forget that. You get enamored by his highlight reel and forget about his inability to make reads, inaccuracy and propensity for turnovers.


No, you miss the point. Would you rather have him as a back-up qb, a guy who has proven he can WIN, or a useless slug? Just that alone should answer the question about putting him on the roster. I'm not wanting to displace TE for MV at all. I want to displace our second or third string QB for him. Preferrably because he can do a lot of other things on the field. You might not like his decision making but he can handle the ball.

[Mahdi]

The other thing we need to consider here is that our division is LOADING up on versatile WILDCAT players...

Dolphins have Pat White (QB, RB, WR)

Pats drafted Julian Edelman to be their WILDCAT QB http://www.nfl.com/draft/2009/tracker#dt-by-round-input:1/dt-tabs:dt-by-team/dt-by-team-input:ne

Jets have Brad Smith (QB, WR, RB) for their WILDCAT.

Bills have NO ONE. Getting Vick will help us prepare for other teams and will give us our own version....

When the weather is bad in our division games who will have the advantage? The teams in our division with running QBs or Trent Edwards?

[Mahdi]

The last time we played the Falcons was in 05. Everyone thought that D would be stellar after 03 and 04, but go back and check the stats. The D was far from stellar that year.

He has a gun? So what? So did Losman. So did Bledsoe. Where did that get us?

The Pro Bowl is nothing but a popularity contest. Why is it that when Peters makes the Pro Bowl, he doesn't deserve it, but suddenly it's an honor for other players?

He's as dangerous for the team he's playing for as he is for the opponent.
Yeah Losman and Bledsoe ... yer right.... they compare perfectly to Vick... you win.

[Mr. Pink]

Losman would be Vick if he could feel the backside pressure get out of the way of it and make a play with either his legs or arm.

That's what Vick brings to the table.

He's at his best when he's improvising when the play seemingly breaks down and no contrary to public opinion it's not always with his legs.

[Jan Reimers]

Vick could be our punter, place kicker and long snapper, too. He's so fast, he could snap the ball and then run back to catch it and kick it.

He'd be like the old Negro League player Cool Papa Bell, who was so fast that he could turn off the light in his bedroom and be in bed before the room got dark.

Please excuse me. I'm just sick of hearing about how great Michael Vick is.

[Mr. Pink]

Vick could be our punter, place kicker and long snapper, too. He's so fast, he could snap the ball and then run back to catch it and kick it.

He'd be like the old Negro League player Cool Papa Bell, who was so fast that he could turn off the light in his bedroom and be in bed before the room got dark.

Please excuse me. I'm just sick of hearing about how great Michael Vick is.


He was a great player.

Human definitely not.

Would he help this team or almost any other team in the league win games?

Without a doubt.

[Mahdi]

Vick could be our punter, place kicker and long snapper, too. He's so fast, he could snap the ball and then run back to catch it and kick it.

He'd be like the old Negro League player Cool Papa Bell, who was so fast that he could turn off the light in his bedroom and be in bed before the room got dark.

Please excuse me. I'm just sick of hearing about how great Michael Vick is.
He's amazing though.

[OpIv37]

No, you miss the point. Would you rather have him as a back-up qb, a guy who has proven he can WIN, or a useless slug? Just that alone should answer the question about putting him on the roster. I'm not wanting to displace TE for MV at all. I want to displace our second or third string QB for him. Preferrably because he can do a lot of other things on the field. You might not like his decision making but he can handle the ball.

38-28-1 with only one playoff win? That's better than what the Bills have done lately but hardly makes him a proven winner. And what's the point of getting him to leave him on the bench? I could see his usefulness in a wildcat situation but that's a rarely used play. At this point, I just don't see the risk and the distraction being worth it for the relatively rare situations where he would contribute.

[OpIv37]

Yeah Losman and Bledsoe ... yer right.... they compare perfectly to Vick... you win.

The only similarities to Bledsoe are the big arm and the lack of accuracy. My point there is simply that having a gun does not make a QB good, as you said in the post.

Losman is actually a pretty good comparison. They're both fast and athletic with big arms, but lack accuracy and lack the ability to make reads and quick decisions. Vick is like Losman on steroids- unlike Losman, he gets away with it on sheer athletic ability.

[Mahdi]

The only similarities to Bledsoe are the big arm and the lack of accuracy. My point there is simply that having a gun does not make a QB good, as you said in the post.

Losman is actually a pretty good comparison. They're both fast and athletic with big arms, but lack accuracy and lack the ability to make reads and quick decisions. Vick is like Losman on steroids- unlike Losman, he gets away with it on sheer athletic ability.
Vick is a completely different breed of athlete than Losman. Losman is a mobile QB who CAN run.

Vick is a QB that WILL run even if you know its coming. He literally has Barry Sanders type instincts when he has the ball in his hands and his QBing skills are still better than Losman's.... its not even close.

[Mahdi]

38-28-1 with only one playoff win? That's better than what the Bills have done lately but hardly makes him a proven winner. And what's the point of getting him to leave him on the bench? I could see his usefulness in a wildcat situation but that's a rarely used play. At this point, I just don't see the risk and the distraction being worth it for the relatively rare situations where he would contribute.
38-21-1 makes him a proven winner.

[OpIv37]

Vick is a completely different breed of athlete than Losman. Losman is a mobile QB who CAN run.

Vick is a QB that WILL run even if you know its coming. He literally has Barry Sanders type instincts when he has the ball in his hands and his QBing skills are still better than Losman's.... its not even close.

Vick is a much better athlete than Losman- this is very true.

But when it comes to being QB's they're almost identical. Vick just gets more out of it because of his athleticism.

And comparing Vick to Barry Sanders is just ridiculous.

[Mr. Pink]

Vick is a much better athlete than Losman- this is very true.

But when it comes to being QB's they're almost identical. Vick just gets more out of it because of his athleticism.

And comparing Vick to Barry Sanders is just ridiculous.


Not completely. Vick has elite running back instincts. His main fault is at times he held the ball like a loaf of bread thinking he could get away/around anyone.

That isn't to say I think Vick as a strict running back would be great, but in the open field he's as elusive as any back I've seen play.

[Mahdi]

Vick is a much better athlete than Losman- this is very true.

But when it comes to being QB's they're almost identical. Vick just gets more out of it because of his athleticism.

And comparing Vick to Barry Sanders is just ridiculous.
Comparing Vick to Sanders is not ridiculous at all. They are both almost impossible to tackle in the open-field. Their instincts and agility are more than any other players to ever play and Vick has the insane speed to boot.

Vick and Sanders are very comparable and very rare football players. Not many players have come through the league and been so elusive.

[Ingtar33]

Michael Vick has...

Trente Dilfer's Arm
Barry Sander's Legs
Rob Johnson's Head
in
Drew Brees's Body

as a result he's a short QB with no touch, who gets sacked too much because he doesn't want to throw it away and thinks he can outrun the pressure

[Lexwhat]

Michael Vick has...

Trente Dilfer's Arm

???

[Mahdi]

Michael Vick has...

Trente Dilfer's Arm
Barry Sander's Legs
Rob Johnson's Head
in
Drew Brees's Body

as a result he's a short QB with no touch, who gets sacked too much because he doesn't want to throw it away and thinks he can outrun the pressure
Vick has....

McNabb's Arm

Culpepper's Accuracy

Cunningham's head

Barry Sanders' Legs

As a result you have a strong armed QB who can launch the ball anywhere on the field while on the run while evading tacklers and running like Barry. He can easily turn the ball over but he can also create something out of nothing score at any moment.

Maybe a bit of maturation will make him better at securing the football.

[OpIv37]

Vick has....

McNabb's Arm

Culpepper's Accuracy

Cunningham's head

Barry Sanders' Legs

As a result you have a strong armed QB who can launch the ball anywhere on the field while on the run while evading tacklers and running like Barry. He can easily turn the ball over but he can also create something out of nothing score at any moment.

Maybe a bit of maturation will make him better at securing the football.

Vick has Losman's head, not Cunningham's. And he played six years without any maturation- two years off certainly won't help him mature.

[Jan Reimers]

Our strongest units are at WR and RB. We need a QB who can get the ball to Lee, TO et. al., and who can utilize our 2 (or possibly 3) headed running attack.

I still don't see why, after building close to the best receiving and running back corps in the NFL, we would bring in a running QB with an inaccurate arm, who is not good at reading defenses.

[OpIv37]

Our strongest units are at WR and RB. We need a QB who can get the ball to Lee, TO wt. al., and who can utilize our 2 (or possibly 3) headed running attack.

I still don't see why, after building close to the best receiving and running back corps in the NFL, we would bring in a running QB with an inaccurate arm, who is not good at reading defenses.

Because he can play QB, WR, RB, CB and in a pinch, can back up at LT. It'll open four roster spots. Duh- try to keep up.

[Mahdi]

Our strongest units are at WR and RB. We need a QB who can get the ball to Lee, TO wt. al., and who can utilize our 2 (or possibly 3) headed running attack.

I still don't see why, after building close to the best receiving and running back corps in the NFL, we would bring in a running QB with an inaccurate arm, who is not good at reading defenses.
Different dimension to our offense....

Seriously how many more ways is there to explain this...

YES we have a good WR corps

YES we have a good RB committee

YES we have Edwards

BUTTT .... having Vick gives us a different way of attacking a defense.

Last time I checked the Pats had Brady, Moss, Welker and Watson. Yet they still went ahead and drafted a WILDCAT QB. Why would they do that?

To add another dimension to their offense....

Dolphins have Pennington --- Pat White = another dimension

Jets have Brad Smith = Another dimension

[Jan Reimers]

Different dimension to our offense....

Seriously how many more ways is there to explain this...

YES we have a good WR corps

YES we have a good RB committee

YES we have Edwards

BUTTT .... having Vick gives us a different way of attacking a defense.

Last time I checked the Pats had Brady, Moss, Welker and Watson. Yet they still went ahead and drafted a WILDCAT QB. Why would they do that?

To add another dimension to their offense....
Dolphins have Pennington --- Pat White = another dimension

Jets have Brad Smith = Another dimension
We have enough weapons. What we need is a QB who can bring the offense together into a cohesive unit. Vick is anything but that guy.

[Mahdi]

We have enough weapons. What we need is a QB who can bring the offense together into a cohesive unit. Vick is anything but that guy.
Im not sure where yer missing my point....

Im not suggesting that Vick start for us... why do you insist on telling me that Vick is not the guy to bring the offense together... of course he isn't ... Trent is that guy, as Brady is that guy, as Pennington is that guy as Sanchez is that guy.

I am saying that Vick brings something else to the table that we DO NOT HAVE. Every other team in our division has that player except for us. I am suggesting that we should match that with a similar player of our own.

The Pats certainly have enough weapons yet they still went and got that QB that offers them an option that they DONT HAVE either.

That's as clear as I can make it.... If you dont want Vick on our team because of who he is then fine... thats your opinion... but arguing my point that he adds another dimension to our offense makes no sense at all.

[Typ0]

Im not sure where yer missing my point....

Im not suggesting that Vick start for us... why do you insist on telling me that Vick is not the guy to bring the offense together... of course he isn't ... Trent is that guy, as Brady is that guy, as Pennington is that guy as Sanchez is that guy.

I am saying that Vick brings something else to the table that we DO NOT HAVE. Every other team in our division has that player except for us. I am suggesting that we should match that with a similar player of our own.

The Pats certainly have enough weapons yet they still went and got that QB that offers them an option that they DONT HAVE either.

That's as clear as I can make it.... If you dont want Vick on our team because of who he is then fine... thats your opinion... but arguing my point that he adds another dimension to our offense makes no sense at all.

Exactly. Why do people insist that a move to get MV would be a move to dispose of TE? Apparently they would rather have a third string QB that is a walk on instead of a proven veteran winner.

[justasportsfan]

1. He's a vet FA on the wrong side of 30 who will likely command a significant salary. This FO just doesn't deal with FA's like that. They made an exception for Owens. They're not going to do it twice in one off-season.

2. His age and salary and time off make him a significant risk. The Bills' FO tends to be risk-adverse.

3. The Bills have had a lot of off-the-field incidents this off-season, leading to bad publicity. It's extremely bad PR to sign a guy with well-publicized off-the-field issues, and our team is run by a marketing guy.

4. The Bills value smart players. On the rare occasions that they deviate from that philosophy, there are repercussions (Peters, Losman, Lynch).

I really don't care what Pro Football Talk or Peter King say- this ain't happening. It's off season and Vick's a hot topic. They're writing articles for the sake of writing articles.

Now, let's stop talking about this.

5. he played center in jail and we already hired Hangartner